View Full Version : nationwide magazine seeking artists / photographers
http://www.lafamigliazine.com/site/Submission.php
These guys are edgy / hipster type publication -=-- nice guys --- great opportunities for publication --- thought I'd share ---
photogdave
08-15-2008, 09:03
No mention of payment...
it's an opportunity to get seen in print and garner exposure -- no cash involved
figures, everyone expects photographers to work for free...after all images just pop out of cameras magically like money grows on trees....
photogdave
08-15-2008, 09:23
it's an opportunity to get seen in print and garner exposure -- no cash involved
Publish and promote yourself on your own website. Don't give your work away so some magazine can use it to attract advertisers who will pay their bills, but not give anything back to those who create the actual content.
Double Negative
08-15-2008, 09:27
Publish and promote yourself on your own website. Don't give your work away so some magazine can use it to attract advertisers who will pay their bills, but not give anything back to those who create the actual content.
Agreed... I don't work for free, "credit" or not.
"Credit" and two bucks gets me on the subway. ;)
capitalK
08-15-2008, 09:34
Can my mortgage be paid by exposure? I should ask my bank and see what they say. If so, I'm in!
I really wasn't targeting the people aiming at making a living off of magazine sales / image sales -- we've all whored out for free at some point... good for the younger members --- I've got magazines reviewing my book and had to give some copies away to get to that point --- about.com has reviewed it, a local monthly magazine here has as well --- I think the commerce / business end of the business is a much needed forum topic area as is publication opportunities
musicians deal with the play for free / play for tips bit every day as well ---- and it's created some problems in our local community -- another story, a long drawn out post for that kind of grim story
photomoof
08-15-2008, 11:04
Memphis is right, get your work out there -- the money will follow.
The mag I am with does not accept unsolicited submissions, but believe me, it's a good thing to be in it. Editorial work never pays much, but get an editorial spread in Vogue and see where it takes you...
Your mortgage and more can be paid for by exposure. :p
victoriapio
08-15-2008, 11:45
Intersting debate - let me add my two cents worth...
I was a full time photojournalist for 15+ years . I got published in many national, international publications and traveled all over the globe. I did work for many large American and international companies ranging from oil companies, to underwater service companies to movie companies.
Not once did I pick up my camera for ANYONE for FREE (friends excluded, so too the local arts groups I support here in Victoria, Texas) . I never got a single paying job from an art director or photo editor that was not a direct result of me showing them my work. Let me say this in another way: I never got a single job from someone seeing my "photo credit" in a magazine, and I was published in Readers Digest, Outside, Esquire, Oceans, Skin Diver, Sport Diver, etc, etc, etc.
Once I was published I really marketing myself using samples of my PAID, PUBLISHED work. But marketing yourself with UNPAID, PUBLISHED work does not help you. That was my work experience.
"The only people that look at photo credits are photographers." You can quote me on that.
O.C.
tomtodeath
08-15-2008, 12:24
"The only people that look at photo credits are photographers." You can quote me on that.
Definately true. Give it a try: Ask one of your non-photographer friends or co-workders who their favorite photographer is.
(their answer most likely will be either "I dont know", "Ansel Adams", or "you are".)
Chriscrawfordphoto
08-15-2008, 13:05
Memphis is right, get your work out there -- the money will follow.
The mag I am with does not accept unsolicited submissions, but believe me, it's a good thing to be in it. Editorial work never pays much, but get an editorial spread in Vogue and see where it takes you...
Your mortgage and more can be paid for by exposure. :p
I've never seen a penny from giving away work in exchange for 'exposure'. Ever. My bills are paid when someone writes me a check in exchange for my work...that "exposure" scam is the oldest in the book. My son and I can't eat 'exposure' and 'exposure' cannot be exchanged for food at Kroger or housing at my apartment manager's office. They want Dollars only, please. So do I.
photomoof
08-15-2008, 18:22
Once I was published I really marketing myself using samples of my PAID, PUBLISHED work. But marketing yourself with UNPAID, PUBLISHED work does not help you.
I am sure that is correct for commercial/industrial work (including journalism), but where would you publish it for free anyway, or better why?
But I am not thinking of commercial work, or illustrations. Few on the RFF seem to be doing anything remotely industrial/commercial in nature. Some are doing work that could be used for illustrations. One fact remains however, editorial work, published or not, pays little unless you get to the story level like National Geo, or you are on staff, or a regular stringer. One commercial or annual report pays 25 times what a "published" photo does.
And when I say "not paid" I mean being published in a review or interview. For artists it is the only way I know of.
There are many roads to success.
Chriscrawfordphoto
08-15-2008, 18:55
I am sure that is correct for commercial work (including journalism), but where would you publish it for free anyway?
But the vast majority of photographers on the RFF are making what can only be described as art photography, not journalism.
And when I say "not paid" I mean publishing in a review or interview. For artists it is the only way.
Reviews or articles about the artist aren't what we're talking about. Photographers are often asked to give their artistic work (that is, stuff not done for a commercial client) for free as stock photos to illustrate articles about the subject matter of the photo, or worse yet, to illustrate advertisements. They're told that the "Exposure" will be their payment, and that's a load of "Mierda". Art photos often have real commercial value as stock photos. Amateurs don't know that and businesses take advantage of them.
Interesting thing about articles: Popular Photography's photo editor called me one morning in early 2006 wanting to do a 2 page article about me. I didn't expect to get paid for something like that, since it was about me and my work. They offered me $500! The article appeared in the November, 2003 issue.
jan normandale
08-15-2008, 19:02
this is an ongoing debate, some of us will provide images, some of us won't. Some of us do under certain personally compelling circumstances. I'm in the "won't" camp with infrequent "compelling"
victoriapio
08-15-2008, 20:43
Reviews or articles about the artist aren't what we're talking about. Photographers are often asked to give their artistic work (that is, stuff not done for a commercial client) for free as stock photos to illustrate articles about the subject matter of the photo, or worse yet, to illustrate advertisements. They're told that the "Exposure" will be their payment, and that's a load of "Mierda". Art photos often have real commercial value as stock photos. Amateurs don't know that and businesses take advantage of them.
Interesting thing about articles: Popular Photography's photo editor called me one morning in early 2006 wanting to do a 2 page article about me. I didn't expect to get paid for something like that, since it was about me and my work. They offered me $500! The article appeared in the November, 2003 issue.
Christopher Crawford - Not to get off thread or to steal this topic, but I love your "Forgotten Indiana" work. My wife is a Hoosier and I really enjoyed our visits up there while her parents were still alive. There is real magic in some of those images. I hope there is a book in the making.
One other thing Christopher - did the spread in PP start the phone ringing? Sometimes that kind of exposure really works well, other times it just seems to go unnoticed.
Back to the thread - Sure everyone can use exposure - but if you need exposure to the art directors or photo editors that can pay photographers, not those that want your stuff for free. It is very hard to break into the business and as someone mentioned earlier the pay has never been that great. But I have never done anything that was as soulfully rewarding as heading to the unknown on someone else's money.
Keep in mind that was back in the days where it was pretty easy to separate the men from the boys: no auto focus, no auto exposure (you certainly did not trust in-camera meters), fast darkroom work, shooting lots of K64 and almost all pros were using strictly mechanical cameras - Nikon, Oly and Canon. So if a photo editor trusted you with a contract assignment, it was because you could produce the goods. And that is what is missing from giving your photos to a magazine - they do not trust you enough to pay you - or they have so many good photographers willing to give away their photos that they will never have to pay you for good photography. So they will NEVER pay anyone for their talent.
I hope everyone that wants to be a working pro gets the chance but don't expect the phone to start ringing just because you get a photo credit in a magazine - especially a magazine that won't pay. I got some very lucky breaks in my career and if you prove me wrong and get the exposure you need to jump into the business by donating your images, then I'll celebrate with you.
Keep clicking,
O.C.
O.C.
Chriscrawfordphoto
08-15-2008, 20:57
Christopher Crawford - Not to get off thread or to steal this topic, but I love your "Forgotten Indiana" work. My wife is a Hoosier and I really enjoyed our visits up there. Sure looks like a book in the making.
O.C.
Thanks O.C. What part of Indiana is your wife from? I'm in Fort Wayne, up in the northeast corner of the state. I'd love to do a book. I'm not famous or wealthy enough yet...lol A couple of years ago Indiana University Press published a book of photos by another photographer I know who lives nearby. His photos were not from Indiana, all from the desert southwest and California, but they published it since he lives here and is well known. I heard it cost him $10,000 that they made him pay to share production costs! That's more than I will likely earn this year :(
Sure it's a useless waste of time for "working" photographers.
Though I'm certain a lot of "amateurs" and "hobbyists" would love to see their efforts in print, all ages but the younger ones especially.
That's how millions of photo magazines are sold each month. People buying them to see if their photo is featured in "Readers picks of the week", maybe win a free film.
Working pros want money. Budding artists NEED exposure.
I agree with Pitxu on this point. Some folks have no intention of making a living doing photography. On the flip side I do get upset when I see a magazine asking for free photos and the magazine is chock full of advertisement. That in my mind is just unethical and a slap in the face for photographers.
victoriapio
08-15-2008, 21:18
Thanks O.C. What part of Indiana is your wife from? I'm in Fort Wayne, up in the northeast corner of the state. I'd love to do a book. I'm not famous or wealthy enough yet...lol A couple of years ago Indiana University Press published a book of photos by another photographer I know who lives nearby. His photos were not from Indiana, all from the desert southwest and California, but they published it since he lives here and is well known. I heard it cost him $10,000 that they made him pay to share production costs! That's more than I will likely earn this year :(
Having to pay $10,000 to get your photo book published is $10,000 worse than giving the photos away :bang: I remember a few years when $10,000 would have made me feel rich too.
What I like about your work is the theme and the fact that probably very few of those locations are still around or will be for long. Perhaps a state historical association or the like might see the appeal - or better yet some rich company that would pay for the printing (and photos!) as a way of preserving those memories. Or perhaps a historical group could pay a stipend (or grant - yeah a grant) to have you document more of those locations - jeez they have to be disappearing fast. Texas has such a program for writers and photographers but obviously the competition is quite fierce.
My wife was from Evansville and her dad was a preacher/farmer. She lived much of her youth south of Terra Haute in the likes of Prairie Creek and Sullivan.
Best of luck - keep clicking
O.C.
Chriscrawfordphoto
08-15-2008, 21:51
Having to pay $10,000 to get your photo book published is $10,000 worse than giving the photos away :bang: I remember a few years when $10,000 would have made me feel rich too.
What I like about your work is the theme and the fact that probably very few of those locations are still around or will be for long. Perhaps a state historical association or the like might see the appeal - or better yet some rich company that would pay for the printing (and photos!) as a way of preserving those memories. Or perhaps a historical group could pay a stipend (or grant - yeah a grant) to have you document more of those locations - jeez they have to be disappearing fast. Texas has such a program for writers and photographers but obviously the competition is quite fierce.
My wife was from Evansville and her dad was a preacher/farmer. She lived much of her youth south of Terra Haute in the likes of Prairie Creek and Sullivan.
Best of luck - keep clicking
O.C.
I'd love to find someone like that to help me, but it isn't gonna happen here. The only way you get something like that here is if you come from a well-connected (wealthy) family. I don't. I am, as I have often been told here, white trash. I'm the 7th person in my family's history to graduate from high school (and interestingly the 4th to graduate from college). That's why I left Indiana for New Mexico, because after I graduated from college in 1999 I couldn't get a job.
I knew commercial photo studios and graphic design firms whose people constantly told me how wonderful my work was...but they couldn't hire me because they had to hire young people who's fathers and mothers had pull in the community. That **** pissed me off. I applied for over 700 jobs between 1999 and 2006 and ended up homeless twice when my family decided they couldn't afford to feed me. The second time I packed up everything I owned, which was very little since i had never earned more than $3000 in a year, into the back seat of the 1999 Chevy Caprice that my grandpa gave me before he got sick and I drove to Santa Fe where a friend had offered me a place to stay.
I arrived in Santa Fe, A place I had never visited and where I knew only one person (a girl i met on the internet!). Within a month I was doing commercial photo work freelance and the second month I was there I made more money in one month than the previous two years in Indiana combined.
I love the beauty of the Indiana landscape and actually prefer it to New Mexico's mountains and deserts. I only came back here because of my 11 yr old son, and I sometimes regret that because we are so poor. I have been able to make it only because a client from Santa Fe sends me money to keep me from starving. No wealthy person in Indiana would EVER do that. I could die in the streets here and no one would care. A lot of my work is nostalgia for a past when I think people actually card about each other in the midwest, before they began lusting after money and appearances the way EVERYONE here does now. My website doesn't say any of that because for a long time I feared offending anyone here. I have never made any money here so I guess it doesn't matter. I may reword my Forgotten Indiana intro to make it more personal and real.
http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com/fine_art/portfolio/mack/images/titles/chris-mack1-small.jpg
photomoof
08-16-2008, 04:45
Reviews or articles about the artist aren't what we're talking about. Photographers are often asked to give their artistic work (that is, stuff not done for a commercial client) for free as stock photos to illustrate articles about the subject matter of the photo, or worse yet, to illustrate advertisements. They're told that the "Exposure" will be their payment, and that's a load of "Mierda". Art photos often have real commercial value as stock photos. Amateurs don't know that and businesses take advantage of them.
Interesting thing about articles: Popular Photography's photo editor called me one morning in early 2006 wanting to do a 2 page article about me. I didn't expect to get paid for something like that, since it was about me and my work. They offered me $500! The article appeared in the November, 2003 issue.
Well of course Chris, giving your work away for an ad would be crazy.
But your experience with Pop Photo is not unusual, often honorariums are given for articles (but not reviews). But let's put this in another light. If Aperture calls you tomorrow, and wants to do a spread on you, because they saw your work, the question is where are they going to see your work (assuming you do not enter their yearly contest?)
There are all kinds of photographers in the real world, and many paths to success. And what constitutes a "payment" and what constitutes an "honorarium" all depends on point of view.
Ditto if someone wants to do a article on you in Artforum, or Art News.
There are no rules, you make success however it works for you.
Edit:
I have lately begun to notice that I am running headlong into the concept of the "working pro" as mentioned by "victoriapio" which is most decidedly not what I am talking about here, or am personally interested in. I am exclusively talking about "working non-commercial [fine] artists," who while they are pros, are not normally selling their work in the same way. Most are looking for grants, commissions, a dealer, and of course ultimately collectors. I have personal experience with both worlds, and mixed success in both.
Most of my friends are like me and live in both worlds. Some do portraits, some do work as corporate photographers, some work on films (something I did a lot), many teach. As Chris points out you have to get by.
.... "working artists," who while they are pros, are not normally selling their work in the same way. Most are looking for grants, ...
Being a grain farmer & being paid not to grow wheat....... that's being a "mailbox farmer" how about "mailbox photographer" :)
robert
There is one instance where I would gladly whore myself out for work.
That would be to build a portfolio/body of work surrounding a certain idea/theme/genre/etc.
For instance, i'd gladly do work for free to build a photojournalism/documentary portfolio in order to advance onto something that does pay.
photomoof
08-16-2008, 15:50
Being a grain farmer & being paid not to grow wheat....... that's being a "mailbox farmer" how about "mailbox photographer" :)
robert
As far as I know there are no programs paying photographers not to take photos, but if I run into one I will let everyone know. :rolleyes:
photomoof
08-16-2008, 16:00
There is one instance where I would gladly whore myself out for work.
That would be to build a portfolio/body of work surrounding a certain idea/theme/genre/etc.
For instance, i'd gladly do work for free to build a photojournalism/documentary portfolio in order to advance onto something that does pay.
That is what authors do -- and most artists. You make the work, you hope someone will print or buy it. Not as reliable, and can force you to work as a waiter (etc) to feed yourself and family.
Despite "victoriapio's" success in always getting paid a good rate, in much of the creative world the structure remains unpaid interns at the bottom, paid interns (pay you cannot live on) next, and low pay for many under 30.
Ask anyone who has worked in film, or video, especially at PBS, or worked at a magazine, museum, or theater. "Pay" is very symbolic.
In the creative world pay is very out of balance, pretty much feast or famine for many.
victoriapio
08-16-2008, 20:06
[Despite "victoriapio's" success in always getting paid a good rate, in much of the creative world the structure remains unpaid interns at the bottom, paid interns (pay you cannot live on) next, and low pay for many under 30.
Ask anyone who has worked in film, or video, especially at PBS, or worked at a magazine, museum, or theater. "Pay" is very symbolic.
In the creative world pay is very out of balance, pretty much feast or famine for many.[/quote]
Yes the distinction between artistic photography and pjournalism was always there and I actually believe artistic photography was even harder to get paid for than photojournalism. And good artistic photography demands perhaps even better photography plus an original idea or concept.
And I never said I ALWAYS got paid a good rate :D. But after four years of studying photojournalism in college - that after being a photo hound since age 13 - I felt I had the know-how to get the job done. Then I got some lucky breaks and eventually got to know the photo editors or editors of every magazine in Texas - so the work flowed enough for me to survive and save a little money. Then I got some work from national magazines, typically on Texas based stories or teamed with a Texas writer. Still, I never made any serious money until I got out of the pj business full time - some friends and I started a business and that led me down the path I am on now. As I stated earlier - it was a different world back then, and now with the internet, better equipment, no budget for art, the print media's demise and demand for video as much as, or even more than still photography, it is much harder to make a living now for pjs than ever before.
But I truly feel for the photographic artist - which I most certainly was not. Take the work of Christopher Crawford (who posted several times on this thread). Some solid work that deserves to be published - but who will take the chance on it? Who will fund it? A lot of great artistic photography has always remained unpublished, now much of it may remain unseen except for the internet. And few have figured out how to make artistic photos pay on the Web. In fact few have figured out how to make ANY photography pay through the Internet.
Keep clicking guys and gals,
O.C.
I was just contacted by a photo editor from a Brazilian magazine who was doing a piece on an up and coming local chef. She saw some photos on my blog and wanted to use them in the piece. I figured Brazilian magazine for an automaker, hmmmm sounds like a credit deal. Anyway she offered 100 US per photo and I said I'll take it. I get my stuff published, somebody sees it, some money flows into the coffers. It's all good.
As for people seeing your work; I'm a writer, and I never work for free but I have taken some jobs that pay sh*te just to keep my name out there. Editors saw that work and contacted me with better paying jobs. I often meet people who were fans of a newspaper column I did in Tokyo for 4-1/2 years--it's nice to be appreciated. So exposure is good it leads to work. If you are a pro get paid, if you take pictures for fun there is nothing wrong with doing it for exposure, you never know where it might lead.
photogdave
08-16-2008, 20:43
I just think some of these publications (not necessarily the one Memphis first mentioned) recognize that some amateur photographers are happy just to get published for the "credit" and use that to their own advantage. I don't agree with it personally, that's all.
Chriscrawfordphoto
08-16-2008, 21:30
Yes the distinction between artistic photography and pjournalism was always there and I actually believe artistic photography was even harder to get paid for than photojournalism. And good artistic photography demands perhaps even better photography plus an original idea or concept.
And I never said I ALWAYS got paid a good rate :D. But after four years of studying photojournalism in college - that after being a photo hound since age 13 - I felt I had the know-how to get the job done. Then I got some lucky breaks and eventually got to know the photo editors or editors of every magazine in Texas - so the work flowed enough for me to survive and save a little money. Then I got some work from national magazines, typically on Texas based stories or teamed with a Texas writer. Still, I never made any serious money until I got out of the pj business full time - some friends and I started a business and that led me down the path I am on now. As I stated earlier - it was a different world back then, and now with the internet, better equipment, no budget for art, the print media's demise and demand for video as much as, or even more than still photography, it is much harder to make a living now for pjs than ever before.
But I truly feel for the photographic artist - which I most certainly was not. Take the work of Christopher Crawford (who posted several times on this thread). Some solid work that deserves to be published - but who will take the chance on it? Who will fund it? A lot of great artistic photography has always remained unpublished, now much of it may remain unseen except for the internet. And few have figured out how to make artistic photos pay on the Web. In fact few have figured out how to make ANY photography pay through the Internet.
Keep clicking guys and gals,
O.C.
O.C. I got your PM and will write back tomorrow....I haven't had time to write a good response.
About the internet, it has actually been a boon to me. I have had a website for a long time but never got sales off it till the end of last year. I first set up the site 6 yrs ago when I didn't know much about web design and most of the photos didn't have alt tags describing the photos. Without that, Google wasn't finding them :(
I went through my large online collection starting last fall and finishing a couple months ago and wrote detailed ALT tags for every photo in my fine art area. People started emailing asking prices to use them on ads, CD covers for bands (all small 'local' bands...but still they were willing to pay!), etc. I even sold one to a restaurant in Sweden that wanted one to decorate with. The Swedish place was a Texas themed restaurant, and they used a landscape photo I made in Texas. I have not made a huge amount of money this year selling my work, a few thousand dollars total, but the sales seemed to come at times when I was so broke I couldn't buy food or pay my rent and they saved me.
I have dropped out of the 'art world' that Fred (photomoof) talks about. That world is parasitic and designed to make everyone but the artist rich. I got tired of enriching wealthy parasites while I starved. I still starve sometimes, but no one profits from my suffering anymore. The internet is my main sales strategy and the most successful method of showing and selling my work that i have ever used. I made more money in the first 6 months of this year selling my work than I did in the last 14 yrs combined! I'm still poor. My total income this year will likely be around $10,000. That's less than I made in New Mexico (where I got a lot of commercial photo and graphic design work that I NEVER get here in Indiana) but it is twice what I made the last year I lived in Indiana before I moved to NM back in early 2006.
If I can keep sales increasing, I will eventually do alright. I wish I could find the money to go back to the southwest and especially Texas. Those photos have been far and away my best sellers. My stuff from Indiana is what I consider my best work, but it rarely sells. No one wants it. I'd like to go spend a month in Texas just to build a bigger stock library of photos that will sell.
photomoof
08-16-2008, 22:05
I have dropped out of the 'art world' that Fred (photomoof) talks about. That world is parasitic and designed to make everyone but the artist rich. I got tired of enriching wealthy parasites while I starved.
I have had that feeling at times. Non-profit art galleries show work, everyone [correction, I originally said showing] working in the gallery gets paid something, but the artists often see little in immediate results. Often the non-profits seem to be run for the prestige of the wealthy that support the galleries.
I resisted that venue for years. But some of my friends did not, they seemed to show anywhere someone had a wall, and in the end many of them now sell a lot of work.
At any rate pat yourself on the back, there are plenty of photographers out there making no money, you are getting by, and as you say, things are looking up.
Chriscrawfordphoto
08-16-2008, 22:21
I have had that feeling at times. Non-profit art galleries show work, everyone showing the work gets paid something, but the artists often see little in immediate results. Often the non-profits seem to be run for the prestige of the wealthy that support the galleries.
I resisted that venue for years. But some of my friends did not, they seemed to show anywhere someone had a wall, and in the end many of them now sell a lot of work.
At any rate pat yourself on the back, there are plenty of photographers out there making no money, you are getting by, and as you say, things are looking up.
Non profit galleries pay the artists to exhibit? Not here in Indiana, they charge us to exhibit! All the exhibits at non-profit galleries in the midwest charge entry fees. Not a lot of money ($10-$30 usually) but still its a far cry from being paid. Thats one of the reasons I quit exhibiting. I went through my records and realized i'd paid more in entry fees than I made in sales (and yeah they still charged commissions on the sales. Less than in NY..usually 35-40% instead of 50%). I agree with what you said about the wealthy patrons and the galleries being run for their glorification rather than for art. I saw that so much.
Roger Hicks
08-17-2008, 01:15
The ethics of working for free are indeed interesting. I've long said that my day rate is +/- $2000 a day. I've seldom earned $2000 in one day (and then, not for a few years now), and I don't think I've ever subsidized a job to the tune of $2000 a day, but I have certainly worked for nothing, for anything from a few hours to a couple of weeks, for causes I care about (Tibetan freedom) and for small start-ups (usually by friends on the internet).
With a commercial magazine, on the other hand, 'exposure' for nothing means driving down pay and opportunities for commercial writers and photographers, while still putting money in the pockets of the publishers. printers, distributors... Everyone, in fact, except the people who provide the material that the magazine needs to survive.
But there's an old saying that Chris, in particular, should appreciate. "Talent does what it can; genius does what it must." Whenever I hear about someone saying that they'll "turn pro when they're ready," I strongly suspect that they will NEVER be ready.
If I had applied myself to a conventional career in the same way as my brother did, I might well be a very rich man too (he has houses in London and New York, that sort of thing) -- though I probably wouldn't, because I'm a lot less competent than he is at suffering fools gladly. He still tells the story of asking me, "Why did you call him a f*ckwit?" and my replying, "Because if I hadn't, he might never have known; he might have thought he was behaving acceptably."
"Genius" is a term I hesitate to apply to myself -- I tend to reserve it for people like Beethoven or Churchill -- but in the context of the above quote, I'll put my hand up to it. For what I do, the pay is lousy -- but I can't imagine doing anything else. Or rather, I can, which is why I prefer what I am doing. "Take what you want, and pay for it, saieth the Lord."
Cheers,
R.
photomoof
08-17-2008, 03:39
Non profit galleries pay the artists to exhibit? Not here in Indiana, they charge us to exhibit! All the exhibits at non-profit galleries in the midwest charge entry fees. Not a lot of money ($10-$30 usually)
I changed the word "showing," since I mean the workers in the gallery are usually paid something. The entry fees are nothing as you mention, but it does cost to frame. So even if you show for "free" it costs plenty.
But that is the system. It is very hard at the bottom, and I found it tedious. But if you don't it is a way. Of course you can be very lucky as I was when young, and just have a dealer take you on. I did not do well however, too young and headstrong, I left the dealer, just not liking the scene. :bang:
photomoof
08-17-2008, 08:47
I thought about this thread overnight, and what Roger says is really at the core of "success."
The successful creative people I know are unrelenting, they show, work, talk, and I guess dream their work. When I meet them, they always seem to have some new project they are working on.
Some are really successful financially, some perhaps in a more spiritual way :p, but they are all doing what they believe in.
Only that level of dedication, coupled with a bit of luck, and the right personality, can ever make you financially successful. I never think about money -- I just live my life, secure in the knowledge I can always die in debt, my right as an American credit card holder.
Chris -- you might have used up the opportunities in Indiana. Just a thought, maybe not.
Chriscrawfordphoto
08-17-2008, 08:59
Chris -- you might have used up the opportunities in Indiana. Just a thought, maybe not.
Fred,
There never were any opportunities in Indiana for me. I should have left the split second that I graduated from college. I'm here now, instead of in New Mexico where I belong, because of my son, and only because of him. I do plan to leave again and return to New Mexico or perhaps go somewhere else depending on how things look when that happens.
photomoof
08-17-2008, 10:40
Fred,
There never were any opportunities in Indiana for me. I should have left the split second that I graduated from college. I'm here now, instead of in New Mexico where I belong, because of my son, and only because of him. I do plan to leave again and return to New Mexico or perhaps go somewhere else depending on how things look when that happens.
Well of course I don't know Indiana, I am from St. Louis, but my guess would be that there are fewer opportunities, but still Indiana is not a wasteland. I found plenty of things to get involved with in St. Louis before coming to NYC, including a wonderful video program with support of the Job Corps, and the City. There are creative groups everywhere.
my book is self published - but is a big exception to the norm of self publishing as Iwork for the publishing house - it cost me less than an outsider, it presented an easy opportunity and I'm willing to give away review copies, sell wholesale, etc
I agree working for free sucks --- you may have only seen one of my publish for credit photos (MAD magazine about 15 years ago) -- writers face the same challenges daily - there are no easy answers
crawdiddy
08-17-2008, 13:04
As far as I know there are no programs paying photographers not to take photos, but if I run into one I will let everyone know. :rolleyes:
Actually, John Edwards may have had a program which paid photographers NOT to take photographs, but it wasn't very successful. Turns out someone else was paying more for the photographs.
photomoof
08-17-2008, 13:19
my book is self published - but is a big exception to the norm of self publishing as Iwork for the publishing house - it cost me less than an outsider, it presented an easy opportunity and I'm willing to give away review copies, sell wholesale, etc
I agree working for free sucks --- you may have only seen one of my publish for credit photos (MAD magazine about 15 years ago) -- writers face the same challenges daily - there are no easy answers
There is a long tradition in NYC of artist self-published books, and there is a store to sell them in called Printed Matter. Some important work there.
http://printedmatter.org/
Roger Hicks
08-17-2008, 13:37
. . . Only that level of dedication, coupled with a bit of luck, and the right personality, can ever make you financially successful. . .
Dear Fred,
For a given value of 'financially successful', in this case defined as 'able to eat and keep a roof over your head.'
The only thing I'd add to your list is 'and a modest grasp on reality', i.e. not falling prey to 'Hey, I've got $100,000 -- I can squander the lot!'
I've met 'em. I'm more of the 'Hey, I've got $10,000, how do I make it last as long as possible and maybe earn me some money?'
From observation, the answer is NOT 'By buying equipment which will magically earn me money despite my demonstrated inability to earn money with the kit I already have'.
Cheers,
R.
Chriscrawfordphoto
08-17-2008, 15:12
There is a long tradition in NYC of artist self-published books, and there is a store to sell them in called Printed Matter. Some important work there.
http://printedmatter.org/
Fred,
Thanks for the link. I had never heard of that before! I can't afford to have a book printed now but I bookmarked that site for the day I do. Its something I have thought about for a long time.
photomoof
08-18-2008, 06:12
Fred,
Thanks for the link. I had never heard of that before! I can't afford to have a book printed now but I bookmarked that site for the day I do. Its something I have thought about for a long time.
The books they accept tend to be very personal, project type books, not overviews or catalogs of work.
The also accept hand-made books, printed at home, as long as you can supply the required amount.
Often the more personal the better. Much of what you do would certainly work for them.
Read the site to get a feel for who they are and what they do. If you have work there, you are in good company, some of the most famous artists in the world have shown books there.
thanks that's a great link
victoriapio
08-18-2008, 07:20
O.C. I got your PM and will write back tomorrow....I haven't had time to write a good response.
About the internet, it has actually been a boon to me. I have had a website for a long time but never got sales off it till the end of last year. I first set up the site 6 yrs ago when I didn't know much about web design and most of the photos didn't have alt tags describing the photos. Without that, Google wasn't finding them :(
I went through my large online collection starting last fall and finishing a couple months ago and wrote detailed ALT tags for every photo in my fine art area. People started emailing asking prices to use them on ads, CD covers for bands (all small 'local' bands...but still they were willing to pay!), etc. I even sold one to a restaurant in Sweden that wanted one to decorate with. The Swedish place was a Texas themed restaurant, and they used a landscape photo I made in Texas. I have not made a huge amount of money this year selling my work, a few thousand dollars total, but the sales seemed to come at times when I was so broke I couldn't buy food or pay my rent and they saved me.
I have dropped out of the 'art world' that Fred (photomoof) talks about. That world is parasitic and designed to make everyone but the artist rich. I got tired of enriching wealthy parasites while I starved. I still starve sometimes, but no one profits from my suffering anymore. The internet is my main sales strategy and the most successful method of showing and selling my work that i have ever used. I made more money in the first 6 months of this year selling my work than I did in the last 14 yrs combined! I'm still poor. My total income this year will likely be around $10,000. That's less than I made in New Mexico (where I got a lot of commercial photo and graphic design work that I NEVER get here in Indiana) but it is twice what I made the last year I lived in Indiana before I moved to NM back in early 2006.
If I can keep sales increasing, I will eventually do alright. I wish I could find the money to go back to the southwest and especially Texas. Those photos have been far and away my best sellers. My stuff from Indiana is what I consider my best work, but it rarely sells. No one wants it. I'd like to go spend a month in Texas just to build a bigger stock library of photos that will sell.
I am glad your photos are finding a market online Christopher. In a perfect world good art finds its own market. That obviously, is what is happening to your work :cool:. Because it is unique and real world photography, perhaps it makes perfectly good sense that with the work you put into the descriptions, good photo editors are finding you.
O.C.
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