View Full Version : Leica 5cm Lenses: Which would you recommend?
I have always been interested in the development of Leica 5cm lenses over the past 50 years or so. The old style Elmar 5cm 3.5 seems to still have its users and supporters after all these years. I find this lens to be a nice alternative to use if you already have a more modern 50mm lens. It can be quite sharp when used at small apertures.
The Summar 5cm 2.0 has in recent years been receiving renewed interest here for portraits. It seems to have a reputation to flare in direct light. I find it to be a lovely lens. I once sold such a lens and then I bought a replacment lens a year later. I would recommend to always use a hood with it.
The Summarit is the fast 5cm 1.5 with character. You either hate its performance or you find it great. Some would say that such a lens is reserved for special light portraits. It is very well built.
The Summitar may be the most used of the last four Leica lenses mentioned here. I get this feeling from the overwhelming positive comments about the Summitar here at RFF and at PN. If a Summicron is too sharp for your needs/taste, then a Summitar may be a good choice.
The Summicron with its collapsible version may be sharper than the Summitar when used closed down. Some people swear by this lens for great B&W photography. Others find it too soft when used wide open. The rigid Summicron and the DR version of it have many followers. I am one of them. I love the rigid V1 Summicron for the look in the resulting images. It may not be as cutting sharp as later Summicron versions, but it still holds its place as one of the all time Leica classic lenses.
Which of these classic Leica 50mm lenses do you use and why?
In the presence of so many super sharp and contrasty 50mm lenses by Leica and other manufacturers, do you still for whatever reason favor a Leica classical 50mm lens for your uses?
This is not a thread about which non Leica lenses you prefer but it is about giving your opinion about the classical Leica line-up.
edited: The Summilux and the Noctilux should have been included here. They can be under "other".
Interesting thread idea, Raid. I recently purchased a beautiful Elmar 50/2.8 LTM, probably dating from around 1957 or so. From my reading of Rogliatti, it appears this lens is identical to the v. 1 Elmar-M except for having a thread mount. I like having the extra stop (over my Elmar 50/3.5), the ergonomics are better, and I like the fact that it takes 39mm filters rather than the clamp-on variety designed for the older Elmar. Now I need to find a hood for it!
My first serious road-test of this lens was last weekend at the Sacramento Jazz Festival, and I have to say I'm impressed! It's sharp, while having lovely smooth bokeh. I've put some samples up over on my flickr.
The Elmars work very well in the bright, often harsh summer sunlight here in California. While they're best known for b&w, I've also been quite pleased w/ their performance w/ color film.
My favorite 50 is the pre asph 50 summilux with the detachable hood. Beautiful oof rendition and very sharp when stopped down. I have a foggy summar with lots of cleaning marks that is very lovely wide open for soft focus. the hood cost almost as much as the lens. For the price it works great for soft focus art shots.
Hi Steve,
I forgot to list the Elmar 5cm 2.8 here. I love this lens. It is sharp and it is very well built. The newer Elmar-M is supposedly sharper, but I am more interested in the older Leica lenses here.
Your LTM Elmar may be harder to get than the M mount version of the older style Elmar.
Let us know how you like its performance with you.
My favorite 50 is the pre asph 50 summilux with the detachable hood. Beautiful oof rendition and very sharp when stopped down. I have a foggy summar with lots of cleaning marks that is very lovely wide open for soft focus. the hood cost almost as much as the lens. For the price it works great for soft focus art shots.
I must admit that I listed the lenses that I happen to own, and I did not list the old style Summilux or the Noctilux super fast lenses. I am glad that you reminded us here about the Summilux. I guess, it would fall under "other lenses".
i only have summarit lens beside jupiters and industars. i can say i am very satisfied with it - it is sharp enough at f1.5 - i think about the same sharpness as my jupiter 8 at f2. i read many bad things on net abot summarit - and i was confused because photos on net looked ok to me - so when i saw this summarit with damaged filter ring i had to try it because i know i will not find cheap leica lens in near future if i dont buy that one. it went with me on trip to poland and it served really well.
People are voting in the poll, but not everyone wants to say what's on their mind. The collapsible Cron is so far most widely chosen in the poll. Does the collapsibility make this lens more attractive for users?
nzeeman: Yes, the Summarit can be sharp if you get a good example of it. Vintage lenses can require adjustments with years of usage.
benmacphoto
05-30-2009, 14:44
My first lens was the collapsible Summicron "rare earth" version. Its a fantastic lens and I still use it, not as often anymore since I bought an M3 which came with a rigid Summicron. The rigid Summicron is my favorite lens. I bought a first year Summitar to try that out. The lens was in horrible shape, but I cleaned it up. It has a great vintage look to the images. So these are my favorite 50's which I still have and use.
Hello Raid:
The poll asks two questions - what have you used and what would you recommend.
From the list, I've used the DR, Summar, M and LTM coated f3.5 Elmar, Collapsible and I would recommend them all. The DR edges out the Elmar and Collapsible by a "bit". It is sharp without the bite of the later Summicrons.
yours
FPJ
Hello Raid:
The poll asks two questions - what have you used and what would you recommend.
From the list, I've used the DR, Summar, M and LTM coated f3.5 Elmar, Collapsible and I would recommend them all. The DR edges out the Elmar and Collapsible by a "bit". It is sharp without the bite of the later Summicrons.
yours
FPJ
Hi John,
Thanks for addressing these two questions here.
I have used everyone of the listed lenses except the DR. No clue whether this lens is actually any different from the rigid Cron. Some rumors exist that Leica people handpicked the DR examples, but some say this because of the need for certain focal lengths for the DR.
Somehow, I ended up with all the lenses you listed except for the Rigid Summicron.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3415/3439562166_93c372d1c4.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fgsemedo/3439562166/)
(The 50 Elmar is not in the photo - I actually have two of them. And neither is the col. Summicron)
Personally, I like the 50 Summitar the best out of all of the old Leitz glass. Not so much for its performance, but the look it gives. After the Summitar, I prefer the 50 Elmar. It always gives nice tones and its sharp even at f3.5. The low-speed of the Elmar doesn't bother me much as I usually shoot it with Tri-X rated at 1600.
The DR Summicron has this melting bokeh - sometimes I like it and sometimes I don't. When I first got the DR, I actually preferred my (ex) J3 Brianov over it but I'm slowly getting used to the DR. I do find it the highest resolving of all my old Leitz fifties and the build quality is better than anything I've ever from Leica. Even the build quality of my 50 Summilux-ASPH is not as nice! The more I use the DR, the more I'm getting to like it. I always thought that the DR and Rigid were basically the same except for the DR's close-focusing capabilities.
Lately, I've been curious about the 50f2.5 Hektor.
Good to see you here, Nando. So you also believe that somehow the DR is better resolving than the rigid Summicron. It seems that DR users like to believe in the superiority of their DR! I have never used a DR, and I cannot comment on this mystery. It is interesting that quite a few people like the old Elmar.
Do you compensate in the developing process when you expose the ASA400 film at 1600?
Who else believes that the DR is somehow a sharper lens than the rigid Summicron? I know that some people believe that the two lenses are basically identical optically other than the close focus capability of the DR.
I use the Collapsible and DR 'crons. The collapsible is a great walking around lens, compact and very light weight. Wide open it is, as you say, quite soft, but I love it for portraits of children. The DR I use as my default portrait lens. Up close and wide open I think it's great! Stop them down, and I can't tell the difference.
Vic
Vic,
Do you also use 50mm lenses that are more modern than the DR? I am just curious whether people use the older lenses occasionally while they use modern lenses more often or is it that people use vintage lenses only.
Gabriel M.A.
05-30-2009, 18:23
The poll is titled "Which of these lenses have you used or are you still using?" but the thread is titled "Which would you recommend?"
I'm not sure if you mean one over the other, or both.
I recommend any of them, depending on what your photograph's look is that you're after.
I wouldn't recommend a lens just because I've used it. Perhaps if I sold them :D But I'd only recommend them if I knew what they want out of the lens.
My twopence.
I recommend any of them, depending on what your photograph's look is that you're after.
Hi Gabriel,
I meant to ask both questions. Users of such lenses are also the most qualified to comment on whether the would recommend any of these lenses or not.
I have no negative feelings about any of the listed lenses.
So collecting input on the lenses and about the specific usages would be very useful.
I have no experience w/ the non-Elmar lenses in your poll, Raid, and not enough experience w/ my new (to me) 50/2.8 (although early results are promising), but I would certainly recommend the Elmar 50/3.5 to anyone who is looking for a compact, lower contrast lens. Although this lens is usually associated w/ street or portrait photography, it does well w/ landscapes too. Mine is coated, and does pretty well w/ color as well as b&w. OK, so here are a few pics:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3063/2302980809_895892017f_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3619/3552815653_2e6a755d96_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3544/3357407519_5c56267bed_o.jpg
You could also have a lot of fun w/ this lens indoors, w/ Tri-X @ 1200 or Neopan 1600.
Steve,
Each of the three posted images look excellent. The lens is sharp indeed and it allows you to manage high contrast scenes well. The last image is beautifully composed.
Good to see you here, Nando. So you also believe that somehow the DR is better resolving than the rigid Summicron. It seems that DR users like to believe in the superiority of their DR! I have never used a DR, and I cannot comment on this mystery. It is interesting that quite a few people like the old Elmar.
Do you compensate in the developing process when you expose the ASA400 film at 1600?
Who else believes that the DR is somehow a sharper lens than the rigid Summicron? I know that some people believe that the two lenses are basically identical optically other than the close focus capability of the DR.
Hi Raid,
What I meant to say that the DR was the highest resolving out of my classic fifties. I never tried a Rigid Summicron but I always thought it was basically the same as the DR. If you want a really high resolving classic lens, I'd recommend the 35f2.8 Summaron!
I develop Tri-X at 1600 in Rodinal 1:100 semi-stand. Here's a shot of my friend taken with the 50 Elmar wide-open and Tri-X at 1600:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3244/3286220921_fb563fbc21.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fgsemedo/3286220921/)
only downside is it's larger and heaver than some 50's for a carry everywhere 50. I have a '66 black one, weighs a lot and is longer than many 50's, but worth it.
My favorite 50 is the pre asph 50 summilux with the detachable hood. Beautiful oof rendition and very sharp when stopped down. I have a foggy summar with lots of cleaning marks that is very lovely wide open for soft focus. the hood cost almost as much as the lens. For the price it works great for soft focus art shots.
Nando -- Great pic! It proves my last point! There's no reason why an Elmar 50/3.5 can't be a great indoor lens, too.
Steve,
Each of the three posted images look excellent. The lens is sharp indeed and it allows you to manage high contrast scenes well. The last image is beautifully composed.
Raid, thank you. It's an amazing little lens!
LeicaTom
05-30-2009, 21:05
Each 50mm I use is for a different reason for the styles I produce in my Retro PinUp and Fetish work..........
Pre 1946 Elmar f3.5/50: Uncoated and Coated versions ~ Great for reproducing very "old" looking photos, I nearly always shoot at f3.5, that`s enough sharpness and dof for mostly dealing with Black & White 400 asa films.
*This is pretty much the lens that started it ALL for Leica, and if you ask me it STILL does!!!!!*
Pre 1946 Summitar f2.0/50: Uncoated and Coated versions ~ Great for portraits and shooting artistic stuff, the round aperture blades produce a signature/bokeh that blows the late Summitar and early 1950`s Summicron away
(I don`t like either one of those lenses)
Pre 1949 Xenon f1.5/50: I have a Uncoated original first year production 1936 issue, great art lens, what I call the "Compact Thambar" ~ perfect for shooting portraits of women, and I prefer to use it with Black & White 400 asa films.
1950`s Summarit f1.5/50: I "LOVE" My Summitar ~ It`s a lens that has been bashed for years as being a non performer, it`s a delight to use photographing women, especially with color films and also artistic films (such as slide E-6 to C-41 crossprocessing)
1990`s Rigid Summicron f2.0/50: My favorite version is my 1992 one, near razor sharp, crystal clear shots, I use it mostly stopped down to f5.6 and beyond shooting artistic films for crossprocessing.
That`s how I use my Leitz 50mm`s and what I think of them, I use them about 40% of the time I`m working, I still am more partical to my Canon f1.2 and f1.5 for most of my work now, with my Nikkor HC f2.0/50 thrown in for good measure. :D
Happy Shooting!
Tom
Nando -- Great pic! It proves my last point! There's no reason why an Elmar 50/3.5 can't be a great indoor lens, too.
Thanks Steve. I like your third shot very much. I'm with you when it comes to the Elmars.
I use my IIIf primarily with my 35mm and 50mm Elmars now. They're slow but their small size makes up for it - a truly pocketable kit. I don't hesitate to use them indoors. Here's one my mother with the the 35f3.5 Elmar (uncoated).
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3305/3286581014_969bd6d559.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fgsemedo/3286581014/)
The only Leica lens I've got is the DR Cron. It does everything I want in a general purpose lens. Plenty of sharpness, yet a wonderful smooth sharpness. I'm not necessarily looking for a 'vintage' look, it just matches what I look for in b/w photography. I haven't shot colour with it yet, so I don't know how it fares there, but I'm not concerned since the majority of my colour work is digital. In any case, the DR seems to me to straddle the line between vintage and modern, taking the best from each.
The only thing I'd want is something smaller and lighter. The DR is a beast of a lens and can get tiresome carrying it around all day. All of the collapsible lenses seem to have some kind of interest to me. I see myself most likely picking up either an Elmar or a Summarit to get something a little different from the Cron. If I had to pick one lens to use for the rest of my life though, I'm already set.
DennisPT
05-30-2009, 23:29
The 50/2.5 Hektor has a bit more 'punch' in color than the 50 Elmar, IMHO.
The 50/2.5 Hektor has a bit more 'punch' in color than the 50 Elmar, IMHO.
Hi Dennis,
I rarely see such a lens discussed at RFF not have I seen photos taken with the Hektor.
Hi Tom,
Thanks for explaining why you like each of the lenses that you have listed. The Xenon is a lens that is hardly ever discussed either. Why do you prefer the older Summitar version? What is different?
DennisPT
05-31-2009, 08:25
Hi Raid,
It's late night here in Hong Kong. I can only "shoot my toes" at home. This one is with Hektor 5cm wide open. Only WB adjusted.
DennisPT
05-31-2009, 08:30
Here is the one with 5cm Elmar, again wide open. WB adjusted same as last shot. Both lens are uncoated. The Elmar seems sharper (f/2.5 vs f/3.5) and the color difference is not that obvious with digital.
Not sure if this helps, Raid.
Cheers,
Dennis
Dennis,
Thanks for sharing with us portraits of your toes! They are now archived forever and for the entire world to enjoy ....
The Elmar looks sharper but the Hektor has a smooth OFF background.
This is from my first roll with a Summar and color film. A lens hood is required when direct light is present.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/RF_Summar_12.jpg
My Summarit may be challenged optically, but I am leaving it as it is as my softer focus portrait lens. These are my daughters.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/Summarit/776403-R1-15-15small.jpg
This photo was taken with the first version Elmar 5cm 2.8. It is very sharp. The later model 2.8 Elmar-M is supposedly even sharper.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/Elmar/th_460483-R1-13-12.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/Elmar/?action=view¤t=460483-R1-13-12.jpg)
I rarely use the Summitar. This is a recent image taken in Pensacola at some fishing pier. I like the paint effect by the Summitar.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/Summitar/th_57010035.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/Summitar/?action=view¤t=57010035.jpg)
The old 3.5 Elmar with a Leica Standard:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/th_elmarstandardleica01.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/?action=view¤t=elmarstandardleica01.jpg)
The only Leica lens I've got is the DR Cron. It does everything I want in a general purpose lens. Plenty of sharpness, yet a wonderful smooth sharpness. I'm not necessarily looking for a 'vintage' look, it just matches what I look for in b/w photography. I haven't shot colour with it yet, so I don't know how it fares there, but I'm not concerned since the majority of my colour work is digital. In any case, the DR seems to me to straddle the line between vintage and modern, taking the best from each.
The only thing I'd want is something smaller and lighter. The DR is a beast of a lens and can get tiresome carrying it around all day. All of the collapsible lenses seem to have some kind of interest to me. I see myself most likely picking up either an Elmar or a Summarit to get something a little different from the Cron. If I had to pick one lens to use for the rest of my life though, I'm already set.
There is a current RFF thread in which someone is asking about focusing the DR on the M8. It seems that if your goal is to use an M8 with a Summicron V1, the rigid Summicron is the one to get. The DR has some problems with focusing on the M8.
LeicaTom
05-31-2009, 12:21
Raid,
Did you EVER take apart your Summarit?
I had the same problem you have, it was some slight oil mist, in-between the front and rear element and cleaned right up with some Isopropyl alcohol and now the lens is crystal clear as new!
Well, the Xenon and Summarit work hand and hand with my work, I think the Xenon`s great for real vintage looking Black & White work and the Summarit is great for vintage looking color work, it`s alot to do with the coatings and also the Summarit glass has some improvements over the original 1936 Xenon, it produces photos that are screaming with "Leica Glow" and like the Elmar it leaves everything with a Leica signature..... :D
Tom
Raid,
Did you EVER take apart your Summarit?
I had the same problem you have, it was some slight oil mist, in-between the front and rear element and cleaned right up with some Isopropyl alcohol and now the lens is crystal clear as new!
Well, the Xenon and Summarit work hand and hand with my work, I think the Xenon`s great for real vintage looking Black & White work and the Summarit is great for vintage looking color work, it`s alot to do with the coatings and also the Summarit glass has some improvements over the original 1936 Xenon, it produces photos that are screaming with "Leica Glow" and like the Elmar it leaves everything with a Leica signature..... :D
Tom
Tom,
I once sent out the Summarit to be cleaned, and it returned to me clean but soft focus. I don't need yet another sharp 50mm lens. I have several sharp 50mm lenses, so I will keep the Summarit as a special application lens.
Even Don Goldberg advised me not the send him the lens after he saw a few images taken with the lens.
kermaier
05-31-2009, 14:13
Hi Steve,
I forgot to list the Elmar 5cm 2.8 here. I love this lens. It is sharp and it is very well built.
Yes, yes and yes -- that's the lens I meant when I voted for "Other".
::Ari
Yes, yes and yes -- that's the lens I meant when I voted for "Other".
::Ari
Ari,
For some reason, this is lens is so good that I did not think of it as a vintage lens. So far, people voted for the collapsible Summicron, the Summitar and the DR the most. The Summar has quite low vote counts. It is interesting that the DR has more votes than the rigid Cron.
benmacphoto
05-31-2009, 14:57
Rigid Summicron (1957)
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh273/benmacphoto87/rigidcron.jpg
Collapsible "Rare Earth" Summicron (1952)
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh273/benmacphoto87/collapsiblecron.jpg
Summitar (1938)
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh273/benmacphoto87/summitarprechem.jpg
This image shows how bad the optics were of my Summitar before I fixed it. The glue that held the front elements together broke down creating a hazy center. Which showed up in the photos. I took the front element section out of the lens, and soaked it in Toluene for a week. Cleared it right up but..... this cased a tint in the glass. A light yellow, which actually makes the lens act like my radio active Summicron.
Summitar (After Toluene)
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh273/benmacphoto87/L1000243.jpg
No more haze and a nice vintage look to it.
Perhaps the DR is available to more users and the rigids are in display cases?
yours
FPJ
I think that the DR allowed close-focusing, which many people liked to have in a 50mm lens. The two Summicron lenses were most likely of similar cost at the time they were sold new. I never felt the need to get a DR since I got the rigid version.
I have heard about the radioactive Summicron before. Is it really sharper than a non-radioactive Summicron? Brian Sweeney has such a lens, I recall.
benmacphoto
05-31-2009, 15:51
I have heard about the radioactive Summicron before. Is it really sharper than a non-radioactive Summicron? Brian Sweeney has such a lens, I recall.
I have never noticed a difference in sharpness between the two. The are very similar, the only difference being that with black and white film there is a bit more contrast with the radio active 'cron and with color film there is a warm tint to it as well.
I have never noticed a difference in sharpness between the two. The are very similar, the only difference being that with black and white film there is a bit more contrast with the radio active 'cron and with color film there is a warm tint to it as well.
So this is similar to the radioactive Pentax Takumar 50/1.4. It is like using a yellow filter.
benmacphoto
05-31-2009, 19:18
From what I have seen with the now yellow tint to my Summitar it acts the same way.
The tint in the "rare earth" 'cron comes from the thorium glass, I am not sure if this could increase the sharpness of the lens. From what I have seen there is no difference.
LeicaTom
06-01-2009, 01:01
Yes, I used a "radioactive" *UNDER 1 MILLION* LTM Cron back in Germany, and the only difference from it and the later 1950`s Summicron`s, was it had a slight warm tint , like a sepia or warm filter would give. :)
*Nice shot benmac*
Tom
PS: Hopefully I`ll have some crossprocessed work to add here soon from my 92' rigid Cron, I just shot them yesterday :D
DennisPT
06-01-2009, 04:56
Dennis,
Thanks for sharing with us portraits of your toes! They are now archived forever and for the entire world to enjoy ....
The Elmar looks sharper but the Hektor has a smooth OFF background.
Hope it doesn't provoke any foot fetishism.:D
And thanks for sharing your photos with us Raid. The Summar is an interesting lens I'm looking for but I would like to find a copy with round aperture rather than hexagon.
I'm trying to get some film shots with those two lenses.
DennisPT
06-01-2009, 05:05
50mm Summarit is another interesting portrait lens.
Dennis,
How can you tell whether a Summar has round aperture [blades?] or hexanon? Is it by serial number? Did the number of blades change over the years of production?
The Summar is one of the least mentioned Leica lenses in this poll based on the numbers shown in the poll. Is its reputation that poor or what could be another reason for the low numbers?
If you combine the rigid and the DR [being identical optically], then this Summicron is the most widely chosen Leica lens in this poll.
50mm Summarit is another interesting portrait lens.
Just a month ago I nearly bought a second Summarit [$399] so that I can keep my current lens as a soft focus portrait lens and then use the second Summarit for sharper images, but then I did not buy the lens.
Hi Raid: I voted in the poll (Summar, Summarit, coll. Summicron) but I no longer own any of these lenses. Sonnars ended up taking their places - almost like in some bad '50's sci-fi movie.
Hi Raid: I voted in the poll (Summar, Summarit, coll. Summicron) but I no longer own any of these lenses. Sonnars ended up taking their places - almost like in some bad '50's sci-fi movie.
Hi John,
I love my Sonnars, but I also like to switch to other 5mm lenses. Last night, I removed the ZJ 5cm 1.5 from the Canon P and I replaced it with a Canon 50/1.4. maybe soon I will replace the 50/1.4 with a Summarit. :D
DennisPT
06-01-2009, 07:55
Raid,
If I remember correctly, I have only seen a handful of round aperture blades Summar. Don't know much about serial number coorelation. Sorry.
Dennis
Raid,
If I remember correctly, I have only seen a handful of round aperture blades Summar. Don't know much about serial number coorelation. Sorry.
Dennis
I will check out my Summar when I return home to see which type of aperture blades it has.
edited: here is a nice discussion about the round vs. dog-leg aperture blades: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19518
It seems that 1950 was the swtich time from dog-leg to round.
Sonny Boy Havidson
06-01-2009, 13:49
The only Leica lens I use is a 35/3.5 Summaron. As far as 50 mm are concerned, I would enjoy a Summar or a Summitar as I am a bokey head. I have not found any sastifying sample for the moment and until then I will use my Canon 50/1.2 or my Russian lenses.
While there exist many focal lenghts and many alternative brands 50mm RF lenses, I would like to get more information on the Leica 50mm lenses.
Jamie Pillers
06-01-2009, 18:03
Raid,
Thanks for putting this thread up. I love reading about people's impressions of various lenses.. it really helps narrow things down a bit when searching for the ideal (?) set of lenses.
Regards,
Jamie
Just now when remembering, I notice that except for the Summarit, I've had and used all of them :eek:. Also the Elmar 50/2.8 (classic), and several newer 50s (Elmar-M, Summicron v3, v4, Summilux pre-asph v3). Had all - just not at the same time :) Currently playing with the DR. No verdict yet on that one.
So far, I got most keepers with the collapsible Summicron. The DR is probably the best built Leica lens - EVER.
Cheers,
Roland.
Roland,
The DR is a lens that I am getting more interested in trying out or buying. The fact that it focus closeand that it is a very well built Summicron makes it a very attractive package for me.
What is a "good price" for a DR these weeks?
Jamie,
I have always viewed the Leica 50mm lenses as the only true Leica lenses. To me, the rest of the lenses are optional. Leica photography was based mainly on 5cm lenses,and it is those lenses that made Leica famous over the years.
This is my version of "Leica History". Maybe it is inaccurate ...
Jamie Pillers
06-01-2009, 22:04
Raid,
Do you have a sense of where the 40mm Summicron-C would fall, character-wise amonst these lenses? Thanks.
Jamie
Jaimie,
The 40mm Summicron is a lens with a modern look. I would match it with a Summicron rigid or DR from the list of the vintage lenses listed with better sharpness wide open. I once compared it with a loaner Pentax 43mm limited edition RF lens. The results were very similar. It is flare resistant and it is of medium to high contrast. It is a GREAT bargain lens to have and not to let go of.
DennisPT
06-02-2009, 08:25
Jaimie,
The 40mm Summicron is a lens with a modern look. I would match it with a Summicron rigid or DR from the list of the vintage lenses listed with better sharpness wide open. I once compared it with a loaner Pentax 43mm limited edition RF lens. The results were very similar. It is flare resistant and it is of medium to high contrast. It is a GREAT bargain lens to have and not to let go of.
Raid,
Unfortunately the price of 40mm Summicron has gone up ever since you said this.:D
Dennis
P.S. - I like this lens a lot though.
DennisPT
06-02-2009, 08:31
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70308&d=1243957402Summitar uncoated and Kodak NC 160. Aperture 4-ish. No hood.
Raid,
Unfortunately the price of 40mm Summicron has gone up ever since you said this.:D
Dennis
P.S. - I like this lens a lot though.
Dennis,
I made the mistake of selling the Leica CL on which the Summicron-C was mounted. Now the CL prices are much higher than they used to be.
It would be useful to list here the production numbers of these lenses. The Elmar 3.5, the collapsible Summicron, the DR, and the Summitar have a clear lead in terms of the numbers in the polls.
DennisPT
06-02-2009, 08:56
Roland,
The DR is a lens that I am getting more interested in trying out or buying. The fact that it focus closeand that it is a very well built Summicron makes it a very attractive package for me.
What is a "good price" for a DR these weeks?
Raid,
I remember I bought a user DR with no goggles and multiple clean marks for US$180 2-3 years ago. DR has become more sought after in the past 8-9 months, user ones are sub $300 and better ones can go for $600 or up.:(
I don't like the photos taken by this lens and that's why I don't keep it; but it's personnal.
Dennis
Raid,
I remember I bought a user DR with no goggles and multiple clean marks for US$180 2-3 years ago. DR has become more sought after in the past 8-9 months, user ones are sub $300 and better ones can go for $600 or up.:(
I don't like the photos taken by this lens and that's why I don't keep it; but it's personnal.
Dennis
Dennis,
I have the rigid Summicron in mint condition, so I don't really "need" a DR. I am just curious about its close focusing capabilities. Maybe I should get a Summarit that is sharp and not soft focus instead. There is one for $300 on sale. Is this a good price?
Hello Raid:
Elmar 50 f3.5 379,050
Summar 122,860
DR 55,145
Summicron col. 110,681
Summicron Rigid 64,215
Summitar 170,761
Summarit 64,870
Production nos. from Hove Pocket Book 5th Ed.
yours
FPJ
Hello Raid:
Elmar 50 f3.5 379,050
Summar 122,860
DR 55,145
Summicron col. 110,681
Summicron Rigid 64,215
Summitar 170,761
Summarit 64,870
Production nos. from Hove Pocket Book 5th Ed.
yours
FPJ
Hello John,
Thanks for the production numbers. The Elmar and the Summitar were produced in larger quantities than the rest, so our RFF sample reflects this. The DR is most likely favored by users who want the close-focus capability in addition to its reputation. The Summar's low poll number suggests that users wanted something else from Leica.
I know that I am freelancing here! It's just a hunch...
DennisPT
06-02-2009, 19:18
Dennis,
I have the rigid Summicron in mint condition, so I don't really "need" a DR. I am just curious about its close focusing capabilities. Maybe I should get a Summarit that is sharp and not soft focus instead. There is one for $300 on sale. Is this a good price?
Raid,
Summarit is prone to have hazing, I was lucky as it only took me twice to find a decent one. I'll be cautionus in the glass condition before pulling the trigger.
Hope it helps.
Dennis
DennisPT
06-02-2009, 19:23
Hektor in LTM: 9646 according to Identifying Leica Lenses 1999.
Jamie Pillers
06-02-2009, 19:23
Thanks Raid,
I'm beginning to understand the usefulness of high and low contrast lenses (flat light lens, bright daytime lens, etc.). So I think I'm going to keep the 40 for early morning, late evening, and these S.F. Bay Area foggy summer days, assuming I can get it running right.
Jamie
Raid,
Summarit is prone to have hazing, I was lucky as it only took me twice to find a decent one. I'll be cautionus in the glass condition before pulling the trigger.
Hope it helps.
Dennis
Is $300 a good price for a Summarit?
Hektor in LTM: 9646 according to Identifying Leica Lenses 1999.
Thanks, Dennis. This is then a low production lens. I wonder who owns one here.
Thanks Raid,
I'm beginning to understand the usefulness of high and low contrast lenses (flat light lens, bright daytime lens, etc.). So I think I'm going to keep the 40 for early morning, late evening, and these S.F. Bay Area foggy summer days, assuming I can get it running right.
Jamie
Jamie,
Using different types of film also helps with vintage lenses. I find Fuji Reala 100 wonderful with the old lenses. You get pastel renditions of colors.
DennisPT
06-04-2009, 06:49
The 50/2.5 Hektor has a bit more 'punch' in color than the 50 Elmar, IMHO.
I was wrong. Just shot with hektor and elmar side by side on film and the hektor is much flatter in terms of color. Memory fading, sign of getting elder. My bad.
Hi Dennis,
The older the lens is, the more likely it is of lower contrast.
DennisPT
06-04-2009, 06:54
Is $300 a good price for a Summarit?
For $300, I expect little haze on 1 surface and hope is cleanable/removable. Also scratch free.
Dennis
DennisPT
06-04-2009, 06:58
Hi Dennis,
The older the lens is, the more likely it is of lower contrast.
Yes, that's right. The reason I said that is I remember a photo taken with the hektor; the gold fish in the pond really popped out. Thinking it twice, maybe I was deceived by the overall flatness of the pond.
I have found one Summarit for $250 and one for $300. I am now asking about the condition of the lenses.
LeicaTom
06-04-2009, 13:36
$300 is a deal on a Summarit if it`s clean and scratch free, (which is almost impossible)
I`ve seen "MINTY" LTM one`s sell for $450/$500 before, so it`s all about condition with these....and the 1949 and 1952 versions with "Taylor & Hobson" are $500+ just for the engraving! :eek:
Tom
Hi Tom,
I have some pics of the lenses. Could you pm me your email address again?
Thanks.
Does anyone have a direct comparison of the f2.8 vs f3.5 Elmar*?
Here is my example of what the f3.5 can do in a high contrast situation.
http://not.contaxg.com/document.php?id=12468
yours
FPJ
* Yes, i'll check flickr.
John,
Your images look great. The Elmar 3.5 did a superb job [with your work!] in the high contrast situations. It makes sense why so many photographers still dig this lens.
It could be that I included the 3.5 Elmar in my earlier 50mm lens comparisons, but at that time no 2.8 Elmar was included since I did not own one and nobody sent me one.
Thanks, Dennis. This is then a low production lens. I wonder who owns one here.
Hi Raid, here's a random snapshot from this years easter egg hunt with a Hektor. I thought it might give you an idea of how it handles a high contrast situation. Delta 100.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70415&d=1244298367
Hi Raid, here's a random snapshot from this years easter egg hunt with a Hektor. I thought it might give you an idea of how it handles a high contrast situation. Delta 100.
Hi Mike,
Is the Hektor similar to a 3.5 Elmar in such high contrast situations or does it give less contrast and sharpness?
This is an image taken with the 3.5 Elmar [end of roll] at 4.0:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/Elmar/50mmElmar35.jpg
This is a similar image taken with the rigid 5cm 3.5 Industrar at 4.0:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/Elmar/50mmIndustrar35.jpg
This image was taken with the 2.8 Elmar:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/raidamin/Elmar/460483-R1-13-12-1.jpg
Hi Mike,
Is the Hektor similar to a 3.5 Elmar in such high contrast situations or does it give less contrast and sharpness?
Hi Raid,
Unfortunately I've never used a 3.5 Elmar. My Hektor has slightly less contrast than my uncoated Summar, but I'm not sure I'd be able to tell unless on the same roll, same scene, same process, etc. It has a bit of bloom on the front element that I've never cleaned, so that might influence the contrast a bit.
As for sharpness, I've read that sample variation can be high on the Hektor. Mine's plenty sharp for me, and I used it wide open on an M8 and was impressed at how sharp a 1930 lens could be at f2.5. My criteria might differ from others, of course.
Thanks Raid - so the the f2.8 is a tad more crisp f4-5.6?
Hello Mike;
Your image of the children makes a great case for old glass and modern film. I'll try to resist the urge to look for a Hektor.
yours
FPJ
The combination of old lens with modern film can be excellent indeed. I like Reala 100 for color film with vintage oprtics, but I am currently using Kodac 100UC that I got from Frank Petronia.
The 2.8 Elmar is sharper at smaller apertures than the 3.5 Elmar,and of course, it has higher contrast. It is also easier to change aperture on the 2.8 model.
DennisPT
06-06-2009, 08:42
Hi Raid,
Unfortunately I've never used a 3.5 Elmar. My Hektor has slightly less contrast than my uncoated Summar, but I'm not sure I'd be able to tell unless on the same roll, same scene, same process, etc. It has a bit of bloom on the front element that I've never cleaned, so that might influence the contrast a bit.
As for sharpness, I've read that sample variation can be high on the Hektor. Mine's plenty sharp for me, and I used it wide open on an M8 and was impressed at how sharp a 1930 lens could be at f2.5. My criteria might differ from others, of course.
Just got the prints shot by Elmar and Hektor (both uncoated), same scene, same roll of 400UC and both shot at f/4. Hektor has lower contrast than Elmar but at the same time Elmar is a tad sharper, particularly at the corners. I guess this is kind of expected but won't hurt to say again.
Does anyone have a direct comparison of the f2.8 vs f3.5 Elmar*?
Here is my example of what the f3.5 can do in a high contrast situation.
http://not.contaxg.com/document.php?id=12468
yours
FPJ
* Yes, i'll check flickr.
I can't do a direct comparison (which would require the same scene), but these may give you some idea...
Elmar 50/2.8 LTM at f.11:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3417/3601347198_a93dc564c5_o.jpg
Same lens, f.4:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3390/3600534631_729602ef04_o.jpg
Elmar 50/3.5 coated, at f.11:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3337/3512379176_713337ef72_o.jpg
Same lens, at f.4:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3063/2302980809_895892017f_o.jpg
LeicaTom
06-06-2009, 15:20
Well, it`s NOT a LTM lens, but a 1992 Rigid Summicron f2/50 that I shot these with last weekend........
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/data/500/Sally_Bride_2.jpg
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/data/500/Sally_Bride_11.jpg
A Crossprocessed Fujichrome 100 shot with my 1987 Leica M6, this time working with a new Florida retro model the lovely
Miss Sally Blake :) *Shot somewhere around f4 or f5.6*
Enjoy!
Tom
Tom,
The rigid Summicron does well here.
I am not a fan of cross processing, but I am sure that many people love it!
Luddite Frank
06-08-2009, 19:29
Great thread, Raid !
Upon the advice of my photographer / collector mentor, my first LTM body & lens were a III-f and collapsible Summicron ( # 1,191,xxx ).
Soon after, I acquired a 1932 Leica D , with nickel Elmar, "11 o' clock Inf lock", # 99,xxx.
Last year I picked-up three Summars: 369,xxx (coated?); 228,xxx; and 312,xxx (with Leica III/ F, # 117,xxx).
These are the limit of my Leitz 5cm lenses...
I usually have the 'Cron on my "beater" III (1934); last month I was on a kick to shoot only black Leica with 1930's uncoated lenses, so my least-scratched Summar was pressed into service (not sure which # that would be as I type).
I also shot a roll with my 1932 D / nickel Elmar at a pre-1916 car-show in SE Pennsylvania.
I have been confining myself to Fujicolor 200 for consistency.
I noticed the nickel Elmar shots are all quite sharp, but "lacking in contrast"... it was a cloudy day, threatening rain. There also seemed to be some "haze" in the center of several shots, so there may be an issue with lubricant deposit on the interior surfaces.
The Summar offers a bit more contrast, but there are issues with flare, so a hood is a "must"... I use Summicron Barn-doors on an A-36 to E-39 filter adapter ring. I like the bokeh produced by the Summar.
I would like to get a nice Summitar, as well as a Sumamrit or a Xenon
(or both :D).
I would also like to get a 2,5 Hektor 5cm to go on the D... but they don't turn-up too often.
The f/ 2.5 Hektor is described in the 1933 Leitz catalogue as "Universal lens of specially large aperture." :rolleyes:
The same catalogue says this about the f/ 2 Summar: "Ultra-rapid lens, for all branches of amateur photography and exposures by artifical light."
Apparently there was a also non-collapsible Summar early-on.
By the time of the 1936 catalogue, the only 5 cm lenses available were the 3,5 Elmar and the collapsible Summar (available in nickel or Chrome).
I would imagine there were / are un-coupled versions of the 2,5 Hektor...
Has anyone found that slower or faster film speeds work best with un-coated lenses ? ( I have tried shooting Fuji color 400 or 800 with the uncoated lenses, and any gains from the additional speed seems to be countered by more grain than I would like ....)
Luddite Frank
Hello Luddite,
Thanks for the information on your Leica 5cm experience.
I prefer not to challenge uncoated lenses too much; I use slow film with such lenses. Try Reala 100 with a Summar.
Luddite Frank
06-09-2009, 07:23
Hello Luddite,
Thanks for the information on your Leica 5cm experience.
I prefer not to challenge uncoated lenses too much; I use slow film with such lenses. Try Reala 100 with a Summar.
Raid,
Thanks for the suggestion. I will probably have to get the Reala mail-order.
Any suggestions where to look for it ?
Slightly OT, in addition to the LTM kit that I drag around every day, today I took along a Kodak Retina I (uncoated 3,5 Ektar), loaded with Plus-X 125...
I have not shot any B&W for nearly 30 years, and figure it's worth a try...:cool:
Regards,
LF
Raid,
Thanks for the suggestion. I will probably have to get the Reala mail-order.
Any suggestions where to look for it ?
Slightly OT, in addition to the LTM kit that I drag around every day, today I took along a Kodak Retina I (uncoated Tessar), loaded with Plus-X 125...
I have not shot any B&W for nearly 30 years, and figure it's worth a try...:cool:
Regards,
LF
Luddite,
I buy all my film with mail order.
Try freestyle photography or B&H for reasonable prices.
You also can get good deals on ebay. Shipping cost is always the catch if you want only 1-2 rolls.
Al Kaplan
06-09-2009, 12:24
I had a 50mm f/2.5 Hektor for a year or two. It was uncoated, flat as you could imagine, and didn't really get sharp until about f/5.6. It cost me $20 in Boston back in '63.
Al,
I would be interested in such a lens one day. If I keep my eyes open, I may find one for a reasonable price.
I guess that any Hektor is regarded as "low quality". My 135 Hektor is built very well.
Erik van Straten
06-12-2009, 16:28
The collapsible Summicron 50mm is one of the finest lenses ever created. This picture is of a stunning quality. At about f/8. Tmax400. Printed on Ilford multigrade IV. Leica MP.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2695/4017486891_e5c8202238_b.jpg
What is it in the collapsible Summicron that so many people here seem to like?
If it is sharpness, then most Leica lenses are sharp at f 8.
Is it something else maybe?
Erik van Straten
06-12-2009, 16:49
What is it in the collapsible Summicron that so many people here seem to like?
If it is sharpness, then most Leica lenses are sharp at f 8.
Is it something else maybe?
Yes, it has a very fine tonality no other Leica lens has. This lens is a bit prone to flare, but otherwise... It is hard to get an unspoiled example, but looking for one is worth the effort. It is also very sharp at f/2, see my test on a M8 in another thread.
Erik.
Erik van Straten
06-12-2009, 16:56
Summaron 35mm f/3.5. Easy to get, not expensive. Tremendous quality. At about f/4. Tmax400, printed on Ilford multigrade IV.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3388/3620941204_539e3e5df4_b.jpg
Thank you for the photos, Erik.
I have both lenses you mention here.
Erik van Straten
06-12-2009, 17:50
This is another fine result of the 50mm collapsible Summicron. Wide open this time. Tmax400, printed on Ilford multigrade IV.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2431/3621039944_4e33c07c88_b.jpg
Erik van Straten
06-13-2009, 15:42
This is a pre-war Elmar 50mm f/3.5, coated after the war, at about f/5,6. Tmax400, printed on Ilford multigrade IV.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2440/3622700781_e8ff93c740_b.jpg
Erik van Straten
06-13-2009, 16:09
I can also recommend the rigid 50mm f/2.0 Summicron (the first version). This is at about f/5.6, TriXpan, microdol X, printed on Ilford multigrade IV.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2485/4013783303_476f175a42_o.jpg
Erik,
Keep posting images taken with Leica 5cm lenses.
I used today a Summicron [first version rigid]. It is a wonderful lens, isn't it.
Erik van Straten
06-14-2009, 02:52
Raid,
It sure is. It is less prone to flare than the collapsible and also more sharp, but it lacks somehow the fine tonality of the collapsible.
Here is another one with the first version rigid Summicron 50mm, but now at f/4. TriX and microdol, printed on Ilford multigrade IV.
Erik.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3345/3624828782_1fb7625dd8_b.jpg
hello everyone, here's one from the summitar i just bought.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3254/3614909402_a4ed5a01eb_o.jpg
As mounted on my M6.
http://web2.twitpic.com/img/11858572-c3920823d7ddbad31ee4b0bbeded2fb7.4a34dd7b-full.jpg
thinkfloyd
06-15-2009, 02:49
Question, since I have yet to get my first Leitz 50mm, is $250 a good price for a 50/2 summitar that is coated and in great condition? (no haze, scratches, fungus, etc. barrel is in great condition as well.)
Thanks!
Old Elmar's delivers nice vintage results IMO, although havent done any lens comparisons etc. perhaps when digi-age comes to my Leica land :p
I have one without any serial, and here is one simple example.
http://albatrossi.net/older/2007/07_from_brazil/slides/0817_Seinajoki_50mmElmar_film1_001.jpg
Raid,
It sure is. It is less prone to flare than the collapsible and also more sharp, but it lacks somehow the fine tonality of the collapsible.
Here is another one with the first version rigid Summicron 50mm, but now at f/4. TriX and microdol, printed on Ilford multigrade IV.
Erik.
Erik,
How do you best describe "tonality"? Must you see a large B&W print to be able to actually see differences in tonality between different lenses?
thinkfloyd
06-15-2009, 20:36
what is a good price for a near mint 50/2 coated summitar?
DennisPT
06-15-2009, 20:51
I had a 50mm f/2.5 Hektor for a year or two. It was uncoated, flat as you could imagine, and didn't really get sharp until about f/5.6. It cost me $20 in Boston back in '63.
Hi Al,
So how much was a gallon of gas in 63?
Cheers,
Dennis
Al sent me some beautiful set of photos [posted on one piece of cardboard] taken of the Jefferson Airplane in 1969.
Erik van Straten
06-17-2009, 11:05
Erik,
How do you best describe "tonality"? Must you see a large B&W print to be able to actually see differences in tonality between different lenses?
Raid, as I only work on film and make b+w-prints, it is from this kind of work that I've made my observations.
There is however an obvious difference between the two lenses, big enough to justify to own both.
Erik.
Thank you, Erik. It is experience based comments like yours that we need here.
It is becoming quite clear that the Elmar 3.5 and the later Summitar and collapsible Summicron are the most popular here. The Summar is skipped for some reason.
Erik van Straten
07-16-2009, 16:12
It is becoming quite clear that the Elmar 3.5 and the later Summitar and collapsible Summicron are the most popular here. The Summar is skipped for some reason.
Under ideal circumstances the Summar is a killer. But it flares and wide open it is soft. I think a good coated Summar with a round diaphragm would win a a high place in the top 10 of 50mm lenses.
Erik.
Erik,
There used to be a place which coats lens elements, and then a Summar could be coated as you want it to be.
Erik van Straten
07-17-2009, 04:08
Raid,
Do you know such a place? I once heard about a place in Ukrania that did coating on old lenses, but I think I would rather not send anything in that direction. I'd better look out for one that is already coated. They do exist.
Erik.
Vince Lupo
07-17-2009, 06:37
Xenon!
http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww72/VinceLupo/VinMerVerdun.jpg
Summarit! (on Pana G1)
http://auv-i.com/P1040609.jpg
DR Summicron - at apertures around f5.6 this lens is great for this type of shots: contrasty lighting, old architecture...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2563/3700469932_e43127d9ab_b.jpg
The three posted images are just wonderful looking. I rarely see examples from a Xenon. One day I may add such a lens to what I have on LTM 5cm lenses. It is most likely similar or worse than a SUmmar when it comes to flaring up in direct light. As for the Summarit, I own a "defective" one that is soft. I had the chance to buy a Sumamrit for $250 recently, but I passed since it had wipe marks.
The last image is beautiful. The DR has lots of supporters, and it is a great lens, just as rigid Summicron is.
Thanks.
Erik van Straten
07-17-2009, 12:17
Summicron Collapsible. Shot with Leica II, VIOOH finder and SCNOO winder. Tmax400, printed on Ilford IV MG.
Erik.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2638/3729573017_338d4e7362_b.jpg
Erik van Straten
07-17-2009, 12:45
Leica I with Elmar 50mm f/3.5 (1930) full aperture, focused with the aid of a FODIS, Tmax400 printed on Ilford MG IV.
Erik.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3463/3730435242_b4e11ff479_b.jpg
Erik van Straten
07-17-2009, 14:05
Summicron Collapsible. Tmax400, printed on Ilford MG IV.
Erik.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2438/3730623146_d3259006ab_b.jpg
Concerning coating old lenses, might be worth contacting Malcolm Taylor in the UK. He did a great job refurbing my Summitar.
I am curious why this poll was put under "Leica Screw Mount / LTM Cameras ". Actually for Leica Screw Mount / LTM Cameras, there are not too much selections as LTM rigid and summilux are very expensive.
I am curious why this poll was put under "Leica Screw Mount / LTM Cameras ". Actually for Leica Screw Mount / LTM Cameras, there are not too much selections as LTM rigid and summilux are very expensive.
Four lenses are LTM while two are M mount, so I picked the category fitting the majority.
There is no LTM/M category here.
Actually all these lenses, except the DR (arguably the same as the rigid) exist in LTM. Cheers,
Roland.
I am quite surprised at how many people prefer the collapsible Cron.
helenhill
07-30-2009, 15:03
1956 collapsible cron...first shot on a Bus
Sharp but not Extreme....LOVELY Falloffhttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3456/3888558844_274a4ed42e_o.jpg
What a lovely image this is, Helen.
My collapsible Cron is clean but it has a small chip in the front glass.
helenhill
08-02-2009, 07:10
Thank YOU , Raid !
Its a real Jewel
I was pleasantly Surprised & Quite Pleased
Its a Keeper:)
I need to use my collapsible cron more often.
The Leica 50mm lenses will most likely appreciate in value as we have more people buying the M9 with a full size sensor. Get your lens while you can.
excellent
09-14-2009, 09:33
Gimme whatever lens M9 users don't want.
Erik van Straten
09-14-2009, 15:54
The Voigtländer Color Skopar 50mm f/2.5 is quite some lens...
Erik.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2595/3921246070_353774c419_b.jpg
This thread is about Leica 50mm lenses.
helenhill
09-17-2009, 15:04
1956 collapsible ...neopan 1600 ...Eric's shot of a passerby....kind of has a Cinematic Noir Coolness :)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2480/3869312996_7d52aee3a2.jpg
Erik van Straten
09-17-2009, 15:46
I'm sorry, Raid, but the Color Skopar 50mm f/2.5 is more Leica than Voigtländer.
To smoothen things out, this is the rigid Summicron 50mm f/2 version I, Leica M2, TriX printed on Ilford MGIV fb.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3480/3930246694_3b3c122c22_b.jpg
I am not putting any other lens makers down, and I want to find out which vintage Leica 50mm lenses RFF members favor and why they favor some lenses and not others.
Thanks, Erik.
1956 collapsible ...neopan 1600 ...Eric's shot of a passerby....kind of has a Cinematic Noir Coolness :)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2480/3869312996_7d52aee3a2.jpg
Very cool, Helen.
Or maybe, "Very Cool Helen"?
helenhill
09-18-2009, 04:58
Lol.....Thanx, Raid
:cool:....I love it too
LeicaTom
09-19-2009, 23:22
Xenon!
http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww72/VinceLupo/VinMerVerdun.jpg
What years your Xenon Vince??? I`m looking for a #491xxx serial numbered one (1939) and I`ll trade my beautiful clean 1936 version #289xxx for a equally fine example :) ~ let me know if you know anyone who`s got a #491xxx one
I love the Xenon look, it`s the perfect Leica Black N White lens......
Tom
LeicaTom
09-20-2009, 00:16
Summarit! (on Pana G1)
http://auv-i.com/P1040609.jpg
Beautiful shot!
This photo may have finally "won" me over to the Pana G1???? We`ll see :)
Tom
Ron (Netherlands)
09-20-2009, 02:35
I sold my rigid summicron last type, because I found it much to heavy (you can still see it in my signature picture on the M4-2). From your list I sometimes use an old elmar (but prefer its russian cousin) and the most used lens was my 1940 summitar, until I found a nice priced summicron 35mm asph, which are not heavy.
Taken with 1940 Summitar (the pic from my rff gallery)
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/data/7163/SCAN0032.JPG
Erik van Straten
09-21-2009, 11:24
Leitz Elmar 50mm f/2.8, Leica M2, TriX printed on Ilford MGIV fb.
Erik.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2476/3941267175_1987b097bc_b.jpg
Vince Lupo
09-22-2009, 01:25
What years your Xenon Vince??? I`m looking for a #491xxx serial numbered one (1939) and I`ll trade my beautiful clean 1936 version #289xxx for a equally fine example :) ~ let me know if you know anyone who`s got a #491xxx one
I love the Xenon look, it`s the perfect Leica Black N White lens......
Tom
Sorry -- just noticed your post this morning (for some reason I don't always receive notification of responses....just me?).
Anyhow, my Xenon is.....ready?.....288252.
Guess that was the wrong answer, eh?
I rather like what the Summar does to colours...
http://k43.pbase.com/g1/25/676025/2/115024565.USYBjsMr.jpg
LeicaTom
09-23-2009, 12:51
I rather like what the Summar does to colours...
http://k43.pbase.com/g1/25/676025/2/115024565.USYBjsMr.jpg
Very Fine! (prewar uncoated Summitar is simillar as well) :)
Tom
typhillips
10-01-2009, 20:49
For character, you can't beat the Summar, shot wide open. The bokeh has such an amazing 3-D painterly quality to it. I have gotten some beautiful results, in both B&W and color.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3005/3070140076_f3b18c88cc.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3193/2873675263_19ab6fdded.jpg
Just don't point it into sunlight! It definitely flares something fierce. I don't even bother with a hood. I just shade the lens with my left hand.
Here's a couple of recent photos from my Summar.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3482/3967360686_fda2727c13_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fgsemedo/3967360686/)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2586/3967360770_a0d4f0ce0e_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fgsemedo/3967360770/)
I think that the only solution is to get them all. :D
I recently acquired a '49 summitar:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3115/3914999388_3c443d26bc_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2483/3839132622_214364b094_o.jpg
Mephiloco
10-01-2009, 23:30
I'm starting to warm up to my summarit, but it's a little tricky to predict how it'll perform. Really like it being 1.5. Think I need to rethink my developer combination though.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2440/3973227543_cfbdd252f7.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3487/3972226468_df28f3bdc4.jpg
Both shot on Arista Premium 400@400. 1/15th at f1.5. Processed with Rodinal 1+100, stand developed. Maybe a little too much grain.
Some of the shots came out really well, while others shot almost exactly the same had flare which almost completely masked the faces.
Ronald M
10-04-2009, 10:11
I voted for the first four, and shall never sell them.
The others are nice lenses, but i don`t have them in LTM.
My fav is the rigid, but the optics are the same as DR and I don`t like the DR handling nearly as well.
Al Kaplan
10-04-2009, 10:30
There's obviously some fun involved with trying out various lenses to see how they handle flare, perhaps what their bokeh looks like, and so on. You could devote your life to doing just that. That's not the reason I make photographs. I prefer using a lens that I don't dislike, if you know what I mean, something that doesn't call attention to itself too much, and I don't have bunches of lenses to choose from, not even an example of every focal length.
helenhill
10-04-2009, 12:28
collapsible all the Way....Moihttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3446/3975255123_28426f4d17_o.jpg
helenhill
10-04-2009, 12:29
I have had the Elmar, the Summarit, the DR Cron...
Crisp & Sharp...ALL Lovely
BUT the Collapsible Stole my Heart...:D
themaxou
10-04-2009, 13:01
Hello,
I have had an Elmar f3,5, a Summar, a Summitar and a collapsible Summicron. I kept the Elmar because of his large scale of greys, his sharpness and because it fits very well on my IIIc. Even with its aperture, I find it very interesting. It is a very nice lens at full aperture, with a good definition at f5,6.
I did not like the Summar, too soft for me and with a low definition...
I did not find any difference between my Summitar and my Summicron. If it should buy a fastest lens, I will go for a Summitar for his bokeh, its sharpness, its very good definition at f5,6 or f8 and his really good price !
I gonna test a Sonnar on a Contax II.
collapsible all the Way....Moihttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3446/3975255123_28426f4d17_o.jpg
Very nice, Madam Helen.
Oui oui ...
Hello Raid,
This is a very interesting thread and I understand from your postings that you regard the classic Leica screw mount lenses, and in particular the 50mm's, as the finest lenses made for the screw mount Leica.
Could you tell me, if this is so, why your profile states :-
"In Sonnar lenses we trust. Other lenses are suspect. "
I don't think that Leitz produced a "Sonnar" type lens,all the Leitz lenses were based on the Gauss (modified) design.
Hello Raid,
This is a very interesting thread and I understand from your postings that you regard the classic Leica screw mount lenses, and in particular the 50mm's, as the finest lenses made for the screw mount Leica.
Could you tell me, if this is so, why your profile states :-
"In Sonnar lenses we trust. Other lenses are suspect. "
I don't think that Leitz produced a "Sonnar" type lens,all the Leitz lenses were based on the Gauss (modified) design.
I have stated many times that I started out with Zeiss lenses when I was using only SLR cameras and lenses. Then I added the Rolleiflex TLR as my MF cameras,and again, they sported Zeiss lenses.
I like Zeiss and also Leica lenses that I can afford. Both have great lenses in their stalls. I take what I can get.
I am not sure that Leica has the finest lenses for all type of lenses.
Hello Raid,
My only conclusion from your profile statement:-"In Sonnar lenses we trust. Other lenses are suspect", was that any design other than a Sonnar was suspect, which included all Leitz (modified Gauss) lens designs.
When I read your profile statement I found that it was in conflict and very confusing in the context of your opinions of Leitz lenses that you have given on this thread.
Regards,
In Statistics, there is a well known saying by someone ...
"In God we trust. All others must bring data"
I was inspired by this statement.
I have been leaning towards the Sonnar lenses since a year ago. Maybe next year I will prefer other lens designs.
This thread is about Leica 5cm lenses, and I do not recall stating anywhere that I favor Leica 5cm lenses over other 5cm lenses.
helenhill
10-10-2009, 17:39
Thank YOU Raid, Love Ya Mon Amie....
Now My INTEREST in the Summar & Summitar
has GREATLY SOARED
I want to try one...
Helen,
Both are inexpensive. The Summar is hard to get in very clean condition. The Summitar may be easier to find in very clean condition.
Raid is noted for his lens test here on RFF. It was his 50mm lens test he did a couple years back that made me go hunting for a J-3. I now can say I have a good example of one. Raid is also known for his love of sonner lenses, but nothing wrong with a thread on the ltm Leitz made lenses. This thread has reminded me that my 1945 50/3.5 Elmar has been neglected. Time to break it out and burn a few rolls with it. I was wondering & asked on a thread I started on coated & uncoated lenses when did they start coating elmar's & are the early post WWII lenses multi or single coated?
thomasw_
10-10-2009, 19:54
I am very late in coming to this thread but there's no doubt in my mind that the DR Summicron is my favourite all-round classic Leica lens. One of my all-time favourite lenses bar none. I had a beautiful copy and sold it...yet happily I just bought another beautiful copy with its goggles; if it proves to be as good as my first copy, I will never make the same mistake again :)
Thomas,
Have you ever tried a rigid Summicron? It is supposedly identical to the DR.
JustPlainBill
10-10-2009, 21:09
Hi Raid,
I generally use my 50 mm DR Sumicron because of its close focusing capability. I also have a rigid Sumicron and a non-Leica 50 mm f1.4 which I use when I need the extra f stop.
Cheeers,
JustPlainBill
Dear Raid,
I hope that I didn't to give you the impression that I was being over critical about your profile statement.I know that you prize both Leica and non-Leica optics but I just wanted to know your reasoning behind the statement.
Please return to your original profile statement .You are quite entitled to voice your own opinions and statements on this forum without making any changes.Your thoughts and opinions are greatly appreciated by all members of this forum including myself.
Long may you continue with your interesting postings and threads,
Kindest Regards,
PAN F
I changed my signature a little .,... take a look.
helenhill
10-11-2009, 06:14
RAID:
how bout
'it was a Dark & Stormy Night and the Sonnar Ruled'.... :cool:
'it was a Dark & Stormy Night and the Sonnar Ruled'
Once upon a time, a boy named Sonnar met a girl named Planar.
It was a relationship that did not last.
Sonnar went his way to create beautiful portraits while Planar better defined the corners.
The beauty of it all is that we have alternatives that can be to our advantage. I may carry a Leica 35mm lens and a Zeiss Sonnar 50mm lens ... etc.
...Sonnar was swept off his toes by a beautiful Russian girl in which they boarded a Sputnik & flew off to the planet Jupiter.;)
Any Jupiter lens babies born between 1952-1954 seem to have German eyes and Soviet bodies. It is a nice blend of lens genes.
And some of us technocrat types can't resist messing with nature, and have created in our labs lenses with Soviet eyes and German bodies. But the images still look Sonnar.
http://images108.fotki.com/v1583/photos/3/1126243/7872702/EPSN7136-vi.jpg
raid,
it was partly the images you made and posted using the summarit f1.5 which convinced me to look for one. i only know and use one other leica 50, but the summarit is a favorite. i sometimes think it is 2 or 3 lenses in one. i would certainly recommend it for those who like lenses away from the mainstream.
of the three images, the first is wide open and shot from the hip (unfocused). the second, at f2.8 - same day and lighting - is usably sharp. the third, again wide open, is quite sharp in the center but surrounded by interesting out of focus areas.
thanks for starting this thread. i'm learning a bunch about all the other 50s out there.
greetings from hamburg
rick
thomasw_
10-14-2009, 16:38
Thomas,
Have you ever tried a rigid Summicron? It is supposedly identical to the DR.
Raid -- Yes, I traded it away to Roland. It was a sweet specimen, too. I don't know who to believe on whether the rigid and dr versions are optically identical. But I do remember that rigid version very fondly. And the build quality?! O it was fine.
raid,
it was partly the images you made and posted using the summarit f1.5 which convinced me to look for one. i only know and use one other leica 50, but the summarit is a favorite. i sometimes think it is 2 or 3 lenses in one. i would certainly recommend it for those who like lenses away from the mainstream.
of the three images, the first is wide open and shot from the hip (unfocused). the second, at f2.8 - same day and lighting - is usably sharp. the third, again wide open, is quite sharp in the center but surrounded by interesting out of focus areas.
thanks for starting this thread. i'm learning a bunch about all the other 50s out there.
greetings from hamburg
rick
Hello Rick,
Thanks for reminding me to use that lens again!
Mine has some defects internally that result in the lens being very soft.
I always felt that the Leica 50mm lenses were special.
Greetings,
Raid -- Yes, I traded it away to Roland. It was a sweet specimen, too. I don't know who to believe on whether the rigid and dr versions are optically identical. But I do remember that rigid version very fondly. And the build quality?! O it was fine.
Thomas,
The rigid 50mm was my first RF 50mm lens, and I never sold it. It is special to me because it is from a certain era.
Erik van Straten
10-28-2009, 15:57
Summicron 50mm f/2 collapsible, Leica MP, Tmax400 printed on Ilford MGIV fb.
Erik.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3484/4050985397_ba893d2b20_o.jpg
What is it that makes you like using the collapsible Summicron, Erik? Is it the way it can render a B&W image ... or?
My recent favorite is the Summar, the only uncoated lens I have. I would like to see some of your summar color shots.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3576/3471554895_a069ca29dc_b.jpg
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