View Full Version : EBay fees now 14%!
Am I the only person to be struck by eBay's huge price increases?
Lately I've sold nearly all my gear thru RFF and been very satisfied. But when I had a 85/1.4 Nikkor to sell, being an evil SLR item, I thought I'd try eBay. Sold the item, got a good price. THen today I got the invoice and nearly fainted: a 10% final value fee. PLus of course their PayPal cut, which from memory is around 3.6% but has probably gone up too.
I looked briefly to see when the prices went up, and noticed several threads where sollers have commented that listing prices went up 40% in February, on top of another hike last year. Last summer I listed some items for a friends, and the total fees including PayPal were around 10%. So how come the media haven't reported one of the world's biggest new media companies hiking their prices to such a ludicrous degree?
I know they have to make back the $1billion they paid for Skype. But this must surely be another nail in the coffin.
IN short, this means that RFF, if you didn't think so already, is a much better place for camera deals. But how the hell am I gonna sell the partly dismantled orange spherical 60s TV sitting in the corner of my living room?
Pickett Wilson
06-04-2009, 10:51
If you want to reach the potential audience that eBay gives our auctions, your choices are...well, there aren't any. We just increase the reserve price on our auctions, or consider it the cost of doing business if we don't put reserves on items. I've never really understood the hostility toward eBay making money.
nobbylon
06-04-2009, 10:51
i've given up selling both here and ebay.
ebay because it's way too expensive
rff because of paypal
If you want to reach the potential audience that eBay gives our auctions, your choices are...well, there aren't any. We just increase the reserve price on our auctions, or consider it the cost of doing business if we don't put reserves on items. I've never really understood the hostility toward eBay making money.
Ah. So you have no resentment towards a 40% hike in fees.
Where do you live? I shall open a corner store near you.
What is the mainland European (predominately) objection to Paypal? Is it because IBAN transfers are so easy/free (its not the case in the UK). So many German/Dutch/French buyers/sellers seem to prefer using almost anything but Paypal as a transaction method.
Just curious - is it just the fees involved? I find splitting them 50/50 works well, as used to be the case when bank transfers weren't free...
Pickett Wilson
06-04-2009, 11:00
Paul, every seller deals with the same fees. It doesn't put you at a competitive disadvantage. Just ask more for what you sell. If there were a really competitive auction site offering lower fees, that would be different. But there isn't. And what eBay charges doesn't effect me at all.
I too have found that Ebay prices have jumped quite a bit. If has been suggested I were to up my prices then I reckon most of the items wouldn't sell. I certainly couldn't put them up by such a large percentage.
I currently have a Canon G7 and a Hexar Silver I'm hoping to sell but whether it will be Ebay now I can't say. I reckon RFF is gonna be my first try from now on. As for Paypal, I've never had a problem with it.
I've listed a few items here on RFF that did not sell and I was able to sell on ebay... then that ebay buyer turned around and resold the same items on RFF and someone bought it! It's quite interesting, really...
i've given up selling both here and ebay.
ebay because it's way too expensive
rff because of paypal
So what do you do?
In the UK, unless you're a business seller or selling a contract mobile phone or property there is a 10% charge.
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/fees.html
photobizzz
06-04-2009, 11:29
I personally don't like the eBay fees but it is the only game in town for online auctions so I do use them for some stuff. PayPal is just too gosh darn handy and I have never had any issues, actually paypal has worked on my behalf several times so I cant say anything bad about the service, although I have heard horror stories...
This is what worries me about all the big companies, they start off cool and cute and attract loads of users. Then when they are the biggest 'game in town' they start hiking up their price (whether that be money, or displayed advertising or service degradation) and people complain but realise that they themselves caused the predicament.
Of course, nothing is evil (except for non-comedy quiz shows on BBC Radio 4).
buzzardkid
06-04-2009, 11:39
I'm selling a Hexar RF Limited kit (unused) through evilBay (actually the cheapest on sale at the moment, any takers? :) ), it will be one of my last sales. Used to buy national in The Netherlands and sell international through evilBay, but it's no fun anymore. I'm not complaining though, I did this for five years, trading up and making profits, it has paid for most of my beloved Leica gear.
I've no major trouble with PayPal, but mainly with the evilBay fees and mostly their 'improved' feedback system, where impatient buyers only have the seller at hand to blame if their national postal services screw up. Jammed between a rock and a hard place: if I list fast shipping with international track&trace, fees top EUR 100 (actual fees!), if I cut the costs, it takes at least a week and a half. Either way, I'm losing. Those fools shouldn't have bought Skype, but DHL or UPS or FedEx. :bang:
I've recently started looking around for other auction sites that do not charge any fees. There's one here in Germany called Auvito and I might give that place a try next.
In times like this it amazes me that companies such as eBay raise their prices to try to compensate for lower revenues.
My local lab is also trying the same thing. This week they raised the prices of slide and b&w development by over 100%, from 3.99 Euro a roll to 8.09 Euro.
That means no more slide film for me and back to the darkroom for the b&w.
digitalintrigue
06-04-2009, 11:43
Ebay is the world's marketplace for photographic gear, they've done a great job; if they hadn't, they wouldn't be the world's marketplace.
Where else are you going to get so many people looking at your stuff for sale?
I had a Summicron-C 40 listed on RFF and got zero inquiries at $339. It went on ebay and reached $495. So, about those fees again? ;)
chris00nj
06-04-2009, 12:16
If eBay's prices go too high, people may form seperate communities with classifieds like RFF. I don't agree with people who call it evilBay. No one is forced to use eBay. The only thing that is "evil" is when money is forcefully taken out of my wallet. That only happens if I'm being robbed or on April 15th (tax day in the US).
When a gallon of gasoline rose above $3 last year, some people starting calling the oil companies evil or that they were colluding (I guess they also colluded the crash too). Some of the same people then go out any buy a $5 quart of Fiji water without any misgivings.
I'm not an eBay cheerleader. I think the fees are high as well. I vote that their fees are too high by listing my stuff on RFF first.
Between eBay's & paypal's fees, the average is usually 8%-10%. They only get as high as 14% if the item is <=$25. Yeah the 4% paypal fee can get expensive but it is convienent. I don't have to wait to send a check or email my credit card information to everyone.
digitalintrigue
06-04-2009, 12:21
Pretty much everyone is ok using credit cards, but merchant fees for that convenience raises the cost of every product you buy. I don't recall anyone ever complaining that Visa/Mastercard are making too much money.
In the old days, I might place a classified ad in the local paper, and it may generate 2 or 3 calls and who knows what I might be able to see the gear for. The ad would cost $30 or so to run for a week. $30 in ebay fees represents an $800 sale, and I've never failed to get a buyer...not so with local classifieds.
Am I the only person to be struck by eBay's huge price increases?
I live ~30 miles up the freeway from eBay. I'll go give them a kick in the shin for you. Be right back. ;):p
Seriously, no one likes a pay hike, but what are you gonna do? About all you can do is b-itch about it. eBay has damn near cornered the market for online auctions. There are other auction sites like...umm.... :(
The other major online marketplace is Amazon. A friend of mine sells books on Amazon. She's not a store or a business. She's just a person with a bunch of books she wants to sell. Maybe Amazon will open things up in the future and allow a classified section (?).
BTW, this news will probably result in higher RFF classified fees.
/
I don't call them evil. I just object to a 40% hike in fees.
I say this in sadness, because I loved eBay so much. I cleared out dozens of radios, old trains, Elvis 78s, sheet music and jeans from my loft, bought Leicas, a 1951 Kiev, a 1965 Heuer Carrera.. eBay provided me with my only spending money for the last four or five years. I'm sorry that they wasted a million on Skype and are now sucking money out of its clientele, because I don't think it will work for anyone, long-term.
dannynono
06-04-2009, 13:01
I liked eBay for what it offered 3-4 years ago, but with the increasing competition of other sites to buy/sell directly and the increase in shoddy goods/sellers on ebay (and the decrease in good deals) I find myself using it as a last resort - if at all.
I still like paypal, but have had to increase my password strength there after someone hacked my account and passed a bogus transaction (charges were reversed).
Brian Sweeney
06-04-2009, 13:05
Final value fees are given here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html#fine
The fine print shows they stick it to you extra hard for photography. But its not 10%.
Paul I just don't understand where you get the 40% figure? Unless you mean on inexpensive items, but it is still only 10%. Just add it into your reserve. eBay fees are only a pain to sellers of new stuff, trying to match discounted retail store prices.
Everything I put on eBay seems to sell, at good prices. Good luck so far, nothing else even comes close, and I have sold at Christie's.
40% hike = the fees that used to total approx 10% of the sale price now total 14%, in the UK at least. Glad to hear you have it cheaper in the US, but I bet theyr'e testing the market before they hike the fees for you, too.
yes, I still love ebay, but I only love them 71% as much as I did last summer.
i'm currently at 578 + feedbacks (100%), with sales/purchases primarily in europe, usa and some asia. i've only had a few incidents, and 1-2 near misses, but all in all really appreciate the services of both ebay and paypal. yes, i'm against heavy or frequent price hikes, and will react by using RFF first wherever possible.
some pet grievances (may no longer be current):
no reserve prices on german ebay
difficulty advertising on the u.k. or french sites (reserves possible) because of some difficulty showing shipping costs
am definitely against forced linking of ebay and paypal on some country sites
paypal used to be more useful buying in the u.s.a., but with many u.s. sellers either refusing to sell internationally, or others who will ship only to paypal verified addresses, this option is "drying up".one great feature of paypal is the ability to browse through years of purchase or selling history. i found this very helpful in remembering what i paid or sold an item for.
thanks for yet another interesting thread!
greetings from hamburg
rick
digitalintrigue
06-04-2009, 13:27
Many USA sellers refuse to ship internationally, to their own detriment. I've seen auctions for identical gear go for much less when restricted to the USA.
Any USA 'power seller' has 'expanded seller protection' and can ship to any address, confirmed or not. But not everyone is a 'power seller.'
Ebay is the world's marketplace for photographic gear, they've done a great job; if they hadn't, they wouldn't be the world's marketplace.
Where else are you going to get so many people looking at your stuff for sale?
I had a Summicron-C 40 listed on RFF and got zero inquiries at $339. It went on ebay and reached $495. So, about those fees again? ;)Exactly. I had the same experience on photo.net and subsequently eBay. A brand-new CV 35mm Ultron didn't budge on PN, but on eBay it sold for more than the PN asking price. The interest in the lens was very high, and that is what you pay for, a guaranteed sale at a generally decent price, no endless emails with lowball offers, and provided you strictly follow the payment & shipping rules (of course you have to read them first) - you get paid and get to keep the money. With respect to the fees I sold several items on eBay in the last month from a few hundred $ upward and all of them were charged at a Final Value Fee of 4%. How I managed that I don't know but given that I got excellent prices for my stuff I can certainly live with it.
I also don't understand the issues people have with PayPal. Most people just don't seem to read the policies and requirements of services they use, then get upset when something "unexpected" happens. They're too lazy to do their due diligence in the first place. The other thing that irritates me about PayPal use is that sellers want buyers to pay the PayPal fee, at least on forums like RFF. Build expenses into the sales price and don't nickel & dime...
The 10% fee only applies to auctions (in the UK), If you use "buy it now" the fees are much lower. I 've sold quite a bit on ebay recently, all with BIN, sometimes with best offer, and the only one that got hit with 10% was the one auction I used.
crawdiddy
06-04-2009, 13:44
I realize Meg Whitman isn't CEO of ebay anymore. But her arrogance was really quite astounding when she said she was qualified to be President, but neither Obama nor McCain would be qualified to run a company like she had.
It's just that here in the US the banking system sucks, they are charging fees for wire transfer so you don't have any other option than to use paypal. In Europe wire transfer is pretty much free and many people avoid paypal with a good reason.
Ebay has monopoly so they can do whatever they want, and of course, there are no government regulations that control this.
digitalintrigue
06-04-2009, 14:15
Good, there are already enough government regulations, from toilet size to gas mileage, and if you are lucky enough to live in NYC, trans fats. :)
martin_t
06-04-2009, 15:12
It's their business, they can run it anyway they like. They
can shoot themselves in the foot, too.
digitalintrigue
06-04-2009, 15:48
It's pretty easy to mark customs at whatever, and insure through a third party, to most countries. That said, after hundreds of packages, not a single one has been lost...including to the known problem countries like Italy, Russia and Ukraine. The best way to grab unwanted attention shipping to those countries is a high declared value...I just shipped a lens to Moscow and marked it at $20. The corrupt customs official is probably not going to bother with that one.
digitalintrigue
06-04-2009, 16:04
One can also fool around with insurance bought from the shippers, that's somewhat of a crap shoot in and of itself. :) Luckily I haven't had to file any claims, and many boxes are self-insured.
Lots of stuff to Hong Kong, Japan, Europe. Nothing to Africa yet.
I realize Meg Whitman isn't CEO of ebay anymore. But her arrogance was really quite astounding when she said she was qualified to be President, but neither Obama nor McCain would be qualified to run a company like she had.
LOL!
A little arrogance, maybe, but combined with a large dose of common sense. Very few of our Washington politicians have the qualifications to run a major corporation - and definitively neither of "those two"!
charjohncarter
06-04-2009, 16:49
Ah. So you have no resentment towards a 40% hike in fees.
Where do you live? I shall open a corner store near you.
I do and I am a buyer: fewer articles for sale, higher starting prices, maybe putting the added fees into shipping, and soon decreased profits for EBay (which might be good). It reminds me of Maryland (the state); they saw a taxing opportunity on the 3000 returns that were over 1 million in salary or income. So they increased the tax on these 3000, except the next year there were only 2000 such returns AND the revenue from this tax decreased.
Living were I do (a small Thailand village) Ebay is a Godsend to me. ALL of the equipment I've bought in the last 6 months came from Ebay. I know in some cases I've paid over the odds but when an item is not available in your Country (and that's often the case here) Ebay is the answer. Transactions are simple and delivery is as quick as the in-country delivery. I've just had a Minolta Multi Pro scanner arrive from the states in 6 days.
Long may they survive I say!
digitalintrigue
06-04-2009, 17:22
'zackly. The converse is also true--reduce tax rates, tax revenues go UP.
digitalintrigue
06-04-2009, 17:22
ReeRay nice to see you here, welcome to RFF. :) How's the G2?
I do and I am a buyer: fewer articles for sale, higher starting prices, maybe putting the added fees into shipping, and soon decreased profits for EBay (which might be good). It reminds me of Maryland (the state); they saw a taxing opportunity on the 3000 returns that were over 1 million in salary or income. So they increased the tax on these 3000, except the next year there were only 2000 such returns AND the revenue from this tax decreased.
They never learn! http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/will102899.asp
charjohncarter
06-04-2009, 18:23
They never learn! http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/will102899.asp
Maybe they didn't go to schools that taught basic math and logic, or maybe they weren't smart enough to understand those disciplines. (living in CA, I now realize that logical politicians with basic math skills are a rarity).
Not 10% in the US, unless you are selling really cheap stuff and figure in the insertion fee. Perhaps in the UK there are tax issues for eBay?
$0.01 - $25.00
8.75% of the closing value
$25.01- $1,000.00
8.75% of the initial $25.00 ($2.19), plus 3.50% of the remaining closing value balance($25.01 - $1,000.00)
Equal to or Over $1000.01
8.75% of the initial $25.00 ($2.19), plus 3.50% of the initial $25.01 - $1,000.00 ($34.12), plus 1.50% of the remaining closing value balance($1000.01 - closing value)
On really valuable items it is ridiculously cheap compared to auction houses.
On a $3000 item under 2%!!
Higher now on small items - but pretty much the same as it a has been for a couple of years.
In Australia:
$0-$75: 5.25%
$75-$1000: 2.75%
$1000+: 1.5%
....and to think here in China, taobao, the Chinese equivalent to ebay because no one uses the Chinese ebay because its a rip off....anyway taobao is free to list and free to sell, send, receive money and so on yet makes ridiculous amounts of money.
After I sold my mamiya 6 on ebay and got stung pretty hard by those fees I will never ever ever again sell anything on there
digitalintrigue
06-04-2009, 21:28
Stung? You did read how much the fees are before you posted, right?
larmarv916
06-04-2009, 21:41
Ebay is already letting it show that traffic is down across the board. SO..like any government style business. They just raise the "taxes"..I mean fees. but in reality you take a look at many sections at Ebay and all you see is the same overpriced lots almost never being sold....just rolled over again and again.
Pay Pal is another bad business model and actually bordering on fraud. Also the "required" usage is very close to the behavior of the old days or having only one phone company....Ma Bell. PayPal is always causing endless problems for customers and sellers. And let do not forget the wonderful maze of voice mail. Oh this is the best example of the worst the internet business can offer. Endless regulations, problems with no acutal resoulition and of course....they are not responsible for anything !
I think for the most part Ebay is now a business that is just shooting it's self in the foot every other day. Im sure next Ebay will demand you surrender your 1st ammendment rights ! So no wonder we dumped Ebay over a year ago !!
ReeRay nice to see you here, welcome to RFF. :) How's the G2?
I'm loving it thanks. But what a learning curve from Dslr's! DOF, focusing, take the lens cap off !
REALLY glad I purchased it.
notturtle
06-04-2009, 22:16
I can't stand either ebay or paypal and try to avoid both wherever possible. I last sold on ebay over three years ago. I have bought and sold here recently. Ebat is taking the p1ss and has been for some time. back in 2005 they DOUBLED some of their fees I recall.
I quit shipping to Europe because of all the arguments over insurance and declared value. I just could not win the argument, even when I clearly stated my intention to declare full value in my ads. Too many people wanted me to send as "no value" but somehow insure it, but make it a "gift." Of course I ship to known buyers - who are not trying to pull a fast one on their tax-man. I of course had/have no way other than the payment for the "gift" from the buyer to prove value, since most of my stuff was from flea markets.
Don't blame buyers for doing it, it's the absurd situation when they are asked to pay VAT for second-hand items even when those have been already paid by the first owner. You haven't paid taxes on flea markets either.
David Murphy
06-04-2009, 23:20
When the suits move in and take over a business, the prices usually go through the roof. That's why a fish sandwich the size of a silver dollar costs $5 at Mc Donalds. After all how are all the MBA-suits expected to fund their corporate perks and bonuses?
I don't think the online flea market culture (the old eBay) and corporate the Wall Street culture can ever mix successfully. Wall street suits don't do garage sales, and junk sellers don't do IPO's - the mixture is ludicrous. The fundamental root of eBay's problem, like a lot of scientifically managed businesses, is that the owners (aka shareholders) and managers are not participants in what the business does.
mfunnell
06-04-2009, 23:55
The fundamental root of eBay's problem, like a lot of scientifically managed businesses, is that the owners (aka shareholders) and managers are not participants in what the business does.A couple of points:
1. You should have put scare-quotes around "scientifically managed"!
2. The shareholders are just as likely to get scr*w*d over as customers
and employees.
I'm not making point 2 up: an example from around a year ago: a large investment bank over here made $300M profit on a deal. Of that, roughly (from memory) $60M was distributed to shareholders (the "owners", who bore all the financial risk) via dividend and capital gain on share price. $20M was retained in the business for various uses. $220M was distributed as commission, bonus payments etc. amongst the various sales, executive and management types at the bank. Who bore none of the risk (unless separately as shareholders themselves) yet took the (male) lion's share of the reward.
(A deal by the Macquarie Bank; well documented in the Sydney Morning Herald around April/May 2008 and the proximate cause of my father selling off his holdings. In retrospect a pretty good decision, as the Great Recession hit Macquarie share prices especially hard.)
All Off Topic, I suppose, but the "owner/agent problem", IMO, made a large contribution to our current collective mess.
...Mike
When they hiked up their prices, they've eliminated a lot of sellers, including myself. Ebay once was the opportunity for thousands of people to have a kind of home-based business, but now it's not even a good source of supplementary income.
35mmdelux
06-06-2009, 08:45
I generally know what I want for my gear and try to sell on PNET or RFF. A state of the art Hasselblad 80mm CFE lens at $750 is a hard sell on PNET/RFF, but sells right away on eBay. While no one like price hikes, my stuff sells pretty fast there. In the 1990's I sold alot in the local paper classifieds. Id get a few calls and sometimes had to relist at substantial cost and lost time.
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