View Full Version : advice please on setting up from scratch
I am due for a new computer this one makes more noise than my washing machine! purchased about 6 years ago for a degree at Uni it has served me well (pentium 4 (i think) 2.4giger hurts with a about a gig of ram from memory. (hehe a pun already)
I am reasonably computer iliterate (if you couldn't already tell), but i'm a quick learner so if i can get some advice here or if you can point me two a good place to ask would be appreciated.
I want to be able to work with (from scans) medium and large format film, from 6x6 to 8x10inch colour and b&W (obviously whole plate and 8x10 will produce large files, i can predict). I wet print b&w at the moment (happy with that still) and also get colour printed at the lab. not sure if its economical to print my own colour from perhaps a R2400 or if the quality is as good from the lab?
i would also like to get images onto the net with the veiw or possibility to having a web page with images for sale but also to share some of my information on vintage camera that doesnt appear on the net anywhere (i notice other folk have this, although i am not sure if anyone ever sells much...but thats another topic i guess). starting a web page looks daunting. i have seen templates to buy and even downloaded a few samples, but i didnt have any luck with making them work. My son says a program dreamweaver would work....
anyway
Thinking of getting a epson V700 (cant afford drum scanners) unless the V900 ever arrives. also thinking of getting the nikon 9000 for the 120 film but that may have to wait (only so much money). I have asked my pro-camera shop here but depending on the person i speak to i get conflicting advice...one fellow may say to me that i would not be happy with results from the V700 and not waste my time and get the nikon 9000, while others have said the epson is not far behind...either way i will need the epson for the sheet film.
But what do i get in the way of a computer (configuration). what things should it have. what would folks here choose if buying a new set up?
There are a few computer places here that will put together most any configuration, but when i look at all the different cpu and motherboard and so on and so on, there are so many different types it makes no sence. and unfortuately the computer shops here have zero idea about photography let alone converting from film or sheet film to computer files to give any real advice on the best set up.
i havn't looked at Mac computers (although that happens to be what the pro-camera shop sells) because i have no history with them and dont care to have to learn something completely different (hard enough as it is!) and we have several computer in my home networked (rather poorly-i did it- but it works) so i am not sure introducing another system is a good idea or if it would be compatable
is it best to keep this computer as a stand alone machine for photo work only? concered about it being connected to the net and getting virus, also i could use it for business.
what are the things i should be looking for installed in the computer (hardware related)?
Are two screens of benifit? is anything special needed to be asked for(installed) for this to work? two screen i think would be good even for my work or veiwing thing on the webb if that possible.
what type of screen should i use? (there are so many brands and models) i hear some are better for seeing correct colour as it would appear on the print.
fire wire? is that needed, i think it is, although most seem to have this.
should windows Vista or XP or both be installed?
should i have some kind of seperate hard drive to file images on?
appreciate any advice
cheers
dont know much about the scanners but i can tell u from 20 years experience with computers having owned many that a mac is the way to go. they are so easy to use very intuitive and compatible with windows as far as your home network goes. Apple computers just cant be beat for reliability and they are not prone to viruses. My macbook pro is the best ive ever owned and worth every penny i paid for it. And yess buy a second hard drive to back up your work and also back up to dvd.
Get a mac. Full stop. End of the line. End of the story. Don't even question. Hehe...
Seriously....
oftheherd
10-27-2008, 03:45
Macs certainly have their place. Especially on windy days. :D
Actually it is mostly a matter of personal preference. I don't nor have I ever owned a mac. I have used both Linux and Windows. If you are comfortable with Windows OS I would probably stay with it, but check into macs to be sure. Especially if you have any friends with macs. On Windows OS, I would not go with Vista. It has had problems, as have most MS OS. The difference seems to be Uncle Bill hasn't been quick to fix them, preferring to move on to a "new" OS, now to be called simply Windows (again). For now, I would stick with XP SP2, or if you must, SP3. The price has dropped and it is robust enough.
As to the kind of computer, get the best you can afford. If possible, get a quad processor, at the fastest speed you can afford, with the most memory you can afford. A 500 gig drive is probably good so you can install several programs and still have plenty of memory left. For your storage, consider a raid on your network. If it sounds like money, yes, there is that. Just always get the best you can afford. The better it is, the longer it will last you.
As to scanners, I can't help. I have an Epson that will do up to 4x5 reasonably well. Is that good enough for what you want? I don't know. I can't even imagine scanning 8x10 film on anything less than high end pro equipment for big bucks. Hopefully someone else can help there.
Dreamweaver will indeed help you with a web site. It is expensive and has a learning curve. Perhaps some of the simple web hosting sites would be better. Start out the best you can and improve as your ability improves.
Good luck.
elshaneo
10-27-2008, 04:48
I have both PC and Mac, there are nothing wrong with the both of them in terms of hardware, but in terms of software especially the Operating System, I have to admit that the Mac OS X is certainly the best, MS Windows Vista does not even come close.
As for me, I'm planning to get rid of my PC soon since using Windows OS is a real pain in the A$$ !!!
what exatly makes a Mac better? They boh turn on by pressing a button, then you open scanning and photoshop programs ...right?
i asked my son but all he would say was that he doesnt like them and that some people prefer them no matter what .he says they dont right click and folder organisation is different in some way. ..from his small experiance with them at school
does photoshop work just the same in the Mac...i havnt got that at the moment but my son says he can probably get it from his mate for nothing for me, which will save a dollar i suppose
also he says that a lot of programs wont work with mac...thinking they are designed for windows (made by microsoft
35mmdelux
10-27-2008, 04:55
i have a v750 and it works great. handles multiple formats and not very expensive. computer -- get a laptop and separate hardrive (lrg) as well.
what exatly makes a Mac better? They boh turn on by pressing a button, then you open scanning and photoshop programs ...right?
i asked my son but all he would say was that he doesnt like them and that some people prefer them no matter what .he says they dont right click and folder organisation is different in some way. ..from his small experiance with them at school
does photoshop work just the same in the Mac...i havnt got that at the moment but my son says he can probably get it from his mate for nothing for me, which will save a dollar i suppose
also he says that a lot of programs wont work with mac...thinking they are designed for windows (made by microsoft
Good for dummies even I could put in a home network two desktops and a notebook, wireless printer and wireless network and relay so it works in the garden.
Took a full day to set-up last Christmas; and since then I’ve had zero viruses, zero pop-ups, and zero maintenance, it’s hung a couple of times with VueScan but I think that’s probably the duff Minolta softwear drivers.
I have two teenage children even they can’t crash it, I now spend my spare time doing what I want, not PC maintenance like I had been doing
:)
M. Valdemar
10-27-2008, 06:32
Almost every professional photographic, graphic artist and designer uses a Mac.
Don't listen to those who have not tried one.
There's no question that a Mac is superior for photography.
funkaoshi
10-27-2008, 06:50
I'll also chime in to say I use a Mac, and it's awesome. People are passionate about Macs for a reason: they work really well.
Once you go Mac, you never go back.
benkelley
10-27-2008, 07:01
If you can, go to a store where they sell Macs and play with one for yourself. Take a test drive, basically. A principal advantage, as has been stated above, is no viruses and a more stable operating system. Many people think that they're just more pleasant to use, with better user interface, etc., but your opinion on that is for you to decide.
You could get a laptop plus an external monitor, or an Imac (all in one desktop with screen), or if you want to spend $$$ a Mac Pro. Macs are comparably priced to similarly equipped PCs, and since you're looking to get something for photography you'll need that kind of power. If you get a laptop, I'd recommend a MacBook Pro, and I think that if you're looking to save a few dollars, you can get a previous generation machine (they just updated the line) for a few hundred dollars off. Then buy additional memory online (not at apple–I'm happy to suggest places) and it's easy to put it in.
You can look on the Apple site and get prices for the new machines, but also go down the apple.com/store page, and on the left side there's a Special Deals–look at refurbished and clearance items to save a few dollars. You might also be able to buy a new one with an education discount if your son is in school...
Photoshop is essentially the same. You'll find that you'll want a second monitor if you get a laptop, so look into a high quality one there.
Ben
CK Dexter Haven
10-27-2008, 07:12
Mac or Nothing. Seriously.
The 'learning curve' is not steep. It's a system you're eventually going to want to use, so why not start now? I wouldn't advise throwing another penny down a PC suckhole just so you can remain consistent with your previous 'mistakes.'
CK Dexter Haven
10-27-2008, 07:16
what exatly makes a Mac better? They boh turn on by pressing a button, then you open scanning and photoshop programs ...right?
Like the difference between a Mercedes and a Chrysler.
There is an elegance to the Mac design. It is being copied by various PC companies, but the emulation attempts are sad fakes, wrapped in a shell of suck.
Have you ever used an iPod? Compare that to something like one of the earlier Sony MP3 devices. Elegant simplicity versus convoluted anti-design. And, i used to LIKE Sony. But, that was before Apple started making things other than computers.
M. Valdemar
10-27-2008, 07:18
Make sure you store the Mac in an appropriate designer bag.
Like the difference between a Mercedes and a Chrysler.
There is an elegance to the Mac design. It is being copied by various PC companies, but the emulation attempts are sad fakes, wrapped in a shell of suck.
Have you ever used an iPod? Compare that to something like one of the earlier Sony MP3 devices. Elegant simplicity versus convoluted anti-design. And, i used to LIKE Sony. But, that was before Apple started making things other than computers.
RicardoD
10-27-2008, 08:54
Get a Mac, I don't have one for my photo work, but started using them at work exclusively. My next PC will be a mac, I have too much invested in my current machine to switch over at home, but since you are started anew buy a Mac. Whichever one you can afford should work fine for you.
the difference between a PC and a Mac is same as a FSU camera and a Leica. One u will always work on one u will not. one works better at everything one does not. one will last one will not. One is built with the user in mind one is not. one u will wish u bought the other and with a mac u will know u got the best. Ask my hard headed children who own dells when they come to use my mac cause their computer is broke or has a virus and they will tell you on this subject I know what Im talking about. But if you like fixen things go with a PC you will get a chance to learn how to fix a computer. As far as operating system goes if you know how to use windows u can use a mac basically same GUI without the flaws.
Mac is the way to go; but if you decide to go PC anyway, get as much RAM as you can cram into your new box, and don't go with Vista. It's worth paying extra to "downgrade" to XP. Linux is great, but not for everyone. Ty it out with one of the live distros (like KNOPPIX) before going all in with Linux. Good luck!
there is certainly a resounding cry of positive remarks for the Mac, so today i will see if i can take a look at them at least...I dont think there is a dedicated Mac place in Adelaide anymore though, there use to be a store in the city that had just them but it shut it doors a few years back...
not excatly sure what RAID is..some sort of external hard drive storage?
I am not sure how large a file will be from a scan of whole plate (6.5x8.5inches) or 8x10 negatives (simular to having 4 image files open as a 4x5inch neg, if someone here uses 4x5).
So would a laptop memory (or cpu) capacity be able to handle it? (its certainly bigger than a file from a 10-20Mb DSLR)
a quick check shows the Mac Pro is very expensive though ($3900AU more than i want to spend really), more than twice the price of what a high spec PC seems to cost and even then it seems to have option to add extras. so i presume this is the base model
Specifications
* Two 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon Processors
* 12MB of L2 cache per processor
* 2GB (2x1GB) of 800MHz DDR2 ECC fully buffered DIMM
* ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT 256MB (two dual-link DVI ports)
* 320GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s; 7200 rpm; 8MB cache HD
* 16x SuperDrive with double-layer support (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
1 Year Apple Warranty
not sure if the above has fire wire which would be needed for the scanner i presume.
there seems no convincing my son, he has his mind set on getting a PC for himself. his friends have PC's and he doesnt like the Macs at school, not that he knows much about them. but thats ok, it may just mean that my kids will finaly stay off my computers.
He didnt think the comparison of the Ipod to Mp3 was a winner, he feels that Ipods are way over priced (Mp3 have the same or more features) and marketing is the reason they are popular. i pointed out there was girl i went out with a year or two ago that had the Ipod system that we used, and it was dead easy.
So are there disadvantages to the Mac?
more expensive? paying for fancy look and case?
will it network with PC's and plug into (compatable) my Dlink router?
can it open and use files from my PC's? (tranfered either by USB, disk or network?)
Are some common programs not suited/compatible to work on the Mac?
thanks for the answers so far, i had no idea the macs were so popular. it was only an after-thought that i mentioned them at all in my opening post.
i want to try an get these things soon before all the prices go through the roof with the AU dollar falling so much.
my macbook cost 2000 US best money i spent. networks with pcs easy opens files if u have the program. I also have a laptop opens large pictures no problem. router worked without configuring. always comes with firewire. most good popular programs have a mac version. some companies will give u mac version in exchange for PC version or small fee. macs are dead easy as well.
thomasw_
10-27-2008, 16:38
Get a Imac desktop and a time capsule router/external HD. The best, most cost effective set up for Photography.
I have used pcs with slackware, debian and gentoo linux, with OpenBSD and FreeBSD, and with windows; the worst was Windows. Unreliable, prone freezing, viruses, lame security...do yourself a favour and drop Windows as the OS you use to browse for security reasons alone.
Seeing as everyone seems to be recommending a Mac, let's see if I can redress the balance by listing the advantages of a Windows PC...
Err...
Hm...
Nope, can't think of any :D
I use a Mac Pro in the UK (with the gorgeous 30" Cinema Display), and a 24" iMac in Thailand.
The extra grunt of the Pro (even though it's only the entry-level 4 processor one) makes a difference when I'm working with big high res scans, but the iMac isn't really very far behind (though I like the internal disk expansion in the Pro - with the iMac I need an external HD for Time Machine backup).
With both setups, I have the Mac and a PC networked on the same LAN (the PC is a company laptop that I have to carry back and forth with me), and there are no compatibility problems - I can share all documents, photos, music, etc between the two just fine.
I simply would not use a Windows computer for personal use unless I really had no option.
not excatly sure what RAID is..some sort of external hard drive storage?
"RAID — [...] — is a technology that employs the simultaneous use of two or more hard disk drives to achieve greater levels of performance, reliability, and/or larger data volume sizes." - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID)
You can either get a RAID card and two (or more) internal HDs, or an external RAID box. I use the latter, with two 500Gb HDs in it, in RAID 1 (mirror) config to give me dual copies of everything - it is network-enabled and supports a number of different communication protocols, so I can access it from any computer on the network.
Thanks heaps Fred, Alan and all with the help and advice on this...it didnt occure to me at all to consider the Mac but as suggested, i managed to play around with one for a while and it certainly appears impressive and the machine to go for...pretty much decided thats what i will get, although it does seem it may not sync with my phone the way i sync it now to outlook on the PC...and it does appear its going to cost me more than was thinking of spending overall on a PC but ya get that eh!
I get the comparison with Dell machines but i am not sure how they compare in price to a local built PC (place that sells computer parts and they put one together). not that i really understand how these parts compare to others but this (below) is an example one shop gave me.
not that i chose these parts, this was an experiment just before i began this thread because my son insisted he wanted to build his own computer and then he would build mine after, telling me it was going to heaps cheaper. so i put it to the test and went to one shop that puts together thier own units that are said to be cheap, took a brochure with the parts listed, and went to the 'parts shop' that my son and his mates say are the cheapest and had them price it all up.....it turned out being about the same price and then i found out that they only charge an extra $70 for labour to build it and install any software (with a warranty) so i suggested to my son it wasnt worth the trouble to build it himself to save $70
MBAGB99990 -G-B (AM2+-940) MA770-DS3 1 $135.00
HDDWD008-ZZ640 SATA W.D. 640GB HDD 1 $99.00
VGAPNAS9999-11 -ASUS PCI-E 512MB 9800GTX PLUS 1 $298.00
CPUA99908 AM2-940 x2 6000+ 1 $113.00
RAM85999 Kingston Value 4GB Kit (2x2GB) DDR2 800 1 $82.00
RWLG9993-1 LG SATA Black 22x DVD RW - 1 Year Warranty 1 $27.00
MTVS9798 Viewsonic 22" VX2240W-2 2ms DVI WS 1 $239.00
KBMS9997 @MS Retail 4000 Cordless Desktop 1 $64.00
SWMS9991 MS Windows VISTA 32bit Home Premium Edition 1 $145.00
PSUTT9895 600Watt. ToughPower Thermaltake PSU 1 $145.00
CASETT9990 Thermaltake Xaser VI MX Mid Black Tower Case without PSU 1 $139.00
LA01201-M9 Parts Assembly-1 Year Parts&Labour Warranty 1 $70.00
SUB TOTAL
FREIGHT
OTHER CHARGE
TOTAL INCLUDES GST
$1,414.54
$0.00
$0.00
$141.46
$1,556.00
G.S.T.
so this computer is only $1556.00AU (iMac range from $1599+extra ram needed--$2999+ram and Mac Pro about $4000) and i was told it was powerfull and has two or three fans ect. how does this configuration or something simular compare to the Mac. Just wondering if i have to say to myself i will be paying more for a Mac but getting something for it ..or whether the Macs are still about the same price as this and i am choosing the right machine with no cash penalty .
thanks again..i am glad i asked and I learnt a heap which helped me understand what i was looking at, and what to ask, while i was at the store.
I tried using mac few times and it didn't work for me...but that's probably because I'm a long time linux user and I'm used to configuring everything exactly to my needs. But if you don't have this problem, Macs can work great and you mostly don't have to worry about getting a virus, instability etc...like on windows. In my opinion, it's worth the money.
Other thing - when buying a mac, buy it with minimum memory and install additional memory yourself, you can save a lot that way. Also, there are some educational discounts from apple that your son may be able to use. And if you'd have to buy new monitor anyway, iMac might be the best option now.
If you'll go the windows route, I'd buy Intel instead of AMD. Some Core 2 Quad, 4GB RAM, motherboard based on Intel G45 chipset (if using only one monitor - integrated graphics should be sufficient - for 2D work, you really don't need anything else), decent HDD + one or two big external drives for backup.
As for monitors, you'd need at least some S-PVA panel, or ideally S-IPS - TN panels (cheapest) aren't really usable for graphic work. I have latest S-PVA 24" monitor from Dell and it's great. Read lots of reviews - monitor is probably the most important thing from the whole setup.
As for scanners, I'd say coolscans are miles away from the epson. But as you'd be buying the epson anyway, you'll see yourself if the scans are ok or not.
oftheherd
11-01-2008, 04:49
One thing you might want to consider is a bare bones kit, and bring over other things from your current PC(s). Usually quite a bit cheaper that way. Another thing about building a bare bones especially, or even ordering from a shop that builds, is that you get what you want, not what a manufacturer or seller such as Dell figures you want. Then you often have to spend more getting it tweaked just the way you want. Those store build computers in-store have found that people really do fall for the shell game. You even have to be careful about buying parts to build. Don't be afraid to ask for discounts either. It often works in the US.
RAID mentioned above stands for Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks. If you want one and aren't computer literate, savy, and adventuresome, buy something already set up. They have their place, and in application are convenient. Most of us can simply back up to another disk, those things we value.
Pherdinand
11-01-2008, 04:50
It ain't that difficult to learn using a Mac. I'm telling you,after 15 years of Windows i was easily hopping over. And there are even helping documents oriented to longtime windows users to facilitate this. :)
The iMac's are great tools. I have a macbook (needed portability) but it also works great for me, although screen is obviously way too small for this.
oftheherd
11-01-2008, 04:59
I am sure MACs are good. I just didn't like Apple's pricing in the old days (80s) and their lack of support for gaming as well as applications. Commodore was much more fun to my mind. I thought even their applications were better. Commodore certainly had the best programmers around, as evidenced by what they could tweak from the sparse memory of the Commodore. They also had a better Windows than Windows until Windows 3.1. Apple kept things locked up tight, not letting anyone under their hood. They are still around, but not as big as they could have been.
Pherdinand
11-01-2008, 04:59
Maybe more important than operating system/platform: get a screen calibration tool (spider express is cheap and good enough). Learn a bit about color profiles. Get as much ram as you can afford (and make sure your computer can accomodate at least 2 gig). I have only 1 gigabyte but it slows things down with medium format scans already.
The v700 is quite good for medium format, and of course much better for large format than a nikon 9000 would ever be :) I say go for it, and eventually upgrade it with the "better scanning" film holders. I use the originals, that are less than ideal but work okay.
chippy,
first - the scanners
- Epson V700 is ok for 4X5 -8X10, but will give you lots of problems with anything smaller, because of film flatness problems and effective resolution (it has been estimated at 2200dpi)
- Nikon CS9000 with glass carrier is a must for MF and tackles 135mm well, beware, a 48bit RGB scan from a 6x6 frame comes out at roughly 700MB each, this means you will need an external disk of 1 terabyte for every 135 6x6 scans!
second - the screen
- just like lenses are essential for taking pictures, a good monitor is essential for elaborating pictures, best monitors are specialized versions of NEC or La CIE, and can cost more than the computer itself, MAC cinema displays are also good, but come behind these...
third, the printer
- a good inkjet printer will give results as good or better than a lab, but you have the advantage of being able to control the printing process - for small volume work they are indispensable, don't waste your time with Epson R2400, because the cartridges are too small, go directly to 3800 or better
fourth, the calibtrator
- you have to calibrate the whole chain, possibly including the printer profiles, so take this into account, as the complete products don't come for free...
fifth, the computer
- for whatever reason Mac's are preferred in this field, I have worked with both a Mac and a PC, and would second the idea that a Mac is better - I have also read that at present you can use the RAM more effectively on a Mac, but this may change as we go, however I have a negative experience with my iMac as far as the screen goes - I started getting lines of burned pixels after a couple of years of daily use, so I'd recommend a professional screen (NEC or pro line Mac) with a normal big case Mac housing
finally, as you may have understood already, the bigger the format the bigger the files, so get a RAID set of external hard drives with several terabyte space, or your storage will overflow after a few weeks
estimated cost to consider for a serious "starter kit" is in the range of 10-15k USD
peripatetic
11-01-2008, 06:59
I program Windows and Linux computers for a living. At home (and particularly for photography) I use a Mac Pro. They ARE more expensive. But worth it.
Go for a minimum spec Mac Pro and then load up with some RAM from Crucial.com and a couple of extra 1Tb hard drives from Dabs.com or similar. Saves a fortune.
Then you will need either Lightroom or Aperture, and Photoshop CS or Elements. That should get you going.
One thing you might want to consider is a bare bones kit, and bring over other things from your current PC(s). .......
RAID mentioned above stands for Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks. If you want one and aren't computer literate, savy, and adventuresome, buy something already set up. They have their place, and in application are convenient. Most of us can simply back up to another disk, those things we value.
yeah ..i did think of that for a while oftherherd. but came to the conclusion there wouldn't be much in the old box that wouldn't need updating or replacing...i thought that at best i could replace just a few components to update it a little and fix it , and then let the kids use it...they do anyway! even though this is meant to be mine. one advantage to a mac may be that my sons may be less inclined want to use it and i wont have to put up with the agony of finding yet another program installed that i didn't authorise...the scary part is my daughter has said she really likes the macs at school haha
thanks for the info on RAID...with everything else to get a handle on though this is still something i havn't looking into...it appears expensive at first glance and the method of having an standard external HD storage seems easier to grasp
chippy,
first - the scanners
- Epson V700 is ok for 4X5 -8X10, but will give you lots of problems with anything smaller, because of film flatness problems and effective resolution (it has been estimated at 2200dpi)
- Nikon CS9000 with glass carrier is a must for MF and tackles 135mm well, beware, a 48bit RGB scan from a 6x6 frame comes out at roughly 700MB each, this means you will need an external disk of 1 terabyte for every 135 6x6 scans!
second - the screen
- just like lenses are essential for taking pictures, a good monitor is essential for elaborating pictures, best monitors are specialized versions of NEC or La CIE, and can cost more than the computer itself, MAC cinema displays are also good, but come behind these...
third, the printer
- a good inkjet printer will give results as good or better than a lab, but you have the advantage of being able to control the printing process - for small volume work they are indispensable, don't waste your time with Epson R2400, because the cartridges are too small, go directly to 3800 or better
fourth, the calibtrator
- you have to calibrate the whole chain, possibly including the printer profiles, so take this into account, as the complete products don't come for free...
fifth, the computer
- for whatever reason Mac's are preferred in this field, I have worked with both a Mac and a PC, and would second the idea that a Mac is better - I have also read that at present you can use the RAM more effectively on a Mac, but this may change as we go, however I have a negative experience with my iMac as far as the screen goes - I started getting lines of burned pixels after a couple of years of daily use, so I'd recommend a professional screen (NEC or pro line Mac) with a normal big case Mac housing
finally, as you may have understood already, the bigger the format the bigger the files, so get a RAID set of external hard drives with several terabyte space, or your storage will overflow after a few weeks
estimated cost to consider for a serious "starter kit" is in the range of 10-15k USD
the price is the daunting thing...i wish i had of realised this a few months back when i had that to spare.
so the scanner will have to be the V700 at first (cross my fingers that 120 film will work ok) and down the track get the 9000.
screens; those cinema screens are pricey, ouch! (particulary the 30''), heck i thought those things were much cheaper nowadays, their the same kind of money as a big screen HD plasma or LCD TV--not a pleasent suprise
calibrater; i dont know anything about this yet. this is a software thing and not hardware i presume--expensive?
Printer; I was thinking the 3800 as well, but couldn't get straight answer from the salesperson whether they would produce as good as quality as the lab or not (when i asked the lab they said no of course), and if it is an economical way to go. either way in the mean time i can get them printed at the lab i suppose.
storage; when i was in the store the other day looking at the macs the guy was saying to save to tiff files -i think it was - and compress them all to save space, with no loss in quality. The size of the files we couldn't agree on--he was of the opinion that the negs only need be scanned at 300dpi or there-abouts and i was of the opinion that this didnt make sence considering i notice the difference in contact printing to enlarging (wet process). so logicaly this represents to me to scan at the highest res to keep detail. i dont mind the prospect of having to have a few terabites of storage but i hardly like the prospect of needing a room full of them. i can only imagine that many negs i will keep filed the old fashioned way (in cabinettes) with many stored on the computer in basic form (JPEG ?) with all details written what settings are needed to produce the print--simular to what i write down for each negative to wet print now.
i have been reading up on the sofware and that program Lightroom 2 looks to be just the thing to organise photo-files ect. photoshop CS4 seems like a usefull addition (like the idea of panorama stitching) but i am not sure just how much i will need that program if much at all, and not sure if the basic PS elements does panorama yet.
I program Windows and Linux computers for a living. At home (and particularly for photography) I use a Mac Pro. They ARE more expensive. But worth it.
Go for a minimum spec Mac Pro and then load up with some RAM from Crucial.com and a couple of extra 1Tb hard drives from Dabs.com or similar. Saves a fortune.
Then you will need either Lightroom or Aperture, and Photoshop CS or Elements. That should get you going.
tar thanks...seems like good advice...
ironically the ram the store sells is cheaper than what Apple quote, they said that they get it cheaper from them...whether there telling the truth i dont know, perhaps they are getting it from other sources as well.
Lightroom 2 seems like a great program from what i have seen so far so i am keen to use it...photoshop i downloaded a trail version and it no doubt has a learning curve to it--(read didnt get far with it!)
If you go for a Mac, I'd definitely agree with the suggestion to get the minimum memory and upgrade it yourself - Apple's prices for extra memory are extortionate.
For example, if you want a 24" iMac with 4Gb (the max) instead of the standard 2Gb, the UK Apple store want an extra £100 (ie £100 for the extra 2Gb). But I bought a 4Gb set from Crucial for approx £50 and installed that (and I have the original 2Gb that I'll offer on eBay when I get back to the UK).
Price differentials on memory for my Mac Pro were even more extreme, though I can't remember the details now - again, I got Crucial memory.
Apple's HD upgrade prices are also expensive, but not as bad as memory prices, and it's a lot harder to upgrade the HD in an iMac (so I just use an external as extra storage). But for my Mac Pro I went for the entry level 320Gb and added an extra internal 500Gb myself - it just plugs in without even any wires.
- Epson V700 is ok for 4X5 -8X10, but will give you lots of problems with anything smaller, because of film flatness problems and effective resolution (it has been estimated at 2200dpi)
I've been getting great 35mm scans from my V700. Film flatness can be a problem, but there are ways round it. What I do is wind my negatives onto a film developing spiral the wrong way round (emulsion out) for a while before scanning (some films only need a couple of hours, others seem to need overnight), and they come out flat enough to scan pretty well.
And though I can't make any claims as to the effective resolution, the results I get make me seriously doubt that 2200dpi estimate.
I refuse to get into a Mac vs. PC thing, but Adobe goes to great pains to insure that Photoshop is identical, button by button whether you are on a Mac or PC... so if you can navigate to Photoshop... it really doesn't matter that much. You can work with either. Also, photo editing is now very low resource demands, even with scanned LF images, a low to med. machine with 2-3 gigs RAM will work just fine, really, it doesn't matter that much. What you will want is a very good moniter and a calibration system immediately. CRT screens are much better than all but the most expensive LCDs. No body is selling windows machines with anything but Vista installed... it's kind of a pain. I would get the Nikon 9000 if you intend on scanning 35mm film, the Epson is good, but the Nikon will be noticably better for 35mm IMO.
let's see... less than half the price? Nahhh... that doesn't matter to any of us here...
>>Seeing as everyone seems to be recommending a Mac, let's see if I can redress the balance by listing the advantages of a Windows PC...
Personally, I would just skip Lightroom and Elements and get CS4. elements has all kinds of little annoying limitations just to make you realize you need photoshop (Curves is enough just on its own). CS4 does everything you need an more and you will not ever have to move up to it.
my general rule for estimating effective resolution from Epson flatbeds has been about half, and I scan at full resolution and then immediately down sample and it smooths out noise and grain aliasing. 3700ppi isn't bad at all after good PP, especially for larger formats.
the price is the daunting thing...i wish i had of realised this a few months back when i had that to spare.
I mean no offence to the person who suggested it, but the idea of a *minimum starter kit* costing US$10-15,000 is a bit of an exaggeration.
An iMac, or entry-level Mac Pro with monitor, with some extra HD storage (a combination of internal/external depending on which Mac), a V700, and a printer (no idea which one) would make a great starter kit and would cost a lot less than that.
And it simply isn't true that you'll fill up terabytes within weeks (unless you scan everything you can get your hands on at maximum resolution TIFF, or other uncompressed format, and work 24 hours a day at it), so you can start with a modest amount of HD storage and add to it as and when you need it (you can plug 4 internal HDs into a Mac Pro, for example, and bigger ones always get cheaper if you wait).
so the scanner will have to be the V700 at first (cross my fingers that 120 film will work ok) and down the track get the 9000.
120 scans very well on my V700 - you really should use it for a while and see the kind of results it's capable of before you even think of an upgrade.
screens; those cinema screens are pricey, ouch! (particulary the 30'')
They are, yes. After moving house I found myself with more spare cash than I'd intended to spend on new computer gear, I'd always wanted a 30" display since the very first time I saw one, and I thought if I didn't buy one then I never would. But there are some pretty decent LCD monitors from third parties at very decent prices these days - the 21" to 23" size range seems to be pretty competitive.
I've been working with PC and Macs for the past 15 years. When I had to buy a computer for my dad to handle mostly his pictures, I bought a mac without having to think much about it. It might look more expensive, but everything ends up just being simpler and working for people that are not advanced computer users.
The additional cost (which is not large, especially if you are buying one computer every 6 years) is just invested in comfort, reliability, quality and design.
If you like spending time in front of the computer, you'd probably want a PC, there are more softwares, more things to tweak, and they offer greater potential for cheaper. If you just want to process your pictures with aperture/photoshop, scan, print... you probably want a Mac.
chippy
For the V700, you have to fine tune the holder focus and keep the film flat with these, just to have an acceptable scan
http://www.betterscanning.com/scanning/models/vseries.html
As far as the printer goes, Epson 3800 will give you better prints than these you can get from the lab, if you know how to set it up, but it will be slower and more expensive for high volume
The calibration of the monitor can be done with this: http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/spyder2pro.html, it is more costly to get the paper calibrating kit, but FWIW I have used the factory Epson, Ilford and Haehnemuehle profiles, and am quite happy.
I would say, do not settle on a solution with a small screen - a big screen is mandatory for serious work, the laptops are only good for reviewing your digi shots on location.
Personally, I would just skip Lightroom and Elements and get CS4. elements has all kinds of little annoying limitations just to make you realize you need photoshop (Curves is enough just on its own). CS4 does everything you need an more and you will not ever have to move up to it.
cheers mh
I can imagine what you mean with limitations between Elements and Photoshop CS4 (thanks for your tip). Do you know if there is much/any difference with the academic sold CS4 version?
but dont get your meaning between Lightroom 2 and Photoshop. arnt they programs for different uses? even though in Lightroom 2 you can work to some extent on an image, i thought its advantage was as a filing/storage system with meta tags ect?
i saw it at this site (below, it seemed a good site) and it has some video clips that explained it somewhat (they use it in conjunction with PS) and what i really liked was how photos are stored or grouped with notes atatched to each image and meta tags for easy locating. Does PS do this just as easy as well?
http://www.photoshopuser.com/lightroom2/
let's see... less than half the price? Nahhh... that doesn't matter to any of us here...
>>Seeing as everyone seems to be recommending a Mac, let's see if I can redress the balance by listing the advantages of a Windows PC...
I have a gut feeling you may be right--compared to a local built PC that is.
when i bought this one a long time back and it was considered pretty high spec, i think it was only around $2500 (local built) with a LCD monitor which where expensive back then. compared to my fisrt IBM machine that was around $5500 and my next Gateway (no longer in Oz) top of the line machine that was about $6000 ,didnt enjoy seeing it turn into a $300 machine in quick time, which is why i was happy when i got this machine for a reasonable price. however its hard to ignore the advice given overall and in relation to the OS of the mac.
also after playing with it, it seemed easy to use, i also liked the web design software that comes with the mac (just software i know) but co-incidently, just lately i have been trying to learn how to make a web page. I downloaded some demo templates and have had a great deal of trouble, i also tried a couple of the free web spaces (like google free web pages and hosting) but i dont like them much and they are restrictive to make work with menus ect. the mac web design program was so easy and exactly how i imagined basic web templates should be. bound to be an equivelent in windows somewhere though i suspect, but many then expext you to have a few other programs to work them, like dreamweaver ect
I have a three-year old 17" iMac G5 I bought on close out for $900. I bought 2GB of RAM for it and that's it. It's been running non stop for the last three years without a restart, glitch or headache, much unlike every PC I owned previously. I always joke that even if the thing dies, I'll keep it on my desktop running a screen saver, because it just looks so damned good. It's a classic of modern industrial design that just happens to work as good as it looks.
I have a three-year old 17" iMac G5 I bought on close out for $900. I bought 2GB of RAM for it and that's it. It's been running non stop for the last three years without a restart, glitch or headache, much unlike every PC I owned previously. I always joke that even if the thing dies, I'll keep it on my desktop running a screen saver, because it just looks so damned good. It's a classic of modern industrial design that just happens to work as good as it looks.
OMG without a restart! thats incredible. mine too is on almost 24/7 and has been for the past couple of years, before that just most of the day. but every other day or so i have to shut it down because its sluggish to not moving at all
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