Warmtone or Cooltone??

[Goldorak]

Your favorite paper, is it Warmtone or Cooltone?
Why?
Or do you prefer to use regular paper and develop it in warm or Cooltone developer?
What's the difference?

Tell us all about it!

[mh2000]

I would always use warmtone dev and normal papers... very subtle, but pleasing to my eye... now I just tweak a curve to get warmtone prints :)

[sniki]

I think it's matter of taste, the same besides someone prefer Leica glass results instead of Zeiss ones.
I am very found of cooltones with their bluish deep black.

sniki

[russianRF]

I prefer cooltones too. I especially like using Oriental VC FB.

[aizan]

i like cooltone for glossy rc (the only rc i like), warmtone for fiber. brings out the best qualities of the materials.

[dof]

I bought one of the first boxes of Ilford's Multigrade Warmtone paper here in the SF Bay Area and never looked back. Some people dislike this paper because you really need to tone it to bring out its warmer side, however that gives it a degree of flexibility over other offerings. Granted it will never produce a cool print, but that was never its goal now was it?

[Jerevan]

...I prefer warmtone because I really like the Ilford fiber paper.

[titrisol]

It depends on the subject
I use both

[sepiareverb]

I'm a big proponent of choosing the paper and developer for each project with a lot of care. Currently I'm working on a series of 1620 prints of things shot in the woods, printing them on Seagull Warmtone developed in a cold developer, with some selenium toning:
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff221/sepiareverb/501024-1.jpg http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff221/sepiareverb/4937_14.jpg

My last project was cold-tone in Dektol/Selectol-Soft. I could be off onto warmtone paper in warmtone developer next. Developer choice has a lot of influence on the final print color after toning, something many don't consider.
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff221/sepiareverb/poolfenceshadow.jpg http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff221/sepiareverb/privacyfence.jpg

I quite miss the Ilford Cooltone Developer, it gave the best color on Seagull Warmtone I've ever seen.

[sniki]

I had very cool tones as well using Edwal Ultra Black liquid print developer as a replacement for the Ilford Cooltone paper developer.

sniki

[sepiareverb]

I found Ultra Black died in the bottle too fast as I recall. Perhaps I should give it another try.

[Goldorak]

Sepia, what a great post! Thanks for the examples. All is very clear.

[Tom A]

I tend to pick paper and developer for the type of print I want. For waem tone I like the Iflford FB paper and for the cooler tones, Oriental FB. The developers are "home brewed", either Du Pont 52 for cooler tones and Ansco or Agfa's 103 formula for warmtones. The advantage is that you can fiddle a bit with the chemistry and enhance the color.
All fiber paper is selenium toned, just a 1:20 solution for 3-5 minutes. For some prints were I want deep, detailed blacks I mix up Defender paper developer (uses almost 1/2 lb Sodium Carbonate!!!).

[nikon_sam]

Kodak Ektalure K was some nice paper...it had some deep blacks and nice creamy whites...
I prefer the warmtone papers but do have a box or two of cold...

[titrisol]

For cool tone try Ehtol LPD 1+2 plus 1 tablespoon of sodium carbonate per liter

I found Ultra Black died in the bottle too fast as I recall. Perhaps I should give it another try.

For warm tone and great selenium toning LPD 1+5 or 1+7, I loked 1+20 but had to add more concentrate every 2 or 3 prints.

[Freakscene]

I use different papers for different photos.

I really like warmtone papers on a white or slightly cream base but find the Ilford base too warm. I also don't like the way the Ilford WT has a slightly greenish tone in well-used D72. I did like the Forte Polywarmtone very much and am currently experimenting with some other warmtone papers from Bergger and Foma. I do like the way many warmtone FB papers react to glycin print developers.

I like Ilford MG FB (but not RC) for neutral tones. It looks great in D72, amidol, glycin, pretty much anything. I like the way a warm or cold tone developer can ilicit extremely subtle tones from this paper and appreciate that it tones slowly and minimally.

For cold tone I liked Kodak Elite. The Polycontrast Fine Art that followed was nice, but not as good (maybe that's why they changed the name!?). Seagull looks great as did Forte Polytone V (I think that's what it was called). Working with Bergger, Foma and Kentmere here at the moment.

Slavich paper is great. It's incredibly flexible with regard to tone.

There are still plenty of great papers around; you just need to experiment and keep buying. If you don't do they latter then they will go away, for sure.

Marty

[Merkin]

I tend to use Ilford VC warmtone glossy fiber in a standard developer, usually Sprint. I don't know if this will make any sense, but the results just feel so.. "meaty," especially when printing from a fine grained medium format negative. It just seems like this combo delivers a richness and hyperrealism that I have yet to find a match for. A lot of the time, I find myself thinking that if the world looked like a print made from Ilford glossy fiber warmtone, it would quite likely be a more beautiful place. It is almost like the effect good cheese has on cheap wine, sort of a flattery. It makes even mundane negatives sing.

On a side note, Sprint chemicals are by far the most reliable I have ever used. No matter how long they have been around, or how sloppy I get with times, the results are by far the most consistent I have ever gotten out of photo chemicals. They aren't necessarily the best results I have ever gotten, but they are incredibly reliable. I don't generally hear about anyone here using Sprint chemistry, but I highly reccommend it.

[John Bragg]

Warmtone paper and Developer. Skin tones look good and I like a creamy white rather than stark whitewash...

[drewbarb]

What about those of us who prefer true neutral tones in our prints?

I too will choose the tone i want based on the specific image- but very often I want to achieve a true grey/silver look, with as little warm or cool leaning tone as possible. My standard paper is often Oriental VC FB paper, processed in LPD 1:2.5. I finish with a touch of selenium for archival permanence and tiny bit of extra punch, but not enough to give color shift. The net result is very much straight down the middle, in my darkroom. Just the way I like it for general work.

EDIT: OK, I guess you're calling this "regular"?

[topoxforddoc]

I use a warmtone developer (Neutol WA) and vary the paper from neutral (eg Adox MC110) to warm (eg Ilford WT FB or Forte PWT).

[sepiareverb]

I've since settled on Moersch 4812 for cooltone papers and that or the Moersch Sepia Developers warmtone papers. Magnificent developers. The 4812 actually lasts for weeks at working strength- something I've never experienced with any other developer not in a machine, film or paper.

[Juan Valdenebro]

For small prints and contacts I use common Ilford paper and developer, and for the prints I really care for I've had three "eras"...

First I felt B&W prints were enhanced by a neutral to cool tone because B&W is an abstraction related to losing color and going away from reality, and cool prints were real far from the warmth of natural light, so for years I used oriental and selenium for neutral deep black and cool tone...

Then I fell in love with the look of warm glossy Bergger paper on Agfa's Neutol warm developer, with a very very warm tone (near sepia) and deep shiny blacks with a contrasty range... Everybody seemed to love that look...

A few years ago I got tired of such warmth, and started to feel deeper blacks didn't mean better tonal range nor more impact (at least to me), so for a more silent look, now I use Bergger matte warm paper, with softer pearl blacks, and less reflections, and I develop it with Ilford warmtone developer, getting just a very delicate "old" warm tone I like a lot... I feel it's less exaggerated than other warmer tones, and it's also more human than cooler tones...

Last year I decided I'll use this printing for many years, bought lots of paper, and I'm slowly printing four copies of each of my best recent photographs... It's a project I planned for 2010 and 2011... When I have 50-100 different prints, I'll look for a place for my first solo exhibition, on the only kind of photography I love lately: street photography of people. Of course I'll offer my prints to a gallery and they will be free to decide the number of images and which ones... I think that will be fair and interesting...

I'm happy and doing well, but shooting good images and printing them is so slow...

Cheers,

Juan

[Riccis]

A few years ago I got tired of such warmth, and started to feel deeper blacks didn't mean better tonal range nor more impact (at least to me), so for a more silent look, now I use Bergger matt warm paper, with softer pearl blacks, and less reflections, and I develop it with Ilford warmtone developer, getting just a very delicate "old" warm tone I like a lot... I feel it's less exaggerated than other warmer tones, and it's also more human than cooler tones...

Juan:

Do you have a link to the specific paper you are referring to? I'd love to give it a try.

Cheers,

[Juan Valdenebro]

Juan:

Do you have a link to the specific paper you are referring to? I'd love to give it a try.

Cheers,

Hi Riccis,

Sure, these are the US distributors:

http://www.bergger.com/us/dealers.html

Their line of papers for contrast filters (I use the Ilford filters with them) is called Bergger Prestige Variable... The glossy I used for deep blacks is called Variable CB, and the matte for softer blacks I'm using is called Variable CM... They also make the very thick and 100% cotton Fine Art, but I'd be broken after paying it! All of them are equally great in tone... They also make developers and warm agents to add to their developers, but I have never tried them... Basically I use their warm papers because I never totally liked the tone of Ilford warmtone paper on any developer I tried it... Sure there must be a way to make it look great, but yet it's a mystery to me! The ones I buy come from France: just check if the names are the same for the US products... They don't have many papers in the variable contrast line: maybe three depending on how glossy or matte they are... It's a pleasure to work with them: they're thicker than Ilford's papers...

Hope you enjoy Bergger papers as much as I have! A good shot on them is wonderful!

Cheers,

Juan

[sepiareverb]

You might give the Seagull Warmtone a try also- not quite as warm as the Bergger, but certainly warm.

[Chris101]

... I don't generally hear about anyone here using Sprint chemistry, but I highly reccommend it.

I do most of the printing I do with Sprint chemistry. I seems to be middle of the road, but also has some issues compared to the Kodak chemistry (dektol/kodafix) I was previously using. Sprint chemistry needs more washing, or the paper dries more brittle than it did in Kodak chems. Sprint developer dies more suddenly - dektol has more of a 'shoulder' where the prints take longer and longer to develop. With Sprint they seem to just not develop all the way, suddenly.

Once these idiosyncracies were sorted though, I got along quite well with Sprint.

By the way, I just noticed this thread - I have experimented with cool and warm papers, but prefer "regular" paper. Ilford MGIV FB to be exact.

[semilog]

Generally neutral or selenium. Don't like sepia, pretty much ever —*but boy do I love looking at prints made on the old Agfa Portriga.

[semilog]

I also don't like the way the Ilford WT has a slightly greenish tone in well-used D72.

Yeah, I never liked that either.

[julianphotoart]

......because when using selenium toner, warmtone gives me many options.

[shadowfox]

Warmtone.
Because most of my subjects (vintage) looks good in warmtone.

[StefanJozef]

For the look I attempt to achieve I prefer warmtone. I find Fomatone tones more effectively than Ilford.

[nikon_sam]

The last time I was in the darkroom I was working with negs I shot in downtown L. A.
There were shots of buildings...I had made prints using a warmtone paper but then tried a coldtone and I liked those prints better...sometimes it depends on the subject...

[jsrockit]

When I was printing B&W in a wet darkroom... I used Ilford Fiber Matte. Not sure what tone it is... but looks cool to me when I look at my old prints. I also used a really warm AGFA paper that doesn't seem to be around anymore... super beautiful paper.

[nikon_sam]

When I was printing B&W in a wet darkroom... I used Ilford Fiber Matte. Not sure what tone it is... but looks cool to me when I look at my old prints. I also used a really warm AGFA paper that doesn't seem to be around anymore... super beautiful paper.

Agfa made some beautiful paper...:cool:
Just wish I had found that out a long time ago...:bang:

[taskoni]

I prefer cooltone paper for "street" shots and candid portraits and warmtone for graphics. However, depends on the area. For reportage style environmental portraits and scenes in more exotic places I love the warmtone too. It's a matter of subject and vision really. Choosing the right paper to me is part of the creative process - too bad usually I can't afford what I need :)

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Depended on the photo. I kept several papers and developers in stock when I had a darkroom, and would choose based on the individual image.

[Photo_Smith]

I mainly use warmtone for portait cool/nuetral for some landscapes.
my favourites were the Agfa papers Portriga and Record rapid, Portriga had a very warm chlorobromide with ivory base where Record rapid was slightly greener in tone with the right treatment could almost look olive green/brown.
Developer choice is crucial Agfa Nuetol WA was nice especially at 1:3 larger dilutions make for warmer tones–as a rule.
Cool tones were often on Kodak Elite fine art or even basic Ilfobrom both of which were nice in Dektol.
It's imposible to mimic these tones on the internet because of the differences in browser rendering but here are two shots simulated to be Record Rapid and Elite with the type of subject I would use for either paper type

http://www.pbase.com/mark_antony/image/103683360.jpg
Simulated Record Rapid

http://www.pbase.com/mark_antony/image/91278261.jpg
Kodak Elite