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View Full Version : Red-Scale Elmar 5cm vs FED 50. Which is which?

the_jim
10-09-2008, 16:23
So a few months back, I was looking for a Tessar type lens to use on my Zeiss Ikon, so I jumped on fedka.com and picked up a 50's era FED 50/3.5.

The front element looked like the surface of an ice-skating rink and the results were pretty mediocre, which surprised me because the Tessar on my Rolleiflex T and the Nikon 45mm f/2.8P are both phenomenal lenses.

One day, I was cruising ebay, and stumbled upon a red-scale Elmar in excellent condition so I couldn't resist. For the sake of my own curiosity I thought I would attempt a very basic, non-scientific lens test between the two lenses.

Here are the pictures. Both were shot wide-open around 5:00pm on my Zeiss Ikon. The film used was Tri-X developed in 76 1:1. The lighting conditions were changing quickly so there is a little discrepancy there.

So which is which? Fed 50/3.5 or red-scale Elmar 5cm?

a:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3279/2928076686_a42f55c31b_b.jpg

bhttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3072/2928080630_923cc89f97_b.jpg

P.S. Focus was on the nail sticking out at 45 degrees or so.
sweathog
10-09-2008, 16:25
Top one is the Elmar, that is my unscientific answer.
the_jim
10-09-2008, 16:28
Top one is the Elmar, that is my unscientific answer.

Perhaps. Or possibly not.
sweathog
10-09-2008, 16:31
Well, I stick with my hypothesis. I've got a fairly decent chance of being wrong.
helenhill
10-09-2008, 16:31
Just a BLIND Guess....:o
the first shot elmar

I have an old uncoated 1938 /Elmar 35/3.5
which renders soooo contrasty beautiful lights & darks
on my rd1
and an old 50 /1.5 jupiter i bought from Fedka /which is spot on crisp

my Favorite is the Elmar
though never tried a RED SCALE elmar

Cheers ! h
retnull
10-09-2008, 16:36
Top is Elmar ...(?)
the_jim
10-09-2008, 16:39
Top is Elmar ...(?)

Might be. Why do you think so?

The Elmar was almost $350 with shipping. The FED lens was a little over $50.
the_jim
10-09-2008, 18:03
Anyone else?
Solinar
10-09-2008, 20:36
The top one has better contrast and the gritty appearance of the Soviet Tessars. The bottom image is easier on the eyes and more Elmar-like in my opinion.
the_jim
10-09-2008, 21:16
The top one has better contrast and the gritty appearance of the Soviet Tessars. The bottom image is easier on the eyes and more Elmar-like in my opinion.

Cool, thanks for the guess.

Does one of these images look like it came from a lens that costs seven times as much as the other?
John Robertson
10-09-2008, 21:31
50mm Industar (Collapsible mount) 1/60 @ f4.
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l28/JohnRobertson/852180-Large.jpg
The Elmar Red Scale I had was no sharper!
Erik van Straten
10-09-2008, 23:51
The second picture is smoother and has better contrast, due to the better coating of the redscale.
BTW, what is the redscale's serial number? There are many converted lenses from the thirties around that look like redscale Elmars, but they are not.

Erik.
pvdhaar
10-10-2008, 01:07
Top one looks like what comes out of my FED50/3.5 (the one in my avatar)..
nzeeman
10-10-2008, 01:47
imho first is much better , and he said " the results were pretty mediocre" with fed. so judging from that elmar is first...
Avotius
10-10-2008, 02:20
I think the bottom pic is the elmar, I have a redscale elmar, seems kind of like what I might get from it but there sure is not much in it to choose from, btw I paid 90 dollars for my elmar....
besk
10-10-2008, 03:26
I prefer the bottom one - the out of focus areas are more pleasing. Hopefully it is from the Elmar because I own one.
the_jim
10-10-2008, 09:27
Ok...time for the reveal. (drum roll please)

The top photo is the Elmar. @Erik Van Straten: the serial number dates it as a '53.

To me, it is clear that the Elmar is better corrected than the Soviet lens. It also shows better overall tonality. The FED looks a little swirly and lower in contrast.

That being said, as many people liked the look of the FED, for $50 it is not an altogether bad lens. Its look could be useful in many situations.
the_jim
10-10-2008, 09:30
I think the bottom pic is the elmar, I have a redscale elmar, seems kind of like what I might get from it but there sure is not much in it to choose from, btw I paid 90 dollars for my elmar....

$90!!!

I imagined that there must be a an army of Chinese business men driving around in Maseratis and Bentleys, collecting vintage Leicas, driving up the used prices.

Guess not.

Lucky for you.
mabelsound
10-10-2008, 09:34
My Fed 50 gives me better results than your second pic, though...given that the Elmar is in "excellent" condition and the Fed is all scratched to hell, we should cut it a break.

I do like the first pic better. Bokeh is as good as the Fed, and there is more appealing contrast to me. But I've been curious about the difference between these lenses, and it's nice to see that both give good results!