View Full Version : Looking for a really bad film
I know this might sound odd, but I will be attending an event this summer that I had a flash of inspiration for turning in to a small photo project. Even though I shoot black and white 99.9 percent of the time, I think the best film for the job will be the worst c41 color film I can find. I am looking for a film that does a really horrible job of accurate color rendition, a film that looks muddy and murky and generally horrible. Also, I need something that is in date, as I will be processing these at a minilab, so I won't be able to have them pushed. What are your recommendations for the worst color film on the market? Are there any bad ones on the market these days?
FrozenInTime
03-22-2009, 02:56
Underexpose the new Kodak Ektar 100 and your there !
ClaremontPhoto
03-22-2009, 02:57
There is no really bad modern film.
However, some out of date stuff, developed in a regular minilab (not pushed or anything) may give you what you're after.
Another route is out of date E6 slide film 'cross-processed' as C41 color film in a minilab. Just hand it in and don't make a big thing out of it.
mr_phillip
03-22-2009, 03:11
Yeah, I agree that there isn't any really 'bad' film left on the market anymore - the folks who used to pump that stuff out are now selling bad digital cameras or bad digital accessories. You could try trawling the 'net for some obscure Chinese or Indian film, but that's likely to be a real crapshoot and, from what I hear, some of that stuff's actually pretty ok.
OoD stock would be my preferred option.
antiquark
03-22-2009, 03:15
I've had some bad results with Superia 800. If you set your exposure to manual, you might get a few murky underexposed pics. But even when properly exposed, there's lots of grain.
I think that a big part of the quality is who's developing it. Ask around, find out which local minilab is prone to scratching your negatives or otherwise screwing up your prints. They are also probably using old chemicals, which will degrade the pictures even more.
Good luck! (Or should I say, bad luck!) :)
Maxapple88
03-22-2009, 03:25
For b/w I'd recommend Lucky 100, its atrocious. I don't know any suitable c41.
hmmm, seeing as how i have been burned a couple times on expired film, and i really don't like xpro, i might be out of luck on the really bad color rendition, but really severe grain might work. Which color film has the most atrociously huge grain?
ETA: also, (forgive my ignorance of color film), what is the effect of using indoor light balanced color film outside in natural light?
antiquark
03-22-2009, 03:43
ETA: also, (forgive my ignorance of color film), what is the effect of using indoor light balanced color film outside in natural light?
Check this group:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/tungstenfilm/pool/
Basically you'll get a blue color cast for outdoor shots.
Dave Wilkinson
03-22-2009, 03:45
The posts here get stranger!....most people are striving to improve their work, and you want advice on turning out crap!...do you have a Holga or Lomo? -or maybe a shoebox and pinhole? :confused:
FrozenInTime
03-22-2009, 03:45
Which color film has the most atrociously huge grain?
Fuji 800 is considered to be the best ISO 800 color neg fillm, but underexposure (or exposing as if it was digital with a highlight bias) is not a good idea ).
The biggest grain I ever saw was on the now discontinued Konica 3200.
The posts here get stranger!....most people are striving to improve their work, and you want advice on turning out crap!...do you have a Holga or Lomo? -or maybe a shoebox and pinhole? :confused:
I do have a holga, but I don't use it in a 'lomography' style, which I think is a total scam, and I will be using my Leica for this project. I want bad looking film because I will be doing portraits of cosplayers at a comic book convention, and I want a film that will give the feel of a comic book panel, with slightly out of whack colors and/or almost a pop art/pointillism feel from large grain.
mr_phillip
03-22-2009, 03:49
what is the effect of using indoor light balanced color film outside in natural light?
Pretty much the same as leaving a blue filter on your lens.
Actually, I think antiquark hit the nail on the head - the key for the look you're after is the development. Why not just try some stock C41 such as Superia 400 and either get it developed at a **** lab, or invest in a Tetenal C41 kit and develop it badly yourself (a friend of mine uses the latter, and the results (http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=tetenal%20c41&w=76964582%40N00) can be quite cool).
ClaremontPhoto
03-22-2009, 04:06
When buying out of date film you'll find everybody claiming it's been frozen.
I don't want ten year old frozen
I do want ten year old in a box at the back of the store.
But they all lie and say it's been frozen!
Get a batch and try it, whatever is cheap and available, and discover it's weirdness ahead of the big day.
When buying out of date film you'll find everybody claiming it's been frozen.
I don't want ten year old frozen
I do want ten year old in a box at the back of the store.
But they all lie and say it's been frozen!
Get a batch and try it, whatever is cheap and available, and discover it's weirdness ahead of the big day.
the thing that concerns me is consistency. when you buy numerous rolls of expired film as a lot, how much difference do you see roll to roll?
ClaremontPhoto
03-22-2009, 04:22
the thing that concerns me is consistency. when you buy numerous rolls of expired film as a lot, how much difference do you see roll to roll?
That's why you buy a batch.
Try out one or two films, and then use the rest when you know how it will behave.
The film within the batch will be consistent. Consistently odd.
for a comic book feel, why not Velvia or some other slides? yes, kinda opposite of what you asked, but I see comics in bright, supersaturated colours...
pesphoto
03-22-2009, 06:36
cross processing c41 film..........
xayraa33
03-22-2009, 06:46
for colour film, go with Ferrania.
Superia 1600 is my vote:-)
David William White
03-22-2009, 06:53
Well, the worst C-41 film I've ever used was Scotch. If you want awful negatives with lots of grain, then underexpose any outdated colour negative film. Minilabs will push process. For those with reluctance, just chat up the tech and let them in on what you are doing. You probably want to tell them not to adjust the prints anyway.
However, for cosplay, you should really consider cross-processing some Ektachrome, as others suggested. You get slight colour shifts (but not greenish like Fuji), chunkier grain, and punchier colours. The minilab can process Ektachrome in C-41, but again, if not normally on the menu, you have to chat up the tech. Most would be happy (if not intrigued) to participate.
For just one example of an Ektachrome slide cross-processed in C-41, see my image on page 7 of W/NW Colour.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59549&page=7
This was done with 4x5, so there's not much grain, but if you shoot rollfilm, the grain should be more pronounced.
bmattock
03-22-2009, 07:26
for colour film, go with Ferrania.
Bingo! Dingdingdingding, we have a winner! Or rather, a loser.
This is terrible film. Sold under the Kroger imprint in US grocery stores. Might be sold elsewhere. Look for the 'Made in Italy' label on the box.
It's crap.
Check with the Lomo crowd. Evidently they made a batch of C41 film that was 'designed" to be shot through the backing of the film. The result was truly weird colors! Obviously they had a great deal of problem convincing the manufacturer to spool the film in reverse! Once they found out that the order was for 150 000+ rolls, they quickly changed their mind. Dont now the name or designation of the film - but someone well versed in Lomography probably will.
hans voralberg
03-22-2009, 07:50
For simplicity sake just underexposed Superia 800 or 1600, you'll get truly horrendous results. I think you might actually dump them after seeing them :P
Kirlkand signature gave me the worse grain ever for a 200 iso but the colour was not bad. Velvia as given me some outlandish cast but generally it is excellent (or terrible from your point of view)
If you can do MF, I've got a couple of rolls of Fuji NPS that is dated 2002-4. The only cold it has seen is when the power fails in the winter time.
--michael
ClaremontPhoto
03-22-2009, 08:23
Check with the Lomo crowd. Evidently they made a batch of C41 film that was 'designed" to be shot through the backing of the film. The result was truly weird colors! Obviously they had a great deal of problem convincing the manufacturer to spool the film in reverse! Once they found out that the order was for 150 000+ rolls, they quickly changed their mind. Dont now the name or designation of the film - but someone well versed in Lomography probably will.
It's a technique known as redscale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redscale) and can be done at home.
You need to respool the film so that the backing layer is facing the shutter.
Or, as Tom says, you can order it ready made back-to-front from Lomography.
sienarot
03-22-2009, 08:48
I can usually find something good about any film. The only exception is Fuji Superia 200. I can't find anything I like about that film.
Spider67
03-22-2009, 09:11
Crossprocessing diapostive is sure to give you strange results.
In BW I vote for Lucky 400
Wow, thanks everyone. Keep the suggestions rolling! I am going to check my local Kroger to see if they have any ferrania, particularly 800 speed. I am also considering some Fujicolor Press 800, as the grain is just about perfect when underexposed a stop.
I want to avoid cross processing (either way), mainly because I feel like it is way overdone, and I don't want to be mistaken for a lomographer. I don't use the 'rules of lomography' when I use my holgas, and, by extension, I don't want to be mistaken for someone who uses expired cross processed film just because the Lomo Hipsters say it is cool, even if expired cross processed film would be the perfect thing for this project.
for a comic book feel, why not Velvia or some other slides? yes, kinda opposite of what you asked, but I see comics in bright, supersaturated colours...
I don't want to use velvia for a couple of reasons: First, because I am doing this project on the cheap. Second, bad things always happen when I use velvia. Third, ive come to the conclusion that I don't really like the 'velvia look' any more, even though i was stupid for it back in high school.
I know what you mean about comics in bright, supersaturated colors. That is very true of modern comic books. I am going for an old yellowed, dog eared, vintage comic book kind of look, when the color process was far from as good as it is today.
russianRF
03-22-2009, 09:27
I want to avoid cross processing (either way), mainly because I feel like it is way overdone, and I don't want to be mistaken for a lomographer. I don't use the 'rules of lomography' when I use my holgas, and, by extension, I don't want to be mistaken for someone who uses expired cross processed film just because the Lomo Hipsters say it is cool, even if expired cross processed film would be the perfect thing for this project.
Excuse me, but aren't you making the same mistake as Lomo hipsters here, but in reverse? They shoot a certain type of film not because they're familiar with it or because it's right for their work, but because it's "cool" to do so. YOU are refusing to shoot a certain type of film, even though it might fit perfectly for your application, because shooting the film offends YOUR sense of what is "cool" (for you, not being hipster = cool).
If Lomography style film is what will get you to where you want to be -- and I think it's a good bet it will -- you should keep on doing what you've been doing: ignore the hipsters and use the best film for your job, reguardless of what they're doing.
I, personally, would not confuse interesting, weirdly-colored "lomo-esque" images of cosplay characters with hipster lomo-esque shots of cats sniffing at the lens. Remember that composition and content are much more important to your artistic message (or the hipsters' lack of a message) then whatever kind of film or camera you're using. I'd bet that for every "eww he's just a lomographer" comment you'd over hear, you'd find TEN people saying "see! THAT is the sort of thing Lomography makes interesting/appealing."
Excuse me, but aren't you making the same mistake as Lomo hipsters here, but in reverse? They shoot a certain type of film not because they're familiar with it or because it's right for their work, but because it's "cool" to do so. YOU are refusing to shoot a certain type of film, even though it might fit perfectly for your application, because shooting the film offends YOUR sense of what is "cool" (for you, not being hipster = cool).
If Lomography style film is what will get you to where you want to be -- and I think it's a good bet it will -- you should keep on doing what you've been doing: ignore the hipsters and use the best film for your job, reguardless of what they're doing.
I, personally, would not confuse interesting, weirdly-colored "lomo-esque" images of cosplay characters with hipster lomo-esque shots of cats sniffing at the lens. Remember that composition and content are much more important to your artistic message (or the hipsters' lack of a message) then whatever kind of film or camera you're using. I'd bet that for every "eww he's just a lomographer" comment you'd over hear, you'd find TEN people saying "see! THAT is the sort of thing Lomography makes interesting/appealing."
It isn't really a matter of what I think is cool. If I were only shooting what I thought was cool, I wouldn't be considering color film. Unfortunately, I don't think this project would work in black and white, at least not as well.
Most people judge an image they see in about two seconds, at least as far as an inital like/dislike response goes. I fear that regardless of the content, if I xproed my images, an unacceptable number of people would simply dismiss my images as 'just yet another idiot xproing because it is trendy." To me, that is not an effective way of making my images stand out. I have nothing against anyone who uses various techniques and equipment that have been lumped under the 'lomography' term, if they are using the various techniques and equipment to fulfill a unique vision. I don't, however, want to engage in any xpro myself.
Also, as far as "(not being a hipster = cool)" goes, I do exhibit a number of hipsterish tendencies, particularly my taste in obscure rock bands that no one has ever heard of. The thing that is not cool to me is blindly following trends, and the 'lomography' scam has FAR too many people drinking the E6 kool-aid.
Processing 35mm movie film via C-41 might work. I have a bunch
of old "RGB" film around here someplace. Remember that? It's
really Kodak 5247 I think.
There's also the old Scotch Chrome 1000. It was a super grainy
E6 film but it could be cross-processed via C-41 if you can find
some.
Both of the above were the worst color films I remember using
back in the day.
bmattock
03-23-2009, 19:53
Wow, thanks everyone. Keep the suggestions rolling! I am going to check my local Kroger to see if they have any ferrania, particularly 800 speed. I am also considering some Fujicolor Press 800, as the grain is just about perfect when underexposed a stop.
The Kroger stuff will be sold with the Kroger name brand on it - it won't say Ferrania. But the box says 'Made in Italy' or 'Product of Italy' and that's the stuff. I only tried the 200. Truly, it stinketh. Grain like golfballs, fugly colors, and reminds me of old 1970's suburban lawn parties where everyone plays lawn darts and the kids roller skate in the street with those steel-wheel skates that need a key to go over your street shoes. Get me a Coors and put a brat on the barbecue for me.
ChrisLivsey
03-25-2009, 13:32
Check with the Lomo crowd. Evidently they made a batch of C41 film that was 'designed" to be shot through the backing of the film. The result was truly weird colors! Obviously they had a great deal of problem convincing the manufacturer to spool the film in reverse! Once they found out that the order was for 150 000+ rolls, they quickly changed their mind. Dont now the name or designation of the film - but someone well versed in Lomography probably will.
Not well versed in Lomography but I stumbled across this from another site.
http://www.lomography.com/redscalefilm/
then this for examples:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/redscale/
crawdiddy
03-25-2009, 13:43
Well, the worst C-41 film I've ever used was Scotch. If you want awful negatives with lots of grain, then underexpose any outdated colour negative film.
I agree. I shot some Scotch 3200 ISO film once, and the grain was marble-sized. So ugly it was almost attractive.
The Kroger stuff will be sold with the Kroger name brand on it - it won't say Ferrania. But the box says 'Made in Italy' or 'Product of Italy' and that's the stuff. I only tried the 200. Truly, it stinketh. Grain like golfballs, fugly colors, and reminds me of old 1970's suburban lawn parties where everyone plays lawn darts and the kids roller skate in the street with those steel-wheel skates that need a key to go over your street shoes. Get me a Coors and put a brat on the barbecue for me.Freestyle's Aristacolor is Ferrania. Shot a roll of 400 once...never again.
I do have a holga, but I don't use it in a 'lomography' style, which I think is a total scam, and I will be using my Leica for this project. I want bad looking film because I will be doing portraits of cosplayers at a comic book convention, and I want a film that will give the feel of a comic book panel, with slightly out of whack colors and/or almost a pop art/pointillism feel from large grain.
the answer is: photoshop. the pontilism you are after is a graphic arts effect, not grain.
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