View Full Version : How do you ask people if you can take their picture?
mabelsound
10-17-2008, 12:47
One category of photography I really like, I guess you could call "street portraiture." Direct, spontaneous portraits of people who know you're taking their photo and approve. I'd like to do this, but I can't seem to conjure up the balls to ask people if I can photograph them. I always fear that men will try to kick my ass and women will think I'm a pervert. So I sneak the photos. The result is that I feel a little dirty and the picture isn't about the person, it's about the moment. That's fine, I guess, but not always what I'm after, and besides, I feel funny posting these pictures online, even when they do work out well. And posting online is the main way I show my photos to people (unfortunately).
Anybody have a good way to do this? I suspect "I'm taking a photo class--can I take you picture?" would work, especially when I'm shooting with a film camera. But it's a lie.
Do people want to know why you want the photo? And if so, do you tell them, "Just for the hell of it?" How many people say no?
mabelsound
10-17-2008, 12:50
Here are a couple of the kind of pictures I want to take. But these two people are people I already know:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2269/2442794641_9ce6662799.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2052/2442790525_4d8e577a6c.jpg
Roger Hicks
10-17-2008, 12:53
Raise the camera; smile. If they don't notice, who cares? If they do, there's the smile.
It's worked for 40+ years for me.
Cheers,
R.
helenhill
10-17-2008, 12:53
Sometimes with a Smile
sometimes a Wink
other times I tell them how Fab or Wonderful or Cool they Look
it works for me.....
Sometimes I am asked if I work for a magazine or newspaper ....
Cheers ! :) -H
eli griggs
10-17-2008, 12:55
If you are up front, polite, show real enthusiasm for what you're doing and simply tell them you'd like to take their portrait for your portfolio, without trying to snow them, I think you'll find enough willing subjects that the 'NOs' will not spoil the experience of candid photography for you.
Not fumbling with your kit and knowing when enough is enough also helps, IMO.
Cheers, Eli
Papercut
10-17-2008, 12:56
It all depends? Some people I just waggle the camera at them and they smile and nod, or wave me off.
If you're wanting more candid looking shots (as your examples above), rather than a street-side portrait, you are probably going to have to tell them (after getting permission) to "just ignore me and go about your business", because in my experience when I ask someone if I can take their picture/portrait, they pretty much all either pose (more or less) stiffly or cut-up in some way.
I don't always ask for permission, of course, but when I do, I am direct. "Hello, ma'am/sir. I'm a photographer and I'd love to take your portrait, you have such a lovely face. Do you mind?" (or some other complimentary attribute). Most people are flattered and say "yes".
mabelsound
10-17-2008, 13:03
Wow, thanks! That's quick advice. I think I'm just inhibited. Those two pictures were taken at those friends' workplaces (two bookstores, actually), and I would sort of like to try asking people if I can photograph them working. This would probably be a good way for me to ease into being more direct with my subjects, as I know a lot of the people who work downtown in my small city and wouldn't feel so awkward.
It's odd...I'm actually extremely gregarious, even loudmouthed at times. But I get freaked out approaching strangers, even for something like the time, or directions.
As for knowing when to stop, I think one or two shots is all I'd bother with. I kind of follow Eggleston in that way...one shot, you've got it or you don't, and never look back.
Roger Hicks
10-17-2008, 13:04
. . . when I do, I am direct. "Hello, ma'am/sir. I'm a photographer and I'd love to take your portrait, you have such a lovely face. Do you mind?" (or some other complimentary attribute). Most people are flattered and say "yes".
Yeah, but it's a bugger in Hungarian, or Maltese, or Romanian, or Kannada...
Cheers,
R.
ClaremontPhoto
10-17-2008, 13:06
Eyes, gesture, smile.
And they'll do the same to say 'Yes' or 'No'.
Papercut
10-17-2008, 13:07
hahaha, true! language barriers can complicate all sorts of things (some much more urgent than a portrait)! gestures are quite useful in many situations ;)
Yeah, but it's a bugger in Hungarian, or Maltese, or Romanian, or Kannada...
Cheers,
R.
Carlsen Highway
10-23-2008, 05:09
I am just into photography again after several years away. I took my new camera for one of its first walks the other day and straight away saw an older woman with a tatoo on her chin (maori traditional).
At first I was nervous and then I remembered how I used to do it.
You should be extremely polite. With a smile you ask them very politely if you can take thier picture. Most people will agree. I only ever had a couple that didnt. most people are either flattered or both flattered and bemused both.
Do it quickly. No screwing around with exposure settings or focusing.
Then when you have it, smile again and thank them and say, it will make a nice picture.
If you dont get what you want exactly - quite often you wont, because everything changed when they suddenly 'posed" for you - try and engage them in some small talk, and then steal a shot off the cuff. Some will be amused that you got them again, most will ignore it. Then thank them and you continue on your way.
Thats how I do it anyway. Nearly everyone will find it totally incomprehensable that you are taking pictures of people that you dont know.
No one has ever asked me "why".
Dont ever take a picture of someone who says "no", or doesnt reply to you, no matter how compelling the opportunity may be. You may not be taking their souls, but your still taking something.
If you walk the streets for a day, the hardest people shots - were they are aware of you (asking permission) or taking shots where they will be aware after youve done it - is the first one. After that you have broken your mental ice; like talking to the first person at a party where you dont know anyone.
After that you will be okay.
This type of photography is a social actiivity, unlike other subject where the only person inviolved is the photographer himself. Therefore howver mild, a social barrier must be crossed and a relationship is made with anohter person, even if it is fleeting.
(Caveat - This is in New Zealand, where most people are fairly amiable.It may not work in other places.)
This type of photography is a social actiivity, unlike other subject where the only person inviolved is the photographer himself. Therefore howver mild, a social barrier must be crossed and a relationship is made with anohter person, even if it is fleeting.
Carlsen Highway, I agree with just about everything you've said, but what you said here really hit the mark. This is what makes this type of photography so challenging, and so very rewarding. You've summed it up so eloquently.
Al Kaplan
10-23-2008, 06:17
http://bp0.blogger.com/_b7J54W1JOoc/R7oUnOewOJI/AAAAAAAAA3M/v4lhW4zIgmM/s1600-h/1.jpg
I don't ask. If somebody asks me why I just tell them that I've been doing it for over fifty years, I always carry a camera, used to work for the paper, it's habit, and if they're lucky they'll end up on my blog www.thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com.
I usually engage them in a bit of conversation as quickly as possible, either before or after I start clicking. I've got some gimmicks that help, like always carrying around that toy monkey. People don't feel threatened by a grown man walking around town with a camera and a toy monkey on his shoulder. I usually explain that "I'm working on a project" which will hopefully end up as a book, that I'm using an ultra-wide angle lens and that I'm in the photo too, and hand them a card with my cell #, email, and blog address, and that I don't know when it might show up on the blog.
By that point in the conversation I've often already switched from the 15mm lens to a camera with a 50 or 85 and I'm shooting tight head shots while looking through the finder instead of holding the camera off to the side. Another gimmick that works, if you can keep a straight face, is to alternate between talking "with the monkey" and with the subject saying things like "Monkette (this monkey's name) would like you to turn your head a bit more to the left and lift your chin up more" as if Monkette is directing the shoot. http://bp2.blogger.com/_b7J54W1JOoc/R7eEWeewOHI/AAAAAAAAA28/_tfMHMkPlSw/s1600-h/4.jpg In this shot she's carefully posed the Noth Miami city attorney, city clerk, head of the planning dept., me, and herself for a "candid" group portrait before the start of the council meeting.
* * * DON'T FORGET TO VOTE * * *
vdonovan
10-23-2008, 06:22
I also agree with Mr. Highway's view. Some photographers talk about street photography like they are going hunting or fishing: get in there and get the shot! Do whatever it takes! Sometimes it means hiding the camera or snapping and then running away.
That type of photography is not for me. I enjoy the personal interaction of asking someone if I can take their picture. It is part of the photographic process for me. If I am in a foreign country where I don't know the language I will use gestures to communicate what I want to do. Afterward I will shake their hand and maybe buy them a coffee.
I get different results, of course, from the snap 'n' run school of street photography, but this is the right kind of photography for me.
Tuolumne
10-23-2008, 06:44
Do you need a release to use such photos commercially? Like in a book, if you really were working on one.
/T
pesphoto
10-23-2008, 06:46
Do you need a release to use such photos commercially? Like in a book, if you really were working on one.
/T
interesting question. Im assuming winogrand, HCB etc didnt stop to ask for releases. Yet they have so many books with recognizable faces that they profited from.
Pherdinand
10-23-2008, 06:51
Sometimes they ask YOU to take their picture.
http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34705&d=1161553293
Pherdinand
10-23-2008, 06:59
Yeah, but it's a bugger in Hungarian, or Maltese, or Romanian, or Kannada...
Cheers,
R.
Well, just for your future success,
"Jó napot hölgyem/uram, fényképész vagyok és szeretnék önröl egy portrét készíteni, nagyon megnyerö az arca. Zavarná önt?"
"Ziua, doamna/domnule. Sunt un fotograf si as vrea sa fac portretul dumneavoastra, aveti o fatza foarte amabila. V-ar deranja?"
Somebody step in for the Maltese, please.
Carlsen Highway
10-23-2008, 07:02
I dont know about over there but here, people in public places are deemed to be int eh public domain and you may do as you wish.
just further thoughts on taking photo's of strangers on the street ( or anywhere - i dislike intensely the term "street photography')
The approach of asking for permission and true candid photgraphy is contrasted. I do both depending on what I see in front of me. But by and large, candid shots are much more difficult to do - not difficult as in technically or in getting the 'snap shot" away - difficult as in getting something that is a worthy photograph. More difficult to practise successfully.
It is very easy for the simple fact that the shot is "candid" - life recorded unknowingly - to be the only feature of the photograph at all - the photog had nothing other than to say that at this moment in time other than that he was sneaky and fast.
This results in an enormous amount of unengaging emotionally empty candid photographs that in the end are really meaningless.
I speak of my own pictures naturally; but I recognise it in others. We are doomed to see our own faults in others and condemn them out of proportion probably.
Al Kaplan
10-23-2008, 07:06
You need a release for "commercial use", such as the photo being used in an ad. To post it on a forum, as part of a book, or editorial useage in a newspaper or magazine, no you don't need a release. Using a photo of the cover of a magazine to adverise the magazine itself runs into a bit of a grey area, but I've never heard of anybody being sued. Well known personalities like actors, singers, political figures, etc. have prety much relinquished their right to privacy. You're not likely to get sued if you catch a picture of a well known but married actor cavorting on the beach with somebody else's half naked wife and it appears on the cover of a supermarket tabloid.
Papercut
10-23-2008, 07:14
It is different in different countries, of course.
As I understand it, in the US at least, you do not need a model release except when you use the photo for commercial or "endorsement" purposes. Endorsement includes things like advertising, public relations for an organization or political party/candidate, etc. Publishing a book of art photos is not endorsement or "commercial use" in the US and requires no model releases.
edit: hah, Al beat me to it! :D
Do you need a release to use such photos commercially? Like in a book, if you really were working on one.
/T
Papercut
10-23-2008, 07:24
I completely agree with this excellent observation. And, for me at least, it applies for both street portraits (of the kind we're discussing here) and more general candid shots of strangers. In either case, I find that as soon as I reach my destination and start shooting that I need to "break the ice" or get in the groove right away or I will be timid and unengaged for a long time, possibly the whole day.
So, I either ask someone -- ANYONE -- right away or (for candid "street" photography) make sure I shoot four or five frames quickly. It doesn't matter if I know they are going to be trash shots or not, the point is to put myself into "image mode" by hitting the ground running. It works well for me, after the initial burst or encounter, I find I am seeing a lot more photograph-worthy people and scenes than if I start off slow.
-- Kevin
If you walk the streets for a day, the hardest people shots - were they are aware of you (asking permission) or taking shots where they will be aware after youve done it - is the first one. After that you have broken your mental ice; like talking to the first person at a party where you dont know anyone.
After that you will be okay.
dazedgonebye
10-23-2008, 07:30
I was thinking of a t-shirt that says, "I'll pay you $1 if you let me take your picture."
Do you need a release to use such photos commercially? Like in a book, if you really were working on one.
/T
In Québec you MUST ask for a release if you are to use the photos commercially, UNLESS you can prove that the public interest trumps one's person's right to their image. Commercial use includes selling "fine art prints" or publishing a book about the quaint manners of countryfolks...
So press photographers do not have to bother with releases, but HCB could NEVER, NEVER work in the current Québec context. Otherwise he would get sued all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada.
I wish it was different, but dura lex, sed lex. There has been lobbying efforts against this law, but they have abated of last.
So what's my trick to ask for a release? Well, I keep my camera visible all the time, smile, ask kindly, and do not insist. Having an assistant to take care of the signature is great.
Obviously you cannot capture much a passerby's spontaneity like that, so you have to work in a different style. Photographing people at work is a good way to recover some of that spontaneity. You stay close to them, observe them while they work, and eventually they stop being self-conscious.
Papercut
10-23-2008, 08:06
Does that horrible law apply only for Quebec or all of Canada?
Gabriel M.A.
10-23-2008, 08:59
Anybody have a good way to do this?
I ask politely.
FallisPhoto
10-23-2008, 09:23
One category of photography I really like, I guess you could call "street portraiture." Direct, spontaneous portraits of people who know you're taking their photo and approve. I'd like to do this, but I can't seem to conjure up the balls to ask people if I can photograph them. I always fear that men will try to kick my ass and women will think I'm a pervert. So I sneak the photos. The result is that I feel a little dirty and the picture isn't about the person, it's about the moment. That's fine, I guess, but not always what I'm after, and besides, I feel funny posting these pictures online, even when they do work out well. And posting online is the main way I show my photos to people (unfortunately).
Anybody have a good way to do this? I suspect "I'm taking a photo class--can I take you picture?" would work, especially when I'm shooting with a film camera. But it's a lie.
Do people want to know why you want the photo? And if so, do you tell them, "Just for the hell of it?" How many people say no?
Shoot first, ask questions later. Yes, you need a release for commercial use, and here in Virginia it also takes a $10 minimum payment to make the release valid (releases without payment are not enforcable contracts and if the payment is under $10, any case will likely be dismissed out-of-hand). It is as if they were deliberately trying to eliminate street photography here.
Gabriel M.A.
10-23-2008, 09:28
Shoot first, ask questions later.
That's the First and Second Amendments put together, eh? ;)
capitalK
10-23-2008, 10:14
There a saying that goes something like "it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission."
Not only can this apply to street photography, but also when I show up at home and my wife asks "is that a new camera/lens/other toy? you didn't have that before"
:D
pesphoto
10-23-2008, 10:20
i just shoot and move on. If its a situation I dont feel comfortable with I pass up the shot and look for something else. I dont interact.
Encinalense
10-23-2008, 10:40
Gestural language can even be difficult across certain cultural divides. I asked the guys in the first picture if I could take it -- both in English and by gesturing with the camera -- and what I got in response was the side-to-side head motion from that part of the world. Half yes, half no (to the Western eye, I mean). So I took a couple pictures. They didn't seem to care.
In the second one, the subject spotted my camera and held her child to pose. Lucky.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/../photopost/data/500/F1060002.JPG
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/../photopost/data/500/r001-0192.jpg
FallisPhoto
10-23-2008, 12:54
That's the First and Second Amendments put together, eh? ;)
Well, that doesn't really work that well with the second amendment -- not if you want answers to the questions.
Now with photography, I guess it depends on whether you are doing street photography or environmental portraits in an urban setting. Street photography is always candid. What the OP is calling street portraits, never is.
I try not to as I prefer candids. Asking invariably results in a person looking uncomfortable, wondering where to put their hands and whether their hair is straight, looking oddly at the camera, when usually what I want is them going about their business and ignoring me. Much better to smile nicely afterwards and seek forgiveness.
Sisyphus
10-23-2008, 13:57
May I take your picture?
Sisyphus
10-23-2008, 14:05
I should offer more of an explanation,; most of the time I just ask. At first, they will pose, then i might pose them or move this way or that way, take my time, or pretend I am adjusting my camera, but I am actually ready to photogrpah, and I simply wait for the moment between the between moments--if that makes sense.
Other times, I might position myself where I have a dynamic background or where there is dynamic formal elements, and I will wait until someone walks into my frame. Other times, I might just smile and point the camera towards them, getting a nonverbal que of yes or no.
There is not one specific way, just go out and practice. the key I think is to always be honest, respectful, gracious and polite even if the answer is no verbally or nonverbally.
I hope that is a better response . . . did not mean to sound like smart*!! in the fisrt post.
I hope that helps.
:S:
I approach them directly, look straight into their googles and say "may I take your photograph, please"
It works each and every time :)
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l217/Cliff_Edge/supergoff-1.jpg
Eyes, gesture, smile.
And they'll do the same to say 'Yes' or 'No'.
I agree with Jon, I also try to give people enough time to say "no" but not enough to lose the shoot.
Then, many times the request comes at end of a nice talk about what the subject is doing, or the place where he/she lives ecc, ecc. and so taking a photo becomes quite natural and a pleasant experience for both.
Most of the portraits I took in Turkey (if you want you can take a look in my blog) this year are taken after a brief friendly "relation" with the subject. This way I can get some portraits and, much more valuable, I can get some interesting story helpful to understand the place and the people I'm visiting.
Ciao.
williams473
10-24-2008, 11:47
I feel that if you are fighting this internal mental battle as to whether or not you should be making the portrait, you will feel rushed. The pressure will taint your perceptive abilities and the resulting photograph will appear contrived and the expression of the person guarded. Course, there are exceptions to everything, but there's a lot to be said for getting to know a subject for a while, prior to photographing them. If both of you are comfortable, there is a cooperative, relaxed relationship that is conducive to creativity. If portraiture is really where you want to focus, try really "studying" people you know and bring out things in them you wish to convey. We don't know you know them - use that to your advantage and use them like models to express yourself.
Otherwise, just accept that the individual in your image is in fact, as was said by someone else, just part of the landscape, and use them as the focal point for a well composed, timed image in which the notion of the person's identity is not really conveyed.
Interesting...
I think this is pretty much a Quebec only affair. Also, if a person "happens" to be there, meaning the person itself is not the main subject, the person is not protected by this interpretation of the law, or is that wrong to assume?
Interesting...
I think this is pretty much a Quebec only affair. Also, if a person "happens" to be there, meaning the person itself is not the main subject, the person is not protected by this interpretation of the law, or is that wrong to assume?
Sorry - this was out of context. Meant as a reply to an earlier post about the strict law in Quebec...
I think the initial question has two aspects. One is a legal one, and at least in the US, if you are in a public place etc etc you can take pictures of most anything without asking for permission. Then, there is the moral one, which only you can decide. I, for my part, have taken only a few street photos of random people without asking and only had one experience where the subject - interestingly a street performer - yelled at me for having taken his picture. The guy was a little bit out of line for my taste, as the main subject of the shot was my kid giving him money for an excellent performance...
st3ph3nm
10-24-2008, 23:55
My problem isn't asking permission of total strangers - my day job is sales, and if I could knock on total stranger's doors for years and years to sell xyz, I can sure as hell ask them if I can take a photo - so far, about one "no" response, to 20 or more "yes". (Wish my sales hit rates were that good, when I did door to door!)
My problem is then getting close enough to make a 35mm focal length lens do the job well.
My advice, for this kind of shooting, and your own comfort, at least start with at least a longer lens. I screwed up some nice photos on the "pass the camera" project by not being close enough to the subjects. Robert Capa was right.
Cheers,
Steve
This type of photography is a social actiivity, unlike other subject where the only person inviolved is the photographer himself. Therefore howver mild, a social barrier must be crossed and a relationship is made with anohter person, even if it is fleeting.
I agree with Marke. This is a very insightful comment, well expressed and deserves consideration. Thank you Carlsen.
Using a photo of the cover of a magazine to adverise the magazine itself runs into a bit of a grey area, but I've never heard of anybody being sued.
Actually there was a very famous lawsuit along those lines against the NY Times magazine, it had to do with the use of a photo of a black businessman taken on the street to illustrate an article about African Americans in corporate America or something like that. The photo was taken on the street but the guy sued. I'll try to remember to look it up and post the details, was quite a while ago. I beiieve the lawsuit hinged on the fact that the photo was in the magazine not the regular paper and was thus seen as promoting the magazine, not as pure journalism. Maybe someone else can remember better details.
I think it also depends on the personality of the photographer. Some people thrive on social interaction, and for them the street portrait after asking permission or a little chat would be the preferred approach.
I'm rather a solitary type myself and not one to easily talk to people (even people I know). I prefer to observe life as it happens around me, and my ideal is trying to capture little "stories" that unfold around me in real life in one picture. I guess this is what's commonly called "street photography", and it's very difficult to pull off successfully. But te people component can sometimes be a bit problematic for me indeed.
Concerning the "droit à l'image", in France it's currently very draconian. The like of HCB, Doisneau and Ronis could not have done what they did in contemporary France. I'm not sure but I think here in Belgium it's similar to the French situation.
The question is of course, if you use someone's picture without their permission, how much chance wuold you have of running in trouble? I follow several Belgian photo blogs that publish candid people portraits all the time (admittedly taken with long lenses - not my preferred approach; I tend to use a 24mm instead), and I don't think they've ever run into trouble (yet).
Of course, they mainly publish flattering pictures, so people are less likely to complain. Therefore, one of my basic principles is, even if I take candid pictures of someone, I always try to show them with respect and never to ridicule anyone (although that's subjective of course).
Very good question which I have been studying myself.
Basically I can point to two ways. One is the formal one, in which I ask with my mouth in my most educated way. I did not get a single "yes" this way. So I left this approach on behalf of a more subtle one:
Now whenever I want to ask, and I ask sometimes, I ask with my camera. I, E, I prepare myself to the shot pointing the camera towards the subject as everyone anytime, but I don't shoot until the subject becomes aware of my presence. Then a few times I got a rejection, most of the times the subject stops looking at me and continues with his/her previous occupation - THIS IS A YES.
Nevertheless some times due to the circumstances or my own perception of the circumstances, I am compelled to ask with words.
Therefore so far we have three ways:
a) asking with the mouth
b) askiing with the camera
c) not asking at all, using a silent shutter and/or a pushy approach in case of necessity.
I think a good street portratist has to exercise himself/herself in the three options and act by his/her instinct.
Cheers,
Ruben
Roger Hicks
10-25-2008, 02:22
Concerning the "droit ŕ l'image", in France it's currently very draconian. The like of HCB, Doisneau and Ronis could not have done what they did in contemporary France. I'm not sure but I think here in Belgium it's similar to the French situation.
The question is of course, if you use someone's picture without their permission, how much chance wuold you have of running in trouble? I follow several Belgian photo blogs that publish candid people portraits all the time (admittedly taken with long lenses - not my preferred approach; I tend to use a 24mm instead), and I don't think they've ever run into trouble (yet).
Of course, they mainly publish flattering pictures, so people are less likely to complain. Therefore, one of my basic principles is, even if I take candid pictures of someone, I always try to show them with respect and never to ridicule anyone (although that's subjective of course).
See:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58784&highlight=convention+human+rights
Cheers,
R.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3HXILo9Znk&feature=related
check this out for a different perspective
Following on from that link, I found a lot of related info on http://www.wnyc.org/streetshots/.
Carlsen Highway
10-26-2008, 00:06
I think Ruben is correct; both candid and 'talking' to people before taking their picture as a portrait are techniques equally available to the photographer and will be used as the subject dictates.
I tend to do both myself, although the majority of my pictures fall under the 'candid' approach. I will usually approach somebody if they themselves are 'interesting'. These shots fall under the definition of character studies.
I come back to this thread because I just came back from town after phtographing an elderly gentlemen outside a pub having a smoke. I initially saw 'the picture' and took it as I approached him.
I saw as I came closer that he had a face with character. I think when you get old enough, your face shows exactly who you are, there is no hiding yourself from age. I then asked him for a picture. He was happy with that - in fact his response was "Just finishing off the roll hey?"
I took another shot - the man composed himself for a photo. I then chatted for a couple of minutes - about beer if I remember - and in the process took two further unposed candid pictures in the midst of the conversation. And then I conintued. You can have it both ways, and also meet some interesting people.
This is how I do it if I can. Theres is no real technique to any of it, when I think about it. It's about handling people.
There is a difficulty in purely candid pictures as I mentioned earlier - Cartier Bresson has been accussed of being "unfeeling" in his approach to people and I believe it comes from his wish for stealth, a side effect if you will. It necessarily dictates not being as involved with your subject.
Robert Frank was a great lesson to me. His book The Americans is a textbook study on a photographer being an outsider.
(Further - I recall him describing his six trips over two years driving across the United States, and he confessed that he only actually spoke to one person. )
rolleistef
10-26-2008, 15:22
Some pictures are impossible to take if the permission's asked. I'm very shy actually, and I've got slight difficulties asking. But for example, if you want to take a photo of that lady making her up on the train, would you ask her?
For me, the whole point of photographing a stranger is to overcome my awkwardness, his/her awkwardness, and briefly to get to know each other.
For me there's no reason to photograph a stranger without a brief getting-to-know-you.
I say "I'd like to make your photograph." The subject will usually ask "why?" ...may ask if it's for publication or if it's "art." I tell them that I'm interested in people and that I'm not selling anything and that I'll give them a print (which I always will do...a print I'm proud to personally make). They may ask if it'll be in a gallery or similar. I say "probably not, but maybe it'll be that good...and I get their contact information because I'll send them that print, for sure.
If I don't care enough about the person to personally make a fine print and mail it to them, it'd be a waste of their time, disrespectful, to photograph them.
..OK, I'll be more honest...in fact I do occasionally photograph people without asking their permission. Those images seem never to be important to me, but they're slightly theatric or charged or have some sort of symbolic value (cheap shots, IMO). I'm reluctant to show them. Accidental images. Pseudo HCB etc.
Bill Brandt's more important to me than is HCB...Brandt did usually make important contact with his subjects. IMO he accomplished far more with photography than HCB did.... Brandt was more fully my personal idea of a photographer than was HCB... he was a printer, not a photolab customer.
When I photograph someone and don't give them a fine print that I've personally made, I've failed as a photographer...
pesphoto
11-03-2008, 08:09
IMO (just my opinion) photographers print and wannabes use labs.
sooooooo...HCB was a wannabee> :)
Tuolumne
11-03-2008, 08:11
"Hi, you look really interesting. I'm a photographer. Do you mind if I take your picture. I'd be happy to give you a copy if you provide me with your email address." Hand person your card with a space of the back that says, "name", "email address". The card makes it kind of official.
/T
OurManInTangier
11-03-2008, 08:35
Personally. I do what needs to be done in any given situation.
Sometimes I talk to someone and ask if I can photograph them, usually I just take the picture because there's either no time to ask or the interuption will disrupt the very thing that makes me wish to release the shutter. Sometimes I'll walk up to someone and point my camera right in their face and make a photo - this is usually done as I walk passed them and I've noticed something happening, this is also the rarest of events as naturally I'm an observer and not an 'In Your Face' kind of person.
Quite simply, I'll do whatever I can to successfully get the picture I see before me. Though this is within the restrictions of my own personal moral code and often against my nature as a quiet and relatively shy person.
I do this because I have missed thousands of interesting photographs in the past by being too afraid to make the picture.
sooooooo...HCB was a wannabee> :)
I went to far when I said that...so I edited , trying to explain what I meant.
But yes, I do think HCB was lite by comparison to Kertesz and Bill Brandt.
In my nearly 40years of photo book viewing, HCB's work seemed trite...but I did recently see a large exhibit of wonderfully well-made prints (maybe all 11X17) which caused me to reappraise.
Nonetheless, HCB is an amateurs favorite specifically because it's so easy to wander around aimlessly, hoping for HCB scenarios. It's harder to be intentional and to establish relationships with subjects, which is my personal trip. YMMV :-)
rolleistef
11-03-2008, 08:43
What I dislike about France - my own country, known as the most romantic place in the World, with the finest food and finest sceneries but, to my mind, with the most unbearable state of mind - is that you cannot really make any contact with anyone in the street. What can you do in a country where even looking at somebody is considered as rude and offensive?
That may only apply to Paris though.
That may explain many things about the French Humanist photographers : HCB, Willy Ronis... whose photographs were only seldom made with the agreement of the subject. Have you ever noticed the recurrence of pictures showing the back of the subjects?
Doisneau always established a contact with his subjects though. But it was a real job. Contrarily to HCB he was a nice friendly chap (HCB wasn't a very friendly character with people he didn't know) and would come several times to a café to socialise with people there. But even him admitted that after the 1980s and the great indivualist crisis with have in France since, people had become particularly reluctant to being photographed.
It does work sometimes, but with older people. And of course, the pictures are always excellent.
http://photophoto.bloxode.com/images/114451746222.jpg
We have Racine and Delacroix but pride ourselve not to need anyone to be happy.
Andrew Sowerby
11-03-2008, 09:01
Does that horrible law apply only for Quebec or all of Canada?
Not sure if you've received a straight answer yet, so here it is:
Just Quebec. Quebec has a provicincial Charter of Human Rights that includes the right to privacy. The Supreme Court of Canada held that this prevents photographers from publishing photos of others without permission. As you might imagine, there's a public interest exception. You can read a very brief summary of the law here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubry_v._%C3%89ditions_Vice-Versa_inc.).
Roger Hicks
11-03-2008, 10:00
That may only apply to Paris though.
Chère Stéphane,
...and possibly a few other major cities. But in la France profonde (and it doesn't get a lot more profonde than where I live), if ever I do feel the need to ask anyone, the reply is normally along the lines of 'Of course. It's your camera!' Mostly I just get a smile.
From what I can see, after 6 years living here and 35 years or so of visiting, Paris is only slightly more representative of France than New York City is of the USA. My neighbours agree, and so does my wife (grandmother from NYC, herself born in upstate New York, les Etats Unis profonds).
Amitiés,
Roger
Papercut
11-03-2008, 10:28
Thanks for the direct answer and the link, Andrew. Much appreciated!
Not sure if you've received a straight answer yet, so here it is:
Just Quebec. Quebec has a provicincial Charter of Human Rights that includes the right to privacy. The Supreme Court of Canada held that this prevents photographers from publishing photos of others without permission. As you might imagine, there's a public interest exception. You can read a very brief summary of the law here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubry_v._%C3%89ditions_Vice-Versa_inc.).
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