View Full Version : where a windfall should fall?
freeranger
10-15-2008, 13:37
I am not ashamed of the fact! I have recently been lusting after the zeiss ikon. I am a glasses wearer and have a modest collection of LTM lenses waiting to try out an adapter, so I believe we would be a good match.
I recently took a trip to Vienna to ogle the goods in Leicashop...even raised a smile from the owner when I lasciviously asked him if I could "have a feel" (of the camera..not him!) and it was a rather delicious experience:rolleyes:
"Yes! this would be the camera for me," I thought, "if I had any money" :(
Now, In no way do I have a history of being flighty...my dreams tend to be simple and steady - but when the fuji folder was revealed at cologne last month I decided to forget my 35mm dreams and develop a financial plan to come to fruition in the spring of 2009 and bag me that buxom and untried photographic beauty.
Then today disaster struck! I have just received a windfall that would allow me to acquire the original target of my affection before Christmas :eek:
What am I to do?
Defer gratification until I can try a hitherto unknown quantity of medium formatness?
Not look a gift horse in the gob and grab the Ikon while I can?
pesphoto
10-15-2008, 13:41
If you want it BUY IT! You only live once.......
freeranger
10-15-2008, 13:45
If you want it BUY IT! You only live once.......
Thank you! I will
but which????
peripatetic
10-15-2008, 13:46
Earlier this year I found myself sitting down and looking through some of my photo books. After spending a few hours with Salgado and HCB I realised that I didn't really need medium format. If they could do what they did with a 35mm rangefinder, then I had plenty of room to grow as a photographer before my equipment became a limiting factor.
A couple of weeks later I had my ZI, and I love it.
pesphoto
10-15-2008, 13:47
Thank you! I will
but which????
hehe....both!
Roger Hicks
10-15-2008, 13:50
ZI
(See Peripatetic's post)
Cheers,
R.
freeranger
10-15-2008, 14:17
Earlier this year I found myself sitting down and looking through some of my photo books. After spending a few hours with Salgado and HCB I realised that I didn't really need medium format. If they could do what they did with a 35mm rangefinder, then I had plenty of room to grow as a photographer before my equipment became a limiting factor.
A couple of weeks later I had my ZI, and I love it.
This is a concise and beautiful argument.
I shall book my train ticket to Vienna and, if Herr Leicashop allows me back onto the premises, hand over my windfall this weekend.
Thanks for the replies gentlemen!
Earlier this year I found myself sitting down and looking through some of my photo books. After spending a few hours with Salgado and HCB I realised that I didn't really need medium format. If they could do what they did with a 35mm rangefinder, then I had plenty of room to grow as a photographer before my equipment became a limiting factor.
Seconded (thirded?). And if resolution is your concern, it is only increasing for film available in 35mm format, remarkably. I, for one, am looking forward to Ektar 100 in my Zeiss Ikon. And yet I laugh for even thinking about it; are there not other more important limiting factors (I look derisively in my own direction).
back alley
10-15-2008, 15:52
good choice, a nice silver zeiss ikon and maybe the zm 35/2.8 if the windfall can swing it.
Remember to get an LTM->M adapter for each focal length you'll be using.
Windfalls are great! I would get the ZI and some adapter rings for your lenses now and start piching pennies fro the Bessa III for early spring. You cant have too many cameras and -please- do not tell me you can!
35mmdelux
10-15-2008, 19:51
you ought to feel the Alpa w/ 6x7 Rollex back if you want sweet ..camera.
I just sold my mamiya6 to grab the ZM. No regrets. In fact I'm very happy.
If mobility and weight are important to you, go for ZM.
Al Kaplan
10-15-2008, 20:15
Go for it! Buy the ZI, get it over with! Don't forget to keep a bit of money for some film and then take to the streets.
Yes, book your ticket and get it quickly!
Because you can afford it, and because you're going to get it eventually, it's best to not delay gratification.
The ZI is a silky little camera. Start shooting with it!
freeranger
10-15-2008, 23:07
Remember to get an LTM->M adapter for each focal length you'll be using.
Why is this? does each specific adapter automatically bring up the correct viewfinder lines?
If so can they be set manually or do you have to get a focal length dedicated adapter?
jonmanjiro
10-15-2008, 23:10
Why is this? does each specific adapter automatically bring up the correct viewfinder lines?
If so can they be set manually or do you have to get a focal length dedicated adapter?
It's not possible to set the frame lines manually on the ZI, so you'll need the correct adapters for each focal length.
Zeiss Ikon for sure!
Your only doubt should be if whatever new FF DRF similar to Ikon is released by Zeiss, Nikon or whatever else.. but otherwise I'd go for the Ikon immediately.
Double Negative
10-16-2008, 07:05
The Ikon is a real pleasure to shoot with, I love mine more and more. Since I got it a couple of months ago I haven't really shot any digital. :D
totifoto
10-16-2008, 08:13
In the end you want both ;)
Get the ZI now and start saving up for MF. The Fuji camera wont be here until late next year so you have plenty of time to save up for it.
peripatetic
10-16-2008, 14:39
Now all you have to decide is which lens? Or will you stick with those you have?
But the ZF's are so lovely, will it be the 35mm f2 or f2.8 ...... or 50mm Planar or Sonnar.
I went with the 50 Planar, but I fear it is only a matter of time until the f2 Biogon becomes too tempting. [But I'm also vaguely tempted by the Canon 5DMkII.] Time to start up my photography fund again. :-)
Al Kaplan
10-16-2008, 15:04
I am just SO GLAD that I went through this years ago and got it out of my system...LOL. Now about the only time I get another body or lens is when I find one in great shape at a give-away price, and I then might sell a beat-to-hell example that's seen 20 or 30 years of hard use after I bought it second hand. I no longer find myself lusting after the latest greatest sharpest contrastiest...
I have too many regrets that I sold one lens to buy another and then I end up missing the way the first one rendered the image. It's like selling old friends and it's chasing a will-o'-the-wisp anyway. You'll never catch it.
I'm selling a Voigtlander Cosina 15mm finder in great shape for $100 shipped in the U.S./Canada. I'd misplaced mine, bought another, and then found the first one. It's in pristine condition. If you need one this is your big chance!
wizofz2k
10-16-2008, 20:47
Carpe diem, I always say. That's how I got my ZM, years ago. And the NikonF6, recently (but we're not allowed to talk about those here!). :p
Grab that camera while the windfall is fresh, and enjoy it: best r/f viewfinder one can buy, nowadays.
And yes: the LTM adapters vary which frame is set on the viewfinder, depending on the type of adapter. Three types cover all the range. Get one to match each LTM lens, it's much easier that way.
The M-mount lenses do this the same way:they set a little tab deeper or not in the right side of the mount - looking from the front - to select a given frame when the lens is mounted.
Doesn't mean you can't twiddle the frame lever after that to see what they all look like. It just means the one for the mounted lens will be selected by default.
Hi Nuno..
sometimes I wonder.. if you could compare F6 and ZI how would they look to you? I know these are two different beasts but just for that I'd like to know the experience of someone has both.
wizofz2k
10-17-2008, 05:59
oh man! Dino, I wouldn't be able to objectively compare them.
By that I mean: completely diferent beasts, different uses.
I'll give it a poke. But please take it with heaps of salt, no animals hurt performing this, etcetc, k?
the f6:
slr, so classic things like macro, extreme tele and such, dirt easy.
meter is a joy to use: precise, fast, matrix/cw/spot, programmable.
fast af. not that I use it much: I start focus with the f-l button and that's it. I'm told it has "smart follow focus": that's funny...
very little shake from the mirror: darn thing is well damped. not r/f class, but close.
mirror up: something I always liked in Nikon's pro bodies since the f2.
heavy, but not as much as I expected: a LOT less than the f5!
conspicuous! no hiding you're carrying it, although it's less bulky than f100.
uses all nikkor lenses back to AI, and meters with them in all modes.
has aperture/speed/flength burning between frames, can download shooting details to pc with a MV-1: it works a treat to update the exif of scans.
lenses are bulky as heck.
viewfinder is amazing: heaps of info, easy to follow.
flash control is outstanding. works with both old ttl flashes and new i-ttl: only slr in Nikon's lineup capable of that!
uses cr batteries without the extra grip: expensive... but there are alternatives.
without the slightest doubt the king of film slrs.
and I have quite a few to compare against...
the ZM:
small, unobtrusive, very, very light: folks smile when they see it.
lenses are very small and light and a full kit fits nicely in a couple of pockets.
viewfinder feels as big as f6 but only speed, focus patch and frames...
shutter is almost silent compared to f6.
can handhold it down to 1 sec, no way I can do that with the f6: 1/15 tops.
lenses are usually a LOT faster than current slr nikkors.
lens IQ usually rocks! slr lenses need to be very expensive to do that.
no aperture display in viewfinder. the only thing I hate about r/fs...
shutter is not as fast but 1/125 synch and 1/2000 max is plenty for me.
no ttl flash: no biggie but sometimes it's a nice to have.
ability to twiddle frames to see what another lens will do: I like that!
battery life a bit short.
meter/shutter works in 1stop increments: 1/3 stop divisions in the compensation for A-mode are just pie in the sky. this is not usually a problem with the films I use it with. others might have problems with it.
focusing is easy and precise even in almost dark, although I had to tune it myself.
the meter has a weird pattern: sort of horizontal oval, skewed to the left, relative to the frame in use. takes a while to figure out how to use it well.
did I mention most of the lenses kick ass in the IQ dept? :rolleyes:
which one I prefer?
without a doubt, both!
freeranger
10-17-2008, 09:16
:DIts Friday!
:DWonderful wife has read your advice and agrees that I should "Carpe Ikon"
:DOff to Leicashop early next week with all my pocket money
:DLife is good...have a great weekend!
Thanks, Nuno, among your many spots I found some really useful (one for all: the difference of handholding among F6 and ZI: shooting decently at 1 sec is waaay good!); actually "to steady" my F6 I use the 3 points technique (but it applies almost only for "horizontal" shots): I press it against my left shoulder with the right hand and the left hand on it for more pressure; the 3rd point is my forehead, just above my right eye. Recently, I can confirm that I got some decent/useful portraits in ambient light at 1/15-1/20s with a 50mm just using that technique.
I'm not sure if with the ZI I'd be able to do the same (NO mirror vibration but I also wonder how I could apply the same technique described above.. the F6 fits exactly the distance between my forehead and shoulder, my D200 is already a tad shorter and more problematic: i.e. I risk to get a wryneck for nothing :D )
OT: Just for the sake, I tried the "game" above with the D200 and even if I can confirm it's more difficult to fix it, these are the shots you could be able to judge:
Look at the frame on my right - For what I see, with this technique I can go down to 3 stop less than the FL used
28mm 1/25s - F/2.8 (aov of 42mm - all shots partially cropped)
http://italy74.smugmug.com/photos/396056438_tsmqa-XL.jpg
F/4 - 1/15s
http://italy74.smugmug.com/photos/396054141_9JTFU-XL.jpg
F/5.6 - 1/8s
http://italy74.smugmug.com/photos/396053993_BtNqz-XL.jpg
F/8 - 1/4s
http://italy74.smugmug.com/photos/396056076_SA2hf-XL.jpg
F/11 - 1/2s
http://italy74.smugmug.com/photos/396057473_XDM7g-XL.jpg
now at 50 mm ( = aov of 75mm - all crops)
F/2.8 - 1/30s
http://italy74.smugmug.com/photos/396058407_MMiRr-XL.jpg
F/4 - 1/15s
http://italy74.smugmug.com/photos/396059297_EhDB2-XL.jpg
F/5.6 -1/8s
http://italy74.smugmug.com/photos/396060512_GSXYQ-XL.jpg
F/8 - 1/4s
http://italy74.smugmug.com/photos/396060606_a4pDD-XL.jpg
F/11 - 1/2s
http://italy74.smugmug.com/photos/396061323_zAQ8v-XL.jpg
From what youve said the fuji is just a flirtation, rent it for a week and youll realise it was never for you,a roll in the hay,but the zeiss;now theres a camera that can cook.
freeranger
10-17-2008, 13:41
From what youve said the fuji is just a flirtation, rent it for a week and youll realise it was never for you,a roll in the hay,but the zeiss;now theres a camera that can cook.
I like your logic...My wife can't cook and I've never been tempted to try out a rental
if the zeiss can cook...mana from heaven!
wizofz2k
10-19-2008, 04:06
(one for all: the difference of handholding among F6 and ZI: shooting decently at 1 sec is waaay good!); actually "to steady" my F6 I use the 3 points technique (but it applies almost only for "horizontal" shots): I press it against my left shoulder with the right hand and the left hand on it for more pressure; the 3rd point is my forehead, just above my right eye. Recently, I can confirm that I got some decent/useful portraits in ambient light at 1/15-1/20s with a 50mm just using that technique.
I'm not sure if with the ZI I'd be able to do the same (NO mirror vibration but I also wonder how I could apply the same technique described above.. the F6 fits exactly the distance between my forehead and shoulder, my D200 is already a tad shorter and more problematic: i.e. I risk to get a wryneck for nothing :D )
Great technique Dino, thanks for that! I'll definitely give it a try with the f6.
No, with the ZI you can't do that. What I do with it is this:
Use left hand below, index finger doing the focus ring, other fingers under camera body, classic "leica" pose. BUT, I land the left thumb against my mouth, just under nose.
Right hand is on camera, but right thumb is on my right temple. Arms both tucked in, so they wobble with body.
That way, the ZI is locked to my head and I can get speed as low as 1/2 sec handheld without any major shakes. And a lot of the 1secs go through ok, if I'm leaning against something reasonably stable or sitting down. Hopefully, my head moves a lot less than my hands... :p
I read that the AIG execs are going on a worldwide camera buying junket via private jet this weekend with their windfall er I mean bailout. Stu
Fred Burton
10-19-2008, 05:17
"The execs have no bread. Let them buy ZI's!"
freeranger
10-19-2008, 05:29
Hold up a second...I never revealed that I was an AIG exec.
...who gave you this information!!!!:mad:
Nuno
try shooting with your left eye. Much less riskier. I found it a viable and valid alternative.
freeranger
10-23-2008, 11:57
Well, I've just got back from Vienna, where I took your advice and got myself the ZI.
Those who recommended it to me were spot on. It is a wonderful camera to use and look at...even the wife is rather captivated by it.
I took along my 50mm Nokton and 35mm skopar to play with. This is the first time I have felt comfortable focusing the Nokton wide open. The viewfinder is just amazing. Here are some photos:
Very first snap. Unwrapped in McD's..son more impressed with his donut!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3070/2967661456_887df386f4_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3153/2967661280_526d97381c_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3281/2967661110_81b879d494_o.jpg
Very dark in St Stephen's Cathedral. Easy to focus by candlelight!!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2347/2967660896_b65ff26819_o.jpg
Enjoy it I'm just envying you :)
Great technique Dino, thanks for that! I'll definitely give it a try with the f6.
No, with the ZI you can't do that. What I do with it is this:
Use left hand below, index finger doing the focus ring, other fingers under camera body, classic "leica" pose. BUT, I land the left thumb against my mouth, just under nose.
Right hand is on camera, but right thumb is on my right temple. Arms both tucked in, so they wobble with body.
That way, the ZI is locked to my head and I can get speed as low as 1/2 sec handheld without any major shakes. And a lot of the 1secs go through ok, if I'm leaning against something reasonably stable or sitting down. Hopefully, my head moves a lot less than my hands... :p
Confess I should see that if it's different from SLR.. and should try because I guess it's easier to do than to explain..
sojournerphoto
10-23-2008, 16:42
Those who recommended it to me were spot on. It is a wonderful camera to use and look at...even the wife is rather captivated by it.
Yes, it's a lovely machine and, like you, my wife thinks it's lovely. She likes the viewfinder and focus and it's lighter than the dslrs... plus a lot prettier.
I hope you have a long and fruitful ownership - just watch out for the creeping desire to start aquiring zeiss glass
Mike
freeranger
10-23-2008, 22:31
Yes, it's a lovely machine and, like you, my wife thinks it's lovely. She likes the viewfinder and focus and it's lighter than the dslrs... plus a lot prettier.
I hope you have a long and fruitful ownership - just watch out for the creeping desire to start aquiring zeiss glass
Mike
Thanks. Yes, I am making a great mental effort to keep out any thoughts of new lenses (for the time being).
Its a little like being a character in the movie, Village of the Damned ;)
"Brick wall...brick wall...brick wall...biogo...damn!!!!"
wizofz2k
10-31-2008, 05:52
Congrats, freeranger!
I've got St.Stefan on my books to visit one day with the ZM: love that cathedral! Was there in the
90s and never forgot it.
Ah yes, lenses. Before you go for the zeiss glass, take a tour with the CV Ultron 35/1.7 and the new Nokton 35/1.4: both are amazing in their little way. I actually like the Ultron better for colour, but I'm weird...
Amazing quality, for such an accessible price.
Maybe one day I'll be able to afford the CZ85 and the28 Biogon, but for the time being it's CV all the way. Exept for the Minolta 90/4: another mind-blowing one! ;)
Anyways, have HEAPS of fun and push that ZM: it loves it!
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