View Full Version : How Many Bracket When Shooting Slides
chris00nj
04-23-2009, 13:59
In mine and many opinions, slide film (KR, Velvia) can give some of the best possible shots in photography. However, you have to deal with fickle exposure. Metering off a slightly poor spot may give you poor results. Even the sunny 16 rule may not even be good enough.
So as a result, (and due to my relative inexperience with slide film) I sometimes under or over expose leaving me with crap results, which also leads me to consider bracketing. Do you all bracket often?
David William White
04-23-2009, 14:23
Yes, it often makes sense. If I'm in studio, or it's a nice sunny day and the sun is behind me, or if the light is even and low contrast, then I'm pretty confident. But if there is anything questionable about the lighting, I'll often bracket one stop on either side just to be safe. That's after center-weighted metering on the interesting bit and then recomposing the shot.
Seems landscapes often benefit from a little underexposure, especially if the sky is dramatic. Sometimes flowers look dreamier to me when they are overexposed by a stop.
Caveat: I don't scan much slide film, and I understand that there are often difficulties with shadow detail being lost and such. A projection would normally represent the material better than a scan.
Papa Smurf
04-23-2009, 14:41
It seems that I almost never get the exposure right unless I bracket. That statement is true with all of my cameras (6 currently working) and even if I use a light meter (a Gossen Luna pro). They just never seem to look "right" to me. Therefore, I bracket.
ChrisPlatt
04-23-2009, 15:12
If I'm sure I blew the first shot I'll shoot a second, but that's not bracketing. ;)
Chris
Actually, I've had excellent results scanning chromes.
photogdave
04-23-2009, 19:26
I chose sometimes because it depends on the camera.
With my Nikon F100, although it has a cool auto bracketing feature, I find the meter is so accurate that I only bracket if it's a very tricky exposure.
Same goes with My M4 and Gossen Digisix meter.
With my M6 I bracket like crazy!
Lilserenity
04-23-2009, 22:32
I don't think I ever did when I first started, more fool me as I ended up with enough underexposed Velvia 50 for a lifetime :)
However as the years have passed I have got to know the foibles and quirks of each film that I use. As a rule of thumb the only slide film that I shoot not at box speed is Velvia 50 which I shoot almost exclusively at ISO 32, this provides me with great results. On the odd occassion I will got with ISO 40 at sunset for drama but not often.
Kodachrome 64 I stick to box speed, ISO 80 results in very contrasty slides but too much so and ISO 50 loses some of the magic that keeps me shooting it -- basically I have shot enough now to know what happened the last time I shot something similar.
On the whole however, I have found the Leica MR meter which I use on my M2 to be fantastic, I'd even dare say that the exposure it recommends is probably that more spot on than even my Canon EOS 3 which could still throw out the odd result now and then -- not sure why, but the MR meter has worked fantastically for me, you just have to know the limitations.
In the end I basically never bracket unless it is a shot that is so critical I can't afford not to, in which case it's a 1/3rd of a stop each side.
Roger Hicks
04-23-2009, 23:04
Less and less. I used to bracket all the time but then I got better at exposure. I'll still bracket wildly for REALLY difficult shots. I was once photographing a backlit cross in a Greek Orthodox church, sun streaming through the window, no spot meter, no way to get close, and I went from -2 to +2 in half-stop rests: about a third of a roll of film. After all, I'd never see the same shot again. What surprised me was how many of the shots were usable.
When I first started, never. That's why I have lots of overexposed shots from my 'teens. The shutter on my Pentax SV was 'lazy', or maybe the meter was off. Either way, I didn't know enough to re-set the ASA dial to 40 or 50 (shooting Kodachrome 25, then a fairly new film, and MUCH better than the original Kodachrome 64).
There's a module on bracketing on my site:
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps%20bracket.html
complete with the pic described above.
Tashi delek,
R.
Michael Markey
04-23-2009, 23:22
Roger
I have seen that shot in the church and it is stunning. How I wish that I could emulate that ! The truth is that I don`t bracket much but perhaps I should do so more often.
Mike
Pickett Wilson
04-24-2009, 02:55
Back in the day, when I shot a lot of slides for publication, it only made sense to bracket a lot. With the narrow exposure range of slides, there was no point in taking a chance. It was also common practice to underexpose slides 1/3 stop for more color saturation.
Ah, the bad old days. ;)
35mmdelux
04-24-2009, 04:40
Been shooting chromes since 1971 and I never bracket. In fact until I attended photog school in 1990 I didn't even know what bracketing was.
I only bracket when I'm not "in the zone" or the lighting is so tricky that I'm not able to decipher which type of value placement would give the best results.
Other than that, I trust the meter and experience. Incident is really good, spot as well, and in camera usually doesn't fail. There's nothing to substitute for experience, but it's harder these days with the price of film and processing.
If it's a situation that I can go back to (like if in my city or neighborhood) I take my chances to see if I've improved in my EV guestimations. But if you're on a trip of a lifetime and will probably never go back, definitely bracket. Negatives are more forgiving, but you know immediately that you didn't get the shot with Chromes. YMMV.
wjlapier
04-24-2009, 07:13
Less and less. I used to bracket all the time but then I got better at exposure. I'll still bracket wildly for REALLY difficult shots. I was once photographing a backlit cross in a Greek Orthodox church, sun streaming through the window, no spot meter, no way to get close, and I went from -2 to +2 in half-stop rests: about a third of a roll of film. After all, I'd never see the same shot again. What surprised me was how many of the shots were usable.
When I first started, never. That's why I have lots of overexposed shots from my 'teens. The shutter on my Pentax SV was 'lazy', or maybe the meter was off. Either way, I didn't know enough to re-set the ASA dial to 40 or 50 (shooting Kodachrome 25, then a fairly new film, and MUCH better than the original Kodachrome 64).
There's a module on bracketing on my site:
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps%20bracket.html
complete with the pic described above.
Tashi delek,
R.
I didn't know that was your site. I just recently visited it. Learn something everyday.
I too never bracketed slides when I first got into photography. I was 15 and never took a class on photography so didn't know what bracketing was or why I should do it. Looking over some old Kodachromes from those days, I guess I got lucky, or that old Fujica SLR had a great meter for slides.
My most recent use of Velvia in Glacier National Park I did bracket. Can't say for sure how many stops or fractions there of, butI really want to nail the exposure. I was using a F5.
Well.. I could apply to the first three points I guess, but neither in that case I'd be really bracketing, just shooting another picture compensating manually for it.
Regardless of the meter (and I can ensure that a F6 meter is very reliable), I usually tend to underexpose slides of half stop and that's how I get the most pleasant colours to my taste, especially Velvia.
chris00nj
04-24-2009, 12:05
Less and less. I used to bracket all the time but then I got better at exposure. I'll still bracket wildly for REALLY difficult shots. I was once photographing a backlit cross in a Greek Orthodox church, sun streaming through the window, no spot meter, no way to get close, and I went from -2 to +2 in half-stop rests: about a third of a roll of film. After all, I'd never see the same shot again. What surprised me was how many of the shots were usable.
When I first started, never. That's why I have lots of overexposed shots from my 'teens. The shutter on my Pentax SV was 'lazy', or maybe the meter was off. Either way, I didn't know enough to re-set the ASA dial to 40 or 50 (shooting Kodachrome 25, then a fairly new film, and MUCH better than the original Kodachrome 64).
There's a module on bracketing on my site:
http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps%20bracket.html
complete with the pic described above.
Tashi delek,
R.
That's certainly a nice shot!
My next question was how much to bracket, but you already make the case for a 2/3 stop.
funkpilz
04-24-2009, 14:47
When I put the camera on a tripod, I bracket occasionally.
When I have put any thought into the picture before coming to the location my camera is in now, I always bracket. And I'm talking about the 10-frame kind of bracketing.
Can't stand it when promising shots come out underexposed by just one stop.
robert blu
05-13-2009, 06:33
I vote for sometimes, but it means really a very few times. When I used the F100, the Bessa R or the m7 I 'm satisfied in most of cases the result I get from the lightmeter. Only in very tricky case I do some bracketing, and ...film is expensive !
robert
Hi,
I find that poll interesting. A lot less people bracket than I thought. Considering the most chosen answer "Sometimes: If it an important shot." I would like to ask, why take a shoot in first place, if it not important? Wouldn't it be better not to take the shot when you know already at the shooting stage that is is unimportant? Saves you a lot of hassle when editing.
sepiareverb
05-13-2009, 12:02
I used to shoot slides commercially, and bracketed nearly every shot, though not always with wildlife, preferring to set the camera and clip test those. Easier as I'd usually shoot a whole roll or two of the same animal or group.
A small difference in exposure with some high contrast slide films can make all the difference- the 1/3 stop exposure compensation of the F4 & F100 made several images come alive over the years where a half a stop might not have.
What about the 'Never: I'm too lazy and don't believe the hype about slide' option? I never bracket, I guess I've always been very lucky.
Lilserenity
05-17-2009, 10:48
What about the 'Never: I'm too lazy and don't believe the hype about slide' option? I never bracket, I guess I've always been very lucky.
Ever shot Kodachrome? :D
If you have, jammy so and so!
Generally with Ektachrome, Provia and Astia I can be a stop out either side and still get a perfectly good slide. More than that and we start getting into dodgy territory. Velvia can be a bit of a pig but that's just in its nature as a contrasty super-saturated film.
Kodachrome however has a very fine line and I find even so much as half a stop in some light can render a slide completely blocked up in the shadows. Also just got back a load of slides that were for the most part bang on ISO 64 but the first 10 or so I had accidentally set the meter at 80 and particularly on the scanner -- they're good for one thing (pass me the bin) -- projected they have a little more detail but not much.
I don't usually bracket either but for crucial shots, it has to be done, I'd rather waste a couple of frames on something I am convinced will be worth nailing.
Anyway, just re-emphasising what I said a while back, it depends on the film for me!
ChrisPlatt
05-28-2009, 16:20
Kodachrome however has a very fine line and I find even so much as half a stop in some light can render a slide completely blocked up in the shadows.
I consider this an advantage of Kodachrome.
If you're off by a stop either way you won't even be able to tell what shot you missed! ;)
Chris
Well I shot a modest amount of Kodachrome, it isn't any worse in this regard than E6 films. Maybe it's the old rep dating back to the middle of last century, when the emulsion and the process were different.
I bracket very infrequently: a dependable incident meter and conscious evaluation of a scene help a lot.
I shoot essentially nothing but 100 ISO colour slide. Most of my shooting is street photography, and the only time I bracket is when I think I might get fooled by excessive reflection off the road or sidewalk. Otherwise I don't bother.
Harold Gough
11-29-2009, 05:35
I rarely bracket, as such, but repeat metering and re-shoot if I think the light has changed between initial metering and shutter release. A spot meter (not available on my rangefinders anyway, but an SLR can be used just to meter) reading off a grey card can vary with the angle of illumination/the metering lens, so I may alter settings once off the same reading.
Ronald M
12-01-2009, 15:58
I last used chromes with a commercial shoot 15 years ago. I did not bracket. It was still lifes of various dental equipment. I had to set up lights and a paper backdrop in the middle of a factory.
The slides were all perfect and well lit and the client loved them.
Use an incident light meter. reflected types including in camera require mental interpretation of subject brightness and color reflectivity. You will never get it right 100%.
I used to only shoot Kodachrome 25. I'd set the F3hp at ASA 32 and bracket when I had the opportunity. When I did bracket, it was -1, -1/2, +1/2. I was thrill when Velvia came out and went all the way up to ASA 50, wow 1/2 stop!
ChrisPlatt
12-06-2009, 10:01
Bracketing is a conspiracy to make film photography as boring as digital! ;)
Chris
david.elliott
12-06-2009, 17:09
Bracketing with slide film?! It is expensive enough as it is!
I actually never bracket. However I almost always use an incident light meter. Sometimes I take along a spot meter. My favorite film used to be K25, then K64, and recently I have completely switched to Fuji slide films. I have to admit that every now and then I miss the exposure by 1/3 to 1 stop but it does not happen sufficiently often to justify bracketing. I should also mention that I only use slides and B&W - no negative film and no digital. I also do not scan my slides. I use a slide projector instead.
Cheers
charjohncarter
12-06-2009, 17:56
I actually never bracket. However I almost always use an incident light meter. Sometimes I take along a spot meter. My favorite film used to be K25, then K64, and recently I have completely switched to Fuji slide films. I have to admit that every now and then I miss the exposure by 1/3 to 1 stop but it does not happen sufficiently often to justify bracketing. I should also mention that I only use slides and B&W - no negative film and no digital. I also do not scan my slides. I use a slide projector instead.
Cheers
Somebody. I'd like to meet.
I have taken thousands of slides with Fujichrome 50 and then with Velvia 50. I used a spotmeter,and I read several books on critical exposure, Then, I did not bracket. I hardly ever had to throw away slides for poor exposure.
At one time, I used color IR film which was the old process. Even then, I did not bracket. In my first roll of film, I got back 34 out of 36 IR slides that were beautiful. The pro-lab manager was surprised at such a success rate.
Luddite Frank
12-06-2009, 19:46
My dad shot hundreds (maybe in the thousands?) of Kodachromes in the 1960's, using a Nikon S. Somewhere along the way, he got a Seikonic L-86 meter. I doubt he ever did incident readings.
This was at a time when slides were "the only way to get a good color image".
All the slides were stored in their Kodak lab boxes as Dad never bought slide projector (!), therefore, I saw every shot, good or not so.
The majority of his shots were acceptable, in terms of exposure. Dad also tried to keep the sun at his back when possible; and most shots were of family at gatherings; not many "art shots".
I never heard him speak of "bracketing" when he was teaching me to use the Nikon, in my tender youth.
( Mom did it frequently, when she was taking photography courses from the local community college while I was in high school; she introduced me to the technique.)
For myself, I shot the majority of my slides in the mid-1980's, with my Retina IIIc, using the built-in selenium meter, using reflected readings.
I may have bracketed a few tough shots that were "irreplaceable", but the majority were "one frame and move on". Most of these were shots taken on two trips to Europe on summer band tours while in High school, so I guess my photos were more of the "snapshot" variety than "money shots", but I believe my "success rate" was probably at least 75% acceptable.
If I were shooting for money, I guess I'd have to develop a reliable system for slide exposure, and bracket when critical; trying to balance thrift of film against successful / saleable images.
Regards,
LF
nikon_sam
12-06-2009, 20:47
I've shot a ton of Velvia 50 with my Nikon FE and I've learned to trust that camera's meter...therefore not much bracketing...what I did do was shoot more than one frame...The best dup is another original...
Harold Gough
12-06-2009, 21:52
Bracketing with slide film?! It is expensive enough as it is!
Yes and no. I bought several hundred (long-dated) 36 exposure cassettes of Konica Minolta Centuria Chrome 100 just after it had been discontinued (in my opinion a crime against photography) at about 60P per film and still have plenty in my freezer. It will come as a shock when I have to go back to buying Provia.
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