Lens gurus: is this bulls**t?

[mabelsound]

A few weeks ago I sold a lens on eBay: the wonderful Pentax Super-Multi-Coated Takumar 50/1.4. It was as close to mint as you're going to find with a seventies optic, and I could find no marks at all on the glass. Today I got the following email from the buyer:

Hi, this lens has a small defect in the coating just by the number '9' in the serial number. It is full depth and will affect results as we suffer from very harsh light here, being near the South Pole. I would like to return it to you for credit.Well, whatever--I'm happy to refund the guy, as long as he doesn't expect a shipping refund. Indeed, I'm kind of glad this happened--I sold the lens because I have the M version, but in certain ways I prefer using this one on my DSLR, and will be happy to have it back. But this seems awfully fussy to me at best, and perhaps total BS at worst. A tiny flaw in the coating? On the front element? At the very edge? And this will affect the guy's photos because he lives close to the south pole?

Here's a photo of the lens from the auction. What do you think? (That is a dust speck under JAPAN, not a flaw!)

http://www.inverseroom.com/ebay/t2.jpg

[hans voralberg]

Beat me, I cant see anything at all. And where exactly is near the South Pole ? Antarctica ?

[KoNickon]

Just give him the refund and get your lens back. He's full of it, by the way (or ridiculously fussy). I'll bet when you look it over that you can't find what he's talking about.

[feenej]

That's really funny. Did he also say, "So a penguin walks into a bar..."

[mabelsound]

Just give him the refund and get your lens back. He's full of it, by the way (or ridiculously fussy). I'll bet when you look it over that you can't find what he's talking about.

Yeah, he'll get the refund, I'm not fussy about stuff like this. Even if I do see the flaw he means, I'll use the lens with pleasure. It's one of my favorites ever, in any format.

As for his location, he's about as close to the south pole as New York is to Los Angeles.

[monochromejrnl]

i can't see anything and although I'm not an optics expert, there is no way that any tiny coating imperfection at the edge of the front element would affect image quality in any discernable way...

i just picked up a 90/2'cron v2 that has a 4mm round chip at the edge of the rear element for cheap and the are absolutely no image quality issues with the lens...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3060/2841739402_d90e22d027.jpg

i also use a UGLY tessar on a rolleiflex (two or three 1cm + long scratches on the front element of the taking lens and a couple more on the rear element) and I can't see any issues with the image quality...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3271/2717444540_61e9480f78.jpg

above shot wide open at f3.5 with this lens - the scratches are deep and long and very very noticeable when I run my finger across the glass ...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2028/2409451086_aa4fb92dd1.jpg

[Petroleum V. Nasby]

When they have "buyer's remorse" or change their mind, they will make up any story to get their money back. A lot of them just want to "test drive" or play with the equipment.

There are a few really insane buyers who find something wrong with anything you send them, they must take out a microscope to inspect things.

You can't win with these people.

[majid]

Make sure the returned lens has the same serial number as the one that went out...

[MartinP]

And, obviously, makes sure he ships it trackable and fully insured. One wouldn't want it to mysteriously disappear en-route.... Not that your guy would be so evil, but someone, somewhere, one day might be.

[Santafecino]

Negative comment on eBay is a serious sanction; to avoid it it's best to do what the buyer wants. But that doesn't mean the customer had a real issue. You are just being considerate.

[pesphoto]

I would tell him to jump in a lake. I dont see any defect.
Let him provide the proof of his claim.

[Petroleum V. Nasby]

If the buyer paid with PayPal, he could do a "not as described" complaint and end up with both the lens AND the money, if he knows how to work the system.

"Go jump in the lake" not a good tactic. If he paid with a money order, cash or wire transfer, then tell him to dance for his money back.

[sepiareverb]

I didn;t know the Takumar came in M mount- or is it LTM like the 43/1.9?

[Frank1969]

I once had a Hasselblad CF 150mm lens with a chip the size of one square milimeter out of the frontlens, into the glass, a few mm's from the rim. Never had any effect on any photo's, slides, colour or b&w.

[oscroft]

I agree that a minor blemish (that you can't even see in a close-up photograph) close to the edge of a lens won't have any noticeable effect on the images - whether they're shot in New York, at the South Pole, or off the Shoulder of Orion.

And I think I'd also be quite pleased to be getting an SMC Takumar 50/1.4 back - it's a cracking lens.

[pesphoto]

At least ask the dude to try it out and see the results before sending a refund. A tiny nick, if there is one, wont harm a thing.

[mabelsound]

I don't "rent" equipment to people on eBay.

No returns, and I could care less about bad feedback. I have gotten back lenses that whet out like new with the box, returned without the box and an "oh I always throw away the box."

I do not accept charge cards or paypal, only US postal money orders. If they don't like the US Post Office, screw 'em. I am more than willing to let anyone have a friend drop by my home and look at the lens before they bid.

And most of all I do not ship to the south pole.

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from, but I probably wouldn't buy anything from you. I try to be a flexible seller and usually buy from flexible sellers, so when things go wrong, as they always do, at least one party will be willing to bend a little. This dude's clearly something of a freak, but I would rather let him return the lens than get into some big overblown internet war that nobody can win. PayPal is fast and convenient and I've never minded eating the fee--I just consider it a kind of tithe for how much easier it usually makes my life.

There's no point in getting angry at this guy...it's a lost cause. And I'll happily welcome my Super Tak home.

I didn;t know the Takumar came in M mount- or is it LTM like the 43/1.9?

All of the various Pentax 50/1.4's are roughly the same lens. There is one version with an extra element, I think, but the formulation is still largely the same. I believe the SMC ones are supposed to be a little sharper than the M, A, and FA, but it doesn't much matter to me. I can't discern much difference between this one and my M. I like the feel of the M42 better though, even with stop-down metering.

I will keep the M for my ME Super and use this one for the DSLR.

[mabelsound]

I didn;t know the Takumar came in M mount- or is it LTM like the 43/1.9?

Oh I see what you mean! You thought I meant Lecia M. No, it's a Pentax-M, with a Pentax mount. I wish it was in Leica M-mount, I would LOVE to get to use this lens with my RF gear!

[shadowfox]

The reason I can sell is that I sell only "collectible" cameras and lenses therefore function is never an issue, and I sell stuff that is VERY hard to find.

Well, most of us are not as well-connected or lucky as you are, Fred :rolleyes:

But, I agree with y'all, if I encountered one of these goobers who seem to nit-pick stuff to death just for sports, it's best to just go the return-refund way. There are more reasonable buyers out there, thankfully.

[mabelsound]

I also agree it would be wonderful to buy and sell stuff in person. I missed the golden age of the photo shows...who knows, maybe someday they'll return.

[spyder2000]

The customer always "thinks" he's right. As you plan to do, accept the return and refund his money less shipping.

Then sell it to me.

[pesphoto]

The photo shows were serious fun. But it was not the buying and selling, it was the walking around and talking to all the other "dealers." It was a live version of the RFF.

Think of being able to look at literally every camera or lens made in the last 100 years! There is almost nothing that has not been for sale. Now of course I do not claim to have looked at them all.:D But I have seen literally thousands of rare cameras, all the Alpas, Exactas, Leicas, ever made have at least passed before my eyes, many were in my hands.

Wonderful times, and great friends.

Sounds fun, where have they gone too and why?
Someone should organize a RFF camera show and we all could go.......

[Petroleum V. Nasby]

Amen.

Nothing like seeing the stuff in the flesh. And eyeball to eyeball is the best way to make a deal, in my opinion. Cash on the barrelhead.

The internet giveth and the internet taketh away.


The photo shows were serious fun. But it was not the buying and selling, it was the walking around and talking to all the other "dealers." It was a live version of the RFF.

Think of being able to look at literally every camera or lens made in the last 100 years! There is almost nothing that has not been for sale. Now of course I do not claim to have looked at them all.:D But I have seen literally thousands of rare cameras, all the Alpas, Exactas, Leicas, ever made have at least passed before my eyes, many were in my hands.

Wonderful times, and great friends.

[Keith]

I think you did the right thing ... there's plenty of nit pickers like him out there and as annoying as they are it's better to humour them and keep your healthy eBay feedback rating intact. As long as he understands that the cost of returning the lens is his responsibility it's just more of an inconvenience than a real problem. Pretty lame excuse though ... South Pole indeed! :p

[caperunner]

So that thing under the serial number is not a blemish but a reflection? Similar to the other 5 I see there?

Would any one shoot an unfiltered lens in a high glare region? ND filters come to mind here. I would ask him to show you some output from this "faulty" lens in his glare conditions first before I would consider a refund. i.e. prove that it has a problem. Would it have been tampered with also?
Me?
No refund - negative feedback so what?

[Trius]

I would tell him to jump in a lake. I dont see any defect.
Let him provide the proof of his claim.

At that point he'd probably "create" a serious defect before returning the lens, raise holy hell with eBay, etc., etc. The guy has already pretty much proven himself a jerk; why play his game and join his ranks?

[P. Lynn Miller]

I am close to the South Pole and I would love to have a 50mm f1.4 that nice for my lonely Spotmatic. I was given a ES body by a friend, but have no lenses it for it. Being a long time Nikon/Nikkor user, I was duly impressed the little Pentax and would love to use but do not have any lenses. I must take the time and money to get at least a decent normal lenses soon. But I was thinking of the 85/1.8...

[jan normandale]

The photo shows were serious fun. But it was not the buying and selling, it was the walking around and talking to all the other "dealers." It was a live version of the RFF.

Think of being able to look at literally every camera or lens made in the last 100 years! There is almost nothing that has not been for sale. Now of course I do not claim to have looked at them all.:D But I have seen literally thousands of rare cameras, all the Alpas, Exactas, Leicas, ever made have at least passed before my eyes, many were in my hands.

Wonderful times, and great friends.

OT @ Fred, come up to Toronto, there's one semi annually. Check the Toronto threads it'll usually show in one of them. The big one is in the spring and usually has people from the US as well as Canada. Usually 50 - 100 dealers at these. Some vendors are really collectors and don't sell much others are in serious sell mode. Room for all styles and levels of interest. Here's a link to Toronto and another to US shows

Photographica / Toronto (http://www.phsc.ca/fairs.html)
US based camera shows (http://www.historiccamera.com/newsletter/newsletter_q2_05.html)

[Carlsen Highway]

For what its worth I live as close as you can get to antarctica without sleeping on ice, and have also travelled north through the pacific islands to the tropics on ships for a job.....and hes right in one way, the light is 'harder' down here, brighter, sharper whatever you to call it. Seems to get softer as you go north.
(You can wander round in the tropics all day and not get sunburnt it seems but down here it takes 15 minutes.)

As to whether it will make any difference with that 'flaw' on the lens?
I seriously doubt it.

[mabelsound]

Update, if you want it! I got back the lens the other day. There is no flaw in the coating whatsoever--I have no idea what the dude was talking about. There was a little fleck of something, some kind of fiber, which came off with a microfiber cloth and a bit of cleaning solution...maybe that was it.

What's more, I refunded the guy immediately via PayPal, and there is a wait of a couple of days as the money is transferred from my bank account. So the transaction is marked "pending." And the guy wrote to me and asked if, in fact, I was broke due to the current US economic crisis, and was this "pending" transaction just a way of biding my time as I scraped the money together. AWESOME. :D

[hans voralberg]

Sounds like you've traded with a very skeptical and mildly paranoid dude

[charjohncarter]

All I can say is; is there a way to bar certain buyers from bidding on your stuff on Ebay? I don't sell on Ebay, but if you could, like, maybe, give us the first four or five letters in his user name? This, of course, is just out of interest.

[mabelsound]

Sounds like you've traded with a very skeptical and mildly paranoid dude

:D to say the least

The refund went through...that should be the end, I hope...

[jan normandale]

I'll bet he writes you again.

[Rick Waldroup]

This is the type of lunacy ebay has launched with the no negative feedback policy for buyers. Every fruitcake and nutjob in the world now has free reign to do whatever they like with no consequences for their actions.

[mabelsound]

I'll bet he writes you again.

He'll send me his therapist's bill.

[ampguy]

John,

Want to trade that lens for some studio gear? ;)