A defense of gear lust [Archive] - Rangefinderforum.com

mabelsound

07-16-2008, 14:39

So I'm one of those people who is always buying and selling stuff, never being satisfied with anything, always wanting that one lens, camera, whatever that will do some vague super special thing. I don't spend exorbitant amounts of money, but it isn't unusual for me to buy something and sell it again a month later to get something else.

I did the same thing for music gear, starting around 2000. I eventually stopped, having found pretty much the perfect stuff in all categories. I suspect the same will happen eventually with camera gear.

But. In my view, this isn't by any means an unwise, let alone morally suspect tactic. The art I like to make in my free time--music and pictures--requires some form of technology to accomplish, and how I interact with that technology determines, in part, the kind of art I make. The pleasure of trying out a new guitar or microphone, or camera or lens, is intimiately connected to the process I use to make art, which is connected to the end result. The way I hold a camera--how I feel about the device, the quality of my relationship to it--affects the images I capture.

Furthermore, there is inherent value, in my view, to trying out as much stuff as possible (as long as your kids aren't going hungry in the process). Brilliant people have been performing amazing feats of engineering since photography began; to admire and enjoy their work is a compliment to their innovation, and an implicit celebration of photography itself.

It's often said that all that matters is the image. I'd certainly agree that the end product is the final word, and the thing that will remain when the artist is gone. But from the point of view of an artist (and I use that term loosely, to mean anyone who tries to make some art), the process is every bit as important as the product. In part, the process is the art work--the end product is merely the artifact it creates. To appreciate the process, and the tools that go into it, is to appreciate the whole art form.

Thus, gear lust good.

imajypsee

07-16-2008, 15:02

to defend your gear lust? I buy gear all the time and sure don't feel defensive about it...

Mary in SW Florida (owner of tons on Canon and Pentax DSLR and analog gear and LOTS of second and third hand film equipment)

35mmdelux

07-16-2008, 15:06

obssesive compulsive pyschosis.

Why not focus the pyschosis into taking snaps rather than accumulating gear? Two lenses - tele and wide and a nice Leica RF. Problem solved.

mabelsound

07-16-2008, 15:21

THAT'S why I'm on the defense, Mary ;-)

I don't disagree that I'm somewhat obsessive-compulsive, and pretty much hypomanic right across the board. I do get a hell of a lot done, though, and have great fun doing it.

And I take plenty of pictures!

ItsReallyDarren

07-16-2008, 16:49

Gear lust I believe is much safer and tamer than all those other 'lusts' out there, not to mention cheaper too! :D

back alley

07-16-2008, 16:53

obssesive compulsive pyschosis.

Why not focus the pyschosis into taking snaps rather than accumulating gear? Two lenses - tele and wide and a nice Leica RF. Problem solved.

i don't see that he SAID he was accumulating gear but rather buying and selling till he finds what's right for him.

back alley

07-16-2008, 16:56

i like the buy and sell approach also.
i can't afford to accumulate all that much gear but i like to try out stuff.
case in point, the zm 35/2.8 lens, with it i have found my main 35 mm lens after trying many many 35's.
what was the harm in buying and selling all those other 35's?

mabelsound

07-16-2008, 16:58

I'm accumulating a bit of gear. I have I think one screwmount body, one M-mount, a couple of Pentax film SLR's and a DSLR, and a few lenses for each of them. Also some smaller, fixed-lens cameras. Everything gets used.

But there's no point in having more than this stuff. There would be some point in upgrading some of it, though. If someday I could afford an M7, I'd replace my Bessa with it. And I wouldn't mind trading a few SLR primes for some Zeiss ones. I'm sure I'll buy and sell some more...

mabelsound

07-16-2008, 16:59

case in point, the zm 35/2.8 lens, with it i have found my main 35 mm lens after trying many many 35's.
what was the harm in buying and selling all those other 35's?

Perfect example...I like my Canon 35, but I'd upgrade to the Zeiss in a heartbeat...

noimmunity

07-16-2008, 17:04

I have gone through a similar process with backpacking gear, dialing in my kit to a minimum weight and simplicity. It is impossible to know what works best for oneself until you try many things out.

Cameras and lenses are really expensive, though, and having more can be a real hindrance in some ways. I keep thinking I will sell some lenses to simplify, but in actual practice I use different sets for different circumstances, each one having its place, and everything gets used. Compared to many people here, my equipment list is tiny.

Reading about/looking at photos from all the different lenses is likely to make one want to try all of them for oneself. It is better, I think, to focus that energy elsewhere...

Photography is a funny, contradictory art: on the one hand, it is very egalitarian. Virtually anybody can use a camera to make photos. On the other hand, it is also very elitist. The cost of the best equipment is prohibitively expensive for all but a niche group.

The thing that is really pointless are the interminable athletic debates over which lens is better and why. Although there are objective factors, there are also many many subjective factors involved, too.

noimmunity

07-16-2008, 17:07

case in point, the zm 35/2.8 lens, with it i have found my main 35 mm lens after trying many many 35's.
what was the harm in buying and selling all those other 35's?

that says it all!
i think the 35/2.8 is a keeper, too.

ferider

07-16-2008, 17:13

How are GAS and Sex related ?

Discuss ....

:)

ItsReallyDarren

07-16-2008, 17:32

How are GAS and Sex related ?

Discuss ....

:)

GAS has more resale value in the classifieds forum?

crawdiddy

07-16-2008, 17:46

Gear lust I believe is much safer and tamer than all those other 'lusts' out there, not to mention cheaper too! :D

Addiction is no laughing matter.

Even Hooked-On-Phonics is tragic in its own way. :(

Andrew Sowerby

07-16-2008, 18:49

Often when I think about buying some new gear I look through my Flickr account and ask, would a Summilux (or whatever) have made this picture any better? The answer is pretty much invariably "no". Sometimes that stops me from pulling the trigger on another purchase. Not always though ...

tbarker13

07-16-2008, 18:58

If that's one of the ways you enjoy the hobby, then by all means, enjoy it that way. I always cringe a little when I hear of someone buying gear just to collect it and never use it. But who cares if you like to try out lots of stuff?
I've been doing that pretty much non stop for the past 18 months, and I think I'm finally wearing down and settling on a kit of 5-6 lenses. Once I get the final pieces in place, it is my goal to put a 6-month moratorium on future purchases or sales.

back alley

07-16-2008, 19:03

for me it's not really about the 'better' lens or camera but the 'better for me' lens or camera.
same example, the 35/2.8 zm lens...it's smaller than the 35/2 and i prefer the feel of it so that makes it better for me, maybe not a better lens.
for my talent level i care more about the feel than the 'sharpness' of a lens, the way it handles and the experience of shooting is more important than the image. heresy? i don't think so, more like a realistic appraisal of my abilities. i'd rather enjoy the total experience.

hence the blue zi...

Todd.Hanz

07-16-2008, 19:18

I think as you eventually find the gear that most satisfies your lusts you'll become a shooter, opinions change.

Todd

Joe

07-16-2008, 19:49

Collecting is, according to Freud, a manifestation of castration anxiety.
Also, Freud's ideas about sexual fetishism are analogous, the primary drive being displaced onto secondary accoutrements. it's not the photograph that one desires but rather its function as validation for the fetish object, i.e. the camera.

bennyng

07-16-2008, 20:35

Gear lust I believe is much safer and tamer than all those other 'lusts' out there, not to mention cheaper too! :D

GAS has more resale value in the classifieds forum?

Really funny!!!

I just got into RF and it's indeed a confusing world. Obviously, quite a bit of GAS attack recently while finding my ideal combination of gear. However, as what the veterans here pointed out, I'm sure in a few months, things will cool down and sanity will be restored. I hope.

Cheers,

amateriat

07-16-2008, 22:15

Well, there's gear lust, and there's gear love...

I went through a decent amount of gear in the first decade of my getting "serious" about my own photography, although I spaced my system change-outs to every three years of so. Lots of SLR stuff, which is funny, because one of the cameras that was on the short list for my first "El Serioso" purchase, back in late '74-early '75, was a Leica M5; imagine all the metaphorical skirt-chasing that choice might've saved me! (Or so I like to think, anyway.)

But I've been "settled down" with my Hexars for six years now, with a small passel of fixed-lens cameras for lighter packing and the occasional desire for variety. I think my hardware lust has pretty much leveled off. My love of good gear, however, has never died.

amateriat

07-16-2008, 22:17

How are GAS and Sex related ?

Discuss ....

:)
Not me...the answer is likely to be as tricky as the question. :p

- Barrett

DEcevR

07-16-2008, 22:36

Gear lust is bad in itself with one hobby but for some (me) when you lust for gear in 4-5 different activities it is just plain insane :bang:

Especially, on retirement .........

Another retiree and myself were just talking about GAS today at the skeet range just before we left to go to the gun shop :bang:

Roger Hicks

07-17-2008, 01:34

How about a distinction between lust and curiosity? The parallels with sex are exact.

Many young men (and, I'm told, many young women) are consumed with sexual curiosity; they'll try just about anything, with just about anyone, often several times in order to make sure.

Once they've tried it, they realize that some of it, they don't care for; that some bits are better than others; and that there's quite a lot to be said for consensus opinions, provided they're reasonably broad minded.

Quite unlike cameras, then...

Cheers,

R.

yanidel

07-17-2008, 01:45

How are GAS and Sex related ?

Discuss ....

:)
With gear, you can resell it !
When you have found your other one, you can't resell it, you eventually will have to pay to have it go ... :)

Keith

07-17-2008, 01:48

mabelsound

07-17-2008, 04:00

How about a distinction between lust and curiosity? The parallels with sex are exact.

Many young men (and, I'm told, many young women) are consumed with sexual curiosity; they'll try just about anything, with just about anyone, often several times in order to make sure.

Ha! I don't know if I'm a young man anymore, but I'm afraid I'm the same way about sex. Except I never act on it, because I'm happily married. Maybe I'm channeling it all into gear.

Or maybe Joe and his compadre Freud are right, and it's all castration anxiety.

HuubL

07-17-2008, 04:50

HuubL

07-17-2008, 05:00

There is no defence for gear lust ... only acceptance! Just when you think you've controlled the urge to buy more cameras than you need or can ever use regularly ... lens lust hits! I find myself wanting lenses more these days.

I recently bought a beautiful 1.4 50mm Nikkor ... it happened to have an immaculate Nikon S2 Black Dial attached to it unfortunately but I recalibrated my values and accepted the compromise! :p

Exactly like I did yesterday. There was this lovely J9 for sale. After reading all the good things about this lens here on RFF, I bought it. The fact that its lens cap was a nice chrome 3-lug M5 couldn't stop me.

kevin m

07-17-2008, 05:12

Chrome, black paint, vulcanite, leather, brass....what's not to like? :D

Dektol Dan

07-17-2008, 10:27

[quote=noimmunity;857977]I have gone through a similar process with backpacking gear, dialing in my kit to a minimum weight and simplicity. It is impossible to know what works best for oneself until you try many things out.

I'm with you. Whether it be winding through crowds on a street, crossing a stream rock by rock, or covering events, I want small and light. A DSLR is out of the question. I'm using my IIIf with a Summaron more and more. You need good gear for sure, but you need utility as well.

As far as guitars go. I bought three last month, a 335, a Tele, and a Parker Fly. The guilt won't quit and I'll keep them all until I get strapped. Must be the artist in me.

mabelsound

07-17-2008, 10:44

As far as guitars go. I bought three last month, a 335, a Tele, and a Parker Fly. The guilt won't quit and I'll keep them all until I get strapped. Must be the artist in me.

That's a nice diverse stable right there. My last one is a goldtop Tokai Love Rock. Awesome.

I really like my DSLR, especially for macro and tele. But I would love, love, love an affordable digital RF to supplement the film ones. That's probably the one additional thing I would really dig.

imajypsee

07-17-2008, 11:18

Way back when I was a young mother my (now) ex husband traded a car we didn't use for a Mamiya Sekor 500DTL; prior to that I used a Minolta RF my dad gave me and box cameras, a kodak instamatic... that SLR came with one 55mm lens and that's all I had and could afford. When the meter went bad on the 500DTL I went to a hardbody polaroid and the instamatics and a Yashica Autofocus S (a really good camera, but no low light without flash) and then one day my budget got better and I bought some Pentax gear and a few lenses and used them til Canon came out with the 300D with lens for less than a grand. By now my kids are grown, I've divorced the ex and my budget is good....more lenses, more Canon digital bodies... gave away all the analog gear... more Canon bodies, a Pentax DSLR and... one day I was bored and it was HOT out for weeks so I started scanning my old negatives and found my old stuff was pretty interesting... so I bought a Mamiya Sekor 1000DTL with 55 f/1.4 lens and some other stuff and, since I have a good income and I CAN, I just decided to try out as much stuff as I want.
I truly don't get why buying stuff to mess around with it is anyone's business buy your own. My "obsession" is what keeps my brain sharp and my life interesting.

Mary in SW Florida
Canon: 5D;40D;30D;20D;300D;16-35L;400L;80-200L;100f/2.8;85f/1.8;50f/1.4;28f/1.8;20f/2.8;28-135IS;
Pentax: K10D and kit lens; 50f/1.4; various M42 lenses and Kmount lenses
Mamiya-Sekor 1000DTL; RB67;Pentax Spotmatic;Leicaflex SL; Canon QLGlll 17;Vivitar35ES; Ricoh Diacord;Mamiya SIX folder; Polaroids; Kodak duaflexes; Welta Weltax; Zorki4, Fed3b, BessaR...probably more :cool:

Roger Hicks

07-17-2008, 11:29

Ha! I don't know if I'm a young man anymore, but I'm afraid I'm the same way about sex. Except I never act on it, because I'm happily married.

That was my point, really. You're happier married than you would be screwing around. Otherwise, why would you stick with marriage?

Well, all right, there's less opportunity as you get older, and possibly a bit more consideration for the people you'd be screwing around with. But even so, I'd still consider the parallel to be pretty close. From time to time, of course I fancy new gear. But basically, I'm happier sticking with the Leicas I have (and occasionally adding to them), than I would be if I were endlessly buying and selling cameras.

I'd rather have my wife than a string of girlfriends, and I'd rather have the Leicas than a new DSLR every year, or 40 different FSU cameras and associated lenses, each of which cost very little, but which would have allowed their owner to buy a decent Leica outfit if he hadn't frittered his money away on 'bargains'.

Mind you, that's because I'm more interested in taking pictures than accumulating gear. Camera collecting is a perfectly understandable hobby, but it is only tangentially related to photography.

Cheers,

R.

imajypsee

07-17-2008, 12:45

photophorous

07-17-2008, 14:32

I always say, "whatever floats your boat." My boat, however, is sinking because it's weighted down with irresistably cheap Minolta SLR gear.

FallisPhoto

07-17-2008, 14:52

Somehow, it never occurred to me that I need to justify my GAS. After a few seconds thought though, it still doesn't.

Keith

07-17-2008, 15:50

Exactly like I did yesterday. There was this lovely J9 for sale. After reading all the good things about this lens here on RFF, I bought it. The fact that its lens cap was a nice chrome 3-lug M5 couldn't stop me.

I'm so glad you understand the dillema ... we all know how hard it is to get a decent rear lens cap for a Nikon rangefinder lens ... or a J9 for that matter! :p

Andrew Sowerby

07-17-2008, 17:04

Doug

07-17-2008, 17:11

Mabelsound, I think your initial statement in defense of gear lust is very nicely said! The difference with me is that I'm not good at selling stuff, so it just accumulates. In compensation, though, I'm very careful in the shopping side of things.

hiorgos

07-17-2008, 17:24

I used nikon for the last years, mostly second hand gear. And I found that, after some months/years of use, I can sell any nikon lens for quite the same price that i paid for it. It's more affordable than rental!. Last month I sold all my nikon gear to buy the zeiss ikon, which in other way I wouldn't be able to afford.

But the dangerous thing is to become a collector, more interested in gear than in taking pictures..

Roger Hicks

07-17-2008, 23:29

I take your words that folks who accumulate gear are in any way less interested in the making of photographs/photography. You seem to be saying that.

Mary in SW Florida (I have over 4000 photos online, so I think I'm accurate when I say I'm interested in photography.)

Dear Mary,

I can see how you might think that, but it's not what I was saying. I've got lots of cameras too -- but collecting cameras is completely separate from taking photographs. I have plenty of friends who are photographers; quite a few who collect cameras; and a fair number who do both.

My point was simply that although I have lots of cameras -- it could hardly be otherwise, given what I do for a living -- I'm more interested in taking pictures than in acquiring cameras.

Indeed, I now restrict the number of cameras that I review for the magazines, simply because endlessly playing with new kit actually gets in the way of my photography.

To some, it might seem like paradise: access to pretty much any new camera I want to try, AND getting paid to write about them. But as I get older, I know that there are more and more cameras (and lenses, and other bits of equipment) that will almost certainly get in the way of other things I want to do -- including taking pictures.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Cheers,

Roger

newspaperguy

07-18-2008, 04:13

Well said Sir. Those of us who have succumed to GAS,
even for a limited time, recognize the truth of which you speak.

And yes, 'frittered' is an accurate description.

mike goldberg

07-19-2008, 06:44

Roger Hicks

07-19-2008, 07:17

I found myself becoming a "Collector," and have sold off a lot of RF gear in recent months. From the few RF's that I have left, the Bessa R is the favorite. Like many here, I like RF for 50mm and W/A, and SLR or dSLR for tele.
Dear Mike,

That's what I did too -- a third of a century ago! I've owned most screw Leicas, and handled at some length almost all the ones I haven't owned (FF/GG 250s, 72, Compur, MOOLY-equipped bodies...) I had stereo kit; a unique 'fat barrel' 9cm with a serial number with both a and * suffixes; countless finders including AUFSU and VIDEO (or was it VISUR? VIFUR? VISOR? I've forgotten); SCNOO; Lufwaffe gear; copies (including Reids); and more, including a 5-lens Foca outfit, complete Kiev and Zorkii outfits including a 2cm f/5.6 FSU (a rotten lens, but a good finder), Canons, Yashicas, Niccas.... I knew several of the major collectors of those days, when there was a LOT more stuff in the woodwork.

This is why I can say with some confidence that camera collecting and photography are not necessarily related. There are people who do both, but I found that collecting got in the way of the photography.

Collecting also sucked up a lot of money I could have spend on better 'user' cameras or on travelling to take pictures. Now I collect a lot less -- I'd be surprised if I spend 500 euros/$800 a year on non-user kit -- and I travel and shoot a lot more.

Cheers,

R.

aniMal

08-05-2008, 13:46

Years ago I worked my way through Pentax and Canon - before landing safely on Leica M. It also took a while to forget about all the rest of gear it could still try out, and from then on concentrate on the image for a period. Then the really good images started coming in...

I then spent some years as a therapist, actually selling ALL of the gear... Never thought that would happen at all!

Now I have been working professionally for a year and a half again. The strange thing is that I have somehow been forced through the same process again, especially when it comes to digital. Fortunately I havent had to buy & sell as much as before, but just researching and testing options is actually quite some work!

I now feel I have a good combination of DSLRs (that I continously want to trade for an M8 nr.2), an M8/R2A/L combination that is just great - and a full set of old Mamiya RZ67.

I am quite happy with how it is, but would add some really good glass for my Nikon DSLRs if I need it to get jobs. I will try to add a second M8 anyway, and feel that I would really benefit from using a Mamiya 7 sometimes...

I hope that is it! The M and maybe Mamiya gear is what I would choose personally, and the Nikon DSLRs are acceptable to get cash in - although I do not enjoy them...

I guess this is a job that a serious photographer has to go throught - either in search for a style, or for a particular project. I travel a lot to Budapest these days, and would really like to test out a good film-based panorama camera there. If there was money in that particular project I would buy one off the shelf... The strange thing is that I might not like the camera itself, and might sell it off as soon as I feel I have done a decent project with it...

So, I guess it is about getting the right tools - and then forgetting about the tools themselves... Hard sometimes, though!

btgc

08-05-2008, 14:08

"meet the GAS and watch for mail"

ruben

08-06-2008, 12:27

........It's often said that all that matters is the image. I'd certainly agree that the end product is the final word, and the thing that will remain when the artist is gone. But................

I have to strongly disagree with the abovequoted paragraph,

..............The pleasure of trying out a new guitar or microphone, or camera or lens, is intimiately connected to the process I use to make art, which is connected to the end result. The way I hold a camera--how I feel about the device, the quality of my relationship to it--affects the images I capture........

while I agree very much here above,

.... But from the point of view of an artist (and I use that term loosely, to mean anyone who tries to make some art), ......
.

And here above, are encapsulated the key questions to start with:

Who is an Artist and who is just a talented person ?

Should being a talented person and not an Artist be frustrating, or perhaps an advantage to be considered ?

Is the end result, the final image, what matters most in the whole photographic world ?

Is creativity limited to the formal departments of reckognized Arts, or can it be developed far beyond these areas ?

How can we be satisfyed with our own creations provided we do not belong to the Artists ?

Cheers,
Ruben