Black-only printing with Epson 1400?

[mabelsound]

I've been debating getting a printer for a year. At the moment I'm looking at the Epson 1400. I figure I'd be printing B&W maybe 80% of the time, but want to hang onto the option of printing in color. Reading around the internet, it seems that this printer does really well with the black-only printing method, and you can swap out the Epson black cartrige for a high-end one such as MIS Eboni K, and still use it with the Epson color cartridges. This seems ideal for me, but do I have my details right here? Would I be restricted to either matte or glossy? Can I really use the Eboni with the stock color inks?

If you use this printer for both color and black only, please share your workflow/inks/paper combinations. Now that my back room FINALLY has the heat fixed and won't be 30 degrees during the night in the winter, I am feeling ready to start printing!

(btw, this is kind of a spinoff from the cheap epson B&W thread...I wanted to start something more specific over here...)

[froyd]

As I had mentioned to you in the earlier "Cheap Epson" thread, I print black-only (BO) on a 2200, but my experience will be relevant to the 1400.

You don't necessarily have to stick with MIS Eboni black for the best BO results. While that ink works well with Epson Enhanced Matte or Velvet and other matte papers, I had equally great results using photo K on Museo Silver Rag. I have not tried any other, cheaper papers with the look of the traditional air-dried glossy fiber papers, but I plan to, since Silver rag costs a fortune.

Since most of my other prints are color family snapshots, leaving the photo K in saves me wasted ink in the clean cycle that happens whenever the blacks are swapped.

[dfoo]

I use the UT14 inkset with the 1400 with excellent results. What I like is that I can print both matte and glossy without changing out the carts.

[mabelsound]

dfoo, do you know if the 1400 driver offers a "black only" option, as older Epson printers do? Or (back to froyd here) would I have to use QuadTone RIP? Do you use it, froyd?

Getting the photo K and leaving it in seems like the best option for me. I would like to print matte and glossy...I probably won't be investing in expensive rag papers.

[froyd]

I'm not sure what the 1400's capabilities are in terms of BO. Clayton Jones site and Epson's should give you the answer. I've tried QuadTone to try getting BW prints using all the color cartridges, but I never good results that matched the BO technique in both simplicity and look. This is admittedly due to operator ignorance, but be as it may I never went back to QuadTone.

PS_ the QT support community is very active and very helpful if you need pointers, like I did.

[Todd.Hanz]

not sure if this helps but I print BO with a 2200. Using the Epson software the inks (both matte and glossy) have a bronze color, almost sepia to them. The final print exhibits a sepia tone when printed on matte or semi-gloss paper. I managed a good print using the cool/warm setting on the quadtone RIP. Side by side the Quadtone looks more like BW when compared to the BO straight from the Epson software.

This may only happen on the pigment inkset, not sure though.

Good Luck,
Todd

[mabelsound]

I'm not sure what the 1400's capabilities are in terms of BO. Clayton Jones site and Epson's should give you the answer.

Unfortunately Jones makes no mention of the 1400, and I can't find this information on Epson's site either. Presumably I could do it with QuadTone RIp but I must admit I don't fully understand how all of this works and suspect I'll end up going through a lot of ink and paper before I figure it out. Which is one reason I still haven't bought a printer...

[dfoo]

Another reason to use the UT14 inkset :) You can buy 4oz of the inkset for something like $100, which will last quite some time!

I get very good prints, and haven't wasted all that much paper. I've been using the Epson Premium Matte (cut into 4 pieces for proofing), and the Kirkland Glossy, which is both cheap and pretty nice looking!

I'll take a look at the printer settings later to see whether BO is possible.

[mabelsound]

Another reason to use the UT14 inkset :) You can buy 4oz of the inkset for something like $100, which will last quite some time!

I get very good prints, and haven't wasted all that much paper. I've been using the Epson Premium Matte (cut into 4 pieces for proofing), and the Kirkland Glossy, which is both cheap and pretty nice looking!

I'll take a look at the printer settings later to see whether BO is possible.

Cool, thanks!

[mabelsound]

Any updates on this, y'all? I'm still considering this printer. If I can do black only with it, I will probably go for it. It's kind of weird, all new information about black-only printing on the internet seems to have stopped in like late 2007. My main concern is not having to swap out the inks and clean the heads just to print B&W, and then have to switch it all back the next day because my mom wants prints of my kids.

[Bob Michaels]

Mabelsound: Spend $600 and get an Epson 2400 or 2880. Then you can do great b&w right out of the box using the ABW mode and then print a color photo of your kids with nothing but a change in Photoshop settings.

I printed with the various MIS inksets for years. I printed BO for quite a while. I have a "thanks for the contributions" somewhere in Clayton Jones website. Then I got a 2400 several years ago. I was disappointed that all my years of learning the craft had been just built into the 2400 with automatic settings. No hassles, no clogs, but great prints done easy.

[mabelsound]

Hey Bob, thanks a lot! I'm afraid I don't have the money or the space for one of those printers just now...I'm fixated on the 1400 because it's inexpensive and small, and has the same 1.5pl dots as the larger models.

Does the 1400 have an ABW mode?

[mabelsound]

OK, so I emailed Paul Roark about this and he was kind enough to reply in detail. He says that the 1400 prints very smoothly with the black cartridge only, but that this option is not available through the stock driver, and that you have to use Quadtone RIP. FIne by me. He also says Eboni doesn't play well with the stock Claria inks...so I will probably try some BO for a couple months, print my upcoming color show, then decide if I want to go all-B&W or not. If a current eBay auction works out, I'll order the printer soon.

[Bob Michaels]

Mabelsound: A few observations

Paul Roark is a first class guy who speaks the truth. He is the unpaid b&w ink developer for MIS. He is an excellent photographer and master printer. He is as independent from MIS as possible (he does this for free) and has no problem either recommending or criticizing MIS products. A lot of googling will show what Paul accomplished at an FTC enforcement attorney before he retired.

MIS is a first class outfit as well. They are a small company in a changing market but ethical as the day is long and has good customer support. I dealt with the owner, Bob Zeiss, back some 35 years ago when he was head of the TRW industrial automation lab and bought our minicomputers. Back then there was a lot of voodoo and black magic in just getting them to work and he understood. I have probably spent over $2,000 with MIS buying inks and cartridges.

If you can get a good Epson 1400 for $150; you then need: QTR ($50 unless you just steal it), MIS UT-14 inkset ($100) and reusable MIS carts, chip resetter, and filling syringes ($100). Add it up and you have spent $400 and need paper and time to make all these different elements work together.

Or, you could spend $50 or $100 more for a solution that works right out of the box.

Over the years I have been the mix and match, custom solution to the problem. I could make great prints with a 1280 when few could. I have about $400 in MIS custom inks and cartridges for my 2400 sitting on the shelf. Yet I am now using the standard Epson print driver and inks. But I am one of those who will prefer a simple solution over a complex one given the same results.

[mabelsound]

So Bob, the 2400 uses entirely different, and more satisfactory, stock inks from the 1400?

[Bob Michaels]

So Bob, the 2400 uses entirely different, and more satisfactory, stock inks from the 1400?

Yes, the 2400 / 2880 has black, light black and light light black (3 dilutions) and the ABW (Advanced Black White) mode is basically a simple built in RIP. It is not as sophisticated or complex as QTR, but it works.

You can read the tech details on the Epson website.

Now, I must add that I have seen really good b&w prints made from just about everything. More importantly, they are almost all good enough. "Good enough" is a hard concept to swallow, especially for a group that equates the merit of a photo by the minute differences in the lens rather than the subject matter of the photo. But it still boils down to 99.9% of what you photograph, .05% in what lens you use and .05% in the printer you use. I have seen spectacular photo prints made by an visionary photographer with 12 year old printer technology and I have seen technically perfect prints that were boring as hell.

[mabelsound]

Fair enough. I honestly don't want anything to be complex--I want it to just work. I always want it to just work. But I know how fussy I am, too. I've been ordering prints from Mpix and they are never, never even close to having black enough Dmax. It could be that I'd even be happy with the 1400 and stock inks, but I could see myself getting frustrated within days, too.

Ultimately, I have $300 and want to make some prints. (Indeed, I have to, for an upcoming color show.) So the 1400 is what I'm looking at. At the moment I am leaning toward getting it and just using and enjoying what it comes with. And I'm sure it would be better than fine. And when the inks run out, I will either keep on with Epson inks or buy some MIS ones, depending on how I feel about what I've been able to do with it.

But I dunno, Bob, I would like a new printer, under warranty, and the 2400 is just not in my price range right now. It's going to be a really tight year. I'll give it some thought.

Thanks for all your help!

[Bob Michaels]

Mabelsound: Then buy what you think you can comfortably afford, and enjoy it. As I said, you can make really good prints with all of them.

You will see two benefits. You be happier with your prints done yourself because they will be what you want them to look like. Plus, you will have a greater sense of accomplishment when you realize that you were responsible for everything from beginning to the final output.

[dfoo]

I use UT14 and the 1400 without QTR. Works great! I profiled my papers as outlined by Paul on his website. For Kirkland Glossy I use the profiles provided on his site. The prints look very very close to my monitor. It is very simple. Load the shot up in Lightroom. When it looks good, go to the print module, select the right ICC, set the printer drivers up correctly, and viola!

[mabelsound]

cool, guys, thanks again!

[momus1]

I've been BO printing w/ the 2200 and 1280's using the MIS Eboni ink in refillable cartridges for many years, and the prints are just beautiful. Lots of contrast and deep, deep blacks. I tried the UT full ink sets once from MIS and didn't like them nearly as much. The beauty of BO is that you can print a 13x19 print for basically just the price of the paper. Ink usage is very minimal. Be warned though, you will have to do a trial print every few days, and you may as well do some head cleanings at the same time. You can buy the cheap off brand color cartridges (at least you can for the 1280 and 2200) and go a long time before replacing them. I recently bought a Moab sampler pack of papers and found several good ones in the selection. Epson heavy weight matt is good for proofing, and the Epson Velvet Fine Art papers are great w/ BO prints. I also use Hawk Mountain Condor B&W paper successfully.

Recently I wondered if I was missing something printing this way, so I bought an HP 8750 printer. It makes beautiful darkroom-type prints using the grayscale method, but the Epson BO prints are sharper, and I ended up preferring them to the HP on almost every print. It was good to see it w/ my own eyes. If you frame your work properly and use 100% rag paper a BO print w/ a carbon based black ink should last centuries. And you won't have to deal w/ calibrating your monitor w/ expensive tools, buying expensive ink sets, or going crazy trying to eliminate color casts.

[Bob Michaels]

I've been BO printing w/ the 2200 and 1280's using the MIS Eboni ink in refillable cartridges for many years, and the prints are just beautiful. Lots of contrast and deep, deep blacks.

I printed BO for many years using a 1280 / Eboni / Hawk Mountain Condor BW. You are right, there is something stunning about the BO prints. The only reason I quit was the high maintenance of the 1280 using pigment inks. I wore out 2 1/2 of them.

I still show prints made that way. They just have a sparkle about them that works with my style of photography.

[shadowfox]

John, if you like neutral B&W prints (I do), carbon inks such as the MIS Ebony are probably the best way to go.

I have never seen a neutral B&W prints from any manufacturer's stock ink set. None. If others have produced one, and willing to send me a sample, I will take my words back.

I may have mentioned this before, but I tried MIS ink on a (stupid of me buying a used inkjet) R1800 and then using a Densitometer to "read" the print afterwards. CMYK channels all showing similar numbers up to 2 decimal points. Translation: it's pretty darn neutral.

I am concentrating on wet-prints now, that's why I haven't yet picked up an Epson 1400 + MIS inks. Sounds like a good way to get high-resolution neutral B&W prints.

[Bob Michaels]

I think what Shadowfox is effectively trying to say is that it is very difficult to make a neutral gray from mixing red, green, & blue while it is simple to do so by mixing black & white.

"Neutral Gray" can be technically defined by evaluating the Lab A and Lab B curves with a colorimeter. But most often it ends up that a technically correct neutral gray is not exactly what we were looking for. Some prefer a slightly warm gray, some a slightly cool gray. Wet darkroom prints were not exactly neutral and could be varied by paper, developer, or toning.

Having said all of that, some of the newer printers like the 2400 / 2880 / 3800 allow the printer to vary to "tone" of a b&w print by using the ABW mode. Roy Harrington's QTR does the same with even more control.

I have printed a lot a Eboni BO. Even using Hawk Mountain Condor BW, which yields the coolest tone, it does not give truly neutral grays. But I tend to like that tone.

I don't think the tone I have dialed in on my 2400 is an exact neutral gray either, although I could do so if I have a colorimeter to measure the LAB values. I just dialed in what I like.

John, if you like neutral B&W prints (I do), carbon inks such as the MIS Ebony are probably the best way to go.

I have never seen a neutral B&W prints from any manufacturer's stock ink set. None. If others have produced one, and willing to send me a sample, I will take my words back.

I may have mentioned this before, but I tried MIS ink on a (stupid of me buying a used inkjet) R1800 and then using a Densitometer to "read" the print afterwards. CMYK channels all showing similar numbers up to 2 decimal points. Translation: it's pretty darn neutral.

I am concentrating on wet-prints now, that's why I haven't yet picked up an Epson 1400 + MIS inks. Sounds like a good way to get high-resolution neutral B&W prints.

[mabelsound]

Well, I think I have decided what I'm going to do, FWIW. I'm gonna get the 1400 and print my color show. And that will probably deplete the inks. And when the inks are depleted, I will get the MIS set along with a few extra blacks, and use it only for B&W from then on. This way I'm not wasting anything, and only buying ink when i was going to have to buy it anyway. And I'll be able to try BO as much as I like once I swtich over to the MIS inks.

This is the show I am going to print, BTW. I told my poet friend to choose ten of these and write poems based on them, and we're going to show the photos and poems together, and print up a little Blurb catalog: http://inverseroom.creotia.com/words

[Bob Michaels]

Just remember that a refurbished (as good as new) 1400 from Epson is $159 including shipping. That includes new ink carts. The ink carts cost $114 (6 @ $19 each). So make sure whatever 1400 you buy comes with new filled ink carts.

Desktop inkjet printers use the old Gillette razor blade business model where you practically give away the unit and make your money on the consumables.

[mabelsound]

Just remember that a refurbished (as good as new) 1400 from Epson is $159 including shipping.

Wow, really?!? Holy moses, that's a good deal. Do they always have them in stock? I was going to pay 250 for a new one.

[Bob Michaels]

Wow, really?!? Holy moses, that's a good deal. Do they always have them in stock? I was going to pay 250 for a new one.

Epson USA refurbished stock changes very quickly. I just saw they had then now. Check www.Epson.com and look in the the clearance center.

Epson refurbished units are those that have been returned under warranty. Most often is user error rather than a true defect. But Epson fixes anything that is actually broken, then QCs them quite well, packs them with new ink carts and sell cheap. They have new equipment warranty. I have owned 5 Epson refurbished printers, 2 Epson refurbished scanners, and gave 2 Epson refurbished compact printers to my kids for Christmas gifts. I would never buy a new Epson product.

[Rhoyle]

I have a 1400. It does wonderful color work. You can print black only to the extent that there is a choice in the driver that lets you choose color or grayscale. The printer is optomized for RC papers. You'll have to decide if you like the results on matte papers. I have done come bw stuff with it using mixed color as well as greyscale. Like all other Epson printers I've done this with, the results vary. If you want a slam dunk and not have to worry about fussing with it to get the results you want, I think a system that is designed for bw will be best. Don't get me wrong, I love my 1400, but you need to get to know it.

[dfoo]

With MIS ink carts on matte paper the results are excellent (after I created a custom ICC for the paper). I've used both Epson Ultra Premium Presentation Matte, and Velvet Fine Art.

[mabelsound]

I just saw they had then now.

Arrrgh, I want to go for it, but I'm about to go out of town for a few days...I'll give them a call later this morning and see how long shipping will take.

I sold my absurdly expensive drum machine on eBay and can now BOTH pay my taxes and buy a printer!

[gnuyork]

Mabelsound: Spend $600 and get an Epson 2400 or 2880. Then you can do great b&w right out of the box using the ABW mode and then print a color photo of your kids with nothing but a change in Photoshop settings.

I printed with the various MIS inksets for years. I printed BO for quite a while. I have a "thanks for the contributions" somewhere in Clayton Jones website. Then I got a 2400 several years ago. I was disappointed that all my years of learning the craft had been just built into the 2400 with automatic settings. No hassles, no clogs, but great prints done easy.

I feel the same way. I took the time to learn the Roark method with the MIS UltraTone 2 system with the 1280, which at the time was the one of the few methods for getting good B&W inkjet prints. It was pretty complex with the tone curves for different papers and all, then I got the 2400 and was stunned by my first B&W print from it, and I felt a little disappointed in how easy it was.

Especially today with the better glossy baryta papers and the glossy black ink, I can't imagine it being better than that.