View Full Version : How many shots per roll are you happy with?
totifoto
09-02-2008, 14:15
If you shoot a 36 frame roll how many frames do you have to get from that roll to be happy?
If I get one that is perfect I´m happy but I wanna get at least 5 good frame from a roll.
When I shoot 6X6 I wanna get at least 3.
Blimey, if I got one in ten rolls that is "perfect" I'd be ecstatic! TBH I don't think I've ever taken a perfect photo, but I think I know what you mean ;-)
Anything above a couple of 'keeper' shots out of a 36 exp film I would regard as a good return.
Cheers.
I'm happy if I get at least one photo that I like well enough to have printed. I usually have about 5 that I will upload to my flickr account that are okay.
Bob Michaels
09-02-2008, 14:35
I always average a bit under one "winner" per roll. No matter if it is a 36 exposure roll of 35mm or 10 exposure roll of 120.
If my average got higher than that, I would begin to wonder if I am editing tight enough.
It is Zero for most rolls :) it is possible to keep up continuing to shoot more rolls. Is it not what we are doing?
Ron (Netherlands)
09-02-2008, 15:46
at least one excellent, if not it is considered pure a test roll (to be forgotten soon)
charjohncarter
09-02-2008, 15:46
I need 3 but if I get even 1 that is a triple A winner I would be happy. The problem is the 1 winner I get is usually not the one I thought it would be, which means I get zero intentional winners.
mabelsound
09-02-2008, 15:50
5 that I don't want to delete immediately, that's a good roll.
I had a roll once with like ten that I actually LIKED. That was an awesome day!
rogue_designer
09-02-2008, 16:06
I want more the 50% to be ok technically (focus, exposure).
Beyond that there are too many variables. I get alot more "misses" (composition/timing wise) with street since I can't control much. I'd say I want to get 3-5 street shots that I'd be happy with scanning to and showing others, per roll.
If I'm shooting landscape, or architecture (or anything more formal) I end up with a MUCH higher percentage of usable shots.
Likewise, if I'm shooting 120 or large format, the percentage goes way up, since I pre-edit alot of shots before they're taken.
Winners are another matter altogether. But I know for a fact that I have an absurd number of negatives in various formats filed away (from the last 15 years of shooting, pro and personal), and my active portfolio is fewer than 25 images. So - the math is against me. :)
It makes me happy if I've got the exposure correct on at at least half of the shots in a roll and often I'll get a roll where ninety percent of the exposures are good. The fact that maybe there's nothing there that pleases me artistically doesn't bother me too much at this stage because IMO those type of shots are a little rare at the best of times. Knowing that I have exposure sorted is far more important than producing stunners because when the good shots leap out at me after scanning (not often enough) ... control of exposure is a real bonus and to me a poor exposure will kill a potentially good pic more often than a small focussing error.
infrequent
09-02-2008, 17:02
I had a roll once with like ten that I actually LIKED. That was an awesome day!
i know that feeling!
pesphoto
09-02-2008, 17:50
I have low standards so I would say up to 75%
It depends on what I'm shooting. If its street, maybe one shot out of every ten or 15 rolls that I would show other people. Portraits and other stuff is much higher.
actaully, I only shoot 24ex rolls... and for that, about 3 really good shoots seems to be plenty... so I voted 5 for a 36ex... people really like shooting 36 ex rolls?
I expect to get half or more that are properly exposed/focused but am happy if 3 are keepers..
mmm.. interesting, it seems that exposure issues are a concern to quite a few of you, to me not so much, in fact as long as Im within two stops and focus is reasonably accurate, blur, grain, exposure just doesn't seem to bother me at all. Im very critical however of what is in those frames. Technically, everything is achievable, aesthetically- well thats a different matter... its much more critical, to me, to have an image that speaks, and if it speaks, then the language of technology is no barrier.
I dont know if this makes any sense to anyone other than me, but Im trying to convey a psychology that weighs toward the art and less the tech... Thats why i went back to film, because the cameras are implicitly simplicity!
My problem is that I knew it was going to be crap before tripping the shutter.
dazedgonebye
09-02-2008, 20:16
It only takes 1 that I'd like to print to make me happy really.
On the other hand, if I don't come away with 4 or 5 that are good enough to share, I feel I haven't made the best of the situation.
It's not about wasting film so much as wasting the opportunity.
Benjamin Marks
09-02-2008, 20:21
3 keepers on a roll of 36 exposures, or slightly fewer than 1 in 10. It's late though and one reasons in this mental state at one's own peril, but it seems to me that when you read the results above that everyone who says, say "3" also has 2 and 1 shots per roll that are keepers . . .
Ben Marks
It's interesting to venture into large format where each exposure takes a little time and involves a certain routine (not good for street photography I realise) ... it makes 35mm film seem like digital does when you shoot 35mm film!
4 or 5 keepers in a 36 roll on average that I'd upload to my flickr. It'd be great to have 1 winner per roll, but it's more like 1 in every 3 rolls for me at this point.
projectbluebird
09-02-2008, 21:32
people really like shooting 36 ex rolls?
Actually, I feel cheated if I get less than 38. For some reason when I shoot commercial 36-exp rolls with my M3, I always get a few extra. typically 38, but sometimes 39, and once 41!
As for keepers per roll, 2-3 seems to be my average. That's good enough for me.
I prefer 24-exp rolls to 36, but when I rolled my own I made 'em 30-exp. As to "keepers" per roll, I don't count, but I'm happy with whatever good ones appear, and the occasional one that is really satisfying. For some reason, though, what I think is really satisfying is often not admired by others... :(
Film was scarce in India, and expensive, when I started out. We were told, in effect, "Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes."
five or six are looking good after developing and scanning. But mostly just one or two keeper in the end.
Sometimes I am not carefull so something went wrong or if I test a new lens and don t like the results.
So I am happy with one or two to keep and look at quite after some time.
sem
My standards have risen through the years. I'm happy with 1-2 per roll.
My standards have risen through the years. I'm happy with 1-2 per roll.
Funny I have the exact opposite problem. The more I learn the more self critical I become.
ARCHIVIST
09-03-2008, 13:17
At least 6 good (+) images per roll for the task at hand.
After 35 years behind the camera I should perhaps expect more.
Regards
Peter
Steve Bellayr
09-03-2008, 13:44
There is a big difference between perfect and keeper. I don't know what is meant by perfect but I get a good many keepers.
MaxElmar
09-03-2008, 16:23
Most of my shots are OK technically, but if I get 3-4 photos I really like to look at on a roll - OK then. Funny thing is, this 3-4 holds for 120 - which is a pretty high pecentage. Then 4 x 5 - well I like about every other one, almost 50%. My 5 x 7 - well it's like magic, I just love most of the shots!
Yes, it's magic - the magic of self-editing and pre-visualization. I need more of that in my 35mm and digital work....
Chris L.
Quote:"There is a big difference between perfect and keeper. I don't know what is meant by perfect but I get a good many keepers."
I guess there is a big difference between keeper and keeper, depending on who you are asking.
Perfect? Can a photograph be perfect? That would be a good thread of its own...Show me a perfect photograph (yours, or that of another).
Cheers,
Gary
It depends on what I'm shooting. If I'm just shooting for pure pleasure, if I get one great one per roll, I'm very happy, if I get two, I'm tickled pink.
If I do some special project though, like a walk-through of a neighborhood for a photo blog, I expect to get more ready-for-prime-time shots.
dacaccia
09-05-2008, 11:06
how could one tell? this is soo much different from session to session ... depends on how I feel, how the situations are, what I am able to see today. There are films with 10-15 shots I like - and films with no shot or 1 shot. There are films which contain a "great shot", and those which contain only mediocre ones.
Cheers, dacaccia
cosmonot
09-05-2008, 14:28
With my manual 35mm cameras, I am happy if most of the frames are evenly exposed and I didn't forget to take the lens cap off. As long as each roll is slightly better than the previous I'm pretty happy... But at this point film and processing is cheap so I don't have any problems with shooting a lot.
le vrai rdu
09-05-2008, 14:32
6 picture out of 36 with 35 mm
4 out of 12 with medium format :)
it depends on the event or lack thereof, for me.
An Italian auto show I attended recently resulted in almost all hits, meaning I captured on film pretty much exactly what I envisioned.
A music/art/photography outdoor event I attended last summer resulted in a couple halfway decent shots out of ~48 shots/two rolls.
A Bastille Day street festival last summer yielded a complete roll of personal accomplishments :)
A trip to the corner coffee shop or local bar generally yields a shot or two per day/(1/2 roll), but that's the place I go to experiment with hip shots, timer shots, over- & under-exposure, etc.
A once-in-a-lifetime trip to NYC, Europe, etc. yields very few wasted film out of perhaps three rolls/72 frames.
I think alot depends on how I feel about the scene. If it's nothing special really, I am finding the limits of what works and what I can and cannot do. If it is something I am excited about and have limited film, I make every shot count, using all I learned from the coffee shop experiments and bar shots.
There's times I am experimenting and times I am playing for real. I experiment so I can get the shot when it counts. I guess I don't really consider "keeper ratios" in the sense most of you seem to.
On a trip last year, I used approx 25 rolls (36 exposures each) and thought that about 25 shots were decent. So the math indicates about 3% hit rate. I'm happy with that.
I used to think if I didn't get at least 10 on a 36 roll that I really liked that I wasn't doing well. This was quite detrimental to my hobby and it became more like work... and work that I was failing at. I ended up having a hiatus for a couple of months and ever since I came back to it I have a totally different mind set.
I voted 1 because its nice to that 1 good one from a roll that you can pin up. But my feeling is that if I ENJOYED shooting the roll then it was a success, even if there are no good photos.
I enjoy photography alot more now :)
J. Borger
09-07-2008, 15:16
My WOW pictures from 5 years ago are throw-aways today.
Ansel Adams was satisfied with one realy good picture a year.
Winogrand shot several 100.000 frames while the iconic pictures we know from all those years of hard labour is probably less than 0.001% he shot.
How many Kertesz pictures do we know about 200-300 -400 ....... from 50 years photography!
Yes when asked to shoot a wedding or some portraits of friends with a fixed goal i would want at least 6 good frames from a role. But no way near that for personal work that realy counts. I think for that kind of work 1 out of 35 is far to ambitious.
FifthLeaf
09-07-2008, 16:30
I think a better question is "how many rolls per keeper?"
I haven't been photographing terribly long and have only shot a couple hundred rolls of film, but I have yet to have one I'm truly satisfied with yet.
I just don't think about it. Sometimes I have an entire roll of 'good shots', but none of them quite bring me to the enlarger because one gem on another roll somehow renders them pale in comparison. Sometimes, shots are good but variations on something done before and whilst technically good and aesthetically fine, they once again don't make it.
It all depends on what you are doing it for and your personal standards/goals. I really don't think it is productive to think about and I would go so far as to say I think it is counterproductive. The last roll of 120 (6x7) I shot had 3-4 printers on it. The previous 5 rolls had none and the 10 before that I still can't decide, but there are a few that I am sure will end up being printed. It is not always a fixed thing. When I am finally done here in Afghanistan I will undoubtedly explore negs I dismissed and find some good shots, equally there will be those that I go off. I will not be counting the number of rolls shot and am content to shoot as much as I can simply to further my vision and other skills (such as kit packing, interpersonal skills, technical fluidity with kit etc). Rolls of film are rarely wasted if you are trying to achieve something. I have many rolls of rubbish that helped me work thru something or allowed me to see that my way of seeing a particular subject was not 'working'. Keep shooting and do not worry about the number of keepers - the better I get, the more discerning I am with what I print, so I am discarding shots I would have printed with glee 5 years ago. Nothing is taken away from a great print on the wall when one remembers the twenty rolls before it that produced plenty of nice but ultimately forgettable images.
When I have a number of rolls that don't inspire me, it makes the urge to go out and stretch my legs all the more powerful. It can be a good thing. Every day is different as is every location. This place is a pain in the ***** to photograph in and I find it very tough indeed and so I have more useless rolls than ever before, but I am equally sure that it is helping me to improve what I do.
Papa Smurf
09-27-2008, 09:58
I voted for 3 because I read a long time ago that the Pro's were happy with 5 to 10 % keepers, but in reality I seldom get any that I really like. As some of the others have stated, technically, focus and exposure are my biggest issues and, well just forget composition, perspective, and timing.
Artistically, I am happy if I get one that others ooh and aah about. Mostly, the image that ends up on the negative is not the image that my mind saw the moment the shutter tripped! Is it possible to have dyslexic vision? :confused:
And fwiw, I prefer 24 exposure rolls, although at an event where I know that I will be shooting a lot, 36 Exp rolls mean fewer film changes.
Keep at it!
>>I haven't been photographing terribly long and have only shot a couple hundred rolls of film, but I have yet to have one I'm truly satisfied with yet.
Al Kaplan
09-28-2008, 08:08
I guess that I average between two and maybe six per roll. It depends on the subject matter, the lighting, and most of all my mood, how involved I'm feeling with what I'm photographing. Sometimes everything falls into place, and I FEEL it while it's happening!
Lately I've been going through my boxes of old negatives and contact sheets. I've had requests to come up with some "historical" photos of people and events here in North Miami going back to the 1960's, and another project involves my Seminole and Miccosukee Indian photos from the 1970's. Looking at the contact sheets from thirty and forty-plus years ago seems to reveal about the same percentage of good shots per roll as I get today. I can't even say that my style has changed very much. I still prefer shooting in B&W with Leica rangefinder cameras, 35mm is my standard focal length, and I love the effect of ultra-wide angle lenses ~ my 19mm Canon was the widest made in the late 1960's and I jumped on the 15mm Voigtlander Heliar when it first hit the market.
I think that if we just go with the flow, and don't try to immitate someone else's style, the percentage of good shots goes up. I've tried to shoot like H.C.B. and make prints like Gene Smith and Jerry Uelsmann, but I really don't "see" the way they do. I don't have their vision, their way of looking at the world. I can come up with a pretty good imitation but it becomes more work than pleasure and the prints never seem to have the "spark" that makes for a great photograph.
Jason808
10-07-2008, 13:10
mmm.. interesting, it seems that exposure issues are a concern to quite a few of you, to me not so much, in fact as long as Im within two stops and focus is reasonably accurate, blur, grain, exposure just doesn't seem to bother me at all. Im very critical however of what is in those frames. Technically, everything is achievable, aesthetically- well thats a different matter... its much more critical, to me, to have an image that speaks, and if it speaks, then the language of technology is no barrier.
I dont know if this makes any sense to anyone other than me, but Im trying to convey a psychology that weighs toward the art and less the tech... Thats why i went back to film, because the cameras are implicitly simplicity!
To a point - and I agree that the content should be most important.
But, I'll speak for only myself: I think getting the "technicals" right should be a subconscious process, thus allowing me to concentrate on the subject matter. I also think that in some cases, it's important to get the technical issues right in order to create the image I want to create, in the way I intended. There are certainly places where technical deficiencies can be overcome by the content, but if I fail to communicate because I was too lax in making sure the exposure/focus was right, then I've failed entirely.
I understand this argument could be spun in the reverse, but that's why I want to always strive to make the basics a natural movement so my brain can focus completely on what's in the frame, and I don't have to have faith in the "fudge factor" of the medium. I see things like focus, exposure, etc. as fundamentals, like dribbling and passing the ball.
I hope I don't come off as dismissive of your ideas - that's not my intent. I think you have correctly pointed out that the thought process goes too far into the mechanics sometimes. Indeed, there are times when I get upset about letting the technical invade my thought process.
As for the question: whether film or digital, I want to be "on" (focus, exp, framing) 75% of the time, and 25% were "keepers" I'd be happy. If one or two were "portfolio worthy", then all the better, but having that great pic doesn't make the difference between a good shoot and bad one to me.
BillBingham2
10-07-2008, 14:49
For me, anything less than 4 keepers (shots that I'm willing to show other people) is a bad roll. Great shots come along a lot less often, perhaps once every two or three rolls. I find I shoot a bit more with digital as I do not yet have the same control over my camera as I do with my film bodies. I usually shoot only one shot of a scene in film, where are about 10% of the time I shot two or three shots. Mostly because of questions I have over exposure (including flash).
B2 (;->
Leigh Youdale
10-20-2008, 19:36
I work on a 10% basis. If 10% are judged worth printing up to (say) 10x8 then I'm content. More, and I'm happy. Less and I have to try harder.
I tend to shoot all the time - averaging 2 rolls a day. Once processed, i make an effort to find 5 shots/roll for scanning - maybe not because they are that good, but looking at them on the screen teaches me something.
It also depends on what I am doing, just a walk to the cafe or magazine store probably only would result in 1 shot worth looking twice at - but a conscious "expedition" would result in a better "keeper" rate.
There is "state of mind" that you occasionally get into - images pop up everywhere and you just shoot away and 1 or 2 rolls can result in 10-15 shots worth a darkroom session. I also use the camera as a notebook - buildings and places that I want to remember for some reason, and occasionally people, though i am not a portrait shooter.
I also find that you have to take pictures all the time - not necessarily with a camera, but in your mind to keep up the "flow"
We lived in Paris for a year in 1982/83 - the whole idea was to do only what we enjoyed (it was after several years of corporate work and a bit of a "burn out"). Tuulikki studied french 8-10 hours a day and I set out every morning with a couple of M's (usually 35f2 and 21/3,4) and wandered around rather aimlessly for a similar time. Maybe 1-2 rolls a day/average. Some days there were 30-40 shots that were interesting, other days none! Back home to our small studio apartment and process the films in D-76 in the bathtub. After having edited down the films quite "hard" - I ended up with about 150 rolls of TriX and all in all about 200 shots that I feel hold up, even 25 years later.
It was an immens feeling of luxury to a/have the time and b/ make the decision to do this and c/it firmly got me set to stop shooting industrial/commercial stuff and just shoot bl/w and 35. Had to come up something else to do, invented the Rapidwinder and as each winder that goes out is tested with at least one or two rolls - I keep shooting and the rate is still 4-5 shots per roll that might be interesting to me and maybe 1-2 that other people like!
LeicaTom
10-22-2008, 20:41
I honesty try to keep about 8 to 12 on each roll, sometimes more.......my kill ratio is about 65/70% I really can`t afford to lose shots doing what I do, 90% of the time it`s the models fault or my assistant missed something going on if there`s a messed up shot.....
Also when I use LTM`s I have to allow for mechanical failure, once I had a IIIC K that was sometime`s capping, sometime`s not and I still have about 6 cameras that need to go to repairs :(
I`m currently using a M6, two 45' IIIC K`s and a 1970`s Canon F-1 for all my film work. (I need a M3 or another M6 to take up the slack) I also thow in the Canon IIF2 which is a really great camera to work with as well and for those who know me, I work mainly with fast 50`s so focusing is an issue sometimes, depending on how fast we are getting something done etc.
The worst thing really is proofing shot work, I try to do it together with all my gals, right after a shoot, that way they pick at least 5 pics per look and I pick 5 pics per look and somewhere inbetween there`s where I get the finished product and the number we use in the meanwhile it`s just very time consuming - (that`s the part I hate the most) :(
Tom
srichmond
10-28-2008, 04:11
For me it depends on the subject. Some situations you are in mean that there are very rich opportunities presented, so your expectation of a good hit rate are high. Other times, I'd be happy with just one good shot per roll.
Pherdinand
10-28-2008, 05:04
six plus, but then, i am never happy with myself.
When I started taking pictures, 50% were keepers.
But as I grew into photography this number went down.
Currently, I'm happy with 3-4 nice frames in a roll.
I'm sure that as time passes, this number will continue to drop.
(I hope so :rolleyes:)
It is a simple equation:
The more pictures you take, the better you know what good pictures are.
The better you know what good pictures are, less pictures are considered by your self as "good ones", hence - less "keepers" on your rolls.
Add to this the fact that you want to keep on improving your photography and you get "progress".
I'm in progress, at the moment.
I guess one or two good shots per roll is what I reasonably expect, although many times all 36 slides are digitally manipulated between my left index and middle fingers with a deft flick of the wrist into the blue Recycling Bin I keep beside the projector.
And I agree that as one gains experience, expertise, and become more discerning, the fewer images are considered to be worth keeping. That has been my experience over the thirty years I've been shooting.
Well for me the activity of scanning, post-processing & hand spotting (which is the killer) makes me think twice about whether or not I want to keep it. Typically I'd maintain 25% - 50% per roll these days...
Ansel Adams was satisfied with one realy good picture a year.
Winogrand shot several 100.000 frames while the iconic pictures we know from all those years of hard labour is probably less than 0.001% he shot.
How many Kertesz pictures do we know about 200-300 -400 ....... from 50 years photography!
If you really think about it, this sort of success rate suggests you arent a photographer, your just playing statistics. Shoot enough and eventually something great will turn up :D
All artists are not Jan Vermeer!
Nor would I want them to be. I think we had just exactly the right number of Jan Vermeers. And most other great artists I can think of as well.
when i'm shooting for myself, I usually expect one or two photos that I really like, and five or six that I am happy to upload to flickr. when i'm doing weddings, I expect 20 to 25 shots per roll that I can give to the b&g.
happy? 37 keepers from 36exp roll :)
one (or couple at best) keepers from roll make me believing I can continue with my hobby. It happens often that whole roll is trash.
I've heard that good metric is 1 keeper per meter of film. So from 36exp roll good photographer has to have about 3 keepers.
Then we have to define keeper. Not ashamed to post online or to take at exhibition?
Lilserenity
05-18-2009, 00:12
Generally I work on the basis of 1/3rd of the roll of good/acceptable frames is thumbs up, but from that I do like to have about 5 or 6 real goodies.
Especially at the moment as I am shooting for a book.
If I was shooting for just any old thing (which is usually what I do!) I'm not hard on myself.
wgerrard
08-14-2009, 06:22
I also find that you have to take pictures all the time - not necessarily with a camera, but in your mind to keep up the "flow"
I'm glad you said that. I don't make a practice of always carrying a camera, but I do try to frame possible images as I go, even if I'm treading back and forth on familiar ground.
To the question: I'm happy with 2-3 I'm willing to show others. I'm annoyed when I botch focus or exposure, and I'm really annoyed when a shot I worked hard at and that I thought would be a winner turns out to be a flop.
arseniii
08-14-2009, 18:07
If you mean satisfied in terms of technically right and with good composition I would say I get 2-3 per roll. If we are talking about pictures I would print and/or put it on a web-site then it would be ONE for about 5-6 rolls. I am trying to be more "efficient" with a slide film, but in this case my pictures come out to be still and lifeless. It's all about luck anyway, sometimes you're lucky to get 2 exceptional pictures on one roll, and sometimes the whole roll goes to a garbage bin.
Interesting thread, btw! I always wanted to know how other folks do...
It can take me weeks to go through a roll of film (36) as I'm very selective and slow in my shooting, so I hope I get about 10 keeps in a roll of 36. However, If I get one really outstanding shot per roll, I'd consider myself lucky. There's a big difference between Keeper vs. Great. And, technically right my percentage is very high, but that doesn't make it a keeper or great.
david.elliott
09-07-2009, 11:51
Generally, I keep about 1/3 to 2/3 of a roll, with 2-4 standout frames that I am really happy with.
Overall though, I get many many more keepers with film than I did with digital. And my best film shots are, to me, leaps and bounds better than my best digital shots ever were.
Not sure if this has been asked before but any ideas why the majority of people either choose 1 or 6+?
not_in_good_order
11-01-2009, 05:39
any more than 2 or 3 I consider a bit of a bonus.
Juan Valdenebro
11-01-2009, 07:48
Couldn't vote... In my case it's usual that I'm not happy with any of the shots. That's the pure truth... Not always, but many times.
Cheers,
Juan
helenhill
11-01-2009, 08:16
I'm Pathetic....:eek:
I consider myself LUCKY if I get 3 to 4....
Chris101
11-25-2009, 07:26
I'm easy. I'll usually keep and print a quarter of all my film. Of course I get the "Why did you take a picture of that?" thing all the time.
samoksner
11-27-2009, 13:07
I guess what the roll is... If I'm shooting on the street, me expectations are different then if I'm shooting an assignment or just a night out with friends. But overall, i expect the following per roll: 1 portfolio quality, 3 print worthy shots and a dozen shots I'll share online with friends.
I came across a good Winogrand quote the other day.
(His appetite for shooting a lot of film is well known).
When asked how many pictures he takes to get 1 good one, he replied,
"Art isn't judged in terms of industrial efficiency".
Cheers,
Gary
IMHO this is a pointless debate, because 'keepers per roll' has such a number of variables that what will plucking a number tell us? Variable include:
Type of shooting
Quality threshold required
Experience
Whether you are having a good day
What you pick today compared to two years in the future
Once in a blue moon I get half a dozen that I would print for exhibition on one roll. Sometimes I shoot 30 rolls and don't feel any make it past 'quite nice.'
Then there is the question of 'how many is enough.' This also varies and changes over time, it depends on budgets, time constraints, purpose etc. Obviously a two day short holiday needs to have moer keepers than a two year project delivers in two days...
Ronald M
12-02-2009, 06:02
After decades, i expect 75%. Know what it takes to make a good shot and do not push the button if all is not correct. Spray and pray may work with a machine gun, rearely with photography.
After decades, i expect 75%. Know what it takes to make a good shot and do not push the button if all is not correct. Spray and pray may work with a machine gun, rearely with photography.
Are you serious? Such a percentage is about 100x too optimistic for most forms of RF photography (e.g. documentary/street) at the top end of the quality scale. Sounds like you are playing it waaaaay too safe. Do you no longer experiment or try new things?
When working various styles under certain circumstances, one needs to work in a very intuitive, fluid manner and that means not getting the right shot a lot of the time, but it does mean that you have to keep moving, shooting, engaging, shifting, shooting, re-engaging etc. Its not a question of pray and spray necessarily but accepting that there are so many things to bring together in space and time and your ability to monitor them all, in detail and perfectly, is limited. I know that if i waited for everything to be clearly perfect in the frame I would miss far more than I would gain by being somewhat more relaxed and instinctive. I get a fair few shots by anticipating or simply going with the flow. And this does demand skill of the photographer!
Your exceptionally methodological approach could be considered equally unconducive to the best results as 'spray and pray' and I think we would struggle to find even a BTZS LF worker that could come even close to this sort of success rate. If, however, a person is using a RF to take very safe landscape shots or static objects, such as steam locomotives, the success rate is going to be much higher for the intended goal, but that does not mean the shot is 'any good' only that you produced a correctly exposed shot with the composition as intended and with very easy goals. If I counted all my keepers as 'well exposed and looking sensible' my percentage would be a lot higher, but I am not sure this is what a keeper is to most people. I think they are talking about something you would put in a portfolio that you would show, or perhaps put in front of a critical eye, or consider a shot you feel represents your high standards and best level of achievement.
Al Kaplan
12-02-2009, 19:09
When I look over contact sheets from the sixties or seventies it seems that I had a much higher percentage of keepers than I thought at the time. I don't get that high a percentage now with my current work. Perhaps it's just too soon to make that call.
OurManInTangier
12-03-2009, 01:39
I'm astonished that some are able to get so many quality photographs from each roll of film they put through the camera. If I could get a picture from each roll that I felt was good enough for my portfolio I'd be expecting to either make an awful lot of money or be hailed a 'genius' photographer.
I suppose as Turtle debates above, there are many factors involved including the types of photographs you are making that may affect the 'quality turnover.' Those that make very fast exposures due to trying to capture a specific moment will always have a higher failure rate. Those that are able to consider what is before them and how they wish to capture its image should have a higher success ratio. However I still struggle with the idea that so many people really believe that they have so many top quality images from a 36 exposure roll.
With the exception of my work website this is the only place I post images online and the images I post here are always just pictures of things that I'm attracted to ( not street, just pictures taken on streets.) As such I should be happy to post pretty much anything even if the quality isn't great, yet I haven't posted a picture to the gallery in months - I'm still taking pictures but if I think its crap then it goes nowhere and far too much of what I take is crap. I may know this when I'm shooting but take it anyway to keep a rhythm or because I trust the instinct that made me lift the camera or, indeed as Al said above, I may find that there's more to them after revisiting them some years later. Yet there is a very simple fact that remains, in my case at least; the majority of the frames I shoot with my rangefinders don't work to my satisfaction and this means I can shoot several films before I find an image that genuinely hits the mark in my eyes.
So, I'm unable to vote as I can't honestly say that I get as many as one per film :o;)
i know that feeling!
I do too, but I wish it was a more frequent occurrence!
Nor would I want them to be. I think we had just exactly the right number of Jan Vermeers. And most other great artists I can think of as well.
Nicely put.
:D:D:D
From a 24 exposure roll nowadays, I expect anywhere from 4-6 that I keep around, maybe print, and put together as a part of a project.
However, average of 1 or less per roll that I would print large and display as a standalone image.
From a roll of 120, probably 2 or 3 shots.
I'm pretty happy with my hitrate considering I bracket both ways for some of my shots.
"Good" for me at this stage is if it's in focus and not totally under exposed - a much lower standard than most of you here.
chris00nj
04-29-2010, 10:55
Well it depends. If I have a lot of time to prep, such as a landscape/citiscape shot on vacation when my wife is in the gift shop, I expect a higher rate of good photos. However, if I am trying to capture a photo of my daughter moving around, I have to worry about:
1. Focus
2. Lighting
3. Timing of action
4. Frame
So one in 10 is a good rate of success there.
Bike Tourist
04-29-2010, 11:00
- 0 -
(I don't need ANY good shots to be happy.)
David Hegar
04-29-2010, 11:07
If I can get ONE frame that captured, at the same time, genuine moment and originality (in composition)...then I'll be so happy.
"Good" for me at this stage is if it's in focus and not totally under exposed - a much lower standard than most of you here.
Yet that's a good basis, Patti! We can add to that a lack of camera shake, processing errors, etc too. While we work on technical improvement (errr, almost said "perfection"), hopefully there will be some aesthetic successes along the way. Some will be surprises, maybe even accidental success from "mistakes" gone good.
The whole question of the thread can be ambiguous... What is meant by "happy with"? How happy? How good must a "keeper" be? It's all very variable and individual. Some are pickier, more self-critical. "Happy with" is still a good goal though!
jbielikowski
05-04-2010, 13:32
If half or less roll are not keepers I'm angry. Got high expectations of myself.
;)
What I really want to see when I develop a roll of film these days is thirty six correct exposures! At least I know that when I get the composition correct I won't have it ruined by a poor exposure that will torment me in post processing! :p
barnwulf
05-16-2010, 15:42
It’s pretty important to keep digital files or negatives around for awhile and take another look a couple of weeks or a month later. I came back from a landscape shooting trip one time and looked through two or three rolls and was very disappointed. I didn’t think I had gotten anything on those rolls. I put them aside and looked at them a month later and found three on one roll that somehow had become very nice photographs over that month. Sometimes first time I look at them I have too many expectations. A month later I can look at with fresh eyes and can judge them much better.
Vincent.G
05-16-2010, 15:47
Every roll of film that I used to take photos of my family gives me 36 keepers. Once I hit the streets, I would be happy to get just 1 or 2 keepers per roll.
I can be perfectly happy with a single good shot on a roll of film..
Steve M.
06-23-2010, 22:00
When I was shooting a Leicsflex SL and using 36 exp film I might get 4 or 5 keepers on a roll. That camera was magical. Now that I'm shooting 6x6 MF w/ 120 film I feel good if I get 1 keeper out of 2 or 3 rolls, so the success rate has gone down.
barnwolf made a very valid point about checking your shots after some time has passed. It's nearly always surprising how differently you see them.
sigh... when i get that first one that makes me happy, i'll quit photography, promise
:cool:
Depending on how challenging conditions are, I'm going for 75%+ correctly exposed and in focus. Less than that and I'm sloppy. More, and I'm hesitating on the shutter release.
On an average day on the street I might get 3 to 6 passably good shots on a roll of 36. On a bad day I might get less than a shot per roll. I've had a couple of days in my life where I had 20 or 25 per roll.
I dream about those days.
Herjulfr
08-21-2010, 08:02
Usually all my shots are well exposed, well focused, unless I am experimenting. Technically, most of my photos are "correct". However, on most rolls, only one photo would be worth to be printed. Often, none of them is good enough, to my eyes, to be printed and hanged on a wall.
Sometimes I get more lucky : I happen to be at the right place at the right time, and I can get up to 4, 5 good photos in a row.
That said, I am very careful in my shooting, and I burn less than a roll per month, unless I am travelling.
If you shoot a 36 frame roll how many frames do you have to get from that roll to be happy?
If I get one that is perfect I´m happy but I wanna get at least 5 good frame from a roll.
When I shoot 6X6 I wanna get at least 3.
3 from a roll of 6x6! I'd be happy with one every third roll.
Be your own best critic is my attitude. I don't care whether I shoot ten rolls of 36 or fill a 16gb card every week, I'm not going to judge my images like an accountant or CEO who wants to make the company books look healthier. So if I get ten from one roll of 36 and none from the next four rolls thats OK, the Karma wasn't there, the mood wasn't right, it doesn't matter, thats how it works. Nothing is really wasted anyway because I've been experimenting and working at things and trying stuff. And if I'm ever down at the mouth about a wasted day out I look at copies of contact sheets from the great photographers. And you only need to see the experiments either side of 'the' photograph to realise there must be many more contact sheets of images that are all failed experiments.
The problem with expecting a hit rate is that images that are not really 'perfect' are forced to become 'perfect' just to balance the books. But thats not to say you shouldn't show people the imperfect images, thats where ideas can coalesce and mature. Just don't expect five pictures from every roll of 36 you shoot to be shown in your lifetime retrospective show at the Guggenheim, they won't really be that perfect.
Steve
Depends on circumstance, sometimes I go out shooting looking to take something to put on the wall, in that case I'll be happy if I just get that one shot.
If I'm out at a bar or something and just happen to have a camera with me, I don't mind if it's all just snapshots, because that's all I wanted.
On holidays etc. when I'm unlikely to be able to repeat the photo shoot soon, then I'll want a pretty high keep rate.
Paul Luscher
09-08-2010, 08:35
Some days most of them, some days none of them.
I do expect at least 70% technically right, just that, the content may not be that I like.
Then maybe 5 or 6 out of 36 exp with 2 or 3 being 3/5 stars (I like), occasionally 1 or 2 with 4 stars, hardly get one frame with 5 stars. I do scan all of them and keeping all for review and learning. Sometimes, I find a few being 'interesting' for testing of different representation after editing.
I personally don't believe technically correct pictures are good pictures, but it certainly requires good grasp of skills to capture/present what I want to make. A photo IMHO should always be an impression at heart.
I usually don't have any expectations. But when I take my M6 and Summicrons to India, I have come to expect at least 15 amazing frames per roll. And I'm quite picky about image quality. What a wonderful tool.
barnwulf
09-18-2010, 11:17
I was reading something written by Ansel Adams from a book titled, Photographers on Photography Edited by Nathan Lyons published in 1966. Ansel said that if he gets ten good photographs a year that he is satisfied with that. So I guess my hopes for at least 1 good shot per roll is actually pretty high expectations. Sometimes I get maybe 3 on a roll and then again I get rolls that have nothing that I want to keep. - jim
The book has several pages written by a lot of the old great photographers like, Berenice Abbott, Wynn Bullock, Henri Cartier-Bresson, Robert Frank, Dorthea Lang, W. Eugene Smith, Steichen, Stieglitz, Strand, Weston, and Minor White and others.
JayGannon
09-18-2010, 12:57
I usually don't have any expectations. But when I take my M6 and Summicrons to India, I have come to expect at least 15 amazing frames per roll. And I'm quite picky about image quality. What a wonderful tool.
It wont be difficult, some places you can just point and click and its instanly going to have something interesting.
SimonSawSunlight
11-08-2010, 13:59
somewhere in between 20 and zero (on a 36 exp roll). hardly ever more than twenty. but even in the rare event of 20 satisfying shots (happens more in 'reportage' rather than 'street'), I'd still edit them down to a selection 4-8 frames, usually.
I voted 1 per roll - but that's way too high. Shots I'm really satisfied with (not talking of exposure and focus) are probably less than 1 in every 5 rolls, or something like that... (well, we have to set the bar high). Shots I can show to friends, maybe 2-3 per roll. Obviously much depends on what kind of photography I do - with street photo having the lowest success rate.
Brian Levy
11-11-2010, 07:19
Though I shoot very little 35, my satisfaction level standard is the same 100% safisfactory shoots. However, if I get 1-2 excellent and good enough to printg and hang and the balance are decent to very good, then I am a happy camper. Of course this does not count when shooting new film, a new camera or testing something else. Then if by the end of the roll if I've dialed it in, I'm satisfied.
p.giannakis
11-13-2010, 00:03
I shoot a roll per month so i suppose i will be very have if in one year i have 12 good pictures taken....
tokengirl
01-09-2011, 04:09
I guess it depends on one's definition of "good frames". If "good" means correctly exposed and in focus, then I strive for 100% and maybe one or two frames should be cut from the strip and tossed.
But that's not how I define "good". For me, "good" is a photo that just works visually, irrespective of the technical aspects. If I get one "good" photo from a roll of film, then I consider that success. Anything above that is a bonus.
sepiareverb
01-12-2011, 06:53
I'm more in the rolls per shot category.
I am surprised to see that over 50% of responders have 3 or LESS shots per roll that they think are good.
This makes me think of guys complaining about digital post processing. If you get one good shot per day / week then your digital post production should be minimal since you wouldn't do the non-keepers.
It also gets me thinking of archiving... do they throw out the 'bad' ones or have an archive of over 90% bad shots?
And it gets me thinking of the people who say digital users over shoot. If you have 1 or 2 keepers, aren't you doing the same.
I think this poll tell us that we have to think more of composition and exposure.
What do you think? What does the poll tell you?
Steve
I don't use all 36, maybe 30x, but I will photograph 2-5 frames of the same thing in a few different angles and or f/stops, and see which one works best. (I generally know ahead of time, But I like options later when I re-visit the photographs later, I might see a different variant as the better photograph).
So I voted 6+, Because that would indicate that a few photographs in a small series where good to go, instead of 1 photo, in that series.
Edit:
Let me be clear, these 6+ are good photographs, I may not have any "outstanding" photographs in that 6+, I may have 1, maybe.
So, as far as keepers, 6+, as far as "outstanding", 1 maybe
I am surprised to see that over 50% of responders have 3 or LESS shots per roll that they think are good.
This makes me think of guys complaining about digital post processing. If you get one good shot per day / week then your digital post production should be minimal since you wouldn't do the non-keepers.
It also gets me thinking of archiving... do they throw out the 'bad' ones or have an archive of over 90% bad shots?
And it gets me thinking of the people who say digital users over shoot. If you have 1 or 2 keepers, aren't you doing the same.
I think this poll tell us that we have to think more of composition and exposure.
What do you think? What does the poll tell you?
Steve
I don't delete "bad" photographs, unless it just OOF. I may find, down the road that one of those photographs works for different reasons. Or I may find my Post skills can "make" it a better photograph.
So, yes, I do archive the whole roll. You never know what the future brings.
Looking back in my archive, so far it's been about one frame per ten rolls that I've been really happy with.
At the time I shoot- lots. By the time I dev and scan, a maximum of 1!
If good means "winner", those few photos I (would) print and put it on a wall, show it to other... I would be around 0.1 per roll.
Looking at the discussion here I suppose the OP equals "good" to "normal personal keeper". Than an average of 3 out of 36 images is my personal feeling.
mike rosenlof
12-09-2011, 13:56
Too many variables. What defines "happy with"? There are lots of different criterea...
Good enough to upload to flickr.
Good enough to E-mail to your mother.
Good enough to print.
Good enough to hang on your wall.
Good enough that a friend will hang it on his wall if you give him/her a framed copy.
Good enough that someone would buy at an art fair.
Good enough that a gallery would represent.
Good enough that a museum would buy.
or maybe...
Good enough that your client will pay your invoice.
Good enough that your client will use it more than once.
Good enough that your client will use it more than once, and pay for the additional use.
Good enough that your client will hire you again. (maybe these last two are the same!)
"happy with" to me means good enough to show to my friends and good enough to have an enlargement for the wall done.
I figure one per roll whether 35mm or 6x6 more is nice but one image that exceeds my expectations is a great feeling.
With digital my success rate is higher ... but only when i shoot B&W
mnmleung
12-09-2011, 20:01
two on a very good day ...
but I like them all, because photos are like a journal for me
chathaway
12-21-2011, 14:54
...to slap on flickr, a couple per roll...to print and put on a wall...one or two a year, maybe...
How many good frames do you need from a 36 frame roll to be happy?
Any is good. ]'-)
...to slap on flickr, a couple per roll...to print and put on a wall...one or two a year, maybe...
Ditto. Flickr for me is more of an edited contact sheet.
thirtyfivefifty
02-07-2012, 20:59
One day I would like to shoot a photo set on a slide roll.
Sylvester
02-19-2012, 13:38
I never had my "perfect" shot that I would blow up the size of my wall if I could, but normally I have 3 or 4 pictures that I like enough to post on Flickr and print 5x7... maybe 1 for a 8x10 blow up...
I would be happy with one per roll.
I am beginning to throw away the negs that didn't cut it due to space limitations and ease of cataloging. However people I know prefer to have the entire roll intact in a Printfile even though they are rejects. With mounted slides I just toss the rejects but seems people don't do that with negs.
somewhere in between 20 and zero (on a 36 exp roll). hardly ever more than twenty. but even in the rare event of 20 satisfying shots (happens more in 'reportage' rather than 'street'), I'd still edit them down to a selection 4-8 frames, usually.
I don't think I ever had a roll full of craps but I largely agree with your range. For me it's roughly this:
Happy: 3-20
Proud: 1-6
Lifetime keeper + large print: 1 every 2-3 rolls
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7030/6819570359_2ed4cc21c6_z.jpg
When I estimate as close as possible, I think I have seen around 1.000 photographs of HCB since 1964, including books and online sources. Assuming I was able to see only half of them, let's think that he had some 2.000 to 2.500 pictures all together issued, printed and exhibited. These all in 50 years, roughly 2.500 weeks... meaning more or less a picture a week. Probably Henri was shooting 10 rolls a week, if not more.
So if I get one frame per 10 rolls worth of keeping then I am pleased tremendously.
Dektol Dan
02-22-2012, 08:17
Photography is the same as shooting skeet. If I don't make at least .500 on a roll I can't live with myself. I live for making the shot, I have learned to see compositions 'come together'. That's the skill and the joy, it's like improvisation in jazz, one plays to what is on his plate at the moment. The rest of it can go hang.
I need 3 but if I get even 1 that is a triple A winner I would be happy. The problem is the 1 winner I get is usually not the one I thought it would be, which means I get zero intentional winners.
I can relate to that. It's never the one I expect to be good, but the one I just shot without thinking about it.
DSkjaeve
04-26-2012, 06:43
I would be very happy with 1-2 keepers per month. Didn't see that option so I went with 1 per roll.
traveler_101
04-26-2012, 07:45
If you shoot a 36 frame roll how many frames do
If I get one that is perfect I´m happy but I wanna get at least 5 good frame from a roll.
When I shoot 6X6 I wanna get at least 3.
Happy = 4.
Don't have that much experience but intuitively I felt 4 good shots is really great.
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