View Full Version : Nikkor 5cm 1.4. To file or not to file?
I recently got me a Nikkor 5cm 1.4 LTM lens. As you know it can be modified to couple with later m-bodies to focus down to .7m, by filing down a section of the mount with the tread on it. I really do like the idea of closer coupled focus.
Question is - should i do it?
Yes, there is a chance I'll screw it up. But based on what I have seen in Roland's old post - its pretty straight forward job. Yet, there is always that - "what if?".
Also, what will it do to the value of the lens?
Any thoughts? I wonder if many people that have this lens had this done?
what is the serial number on the lens?
is it a Japan or Tokyo?
jim
Brian Sweeney
04-18-2009, 15:27
You want to be EXTREMELY careful about getting filings into the helical. I had that happen to a J-8, and it was miserable. I might do this with a Nikkor 5cm f2- but I got it for $50.
I found an easy way to make a J-3 focus closer, to 0.75m~0.8m or so. One that I was sent recently had the stop-screw missing from the helical. The lens focusses closer than 1m and a little farther than infinity. The advantage on the J-3: remove the helical from the mount and then file it down. Clean it, and then remount the helical.
what is the serial number on the lens?
is it a Japan or Tokyo?
jim
I'm not sure why this would make a difference? It's Japan.
You want to be EXTREMELY careful about getting filings into the helical. I had that happen to a J-8, and it was miserable. I might do this with a Nikkor 5cm f2- but I got it for $50.
I found an easy way to make a J-3 focus closer, to 0.75m~0.8m or so. One that I was sent recently had the stop-screw missing from the helical. The lens focusses closer than 1m and a little farther than infinity. The advantage on the J-3: remove the helical from the mount and then file it down. Clean it, and then remount the helical.
Whats the best way to make sure that mounting thread will be intact after filing, so lens still will mount Ok? - any special technique?
Brian Sweeney
04-18-2009, 17:12
I HAD to file the cam down on a CZJ Sonnar in LTM, the focus was way off and the optics module was frozen in the helical....
So, I stuffed as much paper into the area as possible to keep filings out, and used a rubber band around the RF cam and up against the helical threads. After filing, flood cleaned the residuals out with Ronsonol. I filed as gently as possible and it took a lot of time. But it did work. I thought about putting a layer of grease on it, but then the filings would just stick to it. If you could not get the grease off easily, the filings would be left in place. With the Nikkor, you can remove the optics module- but can't easily get the helical out of the mount. File slowly, and flush it out. I "chickened out" and did not do my nice LTM Nikkors.
hans voralberg
04-18-2009, 17:48
I filed it, using it just fine now. I first line it with cling film (food wrap) then tissue then file away, blowing the metal dust away every 30 sec or so.
I filed it, using it just fine now. I first line it with cling film (food wrap) then tissue then file away, blowing the metal dust away every 30 sec or so.
Any way you could post a photo of your final result - what that area looks like, that you had to file down?
hans voralberg
04-19-2009, 01:44
NOTICE: This is a horrendous job and I know it, it might induce heart attack if you love one of these lens. It works though. The SMALLER filed position is the correct one. Don't ask me why I filed away a whole chunk of it before realizing it's the wrong place.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_d9ncam2s7M8/Serxx9h6bSI/AAAAAAAAAmI/rumBZyJczNk/s912/P1000198.JPG
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_d9ncam2s7M8/SerxxzPskEI/AAAAAAAAAmQ/A3myX1Z_TDk/s912/P1000200.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_d9ncam2s7M8/SerxyDRaD3I/AAAAAAAAAmY/6LlO5RcGMJI/s912/P1000201.JPG
Oh - good - you fixed it. !
Now, your smaller cutout looks like it's the wrong position, based on what Roland posted. Your larger cut out seems to be the correct one. Yet you say its the other way around. Could you clarify, pls?
hans voralberg
04-19-2009, 03:10
Uhm I can't remember what Roland's looks like. When I look at it through the back of my M3 the smaller cut is where the rangefinder cam meet the lens helicoid.
Brian Sweeney
04-19-2009, 03:11
none of the photo's are showing up for me, get a 404 error.
For the cut-out position- have you tried putting the lens in the M-Adapter that you plan on using? Set the Nikkor to 0.7m and eyeball the position.
Well, I did it! Took me all of 30 min, and most of it was to cover the helicoid threads. Filing was easy, yet one has to be careful. Works great at the end! I went with a different approach - I made mine look like an M-mount cutout - works like a charm and looks nice I think. My cutout is at the same location as Roland's and your larger one. Well, here are the pics - just freshly done:
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu192/krosya/nikkor%205cm%20lens%20ltm/nikkor5clfocus1.jpg
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu192/krosya/nikkor%205cm%20lens%20ltm/nikkor5clfocus2.jpg
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu192/krosya/nikkor%205cm%20lens%20ltm/nikkor5clfocus3.jpg
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu192/krosya/nikkor%205cm%20lens%20ltm/nikkor5clfocus4.jpg
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu192/krosya/nikkor%205cm%20lens%20ltm/nikkor5clfocus5.jpg
hans voralberg
04-19-2009, 03:31
Lovely work! Have fun with it. I might need to check mine though because while it obviously move the focus patch until 0.7m at the wrong position the lens seems to front focus.
Brian Sweeney
04-19-2009, 03:32
That looks really good. We'll have to start a thread with "closer than 0.9m in LTM".
BTW: Add one point for the FSU cameras with "fingers" instead of rollers. My Zorki 3M can follow the modified J-3 and my LTM Nikkor 5cm f2 in much closer than the Roller based cameras. No filing required. The narrow RF follower makes it possible. "My Opinion" is that the FSU designers intended that as a feature. Some of the J-8's focus closer than what a roller-based pick up can do.
Lovely work! Have fun with it. I might need to check mine though because while it obviously move the focus patch until 0.7m at the wrong position the lens seems to front focus.
Thanks,
Now as far as yours goes - I assume you had your M3 adjusted to focus from 0.7m? Cause usually they focus from 1m. Also, I think it can only fit at "right" position, as lens will only go on one way, so cam will only hit it in one spot. Maybe you need to take a closer look at yours?
hans voralberg
04-19-2009, 03:44
Not sure if this is the reason but I'm using a 35-135 adapter not the 50, I'll try with the 50 tomorrow. And yes my M3 was adjusted to focus to 0.7m by CRR Luton. In any case I might not messed up that bad hehe.
BTW, does this lens has the Sonnar focus shift ? I'm not sure the focusing problem I have wide open is shift or front-focus.
I dont think it matters which adapter you use other than what framelines it'll trigger.
As far as Sonnar focus shift - I dont know from personal experience as I just got this lens a few days ago. But I'd expect it to have at least some of it.
PS. My LTM->M adapter is Leica 13.5cm
hans voralberg
04-19-2009, 03:54
Which is the same adapter, most strange. Huhm I will send it in to check when I go to HK next week then.
Brian Sweeney
04-19-2009, 05:04
The Nikkor 5cm F1.4 was optimized for F1.4 and close-up. I've got a test of it done in '91 by Pop photo. Interesting results, probably explained by the shift. F1.4 did better than F2, but by F4 all settles down. But, you have to enlarge quite a bit to see it.
In real life, it's never been a problem for me. I've used them for a long time.
Great job, Krosya !
You sure have noticed already, but if you leave the bracket off you loose the 1m "bump". No other function put pushing a little ball into the helical.
For anybody new to this: mark the location where you need to file with the M/LTM adapter on.
Cheers,
Roland.
The Nikkor 5cm F1.4 was optimized for F1.4 and close-up. I've got a test of it done in '91 by Pop photo. Interesting results, probably explained by the shift. F1.4 did better than F2, but by F4 all settles down. But, you have to enlarge quite a bit to see it.
In real life, it's never been a problem for me. I've used them for a long time.
Brian, do you have a scan of the article that you could put up?
Also, anyone has a link to the Nikon site for this lens? Do they have a page similar to Canon Camera Museum ?
I cannot wait to try out this lens. :)
Brian, do you have a scan of the article that you could put up?
Also, anyone has a link to the Nikon site for this lens? Do they have a page similar to Canon Camera Museum ?
I cannot wait to try out this lens. :)
Plenty of data on your lens, Ashwin :) :
http://ferider.smugmug.com/gallery/2196270_eVajg
Cheers,
Roland.
Plenty of data on your lens, Ashwin :) :
http://ferider.smugmug.com/gallery/2196270_eVajg
Cheers,
Roland.
Thanks Roland. :)
what's the size of the lens? I assume it's close to the Canon 50/1.5 in length? I am looking for a camera bag that will carry the M6TTL w/the canon or nikkor and some rolls of film.
Thanks Roland. :)
what's the size of the lens? I assume it's close to the Canon 50/1.5 in length? I am looking for a camera bag that will carry the M6TTL w/the canon or nikkor and some rolls of film.
It's tiny. Just a little bigger than the Canon. A little shorter than your DR Summicron. 43mm filter size. See the M3/Barnack photo in the gallery. The original hood reverses.
Cheers,
Roland.
It's tiny. Just a little bigger than the Canon. A little shorter than your DR Summicron. 43mm filter size. See the M3/Barnack photo in the gallery. The original hood reverses.
Thanks Roland. I think I will go with a crumpler or a similar shoulder bag. :)
After playing with my newly adjusted to coupled close focus Nikkor 5cm/1.4 I had another pleasant surprise. I dont have any other LTM lens that focuses coupled down to .7m, so whenever I used Canon 7 I always assumed that this body only focuses down to 1m. Well, after putting the Nikkor on it (after modification) I was happy to find out that on Canon 7 it still focuses down to .7m COUPLED! So very cool. I'm so glad I took a chance and modified my Nikkor!
tarullifoto
04-20-2009, 10:21
Whats the best way to make sure that mounting thread will be intact after filing, so lens still will mount Ok? - any special technique?
Prayer and fasting, I'd expect... Man, you guys are way more brave than I am... ;)
It really is easier than it sounds, I think. But not for everyone, I suppose. Yet well worth it.
Brian Sweeney
04-20-2009, 11:35
After playing with my newly adjusted to coupled close focus Nikkor 5cm/1.4 I had another pleasant surprise. I dont have any other LTM lens that focuses coupled down to .7m, so whenever I used Canon 7 I always assumed that this body only focuses down to 1m. Well, after putting the Nikkor on it (after modification) I was happy to find out that on Canon 7 it still focuses down to .7m COUPLED! So very cool. I'm so glad I took a chance and modified my Nikkor!
I've wondered about that myself- and I'm betting the Canon P and others do the same. As it is, one of mine follows the Nikkor 5cm f2 in to about 0.85m. It's wheel is a bit lower than the others.
I'm going to mod the J-3 for close focus, leave the nikkors though.
Brian Sweeney
04-20-2009, 12:30
That's why I like the J-3 Mod. The Helical can be removed from the mount, do the filing, clean it, then put the helical back in.
I have a spare 5cm F2 mount with bad (etched) optics. I will file that one before hacking an optics module from "something" onto it.
Burlap Jacket
04-22-2009, 08:05
My Nikkor 5cm/1.4 is currently with my repair guy (David Yau in Toronto) for a CLA. I'm still contemplating this mod. He says he could do it and even suggested that the RF would couple down to 1.5ft. Does that sound right? I tried to find some reference to the minimum focus distance for my M6TTL but haven't found anything.
Another issue a friend brought up is the liklihood of inaccurate framing through the vf due to paralax at close distance, something I hadn't considered.
My Nikkor 5cm/1.4 is currently with my repair guy (David Yau in Toronto) for a CLA. I'm still contemplating this mod. He says he could do it and even suggested that the RF would couple down to 1.5ft. Does that sound right? I tried to find some reference to the minimum focus distance for my M6TTL but haven't found anything.
Another issue a friend brought up is the liklihood of inaccurate framing through the vf due to paralax at close distance, something I hadn't considered.
Hi BJ,
if you let him do it, 2.3 ft is enough, that's as far as any Leica can do.
Reg. framing accuracy, on any Leica like the late M4p or younger, the 50mm framelines are calibrated for .7m min. focus (like with a newer Summicron). ZI and Bessa 50mm framelines are even smaller. If you use an M3, you can use the inner corners of the "slide frame", for anything closer than 1m. You will still feel the 1m bump, unless he explicitly disables it.
Thanks,
Roland.
monochromejrnl
04-22-2009, 09:02
It really is easier than it sounds, I think. But not for everyone, I suppose. Yet well worth it.
Congrats on the successful modification. Could you post two photos taken with your 'new' lens of the same subject focused at 1M and then focused at 0.7M to demonstrate the difference offered by this modification?
Burlap Jacket
04-22-2009, 09:52
Hi BJ,
if you let him do it, 2.3 ft is enough, that's as far as any Leica can do.
Reg. framing accuracy, on any Leica like the late M4p or younger, the 50mm framelines are calibrated for .7m min. focus (like with a newer Summicron). ZI and Bessa 50mm framelines are even smaller. If you use an M3, you can use the inner corners of the "slide frame", for anything closer than 1m. You will still feel the 1m bump, unless he explicitly disables it.
Thanks,
Roland.
Actually that bump was already disabled when I got the lens some time last year, unfortunately.
Thanks for the info on the minimum focus distance of the RF.
Like Monochromejournal I'd love to see comparisons with the lens wide open at 1m and .7m.
Ok,
I did a quick shoot with Nikkor 5cm/1.4 at 1m and .7m. All handheld, so may not be all that sharp, as I was leanning back and forth with lens set at each distance to achieve focus for these. Some bokeh there as well ;)
Hope this helps:
At f1.4 and at .7m:
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu192/krosya/nikkor%205cm%20lens%20ltm/n5cm07mwo.jpg
At f1.4 and 1m:
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu192/krosya/nikkor%205cm%20lens%20ltm/n5cm1mwo.jpg
Another version:
at .7m and f1.4:
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu192/krosya/nikkor%205cm%20lens%20ltm/n5cm07mwo2.jpg
and at 1m and f1.4:
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu192/krosya/nikkor%205cm%20lens%20ltm/n5cm1mwo2.jpg
another set - both at F2 (as it was easier to nail the focus)
at .7m:
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu192/krosya/nikkor%205cm%20lens%20ltm/n5cm07mf2.jpg
at 1m:
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu192/krosya/nikkor%205cm%20lens%20ltm/n5cm1mf2.jpg
More I play with this lens - more I like it and I'm glad I got Nikkor and not Canon 50/1.5 - not that Canon is a bad lens, but the fact that Nikkor can be adjusted to focus closer is really a HUGE benefit. Well at least to me.:
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu192/krosya/nikkor%205cm%20lens%20ltm/n5cm3.jpg
Thanks to Roland for the lens :)
here are a few test shots at f/1.4 and minimum focussing distance. using M6TTL and Arista 400 Premium in Xtol 1+3. forgive the poor scans, my scanner is just not up to it...
office essential tolls for working. :)
http://dl-client.getdropbox.com/u/87957/M6TTL_Arista400_023.jpg
crop of point of focus
http://dl-client.getdropbox.com/u/87957/M6TTL_Arista400_023_crop.jpg
a self shot
http://dl-client.getdropbox.com/u/87957/M6TTL_Arista400_018.jpg
Two more shots
@f/1.4
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3544/3503624418_3a993fdfd3.jpg
@f/2
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3660/3503622736_4268c6060b.jpg
Brian Sweeney
05-05-2009, 01:49
These images settle it.
I'm filing down the J-3 mount for close-focussing. I'm pretty sure to get 0.8m out of it. The helical is already missing the close-focus stop, and gets in that close. Now I just need to take off some of the mount so the RF wheel can follow it.
Working as spec'ed Ashwin. Nobody can complain about that bokeh, don't you think ?
And good to meet you. Cute portrait (of the little one that is :) ).
Cheers,
Roland.
Working as spec'ed Ashwin. Nobody can complain about that bokeh, don't you think ?
And good to meet you. Cute portrait (of the little one that is :) ).
Cheers,
Roland.
Thanks Roland. The lens is just perfect. Now I need another body to accomodate the Canon. :P
The little one is my fav model every weekend. He goes completely still when the camera is pointed at him. :)
I cant believe it - Roland, you sold your Nikkor 5cm 1.4? Why? And what do you have now for a 50mm lens?
I cant believe it - Roland, you sold your Nikkor 5cm 1.4? Why? And what do you have now for a 50mm lens?
I had two, Krosya. Kept the Tokyo version.
The other 50s I still have in M/LTM are Canon 50/1.4 and Summicron 50/2 v4. And that's it :)
Cheers,
Roland.
So, I guess you didnt like Hexanon, huh? ;)
So, I guess you didnt like Hexanon, huh? ;)
I liked it. No real rationale about picking the cron over it, except finding a good deal on the cron.
Cheers,
Roland.
Waking the thread a bit.
I have only recently received a nice Jupiter 3 that I plan to sue with a R3A (once I get my hands on a nice grey one - not so easy).
I have only found in this thread that the J3 can also be made to focus closer - in the similar way than the Nikkor 50/1.4. However - even from the pictures posted it is not fully clear to me WHICH part (and how wide & deep) form the rim has to be filled away.
Could somebody post a picture of an adjusted J-3 - with an explanation how exactly should one proceed?
Doesn't work with a J3, Sorry.
But Brian seemed to have positive experience. Maybe he could comment ...
Brian Sweeney
09-22-2009, 11:20
You will have to join ziforums.com to see the attachments.
http://ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=281
Close-focus mod for the Jupiter-3. Gets in closer than the 1M minimum, like 0.85m or so.
Overall, I believe this mod is worthwhile. J-3's are inexpensive, fast, and decent Sonnar lenses. Getting it to focus "just a bit closer" adds to its qualities.
Wide-Open at F1.5, at its new close-focus of ~2.5ft.
http://camwk.com/picture.php?albumid=64&pictureid=704
Stopped down a little.
http://camwk.com/picture.php?albumid=64&pictureid=706
And mid-range.
http://camwk.com/picture.php?albumid=64&pictureid=705
http://camwk.com/picture.php?albumid=64&pictureid=707
Focus at infinity is also good.
Brian, thanks a lot. It seems to be quite easy - I will definitely give it a try (once I have SOME camera and will be sure that my lens works properly)
I will report on the results later.
Are all Nikkor 1.4 ltm candidates for this mod, or only specific versions of it?
Are there better versions than others?
Thanks!
It will work on 50/2 and 50/1.4 copies which have a close focusing scale, Michael. Which most of them do. Also have a look at the original thread on the subject:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56962
IMO, when you file, you should leave smooth corners for the RF roller when screwing the lens in.
Roland.
Thanks Roland
I am starting to think about replacing my canon 1.4 by a modified nikkor 1.4.
The canon is a great lens, but I was recently disappointed by its level of distortion.
The Nikkor seems to be the "best of all worlds": LTM+ M AND close focusing.
I will have to compare it to the Canon before I let this gem go.
alexnotalex
08-09-2010, 06:47
Hi everybody, very interesting article. I have a f2 Tokyo I'm excited about.
Has anybody tried the filing trick with a CanonP body? (screw mount)
Looking at it myself I can't decide if it's a good plan or not...
many thanks,
alexnotalex
08-09-2010, 12:07
Hi everybody, very interesting article. I have a f2 Tokyo I'm excited about.
Has anybody tried the filing trick with a CanonP body? (screw mount)
Looking at it myself I can't decide if it's a good plan or not...
many thanks,
Guess I should have read the chain more carefully... but still unsure with the P...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krosya
After playing with my newly adjusted to coupled close focus Nikkor 5cm/1.4 I had another pleasant surprise. I dont have any other LTM lens that focuses coupled down to .7m, so whenever I used Canon 7 I always assumed that this body only focuses down to 1m. Well, after putting the Nikkor on it (after modification) I was happy to find out that on Canon 7 it still focuses down to .7m COUPLED! So very cool. I'm so glad I took a chance and modified my Nikkor!
I've wondered about that myself- and I'm betting the Canon P and others do the same. As it is, one of mine follows the Nikkor 5cm f2 in to about 0.85m. It's wheel is a bit lower than the others.
I'm going to mod the J-3 for close focus, leave the nikkors though.
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