View Full Version : Oly showing a m4/3...but its still a secret!
This image on dc watch is interesting http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/parts/image_for_link/170840-10552-2-1.html
looks like they might have a more full sized type body under that cloth, and that compact m4/3...lets just hope something is said sooner rather then later!
Rick Waldroup
03-28-2009, 04:13
I bet those are lenses under that blue cloth.
I simply love the design of the camera. I shoot the 4/3 system and have been putting off getting into the micro system until Olympus showed us what they have. Hopefully, it will not be too much longer.
Indeed! I didnt think it could be lenses, though its obvious one of the things there is a lens. I will have my Panasonic G1 sold by this monday and I will be looking forward to this Olympus thing. I like the idea of the m4/3 system but dislike the idea of the images being manhandled by the G1's software. Lets hope Olympus takes a more conservative approach.
Well, you have to hand it to Olympus -- they are doing a spectacular job of keeping our attention, our tongues hanging out, droplets of drool starting to form.
Aside from some of the other wish list items enumerated on RFF and other forums, you know what I would want?
ISO 64 ... 50 would be even better.
Tom Diaz
03-29-2009, 05:58
I bet those are lenses under that blue cloth.
I simply love the design of the camera. I shoot the 4/3 system and have been putting off getting into the micro system until Olympus showed us what they have. Hopefully, it will not be too much longer.
I decided not to deny myself, arguing (with myself) that if micro 4/3 turns out well for me I would always want a second body, so I could have an Olympus too. So go ahead!
The G1 is great with my M lenses, my couple of 4/3 lenses, and its own nice kit lens. The G1 kit lens is on the slow side for general shooting, which for me includes a lot of dim light. The 4/3 Summilux (25mm f/1.4) gives great results! The AF makes noise when it's turned on, but it does focus very well. Of course, it is a very large lens, making me appreciate putting on a 28mm f/2 Summicron instead. I don't do telephoto shooting very often, but I will also enjoy the 75mm and 90mm Summicrons at those times! The 75mm is a particularly nice-looking and nice-feeling match.
I'll add my voice to those who love the manual focus assist in the electronic viewfinder. (And it comes up automatically with adapted 4/3 lenses!) It may be possible to focus M lenses more accurately than ever before. Then we'll know we can blame the sensor (and the lack of image stabilization) if we aren't satisfied with the images. Just in little tests in my living room, I can see the jitters in otherwise completely sharp pictures taken with the 28mm Summicron. So let's hope we can crank up the ISO a bit and be happy.
[Thinking...] OK, I was curious and have attached the result. I set the ISO to 1600 and photographed this screen from 4 feet away with a 28mm Summicron using the MF assist feature. (Exposure 1/640 at f/2, ISO 1600.) You can judge for yourself. Also attached is a picture of one of my kitties taken with the 25mm Summilux. That exposure and the focus were automatic. (Exposure was 1/60 at f/1.4, ISO 100.)
I'm happy so far!
principe azul
03-29-2009, 08:09
been putting off getting into the micro system until Olympus showed us what they have. Hopefully, it will not be too much longer.
Hope so too, although by the time it comes out, it may be that the Samsung NX is in the works. I like the Samsung sensor size (less severe crop factor for wides) but they look to be going the fake-pentaprism route that's put me off the G1.
digitalintrigue
03-29-2009, 08:13
When you have nothing to show, it makes sense to create anticipation, if only to keep people on the fence from buying the Panasonic. :)
I don't care if the Oly has a fake prism or not, as long as at least one of the models has the full G1 feature set plus image stabilization. Otherwise there is no reason to get an Oly for me...
The "carrot" Oly out in June
A second Oly somewhat like the Panasonic G1 in December
Panasonic out with a compact M4/3rds late this year.
Counting the new GH1, that's five micro 4/3rd options by EOY 2009, plus the new small Samsung interchangable lens APS-C. Watch both P&S and DSLR sales get "hammered", methinks.
Bah....and here I thought a camera announcement was coming and it turned out that all that was coming was a e420 with some firmware changes called the e450. Was it really nessesary to do the minor upgrade on that camera a third time?
Bah....and here I thought a camera announcement was coming and it turned out that all that was coming was a e420 with some firmware changes called the e450. Was it really nessesary to do the minor upgrade on that camera a third time?
When it went from e-410 to e-420 it had an ergonomic redesign with the grip, dials and buttons, and also had the sensor from the e-3 put in, which has more dynamic range than the e-410 sensor.
Watch in the coming couple of months, there will be another announcement.
The first m4/3rds camera (that silver one with the orange grip) is rumored to be available in June or July
The first m4/3rds camera (that silver one with the orange grip) is rumored to be available in June or July
I bet they will be hard to find for a while too, seems like demand is high for this type of product. As long as Olympus can resist the temptation to put a zoom like the one on the G1 on it then it should do fine. While a tiny zoom would be nice, I dont want the lens to be 3 times the size of the camera!
The 14-45 is not a large zoom at all--very very light--a bit over 6 oz.---and only 2.3 x 2 inches. You might mean the 45-200 which is 4 inches x 2+ inches.
Diane.
The 14-45 is not a large zoom at all--very very light--a bit over 6 oz.---and only 2.3 x 2 inches. You might mean the 45-200 which is 4 inches x 2+ inches.
Diane.
yes I know, I had a G1, just sold it. But imagine that lens sticking off something the size of a Ricoh GRD or Sigma DP1 and you will get what im talking about.
I sure hope Olympus gets off their ass and shows us this compact finally, my GRD is getting sicker every day and a replacement is very much due!
dazedgonebye
04-02-2009, 08:48
yes I know, I had a G1, just sold it. But imagine that lens sticking off something the size of a Ricoh GRD or Sigma DP1 and you will get what im talking about.
I sure hope Olympus gets off their ass and shows us this compact finally, my GRD is getting sicker every day and a replacement is very much due!
A fast prime would make it a compelling camera. Small as it could be for carrying around and accepting larger lenses for other work.
back alley
04-02-2009, 09:19
i have a feeling that there are gonna be a lot of disappointed folks out there when oly releases it's camera.
dazedgonebye
04-02-2009, 09:19
i have a feeling that there are gonna be a lot of disappointed folks out there when oly releases it's camera.
Why's that?
back alley
04-02-2009, 09:31
Why's that?
i base it just on a gut feeling, no evidence whatsoever.
dazedgonebye
04-02-2009, 09:37
That Oly body coupled with Panasonic's 20mm f/1.7 pancake could be the most versatile digital compact thus far--and you'll even be able to change lenses!
Yep.
I'm going to be torn between what I assume will be the higher image quality and better (from my pov) crop factor of the Samsung offering and the awsome little form factor of the Oly.
i base it just on a gut feeling, no evidence whatsoever.
How did you do on jury duty?:D
nightfly
04-02-2009, 10:23
Someone is always disappointed here. Some of it is the finicky nature of camera geeks and some of it is that there are so many compromises in making a mass market product that one of them is going to strike someone as a deal breaker.
For me it's probably that the prime lenses they are talking about with the crop factor aren't going to be wide enough. If the rumored 20mm is the widest prime, that's 40mm equivalent and that's too much for me. Whatever I'm happy with my Leica w a 35 Summicron and a 28 CV and my GR1.
The film cameras most of us love have 40 or 50 years of development ahead of them so they are pretty close to perfect while the digital stuff has only been around for 10 or 15 years and the sensor technology keep changing. Besides the light sensitivity, film was/is relatively stable allowing manufacturers to focus on the camera and lenses.
Still that orange Oly looks more interesting than anything else I've seen in the digital realm, so perhaps I'll buy one and not sell it after a few months like I've done with every other digital I've bought.
xayraa33
04-02-2009, 11:03
i have a feeling that there are gonna be a lot of disappointed folks out there when oly releases it's camera.
At first I thought because Joe has the Epson Rd's, he is saying this, then I remembered that this is no impediment for Joe.
digitalintrigue
04-02-2009, 11:15
I'd be very surprised if Oly comes out with a variation of the Photokina/PMA mockup if they don't bring out some sort of pancake prime(s)...that form factor doesn't make a lot of sense with a zoom (what's the point of a pocketable interchangeable lens camera if you have the take the lens off to pocket it?)
Plus, Oly has a history with pancakes, such as the OM 40/2, the 4/3 25mm and the 38/2.8 Pen F lenses.
I'd be very surprised if Oly comes out with a variation of the Photokina/PMA mockup if they don't bring out some sort of pancake prime(s)...that form factor doesn't make a lot of sense with a zoom (what's the point of a pocketable interchangeable lens camera if you have the take the lens off to pocket it?)
Plus, Oly has a history with pancakes, such as the OM 40/2, the 4/3 25mm and the 38/2.8 Pen F lenses.
Let's hope for something less disappointing than the pancake 25.
Al Patterson
04-02-2009, 17:24
When you have nothing to show, it makes sense to create anticipation, if only to keep people on the fence from buying the Panasonic. :)
I don't care if the Oly has a fake prism or not, as long as at least one of the models has the full G1 feature set plus image stabilization. Otherwise there is no reason to get an Oly for me...
Remember the Osborne II?
back alley
04-02-2009, 18:02
At first I thought because Joe has the Epson Rd's, he is saying this, then I remembered that this is no impediment for Joe.
if the oly turns out to be the drf that we all hope for, i'll be in line like everybody else.
the mystery for me is why folks dislike the g1 so much. it's really comfortable in the hand and small enough to carry forever. and it's so damn much fun!!!
joe
That little thing oly is showing will not be the drf everyone is hoping for simply because it is not an rf. It is a compact digital camera and does not pretend to be anything else.
Oh and for the record I sold my G1 off because of it's heavy handed adjustments to the raw images that did not fit into my workflow. I like that things like lens distortion and aberations were taken care of for me but the panasonic look was so baked into the raw's that it turned me off to the camera.
I too think it would be pointless to stick a big zoom lens on a pocket camera that requires removing the lens to be a pocket camera. Also I wonder how the panasonic lenses will get on with the oly bodies as pana is taking a "half and half" way of lenses with heavy in camera correction. Might see the true colors of these lenses on a oly body.
As for the new NX platform....pass, still too large to be a pocket camera.
Yep.
I'm going to be torn between what I assume will be the higher image quality and better (from my pov) crop factor of the Samsung offering and the awsome little form factor of the Oly.
Crop factor isn't an issue with 4/3rds stuff because it already is full frame. They make their lenses for the sensor size, so in truth there's no disadvantages as there would be, say, adapting a nikon F mount lens to the 4/3rds system, where it's actual focal length doubles.
I've got my money on the Olympus being a way better camera than the samsung - olympus are optical perfectionists, and they're going out of their way to make the correlation in peoples heads between the original pen and the new m4/3rds pen... I'd say there will be definitely be some small and amazing prime lenses.
As food for thought, olympus actually has a patent on a 12mm 1.4 4/3rds lens. Why they haven't put it into production yet I'm not sure, although I've caught wind in a few of the recent interviews of a "lets make some high quality zoom and cover our bases for most users for our new system" attitude. In one of the latest interviews (i think on dpreview) they stated they have a list of zuiko digital prime lenses they are going to manufacture one by one.
I feel exactly the same way as Back Alley - I always remember the Steve Jobs quote where he mentions that at car shows, the prototype always whets your appetite for its bold, aggressive design - and when it finally shows up as an actual product, it has been radically compromised.
"Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory," is what he called it, I believe.
I'm also excited about the form of the Oly compact... but my gut tells me the actual product will underdeliver... and my wallet will be better for it.
If they can stop it clipping highlights its a possibility,4:3 is a nice vertical format,if not its a DP2.To be honest its going to have to be pretty damn brilliant for me not to get the DP2,its heart feels analogue...........Neil.
Bobfrance
04-02-2009, 23:53
As food for thought, olympus actually has a patent on a 12mm 1.4 4/3rds lens. Why they haven't put it into production yet I'm not sure, although I've caught wind in a few of the recent interviews of a "lets make some high quality zoom and cover our bases for most users for our new system" attitude. In one of the latest interviews (i think on dpreview) they stated they have a list of zuiko digital prime lenses they are going to manufacture one by one.
If this comes to pass i will be a very happy man. :)
nightfly
04-03-2009, 05:40
If they do have a bunch of primes, they'd do well to release them all rather than dribble them out since I would assume the decision to keep producing the body is made by how well they sell initially. I'm sure a lot of purchasing decisions will be made by what lenses are available when it's released. In this economy I wouldn't bet on Olympus surviving long enough to wait for the lens I want but if I could get something in a 12mm -17mm prime when it's released, I might bite.
Joe,
I agree with you. I haven't had more fun with a camera than I have with the G1 in a very long time. I love my M8 and other cameras but I have been reaching for the G1 a lot lately.
For a first generation product I think Panasonic did a fantastic job.
Kent
if the oly turns out to be the drf that we all hope for, i'll be in line like everybody else.
the mystery for me is why folks dislike the g1 so much. it's really comfortable in the hand and small enough to carry forever. and it's so damn much fun!!!
joe
Bobfrance
04-03-2009, 05:51
If they do have a bunch of primes, they'd do well to release them all rather than dribble them out since I would assume the decision to keep producing the body is made by how well they sell initially. I'm sure a lot of purchasing decisions will be made by what lenses are available when it's released. In this economy I wouldn't bet on Olympus surviving long enough to wait for the lens I want but if I could get something in a 12mm -17mm prime when it's released, I might bite.
Certainly from my point of view; if I can get good/wide (& fairly small) primes I'll stay with the 4/3 system. If not I'll migrate to whatever system offers it.
digitalintrigue
04-03-2009, 05:52
Oh and for the record I sold my G1 off because of it's heavy handed adjustments to the raw images that did not fit into my workflow. I like that things like lens distortion and aberations were taken care of for me but the panasonic look was so baked into the raw's that it turned me off to the camera.
This appears to be contradictory. On the one hand, you didn't like the 'heavy handed adjustments to the raw images' but on the other hand you liked the distortion and CA to be taken care of for you.
I'm curious what other heavy handed adjustment to the raw images is occurring.
Also, I'm curious what the 'Panasonic look' is. If you were presented with a series of photos taken by a range of different cameras, could you point out the ones taken with Panasonic?
digitalintrigue
04-03-2009, 05:55
If they do have a bunch of primes, they'd do well to release them all rather than dribble them out
I hope so too, but maybe they want to spread out the development costs a bit, considering the economy. I certainly am not in a position to snap up a bunch of lenses all at once. ;)
back alley
04-03-2009, 06:21
This appears to be contradictory. On the one hand, you didn't like the 'heavy handed adjustments to the raw images' but on the other hand you liked the distortion and CA to be taken care of for you.
I'm curious what other heavy handed adjustment to the raw images is occurring.
Also, I'm curious what the 'Panasonic look' is. If you were presented with a series of photos taken by a range of different cameras, could you point out the ones taken with Panasonic?
i wonder the same thing...
i am getting pretty good feedback on the good looking black & whites that i get from the g1.
and for the first time in a long time i am enjoying some colour images that are coming from the g1 as well.
i realize that you can't please everyone with one camera but the g1 seems harmless and fun to me.
joe
dazedgonebye
04-03-2009, 06:48
Crop factor isn't an issue with 4/3rds stuff because it already is full frame. They make their lenses for the sensor size, so in truth there's no disadvantages as there would be, say, adapting a nikon F mount lens to the 4/3rds system, where it's actual focal length doubles.
I've got my money on the Olympus being a way better camera than the samsung - olympus are optical perfectionists, and they're going out of their way to make the correlation in peoples heads between the original pen and the new m4/3rds pen... I'd say there will be definitely be some small and amazing prime lenses.
As food for thought, olympus actually has a patent on a 12mm 1.4 4/3rds lens. Why they haven't put it into production yet I'm not sure, although I've caught wind in a few of the recent interviews of a "lets make some high quality zoom and cover our bases for most users for our new system" attitude. In one of the latest interviews (i think on dpreview) they stated they have a list of zuiko digital prime lenses they are going to manufacture one by one.
Yes, yes...I've heard that before. 4/3rds is already full frame. I'm sure that's true if we limit our world to 4/3rds lenses. I'm hoping not to be restricted to "native" lenses because I haven't seen any indication that they're going to make the lenses I need/want.
The 12mm heliar on a 1.5 crop camera (full frame Samsung universe if you like) would make a wonderful 18mm prime in my mental universe. A 12mm panasonic would not fill that bill for me, being 24mm in my mental universe, even if they should happen to make it.
All the ff/crop mental gyrations aside, I want certain field of view options. The larger sensor in the samsung is more likely to allow me to have those options.
All that being said, the very small form factor of the Oly, should it come to pass and be a good implementation, might be compelling enough to sway me in that direction.
It's good having options.
This appears to be contradictory. On the one hand, you didn't like the 'heavy handed adjustments to the raw images' but on the other hand you liked the distortion and CA to be taken care of for you.
I'm curious what other heavy handed adjustment to the raw images is occurring.
Also, I'm curious what the 'Panasonic look' is. If you were presented with a series of photos taken by a range of different cameras, could you point out the ones taken with Panasonic?
When I was in college one of our teachers worked with us to show the differences in different optical systems. He expected us to be able to tell apart a Canon digital photo and a Canon digital photo taken with a Yashica lens, then the same photo and lens but with a Nikon. We got to know the qualities of the different cameras and lenses kind of the way people get to know film, which is kind of why he showed us that because he also worked with us in the first year black and white photography class to tell apart different films. Now I know someone here is going to get all huffy and puffy about how its impossible to tell apart these things and so on but....too bad.
And what I mean by heavy handed adjustments are things like color and tones and sharpness are so heavily influenced by the camera and baked into the raw photos that its was difficult to work with for us. We have a very well laid down work flow going on here and the G1 kind of screws with the entire process. I have talked with two different imaging experts about this and they both come to the same conclusion that there is some pretty influential software stuff going on, not to say there isnt with every digital camera you use but the G1's is a lot stronger then say a Canon 5D. If you still dont believe do look at this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/avotius/3311871154/
Now dont get me wrong here, the G1 is a great camera if you got it for what it is, but it ended up not fitting into my processes and what I thought I wanted it for so I sold it, that's all!
digitalintrigue
04-03-2009, 07:21
I'd be interested in seeing specifics of how color and tone and sharpness are 'baked into the raw photos.' This is counter to the entire concept of raw. Color and tone and sharpness are most certainly 'baked' differently with every camera when it comes to JPEG.
I looked at your ISO and lens comparisons but this doesn't tell me anything about what's going on.
What exactly is your workflow and how is it being 'screwed with?'
No camera is going to be perfect for everyone of course. I'm just looking for specifics, as these vague descriptions don't really tell me anything. Is there something I can try on my G1 that will reveal what exactly you are talking about?
When I was in college one of our teachers worked with us to show the differences in different optical systems. He expected us to be able to tell apart a Canon digital photo and a Canon digital photo taken with a Yashica lens, then the same photo and lens but with a Nikon. We got to know the qualities of the different cameras and lenses kind of the way people get to know film, which is kind of why he showed us that because he also worked with us in the first year black and white photography class to tell apart different films. Now I know someone here is going to get all huffy and puffy about how its impossible to tell apart these things and so on but....too bad.
And what I mean by heavy handed adjustments are things like color and tones and sharpness are so heavily influenced by the camera and baked into the raw photos that its was difficult to work with for us. We have a very well laid down work flow going on here and the G1 kind of screws with the entire process. I have talked with two different imaging experts about this and they both come to the same conclusion that there is some pretty influential software stuff going on, not to say there isnt with every digital camera you use but the G1's is a lot stronger then say a Canon 5D. If you still dont believe do look at this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/avotius/3311871154/
Now dont get me wrong here, the G1 is a great camera if you got it for what it is, but it ended up not fitting into my processes and what I thought I wanted it for so I sold it, that's all!
Well, I went to the link you provided; all the guy says is that his G1 + kit lens performed as well as premium Leica glass, and was therefore disturbed about this, enough so as to suspect that other shenanigans might be going on behind the scenes with the RAW file. But, like you, he was entirely non-specific, merely paranoid.
Myself, I'm beginning to suspect that the real issue here is that the G1 has upset the established order of things, in that final image quality no longer has a direct relationship to cost. There're lots of legacy glass out there that could suddenly depreciate under this new paradigm. "Follow the money," to quote some Oliver Stone character. :cool:
~Joe
Richbuckle
04-03-2009, 10:47
I'm with Avotius. People will swear endlessly that you won't be able to tell a certain brand of film or film/digital from a blind test. 9/10 times it's fairly easy to do so. The medium taking the image has just as much influence as the chosen lens. Thus, people became unexcited by the G1 when the shots from the kit lens (a rather fine kit zoom lens, but still) were as good as shots using adapters and superb prime lenses.
back alley
04-03-2009, 11:04
i'm not unexcited :)
i have no need to use my m lenses on it now that i have the rd1 but of and by itself, it's still a great image maker.
joe
digitalintrigue
04-03-2009, 11:59
Heh. "I just found out my $200 kit lens is as good as a $2000 Leica lens stopped down! Time to throw out the camera."
Is that what I'm reading here?
If that's the case, where are all the 28/2 Ultron users who are now 'unexcited' by the M8 because the 28/2 performs as good as the 28/2 Summicron stopped down? ;)
imajypsee
04-25-2009, 16:00
and I think the G1 is looking more like an option; what I don't like is the clunky looking "form" of the camera. I already have clunky looking DSLRs :D
Mary in SW Florida, USA
Tom Diaz
04-25-2009, 18:43
Joe,
I agree with you. I haven't had more fun with a camera than I have with the G1 in a very long time. I love my M8 and other cameras but I have been reaching for the G1 a lot lately.
For a first generation product I think Panasonic did a fantastic job.
Kent
I completely agree.
digitalintrigue
04-25-2009, 18:46
And now Pana is shipping *two* micro 4/3 cameras, before Oly has its first...
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