View Full Version : Help on identification FED 1S wanted
Hi all,
recently I acquired a FED 1S on *Bay from an American camera seller. It arrived in the mail today.
It features a top speed of 1/1000th and has the original lens, a FED collapsible 50mm 2.0.
The camera at some point seems to have been nominated as a donor for a Leica fake, the bottom plate was mechanically de-chromed, in a harsh way.
The top plate either was re-chromed already, or never has been engraved in the first place. There are no markings on the camera.
The lens is an original FED 50mm 2.0 collapsible, pre-war. This I know because it does not register like it should on my M3. Mounting by means of a Leica-made adapter showed the focus is clearly off, while it is accurate on the FED body. Focussing a Konica M-Hexanon on the M3 delivers the same distance.
So far, the only marking I can find is the serial number on the lens, 27151, as well as a stamped '1' and an '8', presumably these state the correction applied to the lens to make it match the body.
Questions:
Did FED bodies and lenses have the same serial number?
Does anyone know of a site where FED lens numbers and manufacturing dates are listed?
Is there any chance this camera has spent its seventy years without any engraving at all, i.e. are there any known examples that have left the factory without engraving?
Typically, is there any part inside that has a number written on it?
Any answer would be greatly appreciated. I'll post pictures of the body and lens asap, it's dark here now...
xayraa33
10-13-2008, 12:31
This site might help you.
http://sovietcamera.110mb.com/fed1/
This site might help you.
http://sovietcamera.110mb.com/fed1/
Thanks, I've been there already, but it did not do any good.
I've been through the web already, and decided to call in the experts on the matter, so I went here :)
Your purchase was discussed here. These guys are more collectors than users and know a little about the FED S - check out the Wiki catalog.
http://www.ussrphoto.com/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=894
The Wiki address is
http://www.ussrphoto.com/Wiki/default.asp?WikiCatID=98&ParentID=1&ContentID=82&Item=FED+1%2DS (http://www.ussrphoto.com/Wiki/default.asp?WikiCatID=98&ParentID=1&ContentID=82&Item=FED+1%2DS)
I am interested in FEDs (I have two 1gs and a 2L) but am by no means an expert so take anything I say with a grain of salt.
The FED-S was produced pre-war (any 1946 models are likely to be assembled from pre-war parts - so-called 1e Berdsk). No pre-war lenses and bodies exactly met the correct LTM register (except by accident) - as you noted, all lenses and bodies had to be adjusted to each other (this only changed when initial post-war production got under way at KMZ but that is another story). All pre-war lenses were uncoated.
The body numbers of the FED-S were in the same range as standard cameras (apart from the f/2 lens, the only difference was the 1/1000 speed). As you can see from the Wiki, production of about 2,000 cameras was spread over a number of years and 180,000 serial numbers.
As far as I know, no FED body or lens serial numbers ever matched and certainly the numbering of FED lenses remains a mystery. One small exception is that FED 2 lenses and cameras commemorating the 50th anniversary in 1967 (no markings on cameras, only on packaging) shared numbers beginning with 67. I know virtualling nothing about the f/2 lens but I have a database of the post-war colapsible f/3.5 50mm Elmar copies. I can tell you that serial numbers first started appearing on the front of the flange in about 1954 and a new range of numbers started in about 1950. Prior to that, numbers appeared to be consecutive but there are also claims that many lenses were unnumbered or only ehibited batch numbers.
As far as I am aware, the only body serial number appeared on the the top plate (or back on the 1g) and there are no internal parts identifying numbers etc. I have never found an authoritive list of lens numbers but the above Wiki is a decent list of f/2 numbers. You wont do any better with dates and numbers of bodies than Stephen Rothery's site (there are a number of other sites with the same or similar info). Note that your camera has already been identified as a type 1d because the 1c had the central screw partly hidden and the 1e has a bronze shutter cage.
There is no chance that the camera has never been engraved. There are so many FED-1s (and Zorkis) that have been pimped, turned into rarer versions or fanatasy versions or turned into Leicas, Reids, Leotaxes even Shanghais that any search will bring up hundreds. There is currently a stack on eBay. Yours is in the typical first stage of having its identity changed (looks a bit roughly). However, it is still a very interesting camera and a bargain compared to what it would be worth in pristine condition.
Hope this helps.
wolves3012
10-14-2008, 03:41
Questions:
Did FED bodies and lenses have the same serial number?
Does anyone know of a site where FED lens numbers and manufacturing dates are listed?
Is there any chance this camera has spent its seventy years without any engraving at all, i.e. are there any known examples that have left the factory without engraving?
Typically, is there any part inside that has a number written on it?Any answer would be greatly appreciated. I'll post pictures of the body and lens asap, it's dark here now...
Answers (with the disclaimer that I'm not an expert):
No, body and lens didn't share serial numbers.
There is a site listing body numbers and years of production. Unfortunately a dying hard-drive killed my access to it and I can't find it now - grrrr! I've never seen a similar resource for FED lenses.
It's highly unlikely the camera was unengraved from the outset unless it was made from parts stolen from the factory of something. It's more likely to have had the engraving filled in preparation for being Leica-fied. The FED S is probably rarer than many Leicas, however, so maybe someone had a change of heart.
I've never stripped a FED 1 far enough to know about part numbers inside but all the other FSUs I've tinkered with have nothing useful and obvious.
Looking at the eBay page (http://cgi.ebay.com/FED-RUSSIAN-35MM-FILM-RANGEFINDER-CAMERA-LEICA-COPY_W0QQitemZ330275996108QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 330275996108&_trkparms=72%3A1205|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A13 18&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14), I'd say the third photograph down shows discolorations where the engraved lettering (near the back, two lines) and serial number (in front of the accessory shoe) used to be.
Try at
www.fedka.com/Frames/Main_Frame.htm (http://www.fedka.com/Frames/Main_Frame.htm)
you have a page with information about russian cameras,serial numbers for FED-1 but it does not mention FED-S.
maybe they are included in the given serial numbers.
www.sovietcams.com/index.php?-1124566105
you have a section of HISTORY at : www.rus-camera.com
myweb.tiscali.co.uk/iannorris/leica_copies/leica_copies_f/fedc.htm
good luck!
Looking at the eBay page (http://cgi.ebay.com/FED-RUSSIAN-35MM-FILM-RANGEFINDER-CAMERA-LEICA-COPY_W0QQitemZ330275996108QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 330275996108&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C 240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14), I'd say the third photograph down shows discolorations where the engraved lettering (near the back, two lines) and serial number (in front of the accessory shoe) used to be.
Hello all,
First of all, thanks for your swift and accurate answers!
Every time I have time to have a closer look at the camera, it is evening. I have shot a roll with it in broad daylight today (came back from the shop already) but have examined the the top plate closely enough to be sure. Now, with the light on, it's no use.
Will do so first thing tomorrow! Thank you for noticing! It might be possible to use X-rays to conclude the originally engraved (or stamped?) serial number!?
Your purchase was discussed here. These guys are more collectors than users and know a little about the FED S - check out the Wiki catalog.
http://www.ussrphoto.com/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=894
Hi Pauls52, thanks for showing me the thread at this forum!
Currently I am discussing the camera's history and future over there, anyone interested should take a look at the above URL
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