View Full Version : Bloody Vertical Line Problem
I have faced with a huge vertical line problem with my Leica M8. I have 10 more months for guarantee so I sent it back. But since some other users reported the same problem for their copies I am very concerned in the long run. Even if they supply me a new one, I may not be sure about that it won't happen again in some time and if I am in a out of guarantee situation then this would make me really crazy.
I am thinking about what if almost all M8s have this vertical line problem but some will become apparent in the long run, when people use their M8s much more. I have used many DSLRs from Canon and Nikon and I did not suspect any such problem. I think we should determine how much per cent of M8s have this problem.
If any of you guys have any idea about this issue please let us know that. And users of M8, please check whether you have this problem. Since you need to check for it carefully in order to detect, maybe some of us do have this problem but they are not aware of it.
Respect,
Serkan
kipkeston
01-15-2009, 01:30
That's interesting. I've seen a vertical line on mine in the lower right corner with high iso (2500) and severely underexposed. Otherwise it doesn't show up and obviously I try to avoid such conditions.
tom.w.bn
01-15-2009, 01:52
Whatever the vertical line problem is. Do you mean the banding problem that can happen when you hava light directly from the front?
Could you please be more specific or direct me to some sample pictures?
Thank you.
kipkeston: I think I had this one on high iso settings but recently another huge vertical line becomes apparent at all iso settings. And that was depressing. That's why I am concerned about in long run.
tom.w.bn.: I don't have the files with me right now. I may upload them but you can see some other examples in this forum with the "vertical line problem" tag. and that is not the banding problem. I also got banding problem but I think M8s already have that one and it only emerges in some certain situations.
Goldorak
01-15-2009, 19:56
That's the dreaded but well known Leica M8 problem.
emraphoto
01-15-2009, 20:03
well, i know that line... you'r m8 is pooched. they will more than likely replace it and if they don't, demand it.
it's a sensor problem that was prevalent in the first batch of m8's.
all the folks i know who had the issue ended up with a new m8, me included.
the good news is the replacement m8 they sent me worked flawlessly for a year and a half of daily use... heavy, daily use.
tmfabian
01-15-2009, 20:04
That's the dreaded but well known Leica M8 problem.
here, let me fix that for you...
That's the dreaded but well known digital sensor problem.
I've been teaching a class on studio lighting this semester and just 2 weeks into it I've seen 3 cameras have sensor fails out of 2 classes of 10 students each from both nikon and canon and each camera was less than 6 months old.
Remember...digital cameras, no matter how many megapixels they can cram into them right now/how advanced we think they are, are still a young technology and are subject to these kinds of issues which is why warranties are important.
Gabriel M.A.
01-15-2009, 20:52
I've seen 3 cameras have sensor fails out of 2 classes of 10 students each from both nikon and canon and each camera was less than 6 months old.
Oh no! Not flawless dirt-cheap it can leap off tall buildings, fly faster than a speeding bullet and X-ray vision Uber-Nikon! Is this the beginning of the end for Nikon?
Surely you must be lying and be on Leica's payroll :rolleyes:
Goldorak
01-15-2009, 20:53
Fix what for me?
The M8 (maybe only the early ones?) are notorious for this particular problem, and like emraphoto said, Leica will or at least should replace the camera regardless if it is under warranty or not. That problem is too present in the M8 line. Everybody knows it, Leica knows it.
Some Nikon or Canon cameras may have this problem but I think it is not that common. If only early production M8s do exhibit this problem, Leica must have been call all this M8s back to Solms. But as Goldorak said, if even it is present in the M8 line now, that may be huge disaster for Leica. And also what if the problem emerges after your guarantee period is over? Do you have any idea how much Leica will charge you to replace M8 sensor?
emraphoto
01-15-2009, 23:13
i may be wrong but i don't think it is a problem that comes on gradually... i think the sensor displays the problem or it doesn't. it may take you a while to notice, or it may take a certain circumstance to show it's face.
just send it off, email a file or two showing it to the person you have called and are holding accountable at leica (hint hint) and say you want it replaced. if you let them "check it out" or "try and fix it" it will be months before you see it. as well confirm all the items you sent off with the m8 as it goes back to leica. email it to said leica rep and make sure you get it all back.
it sucks to lose the camera for a while but in the long run you are going to want a new one. try and squeeze another year of warranty out of them.
Emraphoto, this is not like that. I don't have a huge vertical line in my photos previously (after using it about a year). Maybe a few vertical line in high iso setting but not this one which can be detected in all iso settings. Recently, a huge vertical line which also have a light spot on it, has emerged. It seems this is a gradual problem and this makes me crazy about this camera.
I am considering to exchange my M8 (if they send me a new one and also in Turkey, guarantee agreement conditions do have a clause of sending new one if it can't be repaired in 30 days) with a M7 and film scanner.
emraphoto
01-16-2009, 05:31
yeah, mine wasn't huge either... quite thin actually. but hey, when you are paying that kind of $ for a camera then it shouldn't be an issue.
i am sure they will have to replace it as the only fix possible is a new sensor.
good luck!
tom.w.bn
01-16-2009, 05:58
Did some research about the vertical lines, took some photos to check it. No problem.
Good for you Tom. Hope you don't see them in the future. Leica service called me today. He said he saw and reported the problem to SOlms and behaf of that problem he detect 3 dead pixels.
Does anyone have any idea about what Leica would do if the guarantee period over? They may stand back to their cameras after guarantee is over.
Praxis Unitas
01-25-2009, 02:48
Upgrade the shutter or something. Then it will be under warranty again. It's expensive (and a workaround that shouldn't be required), but the shutter is nice, too.
LeicaMSeattle
03-05-2009, 08:24
I just sent my M8 in to Leica because of fluorescing pixels along with one dead pixel where a line extends through the image from. I discovered these artifacts after a recent shoot where I was shooting ISO 640 @ f2 in the darker regions of the image. The pixels show up as red, blue, and green spots in about half of the images.
Viktor Sebastian
03-17-2009, 19:00
Is this an example of the Problem?
Voigtlander 12mm. M8, no warranty :(
http://thedarkness.co.nz/labs/files/banding.jpg
endrenovak
03-21-2009, 06:46
indeed,the issue is there. just noticed it yesterday and found this thread now.
camera is 2 weeks old, new rather. "my line" - perhaps we can call it - Miline
is just in the middle of the image area, like halving it. oh. yeah, really nice :mad:
sepiareverb
03-21-2009, 07:36
Is this an example of the Problem?
Voigtlander 12mm. M8, no warranty :(
http://thedarkness.co.nz/labs/files/banding.jpg
at least he's pointing to it.;)
b.espahbod
03-21-2009, 14:04
M8 10702 is fixed this & problem will never happen but for the 10701 its still a ticking bomb
I have 333XXXX sn M8, and have the same line problem, sent to Leica today :(
I have 3107xxx with no blue line problem. Also have # 3101xxx that has a vertical one-pixel blue line from edge to edge about 2760 pixels to the right of the left edge of the horizontal frame. 640 ISO.
Not so visible with noise reduction in processing or with jpeg output, but with sharp no-noise reduction TIFFs it's most obvious in dark areas of the image seen at 100%. I've had the camera for over a year, but had never done this level of pixel-peeping until I heard about the blue line problem and set out to check my gear.
The M8 with that problem has just been sent to PopFlash, where I bought it as a "demo" with no warranty card, and they assure me they'll work it out. Good service. I enclosed with the bare camera body a CD with two original DNG files and processed matching TIFFs with orange arrows at each end of the line. I'll see if I can create and attach a 100% crop...
Endre, yours looks different... maybe some kind of banding?
Viktor Sebastian
06-16-2009, 02:00
at least he's pointing to it.;)
Yea I know, it’s a bit weird aye.
Is this an example of the Problem?
Voigtlander 12mm. M8, no warranty :(
http://thedarkness.co.nz/labs/files/banding.jpg
No. In certain circumstances (bright highlight just on the edge of the image) every M8 will do this. There is no cure. Fortunately it does not happen too often. I saw it in three shots in 20.000
Just receive my M8 after hot pixel-line repair from NJ, look like OK, shutter now is much smooth, no more clacked sound, interesting, they replaced CCD.
What's the easiest way to test for this? I can't see it shooting in a variety of lighting situations, is it only seen in RAW? Does it show on the LCD at all?
No. In certain circumstances (bright highlight just on the edge of the image) every M8 will do this. There is no cure. Fortunately it does not happen too often. I saw it in three shots in 20.000
sepiareverb
08-02-2009, 06:07
What's the easiest way to test for this? I can't see it shooting in a variety of lighting situations, is it only seen in RAW? Does it show on the LCD at all?
The green bloom should appear on the LCD, the line won't, it is 1 pixel or 2 wide, so a walk across a developed RAW file shot at higher ISO's viewed at 200% is the way to look.
If you are out of warranty I was told it would be $1500 to replace the sensor in NJ.
There seem to be a couple different types or variations of the line problem. See my details in post #23. Since then it's gone back to Leica USA and got a new sensor, with thanks to Tony at PopFlash for handling it smoothly. You can bet I closely examined current 100% TIFFs having no noise reduction and assured myself there's no problem now.
sepiareverb
12-21-2009, 16:01
Mine seems 100% as well since coming home.
Mine seems 100% as well since coming home.Very comforting isn't it, to have the problems thoroughly banished! I took mine on vacation recently, working perfectly other than a bit of dust on the sensor. Ah.... :)
darkspark
12-22-2009, 11:16
Since then it's gone back to Leica USA and got a new sensor, with thanks to Tony at PopFlash for handling it smoothly...
Do you have the name of the contact person at Leica USA? I'm trying to get mine fixed/sensor replaced, but so far 2 reps I've been talking to are not very helpful in this regard and only say that this is part of the M8 algorithm...(so on and so forth) and is not offering me a sensor fix/replacement
Hi -- Sorry, I had my dealer handle it. A lady from Leica USA did phone for confirmation and a first-hand description of the problem after she got the first fax from the dealer, but I didn't get her name. As I described in detail the blue line appearance and orientation it was clear she recognized the symptoms. I also had the shutter and viewfinder upgrades done at the same time for convenience.
Gabriel M.A.
12-22-2009, 14:24
Do you have the name of the contact person at Leica USA? I'm trying to get mine fixed/sensor replaced, but so far 2 reps I've been talking to are not very helpful in this regard and only say that this is part of the M8 algorithm...(so on and so forth) and is not offering me a sensor fix/replacement
They must be either temps or really incompetent. If you get a third person to say this to you, do get their name. They should be fired for talking out of their ...
darkspark
12-22-2009, 16:19
They must be either temps or really incompetent. If you get a third person to say this to you, do get their name. They should be fired for talking out of their ...
Oh, I've been emailing with people higher up who have the word "manager" in their titles (I don't want to be more specific and get them in trouble)... I kept getting transfer from one level of people to another. And mind you, my problem has more than just one-pixel line at high ISO; but in some cases--multiple lines, and in one of my pictures--a wide streak of bright blue band going across a picture (around 5-10% of the picture width). Of course I sent samples to show the range of my problem (4 different original DNGs)... After a month of waiting for email replies, now still I'm waiting for an email reply from another "manager" (higher up)...
I'm starting to think that they are caring less and less about M8 service after the M9 came out(?)... My M8 is out of warranty as I bought it used from a forum member. Though I paid Leica USA (NJ) out of my own pocket to have the M8 CLA'ed and checked just over a month ago. (I found the vertical line problem not long after getting it back from Leica.)
How should I persuade them into understanding and have the sensor replaced? Any suggestions? I've already mentioned that I know that it's a fairly common problem and a number of online forum members were able to get the sensor replaced... (why not me?? :bang: ) And from the replies I got from different people at Leica USA (NJ), they all seemed to be surprised by my DNG files... taking weeks to look over the problem of what's going on with the DNGs...
Help? Please?
Viktor Sebastian
01-25-2010, 04:56
I’m waiting to hear back from LEICA support to see how much they want to charge me to remap the sensor.
In the mean time, there is free software called pixel fixer that will remove the line caused by a dead pixel. All you need to do is download the software and add the pixel coordinates for the dead pixel and it can batch process your DNG files and remove the vertical lines.
http://www.pixelfixer.org/
Too bad Pixelfixer doesn't run on Mac. On my shots taken before the sensor was fixed by LeicaUSA, I have been removing the line in the TIFF files manually. I locate the line (always in the same place, so relatively easy), Select All, move the near border of the selection to be adjacent to the line, hit the appropriate arrow key, which moves the selected part to close up the unwanted line. Save and go to the next. Of course this won't work on TIFFs that were rotated a bit in RAW processing...
Oh, I've been emailing with people higher up who have the word "manager" in their titles (I don't want to be more specific and get them in trouble)... I kept getting transfer from one level of people to another. And mind you, my problem has more than just one-pixel line at high ISO; but in some cases--multiple lines, and in one of my pictures--a wide streak of bright blue band going across a picture (around 5-10% of the picture width). Of course I sent samples to show the range of my problem (4 different original DNGs)... After a month of waiting for email replies, now still I'm waiting for an email reply from another "manager" (higher up)...
I'm starting to think that they are caring less and less about M8 service after the M9 came out(?)... My M8 is out of warranty as I bought it used from a forum member. Though I paid Leica USA (NJ) out of my own pocket to have the M8 CLA'ed and checked just over a month ago. (I found the vertical line problem not long after getting it back from Leica.)
How should I persuade them into understanding and have the sensor replaced? Any suggestions? I've already mentioned that I know that it's a fairly common problem and a number of online forum members were able to get the sensor replaced... (why not me?? :bang: ) And from the replies I got from different people at Leica USA (NJ), they all seemed to be surprised by my DNG files... taking weeks to look over the problem of what's going on with the DNGs...
Help? Please?
I full CLA should have gotten you a certificate for a full year guaranty - I am starting to get the feeling somebody over there has taken a dislike against you....
M8 10702 is fixed this & problem will never happen but for the 10701 its still a ticking bomb
From what I can see the 10702 is the chrome version, and the 10701 is the black version.... are there other differences?
If not how can it be that the vertical line problem is fixed in the chrome but not the black version?
Regards
Jim
Well, Jim... As it happened, my chrome 10702 DID have the problem, and the camera was fixed at LeicaUSA last July. My black 10701 did not have the line problem then, but recently I've seen a hot pixel appear at higher ISO, so I need to look into that further.
Viktor Sebastian
01-27-2010, 13:20
If you download a program called crossover it will work.
Too bad Pixelfixer doesn't run on Mac.
darkspark
01-30-2010, 20:39
I full CLA should have gotten you a certificate for a full year guaranty - I am starting to get the feeling somebody over there has taken a dislike against you....
I thought so, but I can't get a confirmation from them about sensor replacement (which is the worst case fix, correct?)... [They say that they don't know for sure what's wrong with my camera, even after sending in a number of picture samples and explained my case more than once to each person I contacted.]
And without confirmation, I really don't want to waste shipping cost (nearly $100 from the west coast/insured) + a few months waiting without my camera, just to find out that it's going to cost me a lot more (high hundreds, if not thousand of dollars?) for sensor replacement--in which case I will refuse and buy an M9 instead.
Now, I just try to shoot my M8 at low ISO to avoid the line... and save up for an M9...
Leica USA really disappointed me with their customer service, for just this simple issue of letting me know clearly what I should do, and possible costs [or whether it's covered under CLA warranty] in my case. I don't see how it should be too complicated for any of them to find out.
Has any M8.2 been reported for this problem or did Leica tighten the QC with the introduction of the M8.2?
I am on the verge of getting a used M8.2 and feel a bit uncertain regarding the reported issues.
Menos, I have not heard of M8.2 having this line problem. But in any case I would advise buying a used digital-M from a good dealer who will offer a warranty and provide good customer service. When I finally heard about this, and discovered my chrome M8 had it (took a careful search of full-scale TIFFs having no noise reduction), my dealer PopFlash arranged service at Leica and acted as intermediary in shipping and getting the repair at no charge and upgrades done.
It seems that the very first batch of M8s that came out were flawed in various ways. The sensor was one, high ISO performance was another, banding and moire effects, also when very long exposures were used. All through 2007 it was 50-50 you got a proper M8 but by the end of that year the new batch was better. I never had a single problem with my M8 and I have had it for 2,5 years (and over 5000 pics). Covered or not by a guarantee one should definitely send the camera for repair, problems like banding will only get worse.
Doug and Symeon, this sounds encouraging.
I am sure, to check the camera closely.
Do Leica batteries come with a sufficient charge out of the box, to do a few dozen test frames? I would buy a second battery anyway and I am afraid, the dealer is rather careless about fully charging second hand camera batteries.
I bring a computer and plan, to scrutinize the files closely.
I bought the one, I saw at the dealer - it is sweet so far!
Everything, that has been reported about the M8 seems to fit (including the downsides as forbidden ISO 640 and rough shutter release feel,…).
It does not show a dead pixel line or unusual banding in black frames so far.
I like it so far.
Menos, I have not heard of M8.2 having this line problem. But ....
I had to do without my M8.2 for six weeks
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=76482&stc=1&d=1264781063
remphoto
02-07-2010, 08:56
After being treated like that why would you then spend 7000 more with them for a M9? I know leicas are (were) special but there are limits. I thought so, but I can't get a confirmation from them about sensor replacement (which is the worst case fix, correct?)... [They say that they don't know for sure what's wrong with my camera, even after sending in a number of picture samples and explained my case more than once to each person I contacted.]
And without confirmation, I really don't want to waste shipping cost (nearly $100 from the west coast/insured) + a few months waiting without my camera, just to find out that it's going to cost me a lot more (high hundreds, if not thousand of dollars?) for sensor replacement--in which case I will refuse and buy an M9 instead.
Now, I just try to shoot my M8 at low ISO to avoid the line... and save up for an M9...
Leica USA really disappointed me with their customer service, for just this simple issue of letting me know clearly what I should do, and possible costs [or whether it's covered under CLA warranty] in my case. I don't see how it should be too complicated for any of them to find out.
Thanks, Jeicob, I'm now better informed! :o
Gabriel M.A.
03-04-2010, 18:40
forbidden ISO 640
Here's some Nukular Dispair ISO 2500 :rolleyes:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2348/2051721824_4e4f1d5533.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gabrielma/2051721824/)
M8 + 50mm f/1.4 Summilux pre-asph E46 @ ultra ultra super duper forbidden ISO 2500
Here's some Nukular Dispair ISO 2500 :rolleyes:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2348/2051721824_4e4f1d5533.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gabrielma/2051721824/)
M8 + 50mm f/1.4 Summilux pre-asph E46 @ ultra ultra super duper forbidden ISO 2500
Thanks for the proof Gabriel.
After using the M8.2 now for a few weeks, I have learned, that the sensor reacts very different from my R-D1 or the Nikon DSLRs, I use (or pushed BW film for that matter).
With just one stop underexposure, the digital M can show some really nasty banding and noise, where other cameras are behaving more gently.
Exposed properly and even ISO 2500 does provide magnificent quality, which is a bonus, but harder to nail.
The vertical line only happens when you take a photo that's drastically underexposed and try and crank the exposure up in image editing software. M8 .dng files deliver fantastic headroom- better than scanned B&W film, based on my experience with my M8 so far. If you're having to manipulate shots to that extreme then you need to find better lit subjects to shoot, or fork out for a Noctilux.
The vertical line only happens when you take a photo that's drastically underexposed and try and crank the exposure up in image editing software. M8 .dng files deliver fantastic headroom- better than scanned B&W film, based on my experience with my M8 so far. If you're having to manipulate shots to that extreme then you need to find better lit subjects to shoot, or fork out for a Noctilux.
Tim, I have to disagree respectfully to both points.
The vertical line issue does not occur on all cameras - my M8.2 does not show it (I tested in the shop BEFORE buying with a laptop and pushing a underexposed file in Lightroom, to verify this).
I urge everyone, who buys a M8, M8.2, M9, to do the same. There are quite some stories from buyers, who find out about this and other easy, to check for issues AFTER they bought the camera and have a monthly long hassle, to get the issues repaired.
The digital M clearly cannot be bought without seen!
Secondly, the digital M gives a lot less headroom for pushing than BW film or other cameras, I used so far for low light shots.
I can push M8.2 files semi comfortable (but not safe) for usually one stop, before banding and strong shadow noise become uncomfortable.
I shoot Tri-X 400 in low light, metering at ISO 3200 or even ISO 6400, processing with TMax developer, scanning on a flatbed and push shadows for another one or two stops, if needed !
The digital M is far from coming close, to deliver such robust data!
The EPSON R-D1 is another camera, which delivers much more robust files for pushing, while I shoot it most comfortably at ISO 800 and push from there, it can be used under controlled lighting at ISO 1600 and pushed two stops further.
It shows not an as clean exposure, as the M8.2, when perfectly exposed at this high ISO speed, as it will show grain similar to film, but further pushing ALWAYS gave me more headroom, than the more fragile files from the M8.2.
I will not talk about the Nikon D3 sensor here.
The M8.2 delivers beautifully, but boy, should you expose spot on or loose the shadows.
For low light (night time shooting in dark streets), pushed BW film is still king, right with the D3. The EPSON R-D1 comes quite close, while the M8.2 really doesn't like this kind of light and needs more often a few stops more light or a heavy contrast processing, hiding the ugly shadows (like in the excellent ISO2500 image above btw ;)).
I will agree with Menos' diplomatic first few comments. :)
The bright line on my chrome M8 occurred on every shot (ISO was set to 640 throughout), and in normal daylight exposures with no manipulation in post. Most easily visible in shadow/darker areas of the image. But I discovered it only after reading about it and pixel-peeping my TIFF files, some 6 months after purchase. My dealer PopFlash responded immediately and handled the communications with Leica to get it fixed.
After finding the line in my chrome M8 I immediately searched for the same proplem in the files from my black M8, but it was clean.
Well, shoot. The line has now made an appearance in my M8's files. Guess it's time to ship it to Solms. This might be the Summer of Film for me.
Maggie, sorry to hear of your M8's illness. Through my dealer, mine went to New Jersey for the line and also for the shutter and viewfinder upgrades, taking from May 27 through July 5 including shipping time. Not too bad I thought, but hope yours is faster.
Did the lines just start appearing, or did you just start noticing them?
At what ISO, and exposures, if you recall? Thanks, and sorry to hear about this, I hope they rush your fix.
Well, shoot. The line has now made an appearance in my M8's files. Guess it's time to ship it to Solms. This might be the Summer of Film for me.
Looking through my ISO 1250 shots, now that I'm looking for it, I see it as early as February 2009, Ted. It's started to creep into underexposed ISO 640 shots now. Here's an ISO 1250 shot with it:
Chocolatini At Blue Orchid, February, 2009
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3358/3282766869_c3d3c9fb47_b.jpg (http://flickr.com/photos/mediawench/3282766869/in/set-72157617701927394)
Thanks Maggie, I can barely see the line in your photo. Am going to re-check mine at 640, 1250, and 2500 underexposed.
Thanks Maggie, I can barely see the line in your photo. Am going to re-check mine at 640, 1250, and 2500 underexposed.
barely is an understatement. the line in the middle is pretty prevalent in her photo. it is the first thing i saw in that photo.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=78142&stc=1&d=1271276151
M8.2 @1250, underexposed (cropped at both sides)
Here we go again :(
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=80938&stc=1&d=1283013940
hmm, where's jaapv? He seemed to know what serial #'s got free sensor upgrades, and which one just needed some parts.
Jeicob, sorry to see you have this problem; I expect Leica can fix this at no charge to you, and extend the warranty one year. Is this new problem in the same camera as the one last April? What happened later with that camera?
The interesting thing about this instance is that there is a hot pixel on the line about 20% of the way down from the top, while the line goes from top edge to bottom edge. Some I've seen, if I remember correctly, that have a hot pixel, the line extends from the hot pixel to the edge in only one direction. And many do not have a visible hot pixel at all - mine did not; I don't see one on your previous problem example - and the line goes from edge to edge. The line on mine was blue...
Here in Denmark I'm secured by a two year warranty, no problem (except perhaps for the goatskin cover and the 6 week of waiting - both for the second time in one year). It's the same camera and last time (December 2009) the sensor were replaced with a new one (came back dirty though).
The hot pixel in the previous picture is very near the bottom of the frame (so It's there).
The new picture is cropped for better visibility, but the line extent from edge to edge.
It starts with only a dead pixel showing up in more and more pictures, then it starts to make these lines (sometimes short, sometimes only on one side of dead pixel, sometimes from edge to edge) while the errors keeping coming more and more often. My last session had errors in say half the pictures. And I'm only use Phase One and don't have tools like Photoshop to correct any problems, so I'm kind of screwed.
Lightroom/ACR automatically corrects for the problem. So if you only produce and examine your images in lightroom you'd never know you have the problem. Of course, if you can't see it what is the issue again?
Lightroom/ACR automatically corrects for the problem. So if you only produce and examine your images in lightroom you'd never know you have the problem. Of course, if you can't see it what is the issue again?Interesting! Didn't know that, but I think I'd like the problem fixed, visible or not... I use CaptureOne also, then open the TIFFs in shareware GraphicConverter.
I had the problem and had to send the camera to Solms. They replaced the sensor or motherboard, I don't know for sure, and the camera now works fine. Well, a few months later the 6 bits sensor on the mount started to fail in recognizing my Summilux 35mm. The first lamp failed. I had to send the camera to Solms again, etc. But the vertical line problem was a problem known by Leica.
sharkytowers
09-24-2010, 17:42
Lightroom/ACR automatically corrects for the problem. So if you only produce and examine your images in lightroom you'd never know you have the problem. Of course, if you can't see it what is the issue again?
Is there something you have to specifically do in Lightroom to get rid of the dreaded "vertical line"? Because for me it's still there. I have the latest version of LR.
And just to be clear... is it the general consensus that this problem gets progressively worse? I bought an 8.2 hoping to avoid issues like this. My camera is having this problem with only @200 actuations! Boo!
sharkytowers, don't look for a workaround, don't settle with the issue.
There is only one solution: send it in to Solms and have it taken care of.
When I bought my M8.2, I specifically searched for this issue and tried to force it, to show up in all known ways. I got lucky and picked a camera with an excellent sensor (mine doesn't show the also known different sensor half illumination in very high ISO).
As I understand it, Leica Solms acknowledges this issue as an sensor issue, to be solved under warranty. If the camera is out of warranty, ask nicely … if this doesn't work out, bite, scratch and swear and have it repaired.
If you bought the camera from a dealer, push the dealer to the issue, if from a private person, you are on your own with Leica, which shouldn't be less productive.
Good luck!
New sensor and I'm back in buisness :)
Came back with a dirty sensor, but not as bad as last time.
Perhaps it's just me, but the rear panel has an unfamiliar look and feel to it :confused:
Any easy way to tell the M8 and M8.2 rear panels apart?
Guess what; my goat skin cover survived!
Congratulations!
As far, as I am aware, there is no difference between the rear panels of the M8 and M8.2.
Gabriel M.A.
03-28-2011, 09:04
hmm, where's jaapv? He seemed to know what serial #'s got free sensor upgrades, and which one just needed some parts.
How? I'd like to verify my M8's s/n.
Hi all,
Any advice from you; I assume I need to send my M9 to Leica?
I discovered black/blue vertical lines on all my photos from outdoor session 30.01.2012 on my M9 s.n. 3834853, FW 1.162. The line starts aprox 1/3 from top and goes all the way down on left hand side of photos. All are night exposures with f/4 and 2- 30 s and ISO range from 160 to 1250. All are taken on uncompressed DNG only, and all photos, aprox 50 have this line.
After discovering this I did a series indoor with same card / lenses with formatted card. I used different level of lightning, ranging from ISO160 / 0,5s / f/2 to ISO1250 / 12s / f/11 and imported in LR 3.5. The lines do not appear on all, only on the low light photos (6 out of 26). There are also long exposure photos without lines.
I have also checked older low light photos without finding these lines.
Please see sample photos:
http://flyalf.wordpress.com/2012/01/31/leica-m9-column-defect-black-stripes-on-photos/
Yes, Alf, the M9 will need attention from Leica. They may only need to "map out" a bad pixel. I had two bad pixels on my M9 but they didn't produce lines. But on my M8 I had a 1-pixel line from top to bottom. Both cameras were fixed by Leica at no charge, with no indication of what they did to fix the problems. Best of luck!
Thanks for advice. Now sent to Leica through retailer. But how to live without :bang:?
NickTrop
02-03-2012, 07:11
I don't own this camera but have been reading these M8 threads for a while. Between the IR/UV sensitivity and sensor issues, and their sluggish customer service, this camera is a way-overpriced dog. Reviews show no better IQ than any other APS-C camera, and it costs way more. It has more issues, and appears to be less durable, than any entry-level Japanese DSLR, the Canon Ti/Rebels, the Pentax K's, the Nikon D's - what have you, whose bodies are a fractuon of the price. The M8 should have been recalled by Leica, which is exactly what Nikon did when early D5000s had issues. Bit the bullet, took'em off the shelves, had them sent them back to the factory, fixed the issue, and sold them -below cost probably/guessing- as sub $500 body refurbs. I think it's a disgrace, personally. No - I don't own this camera. It's the last digital camera I'd ever consider purchasing, and you're welcome to flame away... be my guest.
MCTuomey
02-03-2012, 07:25
well nick, that post got my *ignore* vote
NickTrop
02-03-2012, 07:31
well nick, that post got my *ignore* vote
As I said, flame away, or ignore. That's my opinion of the M8 - agree/disagree/flame/ignore. As I said, be my guest. No other camera manufacturer, I'd argue in history, has "gotten away with" selling a camera with this many issues - and yet? Folks still buy'em. (Shakes head - which should be a "Smilie")
As I said, flame away, or ignore. That's my opinion of the M8 - agree/disagree/flame/ignore. As I said, be my guest. No other camera manufacturer, I'd argue in history, has "gotten away with" selling a camera with this many issues - and yet? Folks still buy'em. (Shakes head - which should be a "Smilie")
I don't know enough facts to compare to other cameras. My last two digitals have been a Nikon D700 and a M9, and they have had aprox the same reliance :p. But this doesnt make a statistical sound representation.
My point is that reading in a forum where we post problems and try to deduce quality from this might not be the most objective way :p.
Im not arguing pro or cons, but even if I had been aware of my current small problems I would have done the same purchase. I even considered to buy a backup M9, but could afford it. I guess one have to try the camera and watch the results to understand this. But all others that doesn't share this "madness" have my full sympathy (living a duller life :D:rolleyes: )
netzspannung
03-01-2012, 11:04
Hi guys. I had the bloody problem on a second hand M8 I recently bought, green vertical line on high isos.. it is never immediately apparent when the sensor is still cold. When I checked the camera, it wasn't evident, then when it was too late, the seller would not return my calls.. Well, there had to be a reason for a low price
Now the good part - Leica store in Moscow fixed mine for free, no sending to Solms, out of warranty, no money, no nothing. Less than a week total. Greetings fly out to Timur the repairman. I was and am astounded ))
Be warned and try your local Leica service centers, they know how to remap the sensor.. ask and you shall receive
Good luck
Gabriel M.A.
03-01-2012, 11:27
As I said, flame away, or ignore. That's my opinion of the M8 - agree/disagree/flame/ignore. As I said, be my guest. No other camera manufacturer, I'd argue in history, has "gotten away with" selling a camera with this many issues - and yet? Folks still buy'em. (Shakes head - which should be a "Smilie")
Stereotypes do not a fact make.
Those of us who own one know. Those of you, who like to regurgitate whatever you cherry-pick which supports your point of view, bring any credibility you may have on other subjects down to cable talking head territory.
Phil_F_NM
03-03-2012, 23:22
Yup, I knew. My M8 went back to the factory 3 times before I sold it. I only owned it for 16 months too. 7 of those months it was at Leica NJ.
I had a classmate who bought an M8 and it had issues apparent on the first day so he sent it back to Tamarkin, got a refund. Same guy turned around and got an M8 from BCC to learn on the 4th day that it had issues so he sent it back and got a refund.
Another friend had an M8 with the problem, had it fixed, it resurfaced in the same place then he sent it to Leica, had it repaired then sold it.
The local shop here in Philly that services Leica sent 3 other M8 bodies in to Leica NJ within 1 week for the same problem.
The same problem exists with the M9 but it's more easily repaired.
My M9 has been to Leica NJ three times as well. Owned it now for 17 months and this time only 7 of those months have been spent out for repair. I've had the vertical line problem twice, a horizontal magenta banding that was intermittent and numerous shutter faults as well. Had the sensor and shutter replaced last time in.
This is the reason that Leica had to allow for an extension of the warranty as of 9/9/11 because there would have been a lot of angry Leica die hards out there having to pay out of pocket for known camera issues.
After that, I still love the camera in spite of it being a pain in the ass. It gives me the best files to work with. That said, I'm used to the reliability of my M4 and M4-P which neither the M8 nor the M9 are or ever will be.
Enjoy.
Phil Forrest
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