Self-appointed Authority Figures

[Bill Pierce]

Rangefinder photographers are often "street" photographers, folks wandering around with cameras pointing them at things they find interesting, revealing... And more and more these days having someone assuming the authority to tell them that they can't take that photograph. And it's not always a rent a cop.

For example, I once had a friend who was photographing a cheerleader contest at a state fair for his book on state fairs. He was credentialed by the fair. Someone in the stands, which were filled with photographers, reported him to a guard because he was "taking too many pictures of those girls."

Check out

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/02/on-authoritarianism.html

Mike Johnston's thoughts on the Colbert piece.

How do you deal with these self-appointed authority figures?

[jmkelly]

Bill, I guess I have been lucky, or maybe where I live there are more anti-authoritarians than elsewhere. But just in case, I carry a "photographer's rights" card and my cell phone to deal with the d**che-bag rent-a-cop, er... excuse me... hired security professional... who is protecting the local mall from terrorists.

Posing the more remote hypothetical, I think if ma or pa law-and-order decided to give me grief the first thing I would do is laugh in their face, then I would tell them that violating my civil rights is a federal crime and threaten them with a citizens arrest. Then I would call the cops and then my lawyer, who loves this stuff.

[emraphoto]

there is such a fine line between being polite, non-confrontational and avoiding problems AND the reality of your rights as a photographer. working primarily on the streets i run into these "types" a lot... and i mean A LOT. it is always in everyones best interest to measure the situation well and act accordingly. that being said i quite regularly tell security guards to stuff it up their... well you get the drift.

[Al Kaplan]

Two things that work if you can pull them off is keep the local police (NOT 911) on your cell phone speed dial. Tell the guard or whatever "Here, just push send and tell the police dispatcher to send somebody here to arrest me!" or try "Keep your hands where I can see them and don't make any sudden moves! You'll need to show me your driver's license, your carry permit (if they have a weapon), and at least one other piece of I.D." For the most part private security guards don't know squat about their own rights.

[emraphoto]

that is a great bit of advice al, thank god up here in canada we don't have to worry about them packin'.
i weigh in at 225, work out every single day and have tattoo's from my neck to my waist... usually a "take a hike" suffices.

[marke]

or try "Keep your hands where I can see them and don't make any sudden moves! You'll need to show me your driver's license, your carry permit (if they have a weapon), and at least one other piece of I.D."

LOL! I love it, Al. I'm going to try that sometime. Now I just need to practice sounding authoritive. :p

[Melvin]

I was confronted by a transit employee. She said I couldn't take pictures unless I was a tourist. So I told her I was a tourist but she didn't believe me.

[aizan]

For example, I once had a friend who was photographing a cheerleader contest at a state fair for his book on state fairs. He was credentialed by the fair. Someone in the stands, which were filled with photographers, reported him to a guard because he was "taking too many pictures of those girls."

would that friend happen to be arthur grace?

[Rui Morais de Sousa]

If you say that about rangefinders, now imagine me with my "strange" cameras on top of tripods...
Rui (http://ruimoraisdesousa.blogspot.com/)

[marke]

I was confronted by a transit employee. She said I couldn't take pictures unless I was a tourist.

Well now, at least SOMEBODY knows what they're talking about! :bang:

[larmarv916]

Actually my experience is that when I'm in Europe, I get zero hassle from anyone in Germany, Italy or France. I live in So. California and if I ride Amtrack into LA. The employees and security are constantly telling me what I can or can't do. In Frankfurt Main Station, I have my Leica around my neck in plan sight..I see a security person, I say "Hi or Hello" they almost automaticly ask if I am enjoying my visit. I tell them how great the station and trains are and so far everyone reminds me to take lots of photos to show everyone back in california how great it is. Also because they know Leica, Zeiss or Nikon they are really impressed...you are shooting real film. In california the "anti-photo" zelots are out in mass. I always remind people that it is the digital phone photos that are normally used by those with suspecious intentions.

I think that if people are out of line..I ask oh are you a member of real law enforcement ?? Or I remind the rental cop that under federal and Cal state law a "no Photo" signs must be posted. Also one time they tried to take my camera I explained that I would file a felony grand theft warrant. Not to mention assult charges. And then Sue. But even better is to remind them that they must take away ever cell phone with a camera, and all cameras on site by all customers, no exception... regardless of if it is in use or not !! or they are not engaging in discrmination under Cal. Civil Code.

That also includes any one taking video of a game even if it is his children. So be polite and also happy to inform them of your rights. Also carry a copy of the code for your area regarding photograpy. Keep a couple of xerox copies on you at all times and hand them out and then photograph the "assulting" or threatening person...just for the record. just in case you need to file charges.
All the best....Laurance

[Bike Tourist]

An old curmudgeon like me stiffens in resistance when told he can't photograph somewhere he knows is in legally secure territory.

But, the resistance usually takes the form of calm, reasoned and charming argument so that the would-be enforcer ends up showing me the best places to get my shot.

OKay, well maybe not EVERY time!

[wde60]

Be careful of the Amtrak police. "Some railroad police officers are certified law enforcement officers and may carry full police and arrest powers." (Wiki) They are more than rent-a-cops and mouthing off to them will probably get you in trouble.

The issue of security guards and street photographers seems to revolve around private property, who owns what and where the photographer is standing.

If you are standing on public property, security guards should be handled like aggressive dogs, either stand your ground with your camera/tripod at the ready in your dominant hand, or back away slowly while loudly spewing invectives.

[kshapero]

I know this sounds unfair, but I just tell the members of the thought police that I am shooting for "religious" reasons. They can't figure out if I am a Chassidic Jew (I am) or a Hell's Angel.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3212/3144665763_e85f59be57.jpg?v=1233925771

[ruby.monkey]

The only thing I've experienced which was anything like this was being told by an attendant at Cannon St station that I would have to obtain a permit from the station manager if I wished to photograph on the premises. Since I just happened to be carrying my camera with the strap around my neck while heading home, rather than being on the lookout for subjects, I didn't bother to enquire further.

I guess that busybodies in the UK are more likely to complain to the Daily Mail than to me. Probably just as well - my plan is to sing the Numa Numa (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPzlOIXPLVQ) song at anyone who hassles me until it sticks in his head.

[Al Patterson]

I know this sounds unfair, but I just tell the members of the thought police that I am shooting for "religious" reasons. They can't figure out if I am a Chassidic Jew (I am) or a Hell's Angel.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3212/3144665763_e85f59be57.jpg?v=1233925771

You don't have enough tats to be a biker...

;)

[bmattock]

Check out

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/02/on-authoritarianism.html

Mike Johnston's thoughts on the Colbert piece.


Nice article, thanks for the link.


How do you deal with these self-appointed authority figures?

On a case-by-case basis. I have stood my ground and argued, I have quietly refused to comply with cease-and-desist demands, and I have complied and gone on my (un)merry way, depending upon the circumstances.

Primary deciding factors for me are how certain I am that I am in the right; how willing I am to be arrested if it comes to that; and whether or not I feel like dealing with the overall hassle at that point in time.

With regard to the topic of authoritarianism, unfortunately it does not appear out of nowhere, there is no coup d'etat in free societies like ours. It generally begins with a demand for greater protection from the people, fanned by the media. There is generally a rise in populist thought, which is less concerned with the 'right' way and more concerned with 'what is best for me today' way. Populism is currently overtaking both liberalism and conservatism in the US, and it is a game that can be played by politicians on both sides of the aisle.

Populism says that CEO's who get outrageous bonuses should be locked up, never mind that they've broken no actual laws - this from a nation that decries the continued detention of known terrorists picked up on battlefields engaged in fighting US troops and currently held without recourse to the normal protections of law in US controlled territory outside the US. The irony is not lost on me.

Populism drives authoritarianism, and although no one wants to admit it, history always shows in hindsight that when populism reaches a certain saturation point in determining the affairs of a nation, it is indistinguishable from social nationalism. Again, this is no indictment of the left or the right - populism is people-driven (hence the name) with regard to the perceived misery index, not with regard to anyone's political beliefs. Populism simply believes that things are bad, and the government ought therefore do something about it. Government responds to these demands, and thus we have authoritarianism.

The problem is, of course, that authoritarianism serves no master but itself, and always ends in violent revolt. Authoritarianism 'fixes' the problem of the overpaid CEO's, but it also 'fixes' the problem of parents who think no one ought be able to take a photograph of their kid without their permission, or of paranoid citizens who think people taking photos of trains ought not be permitted to do so. In a new world of make-um-up laws that pander (at first) to the zeitgeist, there is no give-and-take or weighing of public necessity versus individual liberties when imposing law; every authoritarian response comes to be about keeping public order, without regard to freedom, liberty, or the rule of law.

[Gabriel M.A.]

How do you deal with these self-appointed authority figures?

It's happened to me often. I should point out that the only times this has happened, it's happened in the U.S. Never had a problem in Mexico, France, Czech Republic, Germany, Austria or The Netherlands. I did have a little "why does that look interesting eh?" in London, but that was it.

I treat them the same way they treat me; seems to work.

I should also point out that I've never seen a female photographer harassed the way male photographers do. Although, I did see one girl being asked by a rent-a-cop at a mall why she was taking photos. That's been the only time.

Ah, your lack of tax-dollars, not at work.

[Dogman]

I was confronted by a transit employee. She said I couldn't take pictures unless I was a tourist. So I told her I was a tourist but she didn't believe me.

This reminds me of the time in my youth when I was visiting my girlfriend at college (I had graduated the year before). I came back to my car to see a campus security officer writing a parking ticket based on my being a student and not having my car registered for use on campus. When I told him I was not a student but was only visiting a friend, he looked in the side window of my car and said, "You've got books in there, so you must be a student." I politely advised him that I could read but that didn't mean I was a student. He wrote the ticket anyway.

Back to the subject at hand.... It depends. I think sometimes we take it for granted that we should be able to photograph anywhere at any time we please. It's not always the case. I've heard other photographers get their backs up over being told by a store owner that they couldn't take pictures inside his business. Well, wake up--you don't have the right to do whatever you please everywhere.

On the other hand, I've been told many times to stop taking pictures by self-appointed purveyors of the public good. Usually I say nothing and keep on taking pictures. As of yet no one has bothered to follow up on their demand.

I also like the reply Gerry Winogrand had when told, "You can't take my picture!" He said, "It's my picture!"

[photomoof]

I should also point out that I've never seen a female photographer harassed the way male photographers do. Although, I did see one girl being asked by a rent-a-cop at a mall why she was taking photos. That's been the only time.

They never look as ridiculous as male photographers. The one thing I learned from being an investor in three bars [pubs] -- is that most older men do not have a mirror at home.

[Al Kaplan]

I think that one thing working in my favor is that I'm a well known "character" at this end of Miami-Dade county, having worked for a few newspapers, including being the "Token Honky" at a black paper about thirty years ago, and my clients have included a couple of major malls, some ritzy private clubs, a local university, the City of North Miami, the Jamaican Tourist Development Board, the local congressman for twenty-five years, etc., so a lot of people know me or know who I am.

I think that it helps to "get involved" in your community, work (for free sometimes) on local election campaigns, show up on a regular basis at Chamber of Commerce functions and city council meetings and the like. Don't be afraid to wear a suit and tie on occasion.

I started doing that on a tip from my editor way back when I was 27 and I'm 66 now. I try to show up at city council meetings and such, stick around just long enough to be sure that I've been seen, then leave. I always carry a camera and never seem to have a problem with taking pictures.

[BillBingham2]

You don't have enough tats to be a biker...

;)

Chassidic bikers don't do that type of art, not kosher. They do have these best threads though. Not to mention the leather straps!

B2 (;->

[Gumby]

I've never had a bad experience with "self-professed authority figures" while photographing. Nor have I had a bad experience with actual law enforcement while photographing. Maybe this pehnomenon is unique to rangefineder camera users. I only use a rangefinder camera when I'm actually a "tourist" so I get away with photography without confrontation.

[dmr]

I should also point out that I've never seen a female photographer harassed the way male photographers do. Although, I did see one girl being asked by a rent-a-cop at a mall why she was taking photos. That's been the only time.

I've never been harassed, but I've been asked not to shoot a few times.

Once was by a maintenance worker in the Chicago subway. He told me that it was "illegal" to shoot in the subway. I knew it was legal, but I didn't feel like arguing, so I feigned an apology and moved on -- and continued shooting. I actually have a photo which includes the guy, about 2/3 down the way on this page:

http://omababe.blogspot.com/2008/02/beneath-windy-city.html

Another was in the Westward Ho casino a few weeks before it closed. I was shooting the outside of the building, stepped inside, raised the camera to my eye and he was right on me, but extremely nice and very apologetic. He asked me very nicely not to shoot in the casino. How can you ever refuse a request like that? :)

The most interesting one was not really a confrontation, but where I realized that a security guy was watching me closely. I actually got a few good shots of him keeping an eye on me. They are here:

http://omababe.blogspot.com/2007/01/forbidden-images-polishing-bean.html

I think that since women are less likely to be confrontive or to escalate a situation, we can get away with more, in these cases, than men do.

Sexist? Perhaps. :)

Oh well ... :)

[Bill Pierce]

would that friend happen to be arthur grace?

Of course. State Fair was his last book. He's working on another now.

[nikon_sam]

How do you deal with these self-appointed authority figures?



If they are spewing "Laws and Policies" at me I will politely ask to "See" this policy "In Writing"...
I have also complied to requests not to photography when I know that the person asking is right...At a local Central Market in Los Angeles I was asked not to photograph inside but was also told that if I went to the front of the market I could try there...he also mentioned that I do this where the Market Security people wouldn't be able to see me...
I knew he was right so I decided to go somewhere else...

So far I haven't been harrassed at Union Station while photographing inside the station or around the trains...only once did this happen and that was because I was using a tripod...

At our local "Outside Mall" I was shooting and was asked to stop...I asked to see their policy in writing and all they would say was that it was "Confidential" and I couldn't see it...All they could do to stop me was inform me that I was on "Private Property" and they could remove me for trespassing...
I asked if they were stopping everyone with a camera because I could see mom's taking photos with their phones or small P&S...They said that that was alright because their kids were in the photos...I guess if I had taken my daughter with me and placed her somewhere in the shot I would have been good to go...
The policeman that was called to the scene heard both sides and then made a phone call of his own...He stated to the security guard that I had done nothing wrong and that he could not do anything about me photographing in the mall...BUT the only thing he could do is enforce the "No Trespassing" laws in favor of the mall...

[Chuck Albertson]

Shoot first, answer questions later, explain with a disarming smile that I can't delete that image because it's on film, move away. An assertive, not aggressive, attitude gets you through a lot of situations ("What policy is that?"). Never tell them I'm a lawyer, that just seems to arouse their contempt.

I usually strike out with *appointed* authority figures, though, like that cop in Terminal 1 on Saturday. I always lose arguments to someone carrying an MP5 (that's not a Leica special edition).

[Rob-F]

An old curmudgeon like me stiffens in resistance when told he can't photograph somewhere he knows is in legally secure territory.

But, the resistance usually takes the form of calm, reasoned and charming argument so that the would-be enforcer ends up showing me the best places to get my shot.

OKay, well maybe not EVERY time!

That's what I call effective conflict resolution skills!

While I was photographing an office building one afternoon, a security guard came out to ask if I had permission. I explained you don't need permission to photograph anything you can see while standing on the public sidewalk, although it might be nice to ask if you can photograph a person. She said, "OK, thank you" and went back inside.

I think during the Bush administration people became very confused about this. It should get better now.

[Gumby]

While I was photographing an office building one afternoon, a security guard came out to ask if I had permission. I explained you don't need permission to photograph anything you can see while standing on the public sidewalk, although it might be nice to ask if you can photograph a person. She said, "OK, thank you" and went back inside.


That is the pseudo-authoritative way of saying "what are you doing; I'm curious." Too bad they aren't taught better interaction skills in their security guard training.

[Roger Hicks]

I should also point out that I've never seen a female photographer harassed the way male photographers do.

Bluewater, Kent (shopping mall).

Frances (my wife) is using a Contax SLR and 35/1.4. I'm using a Bessa-L and 15/4.5.

She's stopped and told she needs a permit. But I'm just using a 'snapshot' camera and am left alone.

This in not the only time we've seen this syndrome at work. It's the camera, at least as much as the photograper.

Cheers,

R.

[F456]

I worried about the growing dislike of photographers when I went to Blackpool to do some hobby reportage last summer. Strangely in the event I had no bad vibes at all from anyone, not even the drunks. On one occasion I had been shooting for 45 minutes in a fairly busy arcade with those machines that kind of snowplough all the penny coins. Then I saw a 'Photography Prohibited' notice. Even so, nobody gave me any hassle; it was a real live and let live sort of atmosphere.

I wonder why. I think my defusing skills are pretty good, and I don't go round shoving 21mms up everyone's nose. I use Leicas, which are mostly quiet but the M8 is not that quiet. There must be more to it than that.

Maybe it's that most of the employees are Polish and are too concerned with important things like earning a living to worry about me and my camera. Maybe it's because people go to Blackpool to relax, so they are not as stressed as usual. Maybe it's just a touristy place so cameras are what you expect. Maybe it's true that a 35mm on a rangefinder looks less serious and less intrusive than a big body with a long zoom.

I agree with Ian Berry's approach. If he got any negative response at the start of a shoot he packed up and called it a day; if it started well he found the whole day went well.

At a slight tangent, I'm lucky to work in a British school where photography of pupils and events is actively encouraged: the parents love it because they can get pictures of events they don't otherwise get access to; the school loves it because they get an illustrated website; I love it because it's a paid (costs only in the main) hobby. We quietly withdrew a form sent out to parents by the last marketing boss about withholding consent for appearances in photos and school magazines - nobody has noticed, let alone complained. In a private school this is all good for business. In those state schools where it's not even permitted for pupils to play outdoors in break for fear of physical injury if they fall over.. enough said.

How long it will continue this way is another matter, but so far, so good.

Tom

[F456]

Bluewater, Kent (shopping mall).

Frances (my wife) is using a Contax SLR and 35/1.4. I'm using a Bessa-L and 15/4.5.

She's stopped and told she needs a permit. But I'm just using a 'snapshot' camera and am left alone.

This in not the only time we've seen this syndrome at work. It's the camera, at least as much as the photograper.

Cheers,

R.

I've read similar findings by Nikon digital users. A friend of mine went to events with a D200 and small-sized lens after finding that with the D2X and a larger f/2.8 zoom he attracted attention from officials.

For a while I used an Olympus Trip compact with a hammerhead Metz! Wonder what people would make of that? I did it because I could set the apertures and film speed on the camera, so it was a great compact.

Tom

[sojournerphoto]

With regard to the topic of authoritarianism...

Authoritarianism 'fixes' the problem of the overpaid CEO's, but it also 'fixes' the problem of parents who think no one ought be able to take a photograph of their kid without their permission, or of paranoid citizens who think people taking photos of trains ought not be permitted to do so. In a new world of make-um-up laws that pander (at first) to the zeitgeist, there is no give-and-take or weighing of public necessity versus individual liberties when imposing law; every authoritarian response comes to be about keeping public order, without regard to freedom, liberty, or the rule of law.



italso fixes the problem of parents who want to educate their own children, and again the revolt starts at the populist level...

[Tom Rymour]

A couple of years back I was on multiple flights from Joburg to NYC qnd back via London and Glasgow. I was a wee bit worried about fast film being X-rayed too often. When I asked the goon at Glasgow Airport if he would mind hand checking my rolls, he informed me that I could put them through the machine, or he would strip the film out of the cartridges. I call such creatures "The Children of Osama".

[Spider67]

I once was confronted by a security guard of a Jewellers shop right in the center of Vienna (a tourist area) when I took photos with the shop's windows in them.
They told me thgings about laws prohibiting taking photos of shops. So I just went inside the shop talked to the manager, who allowed me to "Take pics of whatever I wanted" just to get rid of me. I would not have done that if that had not happended 5 minutes away from my appartement....
Meanwhile I have chat now and then with the same guards, whom I had assured that this was not personal, but simply stupid infos by the suits from the shop....And yes RFF was an inspiration for my behaviour

[DanOnRoute66]

Last spring I was working as a subcontractor to a photo firm shooting a large soccer tournament. While I was working a guy bumped into me and walked away without apologizing for doing so. Some time later I got bumped again but didn't realize until he was several steps away that it was the same guy as earlier that day. When it happened a third time -- same guy, same day -- I was ready for a showdown. The guy was an assistant coach of one team or another and he eventually told me something about how he didn't like the way I was "concentrating" on taking pictures of the girl soccer players. I told him I was there working, as a professional, and that I concentrate on every shot. I told him I wouldn't hesitate to call the police if he bumped me again. So the world if full of jerks and not all of them carry badges and sidearms.

[bmattock]

I happened upon this blog the other day. Similar situation, crazy person scared the bejabbers out of a young lady just doing her job, to inform her that it was illegal for her to take photographs of people in public.

http://elginjessica.wordpress.com/2009/08/04/i-am-a-crazy-magnet/

Crazy, crazy, crazy.

[gb hill]

It's probably going to get much worse. Look at what is going on with health care. People speaking out against this current bill exercising their rights, people are being attacked at town hall meetings & the White House wants you to report anything deemed fishy to flag@whitehouse.gov? Obama said & I quote [If they bring a knife you bring a gun] I know he didn't mean that literally, but what is this attitude saying to people!

[peterm1]

It seems this kind of cr*p is permeating society. I regularly shoot in my local mall - results seen here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/80702381@N00/sets/72157610362797162/

We have unemployed (sometimes unemployable) people standing around selling a magazine called the "Big Issue" - Damned if I know whats in it, could be blank pages for all I know. One such guy who sees me there a lot (I work nearby and always bring a camera with me) spoke to me last week. At first I though he was just being friendly and I responded in kind. But shortly thereafter he began lecturing me that taking photos in the mall is illegal under the "Security and Surveillance Act." There is no such Act of course except in this guys addled brain. I am afraid I was terribly short with the gentleman. I inquired if he knew a bit about the law. When he responded that he did and that I should definitely read the law as I was performing an illegal act I then asked him why he was not a lawyer instead of an unemployed social misfit who did not have a real job.

I acknowledge now the error of my ways and I felt bad after wards as maybe he was genuinely trying to help me (and as my mother used to tell me, "its wicked to mock the afflicted" but I am sick of this kind of semi sentient being with their imagined offences dominating our hobby. It only takes a complaint to the authorities from this kind of brain addled misfit and we are the ones who have to justify ourselves as inoffensive as we are.

Maybe its something about social conformance - most societies demand its members behave like sheep. If you are doing something that the run of the mill member would not do and could not comprehend themselves doing they respond violently. They understand that photography can be a business (ah yes - you are a (capital P) Photographer for the local newspaper, I get that!) and they accept this -- but someone taking pictures for art!!!!!!!!!!

That's what perverts and terrorists do!

[Jason Sprenger]

You did okay in my book, Peter. The addled have been molly-coddled for too long and have grown not only annoying, but overly bold and unacceptably rude.

You also have a point about social conformance. However, the self-appointed authority is not unlike the bully in the school yard. If not stood up to, things will only get worse for everybody.

[David Murphy]

If you try to take pictures of jewelry shops in Hong Kong they send goons out to the side walk to confront you. Street photography there is quite legal however.

I once was confronted by a security guard of a Jewellers shop right in the center of Vienna (a tourist area) when I took photos with the shop's windows in them.
They told me thgings about laws prohibiting taking photos of shops. So I just went inside the shop talked to the manager, who allowed me to "Take pics of whatever I wanted" just to get rid of me. I would not have done that if that had not happended 5 minutes away from my appartement....
Meanwhile I have chat now and then with the same guards, whom I had assured that this was not personal, but simply stupid infos by the suits from the shop....And yes RFF was an inspiration for my behaviour

[David Murphy]

I'm taking my son to the car races tonight. The rules on the track web site say no "professional-type" cameras are allowed -- I guess this excludes an SLR with a telephoto zoom -- so much for my career as a speedway photographer :-)

[35mmdelux]

I came up on a Marine Corps house in Costa Rica that had been bombed a few months earleir by Sandinista Revolutionaries (1984). Ignorantly I took a few pictures. A block down the street two jeeps cornered me and 5-6 armed guys asked me why I was taking fotos. I told them I liked the neighborhood and that I was an American, which he could probably tell from my accent.

I used my pursuasive powers successfully that day, but given the circumstances I should have ripped the film out and handed it to him. These guys were pro and 1 or 2 could have polished me off or at least broken my camera.

Closer to home I'm more belligerent. My responses always include the words "why," "according to whom," and "How am I supposed to know without a sign."

[David Murphy]

35mmdelux. Nice story. Now, who are you working for and who sent you here?

I came up on a Marine Corps house in Costa Rica that had been bombed a few months earleir by Sandinista Revolutionaries (1984). Ignorantly I took a few pictures. A block down the street two jeeps cornered me and 5-6 armed guys asked me why I was taking fotos. I told them I liked the neighborhood and that I was an American, which he could probably tell from my accent.

I used my pursuasive powers successfully that day, but given the circumstances I should have ripped the film out and handed it to him. These guys were pro and 1 or 2 could have polished me off or at least broken my camera.

Closer to home I'm more belligerent. My responses always include the words "why," "according to whom," and "How am I supposed to know without a sign."

[Ronald_H]

To be frank, I never had problems in the Netherlands. I'm not much of a traveller, but I do take a camera practically everywhere. I don't like confrontations, but I can stand my ground.

A few months ago there was an oldtimer festival in town. Someone in a gorgeous Porsche Speedster was about to get a parking ticket, For some reason our local law enforcement was driving around on Segways. While they were buzzing around the Porsche and in a heating discussion with the owner, I took a number of shots. They looked at me suspiciously, but nothing happened.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3382/3578773462_6f994c2389_o.jpg

[FrozenInTime]

For some reason our local law enforcement was driving around on Segways. While they were buzzing around the Porsche and in a heating discussion with the owner, I took a number of shots. They looked at me suspiciously, but nothing happened.

After seeing the film 'Mall Cop' on a recent flight across to the states, I can no longer take cops on Segways seriously :D

[kuzano]

"Hey, I'm just practicing. I don't even have film in this camera!"

For when I'm shooting digital.

For when I'm shooting film, I have a used film cassette in my pocket. I palm it, and fiddle with my camera. It looks as if I am taking the film out of the camera. I strip the film out of the cassette and yell, "There.... Are you satisfied?"

[endustry]

I've only been confronted twice. Neither person had any authority and both were upset because I was photographing public demonstrations. One was some kind of Arab event though I was unsure what the specific cause was. Some man came over yelling at me in a language I couldn't understand and tried to grab my arm. The other was a group of political agitators in Times Square banging pot lids together and chanting about the war in Iraq. A strange woman started pointing and yelling at me. Both got the middle finger. If you're in public and making a ruckus, you should expect to be photographed. End of story.

If Al Kaplan doesn't take any s**t, neither will I.

[AgentX]

If you're in public and making a ruckus, you should expect to be photographed. End of story.

If Al Kaplan doesn't take any s**t, neither will I.

The cops and security guards may think you're a terrorist, and the agitators and revolutionaries think you're a cop. Funny thing, that.

[peterm1]

The cops in Australia are usually pretty cool The conversation is something like this "Guddai maaite wotcher doing?" "Taking photos" "No wurries mate"

But from time to time I have some self appointed nincompoop presume to tell me that I cannot take photos here, there or somewhere else. If its an enclosed mall and the person is a mall cop usually I just say "no wurries mate" myself, and wander off. If its in a public area they get a lecture on the law of privacy and if they persist I tell them to bugger off and threaten to call the police and have them charged with harassment. That usually sorts the matter out.

[wgerrard]

Anything you can photograph you can look at. While the mall cop is pestering some photographer, the Real Bad Guy is probably standing a few feet away memorizing every detail.

I would think the "Have you stopped everyone with a camera phone?" argument would carry some legal weight, since they'd need to establish that something about you or your camera was illegal versus all those cellphones.

[Bnack]

funny... I was contemplating this question the other day. I saw a movie (Adam...and I recommend it) and a man who has had a tough day stops at school to watch the children playing in the schoolyard. It follows that someone saw and called the cops on him. Frankly, I think it's just sad that we seem to assume the worst in people these days. Maybe it's too much news and internet... maybe it's always been that way.. not sure... but I still find it sad.

[MacDaddy]

SO FAR the only time I was confronted was while shooting the rococo trim of a 1940's apartment building. A belligerent tenant came up to me (I was in the street at the time-well into public property) and demanded I hand her my film. I explained that first, a digital camera HAS no film and second, that I bluntly found her quite boring compared to the architecture and wouldn't waste my energies photographing HER!
When she turned and stalked off, I took a VERY unflattering photo of her from behind just for spite and then anonymously mailed a copy to the building management to share with the tenants ! (It's amazing how distorted a butt gets when photographed from ground level!)
Ain't I BAD!!??? *o)

[MCTuomey]

my response to an authoritiarian demand on the street is proportionally calm, firm, and polite. mostly i try to shoot with confidence, giving the appearance that i'm supposed to be there doing what i'm doing. i'll get the occasional challenge, no biggie. based on my experience, i seem to have more difficulty with folks with arabic background. i think i understand the sensitivity to photo-taking on their part.

one incident in Detroit's Eastern Market this summer was memorable. i had just snagged a couple of exposures of an arabic woman wearing the burkah in what seemed lovely light. kept walking after the shots. about a block away i become aware that i'm being chased. this fellow grabs my shoulder from behind, stops me, and starts proclaiming loudly right in my face that i've insulted him, his wife, and family. he's angry. he wants my film. now i'm kinda large (6'3" and about 230#) but no matter, this guy's aggressive. i looked him in the eye and said slowly, "you know, i took those pictures because your wife is beautiful and that's what i try to shoot: beauty. i'm sorry you see it differently. i meant no disrespect." he stared hard at me. i thought for a moment he was looking to have a go. then he said, "oh, okay, i didn't know." and he walked away without another word. sometimes a compliment can defuse a confrontation.

[Turtle]

I made the mistake of taking street photos in the wake of Diana's death. To the supicious it was incredulous that I could be claiming to take street shots because I enjoyed it. I had to have an ulterior motive related to [instert: abusing/perving over/plotting/snooping] + [insert: children/celebrities/women/].

[shiro_kuro]

When shooting at night in Waikiki along Kuhio Ave. I always get asked if I am with the liquor commission or a cop ...... tell them yes and please don't smile for the camera ; )

The other night a street artist set up on a public side walk ,told me I could not photograph him or his work ..that it was illegal and his work is protected blah blah blah.....I did not realize he was talking to me until he made a move to push my camera away.... the funny thing ..I was not photographing him at all or his work .. though I thought about beating him about the head with my Makina . I mean you just don't touch a man's camera ..; )

I usually stand my ground when confronted .. I am realizing more and more its not worth it .. just keep moving and don't let people suck your energy ... try and stay invisible and keep shooting .

[MCTuomey]

I usually stand my ground when confronted .. I am realizing more and more its not worth it .. just keep moving and don't let people suck your energy ... try and stay invisible and keep shooting.

Agree - it's the shooting that matters so let the other "stuff" pass.

[OurManInTangier]

For me there is no one method; just deal with each case as it comes. I used to get really annoyed when confronted by someone who immediately treated me like a criminal or pervert. However calmness, an authorative tone and demeanour plus a little knowledge is the answer.

As an aside, most of the times I've been told to stop shooting have been when I've been using an SLR. Though Al's advice about wearing a suit rings true in my experience. I finished covering an event in London, one that required me wearing a suit ... albeit a cheap and comfortable one. Having finished early I got the pictures sent out and spent the remainder of the day wondering around with my camera and a 35mm lens. It soon became clear that despite being 'noticed' by both members of the public, police officers and so called RentaCops, nobody seemed to think I should be approached.

I'm now wondering if the next step is top hat and tails which may allow me full access to whatever I want:D

Its a worrying trend but more often than not easily resolved in the photographers favour. Though a very good point was made regarding there being a large number of places that we, as photographers, cannot expect to have a right to photograph without prior permission being sought ... this is something that also needs to be kept in mind if we hope and expect for sense/reason to prevail.

[Al Kaplan]

There's more to it than just wearing "a suit and tie". The idea is to blend in with the top people. If it's someplace you go frequently you can get very specific in your dress. Is a blazer and slacks acceptable or do the top executives wear suits? Cuffs or no cuffs? Pleats or plain front. Spread collar or button down shirts? White, or can you wear light blue or French blue? Go for natural fabrics. If loafers are OK should they be tassel or penney loafers? Lace up dress shoes give you a choice between wing tip or cap toe. If in doubt wear cap toes. Ties should always be silk; they knot and drape better because they're limp. As a photographer you're looked upon as a "creative person" so you can get a bit wilder here than an accountant. No need to stick to rep stripes but don't go crazy with wild colors and designs. A bit of red is a symbol of power.

All of these things send subtle messages about your standing in the overall order of things. Tell yourself that you are the president of YOUR company, and look the part. Stand and walk like you have a purpose. Be friendly but speak with authority. You don't want to come across as lording it over anybody. It's all about creating illusions...LOL...and it works.

[Dave Wilkinson]

All of these things send subtle messages about your standing in the overall order of things. Tell yourself that you are the president of YOUR company, and look the part. Stand and walk like you have a purpose. Be friendly but speak with authority. You don't want to come across as lording it over anybody. It's all about creating illusions...LOL...and it works. and a new M9 would really put the icing on the cake Al!....have you got your name down? :D
Dave;)

[Al Kaplan]

Dave, actually for reasons I don't quite understand, I seem to get more favorable comments on Leicas showing a bit of brass, things like "Boy, I bet THAT camera has some stories it could tell!" That old button rewind M2 of mine was at the 1968 Mexico City Olympics, both the Democratic and Republican conventions in 1972, photographed several presidents and presidential candidates at private parties... Changing from ties and jacket to tie dyed T-shirts and jeans I took it to several rock festivals. It's partied with Jefferson Airplane, the Grateful Dead, Ike and Tina Turner, and might still have the faint odor of cannibus smoke, and perhaps even some traces of white powder mixed into the hard-as-rock grunge in the knurlings. People enjoy the stories and the negatives can always be scanned.

No, my name is NOT down on the list. It'd be too much trouble to teach new cameras how to operate me. I'm extremely complicated and I can't find the instruction book. Also, my doc tells me that I'm out of warranty.

http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com

[OurManInTangier]

I demur to Al here, you're clearly an elegant and sartorially aware gent, whereas I know nothing of these things...I haven't even heard of wing-tips:o:D

Not only can I learn about photography here at RFF I can also learn about the upper echelons of men's tailoring. Though my wife hogs most of the cupboard and drawer space so I shan't be able to expand my wardrobe considerably.

[nikon_sam]

On Wednesday I was shooting in Los Angeles and happen to see that there was a company doing a location shoot (At City Hall)
I climbed up the steps and took a look around...they were shooting something for a cable type sit-com...I was noticed by this one lady who made a bee-line to where I was standing and she asked if I not shoot "Her" scene or actors...I was very nice but did ask...What if I decide to shoot anyway...what could she do about that...and I actually said that there was nothing she could do if I did...
Her reply to that , after a bit of thought, was that she could get fired...
She then went to another person and talked with him about my having a camera and that was the end of it...
I didn't take any photos but not because of her...I'm not a big fan of this show and didn't want to waste any film on it...
Maybe in her own world (studio set) she can tell people what to do but out in the real world and on Public Property she has no power...I think she just figured that out...