View Full Version : Which M2 is best as a 'user'?
Benjamin
10-12-2008, 07:12
Hi, a while ago I mentioned that I was considering an M6 or an M2 as my first Leica. I've decided to go with the M2, and probably with the addition an accessory meter.
What I really want to know is which M2 is best as a user?
Are there stepped, clear cut stages in the variations of the M2? I.e, the addition of the self timer, rapid loading, button/lever rewind?
All the best,
Benjamin
Benjamin
10-12-2008, 07:14
Need I worry?
Peter A (NYC)
10-12-2008, 07:17
I don't remember there being big differences in the variations. One important thing to look out for is the rangefinder spot. Make sure it is bright and contrasty enough to use easily.
Roger Hicks
10-12-2008, 07:21
Need I worry?
Dear Benjamin,
No.
As far as I'm aware, there was never a rapid load on original M2s, though it can be added (both mine have it). The self timer is neither here not there; I can't remember if mine have them or not (they're upstairs). Button rewinds are the early ones, if I recall aright, and less common than lever rewind (both mine are lever rewind, one of them from '59).
Cheers,
Roger
Joe Brugger
10-12-2008, 07:23
Unless you're big into self-timers, there isn't much difference and condition is more important than the spec. Finding one with the rapid loader conversion is mostly a matter of luck unless you want to pay collector money for a real M2-R or the military K-version.
You probably want to make sure it has the take-up spool with it, just for convenience sake.
Early ones had a button rewind, later ones had a lever rewind. Doesn't matter. Contrast of the RF patch is most important.
Al Kaplan
10-12-2008, 07:51
The button rewind has to be held down on everyone I've used. I still use one picked up second hand in 1972. I bought it from an AP photographer right after she'd covered both the Republican and Democratic conventions in Miami Beach with it. She bought it from another guy I knew who used it during the Mexico City Olympics, but he bought it second hand at Browne's Photo Center where I shopped. The first owner had traded it in on a brand new M4.
The M2 was marketed in several minor variations: M2 with button rewind and no self timer, followed by the M2 and M2-S, both with lever rewind. The "S" had a sef timer. They then introduced a no self timer model again, designated (at least in the catalog) as the M2-X. Then there were a few years with no M2 models until a military model came out, with a civilian designation of M2-R, which had the M4 loading system. I still use my M2-R. You can't kill an M2!
For a few years Leitz offered a "rapid load" kit for the M-2 and M-3. You had to pull the spool slightly to reset the film counter on the M-3. They really were a royal pain to use. Instead of haphazarly poking the leader between prongs you had to align it and push it into a slot in the end of the spool. After a couiple of years the big mail order places closed them out for $12.50 Now, of course, they're worth a small fortune, especially if you still have the original box and instruction sheet.
At any rate, don't be hesitant about buying an M2 that's fifty years old, even if it saw heavy pro use. It'll still outlast you!
The original M2 listed for $200 in the early 60's, the M2-S was about $250, and when the M2-R came out it was sold together with a Dual-Range Summicron for $375. By that time the $5 hood had suddenly started selling for an outrageous $7 but you could still buy the leather neck strap with rubber pad for $2.98.
As for my M2-R? No collector in his right mind would want it the way it looks after forty years of ACTUAL USE, but I still have the pristine original box with matching serial number, instruction book, and a few of the Leitz brochures telling about what a great camera it is.
I second Al on the button rewind version. It is a pain to rewind as with early one #926xxx to about #940xxx you have to hold the button down as you rewind. Later M2's with the button worked better as the button stayed down on its own (at least until it got worn and started to pop out!). ANY M2 is good, but a #960xxx to 1164xxx the the best. Buy one and have it CLA'd and it should be good for another 50 years.
It is critical that your rangefinder patch is clear and contrasty and that you have a minimum of haze in the finder.
Only thing to check on a a "well seasoned " ( one step up from "beaten to hell") camera is that the "spindle" that holds the take-up spool is not too worn. It can cause the spool to "slip" - particularly with "tight" felt traps. It is a rare occurance though and usually takes 10-15 000 rolls to get that worn. Easy fix too.
As for quick load kits, I dont like them, but thats my personal opinion. Too fiddly to load. I "preload" a couple of take-up spools and then just drop them in as I go through film. Always keep one or two take-up spools as spares anyway. They can get lost - they are still available on E-Bay and occasionally in better stores as used or new.
I second Al on the button rewind version. It is a pain to rewind as with early one #926xxx to about #940xxx you have to hold the button down as you rewind. Later M2's with the button worked better as the button stayed down on its own (at least until it got worn and started to pop out!).
The button on my #938xxx stays down, but on the other hand it doesn't always pop out like it should when I have finished rewinding. Is there a trick or should I have it fixed?
I preferred the M2 without the self-timer; it seemed like the self-timer lever was always in the way a bit when gripping the camera, but I have big hands.
I liked the quick load kit once I got used to it. I found the trick was to pull out a bit more film (1/2"?) than indicated on the baseplate diagram. Then it worked like a champ. I quit daydreaming about paying DAG to install an M6 take up spool, put it that way. :D
photogdave
10-12-2008, 09:34
Get an M4. No button rewind or take up spool business to deal with! ;)
As Al says, the "rapid load" kit is not really so rapid. The lever rewind is to be preferred, but the button rewind is no real handicap. You must decide whether you want a self-timer. You can put yourself in the picture with it, and you can use it in place of a cable release.
Al Kaplan
10-12-2008, 10:27
If you want to be in the photo just shoot with a 15mm lens, no self-timer required! I do it all the time.
http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com/2008/10/finding-light-in-darkness.html
Nokton48
10-12-2008, 10:33
I'm with Kevin M on this one. The self timer seems to get in the way when I tried one out. My first M2 had the "hold-in" button, which I got used to, but could be a bit slow. My current M2 is 949XXX and the button stays in when you click. Much better, especially with the Wasserman Rewinder.
Like everybody says, hard to go wrong with -any- M2, just about any problem can be fixed-up.
mr_phillip
10-12-2008, 11:34
Some very sensible comments here already, but here's my tuppence anyways.
All M2 versions are wonderful things - it's Leica's best camera IMHO. Rather than worrying about finding one specific type, you'd be much better served concentrating on condition and price. Either find a cheap user and have it CLAd by someone who really knows what he's (or she's) doing, or pay a little more for a well-maintained example, and you'll have a camera that'll last a lifetime and make you smile inside every time you use it.
For what it's worth, personally I'm not too keen on the selftimer models purely because I think it spoils the ultra-clean lines of the camera, and the early hold-the-button-down-as-you-rewind versions are a minor pain. Neither would put me off if price and condition were right though.
Got to say I agree with those who find the quickload accessory more of a pain than a plus. I much prefer the security of the proper take-up spool and, like Tom, prefer to just carry film preloaded into spare spools (my M2 came with two and I picked up a third for pennies). If I REALLY felt the need to minimize my loading times I'd be more tempted to have an M4-type take-up 'tulip' fitted than go for the fiddly accessory quickload spool.
Erik van Straten
10-12-2008, 14:57
The only drawback of the M2 is that it's not black. A really fine camera is black.
Erik.
Paul C. Perkins, MD
10-12-2008, 20:46
Erik,
They're black M-2 bodies out there. I ran the numbers once just to see how rare mine was and came up with a figure of 2.82% . . . No - I've never seen another - but I know they're out there. Hell - get a chrome one and if you absolutely have to have it black - make it so.
My first experience with an M-series was a chrome M-2. THey're all good.
Paul
Erik van Straten
10-12-2008, 23:01
Paul,
Do you have a black one? Can you post a picture of it? I would like to know its serial number. Black M2's are very interesting and very beautiful. The worlds finest camera's.
Erik.
I pretty much agree with everyone else, but through reading and research rather than much experience - my M2 is the only one I have ever had (but it won't be the last).
When I was getting it I wasn't too bothered by the version (though it happens to fall within Tom's "good" range), or the cosmetic condition. All I was really interested in was how well it worked, and I got one for a good price that is cosmetically well worn but had just had a CLA. And it works like a dream - it will easily outlast me.
My main criteria when I get my next one (I really want to be able to carry two around with different lenses, or different films) will be that I want one that has had a reasonably recent CLA, or is cheap enough for me to pay for one if necessary. I'll want it to at least be described as functioning nicely, and to have a nice clear viewfinder. I'll also want a lever rewind - having to hold in a button sounds like a real pain. And I won't care whether or not it has a self-timer, because I never use them.
Paul C. Perkins, MD
10-13-2008, 11:03
Erik,
Here's a black M-2.
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3403464
S/N: 1031837
Got it the fall of 1970 - so I'm certain it isn't a repaint. . .
Paul
Erik van Straten
10-13-2008, 13:58
Paul,
Thanks a lot for showing your beauty. It's a fine piece. Did you know that black M2's with serial numbers in the 103XXXX group are very rare? Just let me know when you want to sell it...
Erik.
Paul C. Perkins, MD
10-13-2008, 16:06
Erik,
Yeah - I looked up some stats on it about two or three years ago - and began to understand why some collectors were salivating when the saw it during the late 1980's. . .
Beyond being a collectible it's also a beater. Whenever I shoot theatre or any low light subjects - out comes the "Master of Darkness." I'd sell one of my kidneys before I parted with mi compadre.
I would never be without an M-2.
Paul
richard_l
10-14-2008, 02:05
.....What I really want to know is which M2 is best as a user?
Are there stepped, clear cut stages in the variations of the M2? I.e, the addition of the self timer, rapid loading, button/lever rewind?.....My choice would be an M2 with lever rewind but without the self-timer or rapid loader. If you want a self-timer, there is an attachment which can do that. No point in having the clockwork incorporated into the camera body (unless you are a hopeless narcissist and use it all the time). For a non-jiggling shutter release, a cable release is far more convenient. The original film loading system is easy, foolproof, and fast (if you buy a few extra takeup spools). IMHO, the M2 is the greatest of the Leica rangefinders. Instinctively I reach for the M2 instead of my M3 or M6.
januaryman
10-14-2008, 09:18
Where would one get these take up spools? Just checked ebay and got nothing. Can I use the same as used in the FS cameras?
thomasw_
10-14-2008, 09:53
Early ones had a button rewind, later ones had a lever rewind. Doesn't matter. Contrast of the RF patch is most important.
With respect to Frank, I differ on this. The button rewind does matter to me, as it caused me to doubt the magic of the M2; it was one of those small things that became a big deal in my use. I have had both lever and button rewinding M2s: the button rewind can be accidently depressed; it can stick slightly; you need to use the film advance lever to unlock it: in short, the button rewind became a very annoying and problematic feature. I have a M2 without a Self Timer and with a lever rewind; it is a fantastic camera! Sometimes I think I like my M2 and M3 bodies better than my MP....they are THAT good!
Benjamin
10-14-2008, 10:21
Thank you all for your input.
What Thomasw mentioned is what I was worried about; niggling faults that can inhibit the function of otherwise useful objects.
I can't find one on my FM2.
I'm down-grading to a Leica. Incredible.
Benjamin
It's all in the mind. Some people can't get past bottom loading, for instance.
My recently acquired M2 is a 931***. Older'n dirt, I guess, but still younger'n me. Damn! Still, seems to work pretty well, button re-wind and all. I wish I worked as well. What FrankS says...
Sometimes I think I like my M2 and M3 bodies better than my MP....they are THAT good!
So, I'm not the only one. Like thomasw there are times when I think the M2 I just got is nicer than my MP.
The only issue I have with mine is it does not have the protective collar around the lens release button. Once I pulled the camera out of my bag sans noctilux, good thing it let go in the bag and on several other times as I continually check the lens and it clicks into place again.
telenous
10-14-2008, 22:26
Sometimes I think I like my M2 and M3 bodies better than my MP....they are THAT good!
So, I'm not the only one. Like thomasw there are times when I think the M2 I just got is nicer than my MP.
Right on the money. I 'd have sold my MP if it weren't for its newer, somewhat brighter rangefinder spot. I like the M2 so much, I 've got two of them (still a long way to go though to reach TomA's state of bliss ;)).
I personally like the S/T, it's handy for people like me who are not always mindful to carry a cable release. But I understand the niggles about it too, the positioning is a bit discomfiting and it gets triggered easily esp. when I pull the camera out of the bag.
Then again, what would we be gnawing and talking about if it weren't about that :p.
I have a non-TTL M6: is the M2 notably nicer in the fit'n'finish department? I keep reading about how much nicer the M2 and M3 are than the newer M's with the exception of the MP, but I have a hard time believing it. Exactly how is the M2 nicer than a run-of-the-mill M6 or M7? Concrete examples of differences in aesthetic, picture-taking, or ruggedness between the M2 and M6, anyone?
I have a non-TTL M6: is the M2 notably nicer in the fit'n'finish department? I keep reading about how much nicer the M2 and M3 are than the newer M's with the exception of the MP, but I have a hard time believing it. Exactly how is the M2 nicer than a run-of-the-mill M6 or M7? Concrete examples of differences in aesthetic, picture-taking, or ruggedness between the M2 and M6, anyone?
I have two Leica bodies - a non-TTL M6 and an M2, and most of the differences are really quite small - enormous to some dedicated Leica purists, but small to most of us ordinary mortals ;)
My M2 feels a bit more solid than my M6, but both really feel great - I'd say the M2 feels more robust.
The mechanics (film wind on, gears) feel smoother on the M2 (though "softer" might be a better word).
The knob rewind on the M2 is less convenient than the lever rewind on the M6, but I don't really mind it.
The film loading on the M2 is slower than the M6 (but in my experience, not by much).
The biggest difference to me is the viewfinders. My M2 viewfinder isn't prone to flare the way the M6 VF is, and I much prefer having just one VF frame at a time (with the M6 and its two frames at a time, I sometimes find myself using the wrong frame). Having said that, I like having the 28 frame on the M6 (but I have a good feel for the 28 fov and am happy using the full frame on the M2 for 28).
So, M2 or M6? I think one should have one of each :D
(But, and I don't really know how to explain why, I have a real attachment to the M2 that I don't have to the M6).
Al Kaplan
10-15-2008, 08:54
Thanks to a guy in Japan I should be getting my CV 21mm viewfinder today (he got my money order) and I can start using my 21/3.4 Super Angulon today on my M2 button rewind body instead of the VC 15 on the Bessa L. I hope that I can get used to carrying the weight and get used to the "telephoto" coverage of a 21. My Leitz finder had cracked glass up front and a few dents when I bought it cheap a several years ago so it's loss was no big deal. Thanks Maddoc.
There is not much difference between using a M2 and a M6/MP. They are both good, mechanical cameras. However, using the metered M's introduces a step that you dont have to contend with when using M2/M3/M4's. When you shoot with a metered M (or Bessa/Zeiss for tha matter) - the bright diodes in the finder will draw your eye away from the shot for a split instant. There is also a compulsion to get it "right" - ie the diodes glowing in the right sequence and meters are not "right" - they have an opinion and not necessarily the right one)..
As a rule I find that I get more "hits" with a M2 - less thinking and fiddling with aperture rings/shutter speed. The time lag is less and the "composition" as it is - is better. Now. admittedly "Sunny F16 rule" is not as precise as a built in meter - so more screw-ups exposure wise. I do standardize my films to bl/w 400 asa (Tri X mainly) and the film has a great latitude.
Best way of learning to use a M2 is probably a 20 pack of what ever film you intend to use, a handheld meter and shoot the whole thing in a couple of days. Initially you will meter for every shot, soon you will only use the meter when you are not 100% sure and after 10-15 rolls, you will realize that you haven't used the meter at all!!! Thats when it gets to be fun. Yes, there will be foul ups - but probably only by 1/2 stop to 1 stop and the film can probably handle that. No better learning tool than telling yourself that "OK, it is a long week end and I have 20 rolls to shoot" Tell the family that you dont want to deal with them, turn of the cell-phone and think about an area around were you live and "cover" it photographically. Preferably stick to one lens too and enjoy yourself.
januaryman
10-15-2008, 14:34
Great advice, and true. But once you start backsliding, you lose your own built-in light meter and need to check the real one.
Given the choice between 2 M2's, one with lever rewind and one with button rewind, I would choose the lever rewind model, all else being equal. I recently bought one that's a button rewind for a good price, and bought a second one that is still making its way to me, that has a self timer and lever rewind.
The bigest difference between an M2 and an M6 is the fact that an M6 has a built in meter and 2 sets of framelines showing all the time. I prefer a single frameline set at a time. I did not notice a difference in build quality feel between my old M6 now sold, and my new M2, but it could probably use a cla to get it smoother.
I was going to send some cameras to Y.Ye but now the Canadian $ has taken a tumble against the US $. Might need to find a Canadian tech. but someone cheaper than Kindermann.
mr_phillip
10-16-2008, 01:07
When you shoot with a metered M (or Bessa/Zeiss for tha matter) - the bright diodes in the finder will draw your eye away from the shot for a split instant. There is also a compulsion to get it "right" - ie the diodes glowing in the right sequence and meters are not "right"
I agree with this, but with one minor addition. One of the things I like best about the M6 Classic, as opposed to all other LED-metered RFs I've used, is that the finder has only two diodes. Somehow I find it easier to ignore the lights with this setup than I do when there's a third LED. Psychologically, when there's a circular LED in the middle it just nags at me that it needs to be lit. It's not a huge deal, but it's enough to slow me down from time to time.
As to build differences between the M2 and M6, well the former does feel a little more solid (but only very slightly) and the chrome finish is certainly nicer. Mine also feels fractionally smoother in use (although I had it serviced last year, while my M6 is now 13 years old and hasn't been in for a CLA once in that time). Both are great cameras though, and both stand out to me in the Leica range as particularly good buys on the used market.
Al Kaplan
10-16-2008, 03:06
I've never tried an M6. The meters in my CL and Bessa L seem accurate enough when I go into "substitute incident mode" reading off the palm of my hand and opening up a stop but I'm less likely to forget to open up if I just set the ISO at about half the speed.
Neither one comes close to the M2 for smoothness, silence, finder quality, etc., etc., etc., and the M2 and M3 do have nicer finishes.
Thanks for clearing up the M2/M6 differences for me. I'll have to pick up an M2 one of these days. BGN/users at KEH are affordable right now, though the selection seems slim.
ChrisLivsey
10-16-2008, 10:25
There is not much difference between using a M2 and a M6/MP. They are both good, mechanical cameras. However, using the metered M's introduces a step that you dont have to contend with when using M2/M3/M4's. When you shoot with a metered M (or Bessa/Zeiss for tha matter) - the bright diodes in the finder will draw your eye away from the shot for a split instant. There is also a compulsion to get it "right" - ie the diodes glowing in the right sequence and meters are not "right" - they have an opinion and not necessarily the right one)..
This is so true, but of course with the M6/MP the solution is to remove the battery :)
The "feel" of the M2 release has not been mentioned. Without the meter detent it is so smooth and accurate it is a highlight of the camera along with the pure single frames which make such a difference. I would, if funds permitted, specify in my fantasy MP the single frame lines option.
Mine is the sweet spot 967***range. The button stays in. I prefer no self timer, for me it spoils the feel of the camera in the hand. I pick up the M2 over my M6 (and my M8)
Benjamin
10-16-2008, 13:34
Best way of learning to use a M2 is probably a 20 pack of what ever film you intend to use, a handheld meter and shoot the whole thing in a couple of days. Initially you will meter for every shot, soon you will only use the meter when you are not 100% sure and after 10-15 rolls, you will realize that you haven't used the meter at all!!!
Dear Tom,
Thank you for your advice. I think that should work a 'treat'. What meter would you advice to stick a'top of the M2? An MR-4? Or should I just get a handy? I like the center weighted pattern of the FM2, if that helps.
Also do you make rewind levers, or do I need to use Vice Grips?
Benjamin
As for meters, you will soon stop using it and rely on your brain, so dont go overboard. Both Sekonic and Gossen make small, handy ones. The Gossen even tells you what th time is and what the temperature is in your pocket.
Both are good and pretty exact. Old style selenium meters are not as reliable, as the cells tend to age and the response is slow.
As for rewind lever - DO NOT use vise grips as you can excert to much torque. For film rewind "knob" extension, there are usually some of these on E-bay. I have M2's with them and without them. They are convinient, but not necessary.
Benjamin
10-16-2008, 14:49
Tom, the Vise Grip thing was just a joke, though they are arguably the most useful thing that I own. I don't especially want to spend hundred of pounds on a handheld meter, but there are still some situations that baffle me in terms of exposure, and I'd like to have confirmation every once in a while. Are there any good cds meters that still go?
Thanks for your help,
Benjamin
I don't use a meter with my Canon P. B&W negative film is cheap and forgiving and I just accept any gross errors as a lesson learned (hopefully). I don't trust that method with color film, though. Like Tom says, it's easy to be right with a little practice. I think you just need to be consistent and use the same film and development procedures for long enough to know exactly what to expect.
I use the meter in my M6 because it's a crutch I can't resist. It's so quick and so accurate.
Beemermark
10-16-2008, 19:01
Paul,
Thanks a lot for showing your beauty. It's a fine piece. Did you know that black M2's with serial numbers in the 103XXXX group are very rare? Just let me know when you want to sell it...
Erik.
There's TWO black M2's on eBay right now, different sellers, both claim to be original. The one is actually quite nice.
Beemermark
10-16-2008, 19:06
Ok, now there are three on eBay.
Best way of learning to use a M2 is probably a 20 pack of what ever film you intend to use, a handheld meter and shoot the whole thing in a couple of days. Initially you will meter for every shot, soon you will only use the meter when you are not 100% sure and after 10-15 rolls, you will realize that you haven't used the meter at all!!! Thats when it gets to be fun. Yes, there will be foul ups - but probably only by 1/2 stop to 1 stop and the film can probably handle that. No better learning tool than telling yourself that "OK, it is a long week end and I have 20 rolls to shoot" Tell the family that you dont want to deal with them, turn of the cell-phone and think about an area around were you live and "cover" it photographically. Preferably stick to one lens too and enjoy yourself.
I think that's an excellent idea.
I spent decades using SLRs with TTL metering, and though I knew quite a bit about how exposure works in theory, I never really gained any skills in evaluating exposures.
I first tried a hand-held meter when I got a couple of FSU cameras and a Leningrad 8 meter, and the first time I went out with that meter I thought it was a nightmare - metering every shot like that was much more time-consuming than with a TTL meter. And to make matters worse, the clouds wouldn't stay put while I was trying to meter and shoot, and the brightness would change between me metering and lifting the camera to my eye! (With a TTL meter I'd fiddle with the aperture until the very moment of the shot, or with AE metering I'd watch the camera's fiddling with the shutter speed).
But it wasn't very long before it struck me that I what I really needed to do was take a few meter readings (one with the sun out, one with it behind a cloud, etc), to find out what the range of exposures was, then once I knew there was three stops difference (or whatever it was), I could take a number of shots within that range without metering each individual one.
And now when I go out, like this morning, with my M2 and Gossen Digisix (it's 32 deg C here today ;) ), I find I don't really meter individual shots at all, I meter scenes, and instead of getting to know what the exposure is for each successive field of view through my VF, I'll get to know what the exposure values are for my surroundings. I'll check an incident reading, then a couple of reflective readings from highlights and shadows, and I'm set - unless the light changes dramatically, I can estimate the exposure from shot to shot within the range that I now know. So, quite often, I'll start with a new roll of film, do a bit of metering, and then shoot the whole film while walking around without getting the meter out again. And although I'm sure very few of my exposures are perfect (not that there is any such thing as an objectively perfect exposure, of course), I almost never get a duff shot - I get whole rolls of easily-scanned negatives.
Because of that experience, I'd personally recommend getting a hand-held meter rather than a camera-mounted one, for two reasons. Firstly, I think a camera-mounted one can be a bit of an intrusion the way TTL meters are - it's always there and you see it every shot, and so the temptation to meter every shot is greater. And secondly, you can do incident metering with a hand-held - and incident metering really made a big difference to the way my intuitive understanding of the exposure values around me has improved.
Nokton48
10-17-2008, 02:53
When I come across a scene that I really want to record, I make an exposure. Then I drop the speed one click, and take another. If it's really a great scene I'll drop the speed another click and take one more. Not bracketing per se, I'm simply giving myself a choice of negatives to print. Works for me.
When the light is fleeting and evasive (or low), I take out my M5. Love the spot meter in that thing. The perfect compliment to my M2, although I want another M2.
Tom A is right, of course. M2's are addictive!
whatsilenceknows
10-17-2008, 03:39
May I ask, is it possible to shoot accurately with M2 or M4 and 28mm lens, using whole viewfinder area, or is the external viewfinder needed?
Thanks.
ChrisLivsey
10-17-2008, 07:29
And now when I go out, like this morning, with my M2 and Gossen Digisix (it's 32 deg C here today ;) )
Not in Liverpool at the moment then :D
luketrash
10-17-2008, 07:47
less is more.
I was very happy that my M2 has no self timer. It's not in the way, and it's not there to break. Here's the THREE DOLLAR self timer I got on ebay. I bought it for use with my Bessa RxA cameras:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/118/268180121_82a08b9002.jpg
most important part of buying any old camera: Does it work right? If yes, purchase. :)
I pick up the M2 over my M6 (and my M8)
And that is the ultimate arbiter. ;)
Not in Liverpool at the moment then :D
Hehe, no :)
Erik van Straten
10-17-2008, 14:48
There's TWO black M2's on eBay right now, different sellers, both claim to be original. The one is actually quite nice.
I only saw this one, the 948XXX. The minimum price asked is $ 6.000. Earlier this year I bought shown 990XXX for EUR 2.300. Both are restored camera's, by Leitz, but restored. $ 6.000 is too expensive. It's easy to understand why there are quite a lot of restored black M2's. The original paint came loose all by itself, so Leitz, in the late sixties and early seventies, restored them for unsatisfied customers with their much improved M4 type black paint finish. I also do own an M3 of this type.
Erik.
I had a '58 M2 w/ button rewind, rapid load, lens collar and no self timer. It was hammered cosmetically but was easily the most reliable camera I'd ever had.
I'll second the vote that any well-working M2 is worthwhile.
In use, those lacking a self timer cramp my hand after long periods. It's a convenient handhold, but I've never used one beyond exercising the slow speeds.
Be very, very weary of anything in 'mint' condition. Especially on Ebay.
All my M's have been beat and ugly, with intact L seals, but have worked great.
Except one: a NIB 5 year old MP which was absolute trash and I am currently rebuilding.
M2's are where it's at. Definitely a tactile/reliability thing.
Tom, the Vise Grip thing was just a joke, though they are arguably the most useful thing that I own. I don't especially want to spend hundred of pounds on a handheld meter, but there are still some situations that baffle me in terms of exposure, and I'd like to have confirmation every once in a while. Are there any good cds meters that still go?
Thanks for your help,
Benjamin
Benjamin, with ViseGrips, you are preaching to someone already converted! I have no idea how many I have (probably more than M2's - and thats saying something). They are ground, filed or even drilled to perform certain duties in the manufacturing Rapidwinders and other stuff. When I sold my Old Norton Combat Commando I kept my "chain" Grip for removing water filters in the darkroom etc. If there ever was a universal tool - thats it.
David Hughes
10-19-2008, 05:01
Hi,
Digressing a little but I was searching on "quickload": I've no idea what one looks like and have never seen the instructions for one either but my M2 isn't as I expected inside.
Are there any pictures anywhere I could see? I've done several searches and got a lot of articles in favour of it and against it but still don't know what one looks like, nor what the M4 etc ones look like, which I assume could be fitted.
Thanks in advance.
Regards, David
ChrisLivsey
10-19-2008, 05:34
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https://www.leicashop.com/bilder/shop_mini/14692_49.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.leicashop.com/vintage/leica-accessories-various-accessories-c-1000_1012_101218.html%3Flanguage%3Djp%26sort%3D3a% 26page%3D1&h=33&w=50&sz=1&hl=en&start=8&usg=__vQXtpOY8cTwQNFm5bd4E-v0Tlhw=&tbnid=jKEBbFua2bMO5M:&tbnh=33&tbnw=50&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dleica%2B14260%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26s afe%3Doff%26sa%3DG
Look at 14260 code. This is the spool and the curious object on the LHS fits onto the base plate. I'd take a shot of mine but I'm 5 shots into 36 :mad:
You could post a shot of what you didn't expect to see.
Al Kaplan
10-19-2008, 06:27
Doing an M4 loading conversion would be MAJOR. The quick load kits were like $39 new, but a few years later a few of the big mail order houses were selling them out at $12.50. They were a bit fiddly to use. You had to push the leader down through a slot on the end of the spool. I can engage the leader in the clip of a standard spool by feel but I could never manage to get it in the quick load slot without looking, not easy in the dark. On the M3 you have to still pull the spool half way out to reset the frame counter. I soon went back to original spools and the quick loads and their original boxes got tucked away. As with most things Leica, eventualy the collectors discovered that Leitz had made quick load kits. Mine were cherry, and came with the original boxes! $$$$$$
Here's a pic of the quick load installed on the M2 I recently sold. It's not as easy as the M4/M6 style tulip, but it's not difficult to use with a little practice. I found the trick was to pull out a bit more leader on your film than the loading diagram indicates. It's a big improvement over pulling out the take up spool, IMO.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/2803503137_3ec4aeb244_o.jpg
I have two M2's, one of them with self timer lever and rewind botton. Can some of tell me what model that is?
David Hughes
10-20-2008, 02:55
Many thanks folks: I now know I have the quick load kit fitted; as in Kevin's photo. I much prefer the pre-war ones where all the work was done outside and then it just slipped into the body - most of the time.
Thanks again.
Regards, David
Thanks to a guy in Japan I should be getting my CV 21mm viewfinder today (he got my money order) and I can start using my 21/3.4 Super Angulon today on my M2 button rewind body instead of the VC 15 on the Bessa L. I hope that I can get used to carrying the weight and get used to the "telephoto" coverage of a 21. My Leitz finder had cracked glass up front and a few dents when I bought it cheap a several years ago so it's loss was no big deal. Thanks Maddoc.
Post some photos here !! :D
... now the increased noise level about the M2 in this forum made me thinking more and more ... I tried a couple of M3 but always ended selling them because 35mm lenses were a no-go. But the M2 ... :cool:
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