I am a racist! [Archive] - Rangefinderforum.com

freeranger

12-16-2008, 07:15

So...

...I have just been informed that one of my images has been pulled from a website and printed publication because it is racist.

Apparently, in the dark times of South Africa's apartheid regime one of the tests to decide if a person was black, white or coloured was to place a pencil in their hair to see if it would hold fast or slip free.

This photo is of a child having a laugh with a group of multi-racial friends. Although the boy is not from South Africa, he clearly has pencils in his hair and so I am clearly a racist scum-bag. :(

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4712/30856729064e50fabecdbyc6.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=30856729064e50fabecdbyc6.jpg)

.ken

12-16-2008, 07:17

OMG. Political correctness is a bitch.

kshapero

12-16-2008, 07:19

I personally would not call you a racist, maybe a pencilist.

Tuolumne

12-16-2008, 07:20

F&%k political correctness.

/T

maelswarm

12-16-2008, 07:20

Your photo looks like a stock-type photo. Be careful of political correctness, your intentions might be misinterpreted.

Check out this major ad that was pulled and the CEO had to make a public apology: http://www.techpowerup.com/img/07-08-01/intelad.jpg

And I don't think they are calling you a racist, you are probably exaggerating. In the end the image would harm THEM not YOU so just be more sensitive next time you do stock work.

Nh3

12-16-2008, 07:20

They didn't said you're racist, they said your image has racist connotation because of south African history.

So, stop with the drama and be glad that you learned something. this is no big deal.

Spider67

12-16-2008, 07:27

....sometimes it's a minefield. But if the people who are marketing your photograph are afraid to get problems it's up to them.
Nevertheless I like it.
Greetings from Vienna Des

jmarcus

12-16-2008, 07:29

Cool picture

brachal

12-16-2008, 07:29

It's a great picture. People are much too sensitive, IMHO.

maelswarm

12-16-2008, 07:31

Meh. I just see kids having fun.

And what's with the Intel ad?

This PC crap is going too far, sometimes.

Clearly it wasn't obvious to the marketing team who designed the ad either: several black men kneeling down to a white man/overlord? Sure they're trying to imply having lots of speed at your fingertips, but this isn't the best way to go about it lol

photo4ls

12-16-2008, 07:33

What Nh3 said. :(

Nikon Bob

12-16-2008, 07:38

Clearly, for somebody not familiar with with the "test" your photo has no racial overtones. It had none for me or my wife and I suspect not for a great majority of people. As you say it is of a bunch of kids goofing around and having fun. It just shows how easy it is to unintentionally insult someone who reads more into a photo than was originally intended. The context in which a photo was presented and the viewers personal life experience have a great deal to due with how that viewer sees the photo. Personally I don't see you as a racist scum-bag for having taken that photo but I am far from everyone. Yea, Political Correctness can be a bitch to deal with.

Bob

dazedgonebye

12-16-2008, 07:42

As a bald man, I find it offensive in that it highlights my own inability to put pencils, or anything else, in my hair.

sojournerphoto

12-16-2008, 07:44

Problem with political correctness is ulitmately the same as that of racism. both treat people as amorphous and not as individuals enagged in friendships.

The major difference is that PC at least tries to achieve something good, even thogh it overwhelmingly fails due to the above.

Nice picture - not one I saw as racist, but then kids are quite able to celebrate their differences.

Mike

Gumby

12-16-2008, 07:46

I can't see the piture, but wanted to try out that test. I have littel hair om y head but qwyuite a bit in my ears. I now have a pencil stuck in my ear. Somebody... please help... what do I do next?

EDIT: please type in caps... I can'not hear very well right now.

csg

12-16-2008, 07:50

I think its a nice photo. Lots of kids smiling, having fun. The multi-colored pencils liven it up. But regardless of what any one says, any reasonable photo that provokes a reaction and discussion is good thing. That was art and communication is about, no?

italy74

12-16-2008, 07:51

Politically correct is 99% hypocrisy. It's just a "soft" way to tell others "I don't care nor like what you think but I can't tell you".
There are political forces who support women and at the same time also countries where women aren't considered at all. But you can't talk about those countries since you have to respect their laws. So ????
By the way, one of the girls in the frame is the same of your avatar or am I wrong?

xayraa33

12-16-2008, 07:53

When is conked hair going make a come back?

Muddy Waters and Sam Lighting Hopkins looked so cool with conked hair styles.

Nikon Bob

12-16-2008, 07:53

FrankS

12-16-2008, 07:54

Any racism in that picture is inferred rather than implied.

George S.

12-16-2008, 07:56

I can understand why it was pulled. I knew nothing of the "test" either, but apparently some people do, and it then wouldn't be correct to use the ad. Also, I have to wonder if this is children just goofing around, or is it children laughing at the black kid because of his hair, so then the context is not clear. I can understand why it would make some nervous.

maelswarm

12-16-2008, 08:03

I look at it this way. It's one thing if an image is obviously racist (e.g. KKK rally or whatever). They have their place - to document history or to make a certain point, in context.

But in those two photos above (girl/Intel) I might suggest that if you saw something racist in them, perhaps it is YOU that may have... Issues.

We're breeding a society of fearful folks - walking on eggshells constantly, getting more and more sensitive by the day. As a consequence, it takes less and less to offend someone these days.

wtf does cultural sensitivity have to do with being fearful? It's about respect, understanding and tolerance. You have no need to be fearful if you are respectful.

George S.

12-16-2008, 08:12

LOL! That's a pitiful argument... Kind of like blame the victim!

But in those two photos above (girl/Intel) I might suggest that if you saw something racist in them, perhaps it is YOU that may have... Issues.

George S.

12-16-2008, 08:16

I think the black models in the Intel ad were chosen for the way the lighting would show off the color and the definition of their skin. I don't think the ad would be so dramatic from a visual standpoint if it was a bunch of pasty white guys. In this ad I'm sure there was no racist intent, but I can again see the objection.

maelswarm

12-16-2008, 08:19

I'm not arguing the intentions of the marketing ppl, but it's an unfortunate coincidence and imagery. Maybe they hired a well-known sprinter that happened to black. Or maybe due black people's dominance of track & field for running.

Companies have their public images to worry about.

Windscale

12-16-2008, 08:31

There are many who'd like to kick up a fuss out of nothing, or even go further by applying their interpretations to your words or pics as if the same were yours. But everyone is entitled to his or her view. But they shouldn't assume it is your view as well. I see these as lack of understanding and education leading to the formation of an uninformed opinion. As long as you have stated your meaning of your pic, that's sufficient. Would the pic be non-racist if the blackmen all became white and the white man became black? Oh, I forgot about positive discrimination. You see, either way you can't win.

freeranger

12-16-2008, 08:32

So, stop with the drama and be glad that you learned something. this is no big deal.

This has stimulated an excellent debate. I have learned something about that horrible regime in South Africa and, I am better off for the information.

If I was being truly dramatic, though, I would have titled my post "I am a racist child pornographer!!!!!" as the females are obviously not clothed in the traditional head-wear of some place or other, and can obviously be seen laughing in the company of a male child - which, I am sure, is not permitted or has not been permitted in some village at some time or other etc etc

...see what I mean?

And..it is a big deal for the kid in the photo. He and his family were really happy that his relatives would see this picture on the internet. And now ... well...you know :(

Pherdinand

12-16-2008, 09:05

It's true.
Somebody must really have been a freak, to invent such a test, but it is indeed the way they were "scientifically determining" the race.

I don't think they labeled YOU a racist. I think it's just the usual over-carefulness of not to hurt anybody's feeling with an image tht might remind someone of some dark past of a far corner of the Globe. Don't take it personally. It happens.

It's funny here at work, somewhat related story: We have in majority Christian originated colleagues but there are two muslims and a witness of Jehova. Every December we have a dinner called "christmas dinner", on the budget of our employer. It's just a get-together in a nice restaurant, eating and drinking for free and chatting. Nothing remotely related to any religious thing.
However this year there was a suspicion that some of our colleagues might have chosen not to join the event...because it's called christmas dinner. SO it was renamed by the boss to "mid-winter dinner".
I find it ridiculous... I personally am officially catholic but not practicing it, practically i am an atheist but i did not even think about being "offended" by this.

Moreover, we also received in these day a box from our employer called "christmas gift". Just some little things, consumable and non-consumable stuff.
Everybody received it.
Nobody refused it, saying it is offensive:)

That's just how the world is, i guess.

Pherdinand

12-16-2008, 09:09

Actually, about the Intel ad:
I am white and i feel offended. The ad wants us to believe that only black men can run properly.

:)

Which is in average true, by the way. But that's how we are. Races are different in what their strength is, in average, whether we like it or not.

Remember the movie "white men can't jump"?

.ken

12-16-2008, 09:39

the test is to ask many black americans and see if they respond to this ad in a negative way. what percentage of them have heard of this pencil test thats been going on in africa?

in a time where we have a black president, it's pretty stupid imho... racism only seems to be one sided.

i think political correctness goes beyond race anyway. it has affected how we talk to each other and we treat each other in fear of being called a racists or prejudice... we lie to ourselves and in what we truly believe in.

Jason Sprenger

12-16-2008, 09:57

It's stupid. The child isn't old enough to have been lived under apartheid. Neither he nor the photographer has earned its stink.

I say shame on them who forced the image down, they are guilty of callus repression and are themselves fascists. It reminds me of zero tolerance policies in this country, which purposely excludes consideration of intent, context, and reason itself. There is never, ever a good excuse not to have to think.

Better to have included a caption describing of how the image might be misconstrued and how thankful we can be that this child and every other one like him can put pencils into their hair in playful fun. And if we think about it, isn't that the world we all want anyway?

mirrored

12-16-2008, 10:13

So...
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4712/30856729064e50fabecdbyc6.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=30856729064e50fabecdbyc6.jpg)

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/07-08-01/intelad.jpg

I turn angry for this ugly work. First photo is just beautiful and who is against it, disservice good reputation of antirasist movement. Dislike it sounds too high or just blind and stupidity: are they angry for beauty of colour or coloured people?

Sorry, I dont follow discussion before. But in general: times are chancing all the time, as usual, and I hope that humanity and solidarity win and most people in anti-rasist movement are still wise.

jmkelly

12-16-2008, 10:23

Cool picture. Set up your own website on a server hosted in a country where the ISP is not strongly liable for content, and post it there.

Call it ART and explain your motivations and the connotations of the image in a caption. Or don't explain it at all - think Maplethorpe and Koons. (Not that I am implying that your image is REMOTELY in the same realm of shock-art :D just mentioning them to illustrate that "art" as "speech" is generally more protected and tolerated than "commercial speech.")

I don't think the rejection of your otherwise excellent photo is about political correctness - it is about business. If just one person - however neurotic, misguided or overly-sentized you might think they are - is offended by an image, especially in an advertisement, they can raise such a stink (thanks to the internet) that it is simply not worth it to most companies to risk it.

Goldorak

12-16-2008, 10:23

What's the horrible regime in SA? The old one where law and order prevailed (ok, with some flaws) or the one that's going on today? Free but totally chaotic with the highest crime rate per capita in the world?

On a different note, I can understand this image's connotations.

nikon_sam

12-16-2008, 10:23

Remember the movie "white men can't jump"?

Had the movie been call, "Black men can't swim" then it would have been considered racist...

Political Correctness is doing the opposite of what it was meant to do...
I'm seeing that in trying to keep everyone happy and equal, Political Correctness is actually just pointing out what "It" thinks is unfair...
In photographs like the one posted by the OP, one has to show a boy, a girl, an Asian, an African-American, a Caucasian (actually had to look up how to spell that one), possibly a Handicap person (boy or girl) and someone in the mid-brown tones (like me)...
Now, if you leave someone out you're a Racist...if you put pencils in the girls hair and place the darker child in the background and slightly out of focus you're a Racist...I'm almost convinced that if one of the other kids had something done to them, someone, somewhere would have found something to be offended by it..all in the name of "Political Correctness"

In another forum, if I had seen any of the photos posted here I wouldn't have seen them as being wrong or demeaning...I'm not looking for what's unfair or offensive in ads, I don't think that way...
What about the ads that depict "Men" as uncaring idiots who can do nothing right...why is this still acceptable behaviour???

Also now having read this thread and while watching the News, I see that our next Vice President has pick a German Shepard as his new "Puppy"...doesn't Mr. Joe Biden know that German Shepards were use against Blacks in the 60's during the Civil Rights movement...
I can recall many a photo showing these dogs attacking young men and women in the South...

Okay...I'm done...sorry for the rant...(heart rate back to normal)...:D

I don't want to think this way but "Political Correctness" is behind this thinking...It's doing more to divide than bring together...

nikon_sam

12-16-2008, 11:00

I guess that makes me "PC-Challenged"...and "No, I didn't get no memo..." :D

Paul T.

12-16-2008, 11:08

What's the horrible regime in SA? The old one where law and order prevailed (ok, with some flaws)
Well... that quote takes the biscuit, and I ain't being PC!

And yes, the trains did run on time under Hitler.

As to the OP, yes, it is a pain and an over-reaction. But it was probably worse, 30 years ago, for the kids who got their hair tested in the way we've just had explained.

Gumby

12-16-2008, 11:23

in a time where we have a black president, it's pretty stupid imho... racism only seems to be one sided.

But , which side? Remember two things... it isn't January yet so he is not "our President", and he isn't black, or "colored", or African American; he is bi-racial - technically half-white, half-black. That make reference to him in this this type of discussion even weirder.

Gumby

12-16-2008, 11:25

You can't say that anymore. It's "physically/emotionally challenged" these days. Didn't you get the memo? ;)

Ha.. I got a slightly different memo. Where I work the proper term is "Other-Abled Persons".

Pherdinand

12-16-2008, 11:27

Gumby - and yet, Obama was called "the first black president" bla bla non stop in the election days. On every news channel.

funkaoshi

12-16-2008, 11:29

The old one where law and order prevailed (ok, with some flaws)

You might want to educate yourself on those "flaws". I wonder how long it will be before the moderators nuke this thread. It's ridiculous.

Gumby

12-16-2008, 11:32

Gumby - and yet, Obama was called "the first black president" bla bla non stop in the election days. On every news channel.

I know. Its just that it was "them" saying it, not him. It's true only if one still believes the old Jim Crow "one drop" rule. Obama seems to just let it slide without comment... which is probably the best approach.

But personally I find it a bit offensive. It's like labeling me "blue" because my green clay is composed of both blue and yellow pigments. :D

Goldorak

12-16-2008, 11:45

I am fully educated on the subject, which was a part of my university studies, hence why I decided to add my grain of salt to this conversation. And since I am not a politician, I can freely say that I prefer the old regime. It is my choice. Don't step on my feet and I won't step on yours.

:-)

MickH

12-16-2008, 11:46

...I see that our next Vice President has pick a German Shepard as his new "Puppy"...

Rewind 60 years.......

'Scuse me you can't call it that any more. Them Germans are nasty people and no one will buy a dog called that. Let's rename the breed "Alsatian". Yes, that's much better.

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

FrankS

12-16-2008, 11:47

It is an excellent photo. Just look at how much discussion it has sparked. It even holds up for ridicule the pencil race test, that I hadn't heard of before, so it's educational as well.

FrankS

12-16-2008, 11:48

Freedom Shepards?

bcostin

12-16-2008, 11:48

I think that's a great photo. If the photo was actually being used for advertising or something primarily in South Africa I could understand worrying about the connotations, but outside of that country I doubt many people would know or care.

The thing that bugs me about the most about these sorts of "controversies" is that they're usually lodged on behalf of some other person who, theoretically, might be offended. Some well-meaning but patronizing third-party decides that something might conceivably upset "those people" and swings into action. That person gets the warm fuzzies for their amazing sensitivity, but the innocent party who meant no harm gets justifiably annoyed at being accused of bad intent. And whatever group is being "protected" often ends up looking thin-skinned and bad-tempered. Even though they probably weren't offended in the first place and would rather not drag around such baggage. Bah, I say. Bah.

nikon_sam

12-16-2008, 12:05

Our last three dogs were indeed..."Alsatian-Freedom Non-Nazi Shepards"
I truly love dem dogs...sadly at the moment we are dog-challenged...we do have a cat that's being re-educated to act like a dog...

anoldsock

12-16-2008, 12:16

My intent isn't to offend anyone, but to compare racism with political correctness would be a gross misjudgment, and I would say borders on ignorance. There is a huge difference between being oppressive, prejudice and discriminating someone because of color, religion, sexual orientation, or otherwise than there is with using selective grammar or language. Racism has an oppressive connotation where as being PC is being respectful and sensitive to people's backgrounds, culture and so forth.

For the picture of the child that we are discussing, I definitely don't find it to be oppressive or racist, and the OP obviously didn't have any intentions to do so. Being said, I wasn’t exposed to an oppressive South African government. The reason's pictures are scrutinized so much are because images offer powerful messages and have been historically used as propaganda tools. Although we didn’t experience the ‘hair test’ in the US, the website or printed publications may have markets in South America and so you have to be mindful and sensitive to the history and cultures of other countries, especially if that’s your target audience. It all comes down to context, and in the context of South African society it definitely has racial undertones.

The same undertones are more obvious in the Intel ad because it relates to American history, but may not be so obvious, for instance, in eastern or Asian cultures. The intentions may have been that the Intel processor is simply faster out of the blocks, but again photos are such powerful images that there are definitely some perceived racial undertones. Again, this may not be the original intention, but that’s the perception…and perception is often the reality.

The argument of not taking offense if the races were switched is a poor argument. In the context of American history Caucasians were not oppressed, beaten, raped or killed because of skin color, and so switching the races in the ad wouldn’t conjure oppressive images. Again, it all has to be taken into context. It’s not “silly” that this ad was pulled, because we all know photographs and images are interpretations of placement, framing and so on. This isn’t necessarily saying that the photographer or advertisement is racist, but that simply given the context, there are definite racial undertones at play.

To say that images, photographs, paintings, prints, poems, books and other forms of arts aren’t interpretive holds no water. Art is inherently interpretive in that the elements within it are intended to evoke certain emotional responses.

The intentions of being PC are not to offend people of other culture and backgrounds; in short it’s being polite and sensitive. I do agree that being PC may have gotten a little bit out of hand, but there should never be any tolerance for racism.

dazedgonebye

12-16-2008, 12:34

"First black president" to appeal to those who would vote out of white guilt.
"Not all black" after the election, to be sure we know the debt is yet unpaid.

Race is a tool used by many to demean all.

I very much like the OP's picture. I understand why it was pulled and find it sad.

Gumby - and yet, Obama was called "the first black president" bla bla non stop in the election days. On every news channel.

funkaoshi

12-16-2008, 12:35

anoldsock, very well said.

Andrew Sowerby

12-16-2008, 12:37

I don't see the problem with the photo being pulled. We're not talking about a show at a gallery. A publisher has elected not to use a particular photo for commercial purposes due to the chance that someone will be offended by it. What's the big deal?

Also, I'm surprised that more people haven't heard of the pencil test.

TEZillman

12-16-2008, 12:42

MickH

12-16-2008, 12:45

Also, I'm surprised that more people haven't heard of the pencil test.

TBH this is the first time I have heard of that particular "pencil test". There is another that I know of, but as we're all Gentlemen I won't demean this thread with a description.

Pherdinand

12-16-2008, 12:56

hee hee, Mick, i was expecting someone comes up with THAT pencil test :D

freeranger

12-16-2008, 12:56

One could reasonably make the arguement that the entity that pulled the photo was being racist by doing so. The child is clearly shown with pencils in all colors, is associating with children of differing ethnic backgrounds, is clearly enjoying himself and is not being discriminated against. The photo can certainly be seen as a commentary on how things have changed for the better.

That was exactly the intention. The photo was to demonstrate the warmth and friendliness between children from different cultures. It was very well received until someone mentioned the possible South African connection. It is sad, but after considering all the views put forward here, I believe the picture may be interpreted by some in the wrong way, without the context of an editorial companion piece.

Thanks for all the input. I realise now that, although I may be a bit of a drama queen (no offense to anyone's sexuality intended), I am not a racist.

aad

12-16-2008, 13:07

Beautiful picture. Good art often riles up somebody.

I'm reminded of William Blake-one line from the Proverbs of Heaven and Hell.

nikon_sam

12-16-2008, 13:19

When I first saw the photo in question I saw nothing wrong with it and in not seeing anything wrong I reclaimed some of my, what I thought was lost, Innocence...but now after reading the reasons behind why some Political Correct person decided to pulled it, sadly my innocence has been taken away...:bang:

I can understand why it would be pulled but at some point we all need to forgive (does not mean forget) the past deeds of man...We need to strive forward instead of dwelling in the past...:D

George S.

12-16-2008, 13:32

Yes, in one way it IS a beautiful picture.
"anoldsock" stated beautifully the reasons someone _could_ put a racist overtone on things. I never said there WAS racist intent, I said I believed there wasn't, but could understand why someone could get their feathers ruffled by it.

We would have to know the context and the meaning behind a photo before we judge it. We should also understand that there may be some other valid reaction from around the world and/or thru history that WE may not think of, but that doesn't make THEIR reaction to it unreasonable.

I'm a retired police lieutenant, now a private investigator and also have been a K9 dog trainer (German Shepherds at that) for the police. Say a very young employee of mine (in their 20s) who has no idea what occurred in the southern US in the 50s and early 60s wants to advertise our business and highlight the security and K9 background and shoots a print ad of a burglar attempting to break into a business and also in the shot is a German Shepherd waiting inside the building... could that burglar be depicted as black? Probably not. But my employee's intent would have been innocent enough, but others would say it wasn't in good taste, sensitivity issues, political correctness, or whatever you want to call it, and they'd be right.

tmfabian

12-16-2008, 13:46

my god people are whiney little cry babies. i'm truly appalled that the world is this f'cked up. when will people learn, not everything is about them (input whatever form of PC nonsensical term you want in place of them...race, sex, religion...wah wah wah)

Seriously...when did the human race turn into a bunch of little sissies?

George S.

12-16-2008, 14:05

Seriously...when did the human race turn into a bunch of little sissies?

When they were allowed to have a lawyer sue over every little thing. Like winning a $1.6 Million judgement because no one told her she'd get burned if she squeezed a hot cup of coffee in a styrofoam cup between her legs as she drove her car.... Sorry to now start a lawyers as bad guys thread...:D

Jonas

12-16-2008, 14:08

When they were allowed to have a lawyer sue over every little thing. Like winning a $1.6 Million judgement because no one told her she'd get burned if she squeezed a hot cup of coffee in a styrofoam cup between her legs as she drove her car.... Sorry to now start a lawyers as bad guys thread...:D

Well... That dont happen over here in the civilized world ;)

thomasw_

12-16-2008, 14:16

.....where as being PC is being respectful and sensitive to people's backgrounds, culture and so forth....The intentions of being PC are not to offend people of other culture and backgrounds; in short it’s being polite and sensitive.

It is obvious to me that you or your culture has not been disrespected by PC drivel. No one from my background is interested in what the intent of the PC lingo is, it is merely offensive to us despite what it tries to accomplish. In short, the fact is, in this world, you can't stand for much without causing someone or some group to be offended. This is what a PC supporter seems to be unable to grasp.

maelswarm

12-16-2008, 15:08

So just forget about the hundreds of years of slavery, oppression, and exploitation? I know it's hard for a white person to feel what it's like to be stared at, harassed, bullied because you're different. Racism is alive and well in America, Canada, and the rest of the world. There are different ways of exploiting others, such as neocolonialism where Western countries go into poorer countries and take their natural resources (oil, minerals, crops) without returning equal value to the people of that country.

But the original photo wasn't racist. The OP wasn't racist. No one is calling anyone racist here, so stop getting all ruffled up by it. All it is, is that it would've been unfortunate if someone was offended by the picture and the company get a bad rap.

crawdiddy

12-16-2008, 15:18

"First black president" to appeal to those who would vote out of white guilt.
"Not all black" after the election, to be sure we know the debt is yet unpaid.

Race is a tool used by many to demean all.

During the campaign, Obama addressed the criticism he's not "black enough." He said when he tries to hail a cab in Manhattan, he's plenty black enough.

Fred (Photomoof) is correct-- Context is everything, and Political Correctness is all about awareness of cultural context.

It would be a much simpler world if we could all ignore the context in which we exist. But that isn't very realistic.

'When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.' -- Humpty Dumpty from Through the Looking Glass

Btw, the photo in question is beautiful.

anoldsock

12-16-2008, 15:27

Thomasw, You're assumption is untrue and you couldn't me more wrong. I have been disrespected by what you call "PC drivel". I do support being PC, you don't know anything about my background or where I come from. My argument is that there is a huge difference between being PC and being racist. One is obviously much worse than the other. There is a difference between saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas and calling someone by a racial slur or putting someone down because of ethnicity.

It is obvious to me that you or your culture has not been disrespected by PC drivel. No one from my background is interested in what the intent of the PC lingo is, it is merely offensive to us despite what it tries to accomplish. In short, the fact is, in this world, you can't stand for much without causing someone or some group to be offended. This is what a PC supporter seems to be unable to grasp.

Gumby

12-16-2008, 16:45

This is probably the most racist sentence in this whole thread. Congrats.

No, it's not a racist statement. It's just a factual statement reflecting the posters viewpoint, and one can assume that the person posting htat comment was not white. If not, it is just a bit ignorant of the fact that causcasians can feel the same alienation when immersed in the Black community/culture as some Black folks might when immersed in the Caucasian community/culture. To be racist means there is hate involved, not simply mention of race or racial differences.

You should try spending some extended time in an environment where everyone is totally opposite (whether it is racially, religiously, etc. different) of whatever you are. As they say, "been there, done that".