A Forgotten Accessory? ~ DR Leica VIOOH Finder

[LeicaTom]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/koolgirliestuff/VIOOHFORNET.jpg?t=1244657033

Here`s a neat little item I picked up over the evilbay a few days ago for a BIN.

It`s a version of the VIOOH Universal Finder that`s most surely been forgotten by most people, and I`m sure never mentioned here at RFF.

A "Dual Range" VIOOH with distance scales in Feet and Meters !
(note red and black numbers on finder base)
Meters in Red and Feet in Black paint, I`ve only seen this finder for sale anywhere in over 5 years, so I`m sure it`s pretty rare, and from the serial number #260xx it`s an early numbered one with the new 85mm markings.
I figure this was produced (ca. 1949 - 51).

Just WHY? did they stop making them this way with the DR we`ll never know?, but they sure would have been helpful for everyone who`s using mixed lenses. :D

Enjoy!

Tom

[Harry Lime]

Never seen one of those with meter and feet markings...

[Mr_Flibble]

My Lyre-shaped VIOOH has both ranges as you say. Deteriorated optics in mine though and a small crack in the corner of one of the prisms :(

[LeicaTom]

My Lyre-shaped VIOOH has both ranges as you say. Deteriorated optics in mine though and a small crack in the corner of one of the prisms :(

All that`s fixable, if you decide you don`t want to hold on to it, give me a holler!
(I`m looking for a better base for mine, the optics are almost like new)

Tom

[bean_counter]

I have a meters only version that has optics that are pretty cloudy; anybody know if it's user friendly to open up and clean?

[LeicaTom]

I have a meters only version that has optics that are pretty cloudy; anybody know if it's user friendly to open up and clean?

Send it to DAG, Don does great work on these!

Tom

[John Shriver]

Yes, the VIOOH is easy to open and clean. The prisms aren't aluminized, you just need to get them clean. Remove the four obvious screws on the rear, and then the two that hold in the prism assembly.

[LeicaTom]

Has anyone else ever seen this DR VIOOH before?
(if so send me the serial numbers if you have them)

to:

winkermeister@aol.com

Thanks

Tom

[Mr_Flibble]

They didn't bother to add serial numbers to the Lyre-shaped bodies as far as I know.

I've opened mine up before, but did not attempt to separate the prisms to clean them. Will do so tonight, right between souping some 127 film and cleaning up my "new" Rolleicord 1a.

[LeicaTom]

They didn't bother to add serial numbers to the Lyre-shaped bodies as far as I know.

I've opened mine up before, but did not attempt to separate the prisms to clean them. Will do so tonight, right between souping some 127 film and cleaning up my "new" Rolleicord 1a.

Shoot a couple of Photos of it, if it`s different from this one......

Thanks

Tom

[John Shriver]

Rick, you just remove the bracket the prisms are on, and clean all the glass surfaces you can reach. Don't try and remove them from the bracket, you will never get them right again.

If the lenses in the front are clean, there's a more complex series of retaining rings and set-screws to deal with. But hazy prisms are the more likely fault.

[Luddite Frank]

Rick, you just remove the bracket the prisms are on, and clean all the glass surfaces you can reach. Don't try and remove them from the bracket, you will never get them right again.

If the lenses in the front are clean, there's a more complex series of retaining rings and set-screws to deal with. But hazy prisms are the more likely fault.


I went to try cleaning mine, and muddled with the set-screw on the selector ring... it did not help me get the VIOOH apart, and I could not get the set-screw to thread-in again :bang: , so I put a piece of scotch tape over the set-screw, to keep it from getting lost, and put it away for another day.


Any suggestions on resetting that selector-ring set-screw, John ? :(


Luddite Frank

[hans voralberg]

How small is the view on long focal length like 85 or 135, like tunnel vision much? I'm regreting selling my KMZ turret finder and wanting the the VIOOH to replace it but will it be worse?

[Luddite Frank]

Hans,

I love my Leicas, but I find the VIOOH challenging to use, as it is VERY "squinty", even at 35mm setting. 90 & 135 are postively microscopic.

I have found the Nikon Varifocal and Tewe Polyfocal finders much easier on my eyes ; the viewfinder image stays the same size, these finders acting like a zoom-lens would on an SLR.

That's my very subjective opinion.

I do shoot quite a bit with 35 / 90 / 135 lenses on my Thread-mount Leicas, and tried the VIOOH once... that was enough for me.

I believe Cosina-Voigtlander has just come-out with a multi-focal accesory finder... look it up at Camera Quest...

Regards

Luddite Frank

[Al Kaplan]

They used to make a 28mm converter to screw in the front.

[payasam]

A small image, Hans, but more precise than any other finder I have used. I had a VIOOH with feet markings and never had trouble using it with lenses with metre scales. Tom, wouldn't "Dual Scale" be better than "Dual Range"?

[LeicaTom]

A small image, Hans, but more precise than any other finder I have used. I had a VIOOH with feet markings and never had trouble using it with lenses with metre scales. Tom, wouldn't "Dual Scale" be better than "Dual Range"?

Leica folks always use the term "Dual Range" when it comes to dicussing distances......(for example the Summicron lens is also called DR Feet/Meters) ;)

Tom

[Mr_Flibble]

Tom, I'll post some pictures of mine when I get home today (and remember to do it).

I did not get round to cleaning it last evening. The front and rear lens are in good condition, it's purely the prisms that are hazy.

Because of the haze in the VIOOH, I prefer using my black-nose VIDOM finder. It's no problem as I don't have any lenses with focal lenghts other than 35mm, 50mm, 90mm and 135mm.

[payasam]

Tom, the DR Summicron has two distance ranges, normal and close. Your VIOOH has two distance scales -- feet and metres -- for the same range of distances.

[LeicaTom]

Tom, the DR Summicron has two distance ranges, normal and close. Your VIOOH has two distance scales -- feet and metres -- for the same range of distances.

Sorry, but you know what, I`m not going to argue with you.....I posted this thread just to show everyone a rare finder, not to discuss what sounds better to someone, everytime this finder was mentioned to me it`s been called in the rare collectors Leica circles a
"Dual Range Finder" :)

Tom

PS: What`s totally off subject here: You can also read more here about the
"Dual Range" Summicron it`s not known as distance ranges ~ The lens is set in "Feet & Meters"

http://www.cameraquest.com/m50dr.htm

[Luddite Frank]

Tom, I'll post some pictures of mine when I get home today (and remember to do it).

I did not get round to cleaning it last evening. The front and rear lens are in good condition, it's purely the prisms that are hazy.

Because of the haze in the VIOOH, I prefer using my black-nose VIDOM finder. It's no problem as I don't have any lenses with focal lenghts other than 35mm, 50mm, 90mm and 135mm.


Rick,

I spent another two hours laboring over my VIOOH last night...

Word to the wise - don't touch any of the screws on the big knurled selector ring, especially the small flat-head screw up near the indicator scale ! :bang:

Removing the four screws on the back to expose the prism assembly isn't bad; the cover is probably a tight fit in the body.

The prism bracket is secured by two screws to the upper right of the bracket, as you look inside from the back.


The small screw I've been battling with has to do with the detent (click-stop) spring/mechanism; I shouldn't have removed it, and I have not been able to get it to re-thread into whatever has the female threads inside.... :mad::confused::(.

Good luck cleaning your prisms !


Frank :cool:

PS: RE - VIDOM - any usage issuses / challenges regarding the inverted image ?

[Mr_Flibble]

You get used to it. Taking portraits without turning the rear of the viewfinder 90 degrees is a good way to get sea-sick though. ;)

I'll try cleaning the prisms on the VIOOH this evening. I'll flush it with some alcohol and lighter fluid for now. Wiping dirt from between the prisms is going to be hard though.

off topic: Two drops of lighter fluid was all it took to get my new Rolleicord going, one in the shutter and one on the winding know to get the frame lock working again
Also managed to get my aperture rings on my Summar and Summitar moving freely again with a very small drop of gun oil. Sweet!
All that needs to be remedied now is the separation in the Summitar.

[Mr_Flibble]

As promised. Pardon the quality, my 2mp p&s ixus v2 was the only thing with a charged battery ;)

http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/viooh01.jpg

http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/viooh02.jpg

http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/viooh03.jpg

[HuubL]

Right, Tom has a straight-sided one. It's the latest model with 3.5, 5, 8.5, 9 and 13.5 cm focal lengths, probably from the late fifties-early sixties. I understand the curved-sided lyre shapes, like Rick has, were earlier and not numbered. They have a 7.3 cm focal length instead of 8.5 cm. I have two VIOOHs, one lyre-shaped without number and a later, numbered (89980), straight-sided one, like Tom's. However, both have single distance scales, feet and meters, respectively.

BTW, I cleaned the prism surfaces of both of them as described above, and that made a lot of difference.

[LeicaTom]

As promised. Pardon the quality, my 2mp p&s ixus v2 was the only thing with a charged battery ;)

http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/viooh01.jpg

http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/viooh02.jpg

http://www.flibweb.nl/flibweb/cpg143/albums/userpics/10001/viooh03.jpg

So that seems to be a 1947 to 1948 issue, so built right before mine, the stamped "Germany" came about around late 1946/early 1947.

VIOOH`s are a collectors hodge podge of variations, there has to be at least 10 to 15 different types, with and without speical engravings etc.

Nice shots BTW, I like the jacket, I`m going to be making up a Postwar/Korean War era style jacket sometime myself.......to go with all my 1945/46 gear.

Tom

[Mr_Flibble]

Whilst cleaning the prisms I saw there was a 4-digit number on the underside of the foot.
Perhaps mine was put together from different finders?

I need to let it dry to determine the amount of improvement. There's some lens-cleaning fluid between the 3rd and 4th prism :(


Nice shots BTW, I like the jacket, I`m going to be making up a Postwar/Korean War era style jacket sometime myself.......to go with all my 1945/46 gear.
Funny you should say that, on the 20th it's Veterans day in the Netherlands. I'm putting together a Korean-war 2nd Infantry Division uniform. Dutch troops fought with the "Second-to-None" division wearing US uniforms.
I pretty much have it all except the black jumpboots and the Indian Head Patch.

I have a WW2 war photographer uniform, but I want to change it over to Photo Signal Company for the big 2nd Armored Tour through Belgium and The Netherlands in September.

[charjohncarter]

I use one, but didn't know what it was called. I will really help you with composition and framing.

[LeicaTom]

Whilst cleaning the prisms I saw there was a 4-digit number on the underside of the foot.
Perhaps mine was put together from different finders?


As we both know that postwar 1945 to 48 period at Leitz was pretty crazy, quality control was pretty relaxed, and they put equipment together with anything they could get there hands on, with 96% of all production going to the American Forces Post Exchange Services and also US Air Force and US Army contacts, it could very well have been a finder put together for such an order, I`ve never noticed numbers at the bottom of the foot before, but that version you have is the pre 1948 styled one, so I`m sure it was just made up for some kit that an American received........

I like the "Black Nose" VIOOH`s the best from all the postwar variations, it was issued 1945 and 46 only, made untill the heavy duty chromium batches could be mixed up, by June 1946 the Chrome problems were settled and paint quality also improved with the return of Semi-Gloss Black Lacquer`s for the accessory parts etc.

Tom

[Mr_Flibble]

I've mentioned it before a few times that mine came from KEH. In the light of your information it could possibly be a post-war US occupation forces bring-back.
It was marked as "UGLY" at KEH, so I knew what I was getting.

Time to check if those seems between the prisms have dried out properly.

[Mr_Flibble]

I ran into some trouble cleaning the VIOOH prisms. It looked like there was moisture and air bubbles trapped between the 3rd and 4th prism. And as these are glued together I can't get at it.

So with nothing to lose I thought about possible solutions. First thing that sprang to mind was give it time to dry. So I stuck it in the sun for most of Saturday. All this did in my mind was expand the bubbles, making the the view through the prisms even worse.
Then I thought about pulling the prisms apart, but material used to bond them together looked pretty tough.
So I thought about it some more and figured I might as well force dry it.
So I stuck it in the oven at 50 degrees Celcius at first....until the freezer engaged and blew the fuse.
So the old oven was a no-go with my new freezer. Well, there was the microwave/oven combo on another circuit.
The problem was, it didn't go lower then a 110 Degrees Celcius.
In the end I chanced it and left the prisms in there for 10 minutes.
Big improvement. There's still some moisture but only at the edges.

After reassembling the finder the view is still slightly hazy but much better than before.

[payasam]

I have known of the "DR Summicron" since around 1968, when I used one briefly. Before coming to this forum, I had always heard it called the "near range" Summicron. This may well be a difference between US usage and British.

It is a pleasure suddenly to learn that my Canon SLR lenses, bought in 1975 and sold not so long ago, were all "dual range" as that is defined on this thread. But then no Leicaphile would so much as look at them...

[JohnTF]

I have known of the "DR Summicron" since around 1968, when I used one briefly. Before coming to this forum, I had always heard it called the "near range" Summicron. This may well be a difference between US usage and British.

It is a pleasure suddenly to learn that my Canon SLR lenses, bought in 1975 and sold not so long ago, were all "dual range" as that is defined on this thread. But then no Leicaphile would so much as look at them...

Leica refers to what I had always heard referred to as the "DR", as the "Summicron 50mm f2 with close focusing" in the M8 manual as one on the list of incompatible lenses.

Mine came with an M2 body as I recall, and I was looking forward to using it with the M8 until reality struck. ;-)

There was some confusion as to whether it could be made to work, and as I was told Leica only made one close focus lens, the Summicron Dual Range, and Close Focusing had to be names that evidently commonly refer to the same lens.

I took less guilt that more informed people than I were confused for a while. I suppose there is little demand for any sort of modification to the M8 or some of the other recent vintage M Leicas for which I have been led to believe also have some compatibility issues.


Regards, John

[LeicaTom]

I have known of the "DR Summicron" since around 1968, when I used one briefly. Before coming to this forum, I had always heard it called the "near range" Summicron. This may well be a difference between US usage and British.

It is a pleasure suddenly to learn that my Canon SLR lenses, bought in 1975 and sold not so long ago, were all "dual range" as that is defined on this thread. But then no Leicaphile would so much as look at them...

Payasam,

I have a Vietnam era F-1 Mech and I love it :) The Canon f1.4/50 and the f1.2/55 in are great shooters!!!!

I do like to have the feet labeled out for me, as I`ve alway been a dummie with match, don`t have a clue how to change over to meters.......

[LeicaTom]

I ran into some trouble cleaning the VIOOH prisms. It looked like there was moisture and air bubbles trapped between the 3rd and 4th prism. And as these are glued together I can't get at it.

So with nothing to lose I thought about possible solutions. First thing that sprang to mind was give it time to dry. So I stuck it in the sun for most of Saturday. All this did in my mind was expand the bubbles, making the the view through the prisms even worse.
Then I thought about pulling the prisms apart, but material used to bond them together looked pretty tough.
So I thought about it some more and figured I might as well force dry it.
So I stuck it in the oven at 50 degrees Celcius at first....until the freezer engaged and blew the fuse.
So the old oven was a no-go with my new freezer. Well, there was the microwave/oven combo on another circuit.
The problem was, it didn't go lower then a 110 Degrees Celcius.
In the end I chanced it and left the prisms in there for 10 minutes.
Big improvement. There's still some moisture but only at the edges.

After reassembling the finder the view is still slightly hazy but much better than before.

Yes, while it`s going to cost more......I`m going to have Don Goldberg, go over my VIOOH`s, while he also has the internal and external replacement parts as well, I have a WW2 era, a 45'/46' Black Nose and this Dual Range one, I don`t really use them, they are neat collectibles.....well, maybe I`ll break them out with the 90 Elmar and 135 Hektor, sometime? ;)

Tom

[payasam]

India went metric in 1957, so we had to re-learn how to think measurements: although Imperial units survive even today. I confess that it took me over 30 years to begin to think in kilometres rather than in miles; and in estimating shorter distances I still think in feet rather than in metres. It helps that a metre is not so different from a yard. As a schoolboy I ran the 100 metre hurdles, known at the time as "110 yards".