View Full Version : Old style rewind on M7?
zerobuttons
03-09-2009, 12:28
I have seen several here advocate for the old style rewind on M bodies, because of mechanical weaknesses with the new style.
Now that Iīm ever so slightly beginning to look into an ā la carte M7, I have looked for the old style rewind when configuring a body at Leicaīs website. I donīt see that option.
Has anyone here had an ā la carte M7 configured with the old style rewind? What was the price for that option?
Austerby
03-09-2009, 12:33
No, but I am interested in the response you have. I occasionally toy with the a la carte and always end up with an M7 that looks like a chrome MP but that awful rewind handle rather than the old-school post can't be changed and that's as far as I get. I think sometimes about simply selling my current fleet of Ms (well, all four of them) and pooling the funds into an a la carte M7...
Tim Gray
03-09-2009, 14:40
I'd like to actually hear from someone who shattered or otherwise broke the so-called mechanically weak new style lever. Seriously
If anything did actually break, the little plastic tip would. And if you look at the construction of the new style lever, I'm sure it would still work fine with out the tip, with plenty of space for your thumb. Also, it looks like its just held on with a flat head screw, so I'm sure you could get a new tip for about $2 and fix it.
Maybe I'm overreacting, but I'd be worried about breaking about 100 other parts on my camera before I broke that.
I dont have actual experience with this, but I do remember reading that some people had DAG change their rewind changed to one from Leica R system. I guess if camera was dropped it can bend and jam, while one from R system supposed to be better in that respect.
RITskellar
03-09-2009, 14:50
I've had some experience ordering alacarte cameras (MPs) from Leica, at least back in the day when rebates and overall costs were more in line with what a standard MP would be. While I don't have any direct experience with the M7, I have seen Leica be receptive to special requests outside of the given configuration options available on the web. It wouldn't hurt to ask your dealer to inquire.
The only additional thought I do have on the subject, is that being that the M7 top plate is taller than the MP top plate, it is very possible that they simply never produced any "tall" M7 top plates with old knob rewind. If so, this would be a significant customization that I somehow doubt they would be able or willing to do. But again... never hurts to ask. Good luck!
waileong
03-09-2009, 15:06
It is definitely possible to bend the film rewind crank by dropping the camera... Something that makes its impossible to wind the film.
Chuck Albertson
03-09-2009, 15:07
I'd like to actually hear from someone who shattered or otherwise broke the so-called mechanically weak new style lever. Seriously
If anything did actually break, the little plastic tip would. And if you look at the construction of the new style lever, I'm sure it would still work fine with out the tip, with plenty of space for your thumb. Also, it looks like its just held on with a flat head screw, so I'm sure you could get a new tip for about $2 and fix it.
Maybe I'm overreacting, but I'd be worried about breaking about 100 other parts on my camera before I broke that.
I've had the whole assembly come off one of my M6s, twice in fact. It screwed back on, but I much prefer the old-school knob on my MP.
I'd like to actually hear from someone who shattered or otherwise broke the so-called mechanically weak new style lever. Seriously
If anything did actually break, the little plastic tip would. And if you look at the construction of the new style lever, I'm sure it would still work fine with out the tip, with plenty of space for your thumb. Also, it looks like its just held on with a flat head screw, so I'm sure you could get a new tip for about $2 and fix it.
Maybe I'm overreacting, but I'd be worried about breaking about 100 other parts on my camera before I broke that.
Count me in,
three times, mind you.
Twice broken on an M4, then bent enough on an M6TTl to scar the chrome when rewinding.
It is not the only drawback of the system.
With the little crank, inevitably, at the middle of the rewinding, the crank would slip from my fingers, and return quite a few rounds back.
It makes the whole "quick" rewind not very quick...
I, for one, much prefer the older style...
BillBlackwell
03-09-2009, 15:56
It is not possible to get the old-style "Post" RW system on an M7 through Leica. A few years ago I acquired an M6 Millennium topcover and used it to customize an M7. I purchased all of the other black paint parts through Leica and vulcanite covering through Aki-Asahi.
By the time I was finished I would have done just as well, cost-wise, to get an a-la-carte through Leica and happily done without the old-style RW system.
It was a nice looking camera though - and pretty much a one-of-a-kind BP M7.
I sold it a few years ago in order to finance the purchase of a new M8.
I have had my M4s for over 30 years, and I have never had problems with the rewind levers.
It is not the only drawback of the system.
With the little crank, inevitably, at the middle of the rewinding, the crank would slip from my fingers, and return quite a few rounds back.
It makes the whole "quick" rewind not very quick...
I, for one, much prefer the older style...
Thats why I really like the way M5 has it - rewind is racheted and hidden into the bottom plate, so no such problems there.
35mmdelux
03-09-2009, 16:17
I've seen a few MP with the new, or angled, rewind knobs. Looks pretty cool.
Livesteamer
03-09-2009, 16:19
All it took was a gentle bump on the rewind of my black M6 and it was bent enough to be inoperable. Fortunately I was able to unscrew it from below on the inside and not turn the warped crank which would have scarred the black finish. If you ever take one off, examine it and you will see there are parts of it that are very thin and easy to bend. I've never heard of an old style knob getting bent. Joe
drewbarb
03-09-2009, 16:43
Sadly, they don't offer the old style rewind post on the M7, even a la carte. But who cares? The MP has the post, and if you want a camera with AE, the Zeiss Ikon beats the M7 hands down. :eek: The Ikon has a (gasp) better finder than the Leica, faster flash sync (if you care about that)- and a better rewind mechanism. :D
So who's broken the angled rewind crank on the newer M's? I used to have an M4p and an M6. I had problems with the rewind cranks on both of these cameras- and more than once each. Both cameras got knocked hard enough over the years to smash the cranks. The M4p's crank once got a very light tap which never-the-less bent the head enough that it wouldn't turn. The M6 once swung into the frame of a doorway I was walking through, and the crank got sheared clean off. OK, these examples are all under stress; how about the time the M6's crank just came apart in my hands under normal use? The set screw worked it's way loose, and the internal mechanism came un-screwed.
Many folks go years without problems with these things; I wasn't one of them. I happen to think the old rewind posts on my M3's look better anyway. :rolleyes:
For me it was a no-brainer, the 0.58 MP chrome....;)
Only thing keeping it from being perfect is that it has the "new" smaller, less accurate frames.
I always wander why the a-la-carte don't offer the two options:
current for slide shooters, and older frames for negs, full frame printers...
It could be so easy...
If I remember correctly, the rewind crank of the Leica SL (or SL2 ?) fits on the M6, M6TTL, and M7. It is made form thicker material and more rugged. Don from DAG or Youxin Ye can help with this, my guess.
The rewind knob of my M2 (and former M3s) just work great, the one of my former MP always slipped back and had to be repaired by Leica ...
The rewind knob of my M2 (and former M3s) just work great, the one of my former MP always slipped back and had to be repaired by Leica ...
I wander what you mean by that.
The regular old type rewind post on your MP is running back when in half roll??
I'm asking because I think mine does this too, although it's much less a nuisance than with the crank..
Also, mine has a very tight fit and is hard to lift in place.
I really don't know if it will get better with time.
Nothing really bothering me though...
I wander what you mean by that.
The regular old type rewind post on your MP is running back when in half roll??
Exactly that's what it did. It was so loose that it slipped back when in half roll and rewinding a film took ages. It was repaired on warranty together with the sticky shutter button, faulty shutter and electronic problem on warranty by Leica, though.
Ken Ford
03-10-2009, 03:38
If I remember correctly, the rewind crank of the Leica SL (or SL2 ?) fits on the M6, M6TTL, and M7. It is made form thicker material and more rugged. Don from DAG or Youxin Ye can help with this, my guess.
That's what I used to replace my bent original at Don's suggestion.
Tim Gray
03-10-2009, 07:10
Ooops, I sound like an ass. For some reason I thought you guys were talking about the film advance lever. Which is why I said the word 'lever' and talked about plastic tips, etc.
The rewind knob - the newer style is definitely more 'complex' and I would assume more prone to damage, though I've never had any problem. You could get two new-used M7's for the price of one a la carte M7. That way if your broke your rewind knob, you'd still be ok. You'd also be covered for any other kind of mishap.
Chuck Albertson
03-10-2009, 08:08
Ooops, I sound like an ass. For some reason I thought you guys were talking about the film advance lever. Which is why I said the word 'lever' and talked about plastic tips, etc.
I've done that with an M6, too. As I recall, the replacement tip cost a bit more than $2.00
sepiareverb
03-10-2009, 11:50
I did ask Leica about the MP rewind for an M7 but was told no way. I wondered about the M6TTL version (same size as M7) with the MP style rewind, but was told no way again.
Just to put it out there, I've seen several Nikons (FE, FM, F2) with rewind knobs that were inoperable after drops. Not only the Leica has this 'problem'- and seriously, is you drop it hard enough to bend the rewind knob ain't something else going to be wrong too?
i can't find the article right now, but i remember a small piece in Leica Photography magazine from the late 60s about this. it said one of the reasons they changed to the 45 degree angled rewinder was that it took a lot of parts out of the camera and was much simpler to produce. the old style knob had to work around the viewfinder assembly and required a few gears to connect the knob to the shaft that turns the film spool. the article was basically praising the guy who designed it.
so maybe the electronics or something in the M7 are in the way of using the old rewind knob.
bob
zerobuttons
03-10-2009, 22:20
I'd like to actually hear from someone who shattered or otherwise broke the so-called mechanically weak new style lever. Seriously.
The latest thread about a user experiencing a bent axle is very recent.
zerobuttons
03-10-2009, 22:29
i can't find the article right now, but i remember a small piece in Leica Photography magazine from the late 60s about this. it said one of the reasons they changed to the 45 degree angled rewinder was that it took a lot of parts out of the camera and was much simpler to produce. the old style knob had to work around the viewfinder assembly and required a few gears to connect the knob to the shaft that turns the film spool. the article was basically praising the guy who designed it.
so maybe the electronics or something in the M7 are in the way of using the old rewind knob.
bob
That information was certainly interesting, in view of the answers from those who have apparently got a negative answer from Leica regarding this.
Thank you to all for your answers.
RichardB
03-11-2009, 04:27
This is clearly a solution in search of a problem. I'm sure that thier are instances of angled rewind systems malfunctioning on various M's since the introduction of the M4 but I'm also sure that this is not a problem widely experienced that one has to worry about. I have M6 Classic and two M7's and never even give it a thought, it just works fine.
In fact if I ever was to order an MP, it would have the angled rewind system.-Dick
This is clearly a solution in search of a problem.
But think of all the fun you could have worrying about it for years. Then you could obsess about replacing the plastic tipped "new" advance lever with the old solid metal ones in case that broke someday. There's just so much one could worry about, really.
Roger Hicks
03-11-2009, 05:45
I bent the one on my M4-P in the Julian Alps a few years ago but straightened it out (enough to work) with a Leatherman tool. I don't know when the damage happened as I didn't notice until I came to rewind.
Tasho delek,
Roger
Just to put a little perspective on this: Leica introduced the "new style" rewind with the M4 in 1967 -- over 40 years ago. If the angled rewind were such a weak spot, even a company as conservative as Leica would have redesigned it. My first Leica was an M3, but I added an M4, in part, for the better ergonomics, including the easier rewind. I've never looked back.
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