View Full Version : Some tasty little extras with your Leica upgrade!
"New date for start of LEICA M8 Upgrade Service
Starting on October 1, 2008 Leica USA will begin its previously announced Leica M8 Upgrade Service. To insure the quickest possible turnaround time, we encourage all Leica M8 owners to schedule their upgrade in advance, beginning on August 1, 2008. As an added incentive, all Leica upgrades for the silent shutter and/or sapphire LCD cover glass scheduled from August 1, to October 15, 2008 and completed by January 31, 2009 will receive a free $150 Leica voucher that can be used toward the purchase of any new serialized Leica product from an authorized North American Leica dealer. Additional upgrade options include a personal or signature engraving on the top plate and installing a Vulcanite leatherette body covering.
For full details and to schedule an upgrade, please contact your authorized Leica dealer or call Leica USA"
http://us.leica-camera.com/news/news/1/5861.html?mid=377
[signature engraving on the top plate] ... what a way to deface a camera ... anyone who'd take this option is definitely a candidate for the men in white coats IMHO. I don't know about you but my signature looks like a spider fell into a pot of ink and got dropped on the paper! :p
$330 USA for the leatherette body covering. I can have my own body covered, or stripped for less.
fdigital
07-14-2008, 17:07
If I were an insanely good photographer buying an MP for the next few decades use, my signature on the top plate would be pretty damn cool. On the m8, which is the kind of camera I would keep for a few years and then upgrade to the next, all it does is affect resale value.
$330 USA for the leatherette body covering. I can have my own body covered, or stripped for less.
The signature engraving is outrageous at $425.00. While the camera is apart for the shutter upgrade etc a scan of your signature will be fed into one of the many CNC machines they would have which will engrave it into your top cover in minutes ... seconds even!
I almost gagged when I read that option ... not because I think it's ridiculous to have your signature on your camera but because they want $425.00 to do it! When you look at the price of the full upgrade you'd think the company would offer to throw something like this in with the deal as a sweetener ... but oh no ... they give you a useless $150.00 voucher which will buy you absolutely nothing until you add another few grand to it!
I really like my M8 ... but I just wish it wasn't made by a company that has it's head firmly inserted where the sun never shines! :rolleyes:
Vulcanite leatherette body covering? I thought Vulcanite was no longer available. Has it been re-introduced? Or is it a faux Vulcanite?
breathstealer
07-14-2008, 19:18
Vulcanite leatherette body covering? I thought Vulcanite was no longer available. Has it been re-introduced? Or is it a faux Vulcanite?
As far as I can tell all Leica body coverings are referred to as "vulcanite" in their marketing material.
Ah, Leica my Leica, where did you go wrong? :)
I believe it was with the M5!
I believe it was with the M5!
I assume you refer to the theory that Leica decided innovation was dangerous after buyer resistance to the M5 ... far safer to stick with the staus quo and just make the stuff as expensive as all hell! :p
The signature engraving is outrageous at $425.00. While the camera is apart for the shutter upgrade etc a scan of your signature will be fed into one of the many CNC machines they would have which will engrave it into your top cover in minutes ... seconds even!
They don't have such a machine for this. It is individually engraved on a surprisingly simple engraving machine. -It is an extra for those who wish this - Nobody is forcing you to hand over your money at gunpoint. If you find it too expensive simply don't do it. Why all the vitriol?:confused:
They don't have such a machine for this. It is individually engraved on a surprisingly simple engraving machine. -It is an extra for those who wish this - Nobody is forcing you to hand over your money at gunpoint. If you find it too expensive simply don't do it. Why all the vitriol?:confused:
More information jaapv ... how do you know they do it this way, I'm curious?
Surely if you give them a copy of your signature there isn't some little German engraver who painstakingly copies your signature with an engraving tool is there? If so he could make a fortune as a forger! :p
xthunder
07-14-2008, 23:45
I was in S. Korea last month for a vacation and when I visited Leica Dealer in Seoul and talked to the service department, they were performing vulcanite replacements for FREE for the M8s that were sold by them.
I agree with jaapv; why the fussing? If you don't want the so-called upgrades then it doesn't affect you. If you do want one or more option, that's cool... unless you object to the price I guess.:rolleyes:
I agree with jaapv; why the fussing? If you don't want the so-called upgrades then it doesn't affect you. If you do want one or more option, that's cool... unless you object to the price I guess.:rolleyes:
I have no problem with their upgrade program ... if I thought I needed it I'd happily do it. The signature engraving for $400.00 plus and the leatherette for $300.00 plus aren't the actions of a company that's serious about wanting to produce the best photographic equipment any more IMHO.
As we say though of course ... your milage may vary! :p
They just reuse their existing a la carte capacity, that's all. Blame Hermes :)
And mind you, engraving your signature would involve either stripping/dechroming original cover or using a new one, AND chroming/painting it again afterwards. Since it's essentially one-off job it requires intervention in a streamlined cover-production process. So how do you think, what would be the fair price for doing that in Germany? :)
More information jaapv ... how do you know they do it this way, I'm curious?
Surely if you give them a copy of your signature there isn't some little German engraver who painstakingly copies your signature with an engraving tool is there? If so he could make a fortune as a forger! :p
Because I was shown the machine in Solms and the process was explained to me. I would call outsourcing it to somebody else not a forgery - just a little bit unwise as removing the top cover would surely void the guarantee.
They just reuse their existing a la carte capacity, that's all. Blame Hermes :)
No they don't. They have been doing this on customer request since 1928
So when they engrave your signature into the cover they strip and repaint or re-anodise it? This gets more complex all the time!
You have no idea of the small scale of the factory. In the USA it would be the size of a largish car repair shop. I doubt there are more than 150-200 persons involved in the actual production of the whole product line in Solms , lenses, cameras,binoculars and spotting scopes. Machines there are tools, not robots. The total number of employees in Solms is just over 400. The most automated part is the Summarit line, which consists of five computer-driven lens polishing machines. The lens-mount workshop has a few cad-cam units too. At a guess 80% of the work is done wholly by hand, including selecting and assembling the lens mount parts, measuring and assembling the lens elements, even the painting black of the edges of each lens element is done by three ladies using a brush and a little jar of matte black paint.
Roger Hicks
07-15-2008, 02:57
At Arles I suggested to Stefan Daniel of Leica that the top plate of the M8 looked a bit bare and that they should engrave the classic 'Leica' script on it. They said, 'No problem -- that can be done as a service'. He reckoned it should cost well under 200 euros. I'd certainly prefer that to my signature!
Cheers,
R.
Hi Roger! Home again? :)
I had the classic Leica Logo + my name done for 270 Euro including VAT and return postage last year. I don't think the actual contents of the engraving make any price difference.
Roger Hicks
07-15-2008, 03:12
Hi Roger! Home again? :)
Dear Jaap,
Yup. I'd left it too late to book into my usual hotel and ended up in one that was nearly three times the price -- hence the curtailed trip!
I had the distinct impression that just the Leica logo was cheaper; adding your name would bump it up. But I may be wrong.
I've long wondered about having 'RWH Eigentum' engraved on a Leica -- the only distinguishing mark, apparently, of Eisenhower's M2 was 'DDE Eigentum'
Cheers,
R.
You have to understand though that most people read all this and think "my M7 (or my backup camera, my lens or whatever,) has been sitting in their factory for six months for repair because Leica would prefer to invest technician time and resources into making someones camera into man jewelery."
Honestly, what people do with their money is their business. I don't care as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. I do care when I have to send my lens back to Germany three times for one simple repair to be done properly, or have three M8's delivered to me faulty because of shoddy quality control. For most consumers, they want a reliable and professionally made tool. Goodness knows they pay enough for it. Scrap that a la carte stuff, put the people in it's production line to work in an area more fitting with their bread and butter customers.
jaapv You have no idea of the small scale of the factory. In the USA it would be the size of a largish car repair shop. I doubt there are more than 150-200 persons involved in the actual production of the whole product line in Solms , lenses, cameras,binoculars and spotting scopes. Machines there are tools, not robots. The total number of employees in Solms is just over 400. The most automated part is the Summarit line, which consists of five computer-driven lens polishing machines. The lens-mount workshop has a few cad-cam units too. At a guess 80% of the work is done wholly by hand, including selecting and assembling the lens mount parts, measuring and assembling the lens elements, even the painting black of the edges of each lens element is done by three ladies using a brush and a little jar of matte black paint.
Maybe they don't like you? :p I sent a lens in for CLA and got it back in 7 days last week. Door to door. And customer service and repair is a totally different department. Different building even. I don't think I would trust an engraver to work on the innards of my M8 either. Your seems a bit simplistic. Scaling down in other deparments is not going to help customer service. There are giant strides being made there, it seems. Leica has been totally overwhelmed by the succes of the M8 and the attendant jump in lens orders. The order backlog in lenses in the beginning of this year was 8000. Never before has that happened.
Roger Hicks
07-15-2008, 04:52
. . . customer service and repair is a totally different department. Different building even.
Quite a long way away, in fact.
Besides, three things strike me here.
First, what's wrong with 'man jewellery' if it helps keep Leica in business?
Second, à la carte isn't just about jewellery. It's about rewinds (crank/knob), viewfinder magnifications, viewfinder frame sets... They dropped the multiple magnification options because dealers had to carry too much stock (three versions of each camera). The alternative to à la carte is 'one size fits all'.
Third, if Leicas are that bad, why do people keep buying them? Often for decades on end? I bought my first second-hand Leica in about 1970 and last week Frances bought a new 50/2.5 Summarit to put on her M2. When/if we can afford it, she wants an MP with M2 framelines...
Cheers,
Roger
sepiareverb
07-15-2008, 05:05
...à la carte isn't just about jewellery. It's about rewinds (crank/knob), viewfinder magnifications, viewfinder frame sets... They dropped the multiple magnification options because dealers had to carry too much stock (three versions of each camera). The alternative to à la carte is 'one size fits all'...
Precisely. I for one think this is a great option for getting a camera that fits your needs. My .58 MP with angled rewind is exactly right for a lot of what I shoot- with the very wide lenses & viewfinders the straight rewind knob was a bit of a pain for my hands.* Sure, à la carte isn't right for everyone, and I doubt that there is any sizable percentage of cameras built this way, but the fact that Leica is willing to take advantage of their 'low-tech' production line to offer a wider but less popular set of options is, in my book, a great thing.
*And no, I don't want to hear the chorus of "why didn't you get an M6":bang:
Roger Hicks
07-15-2008, 05:14
*And no, I don't want to hear the chorus of "why didn't you get an M6":bang:
You don't want no stinkin' modern Leicas; you want an M3. Real men don't use wide-angles, just 50mm lenses...
(15 paragraphs of ranting drivel omitted here)
...and besides, 50-year-old Canons are better than new Leicas anyway.
Cheers,
R.
mr_phillip
07-15-2008, 05:45
My favourite thing about the Leica a la carte programme is that I can use the online configurator to indulge my juvenile fantasies without it costing me a penny. Then I can go out and shoot a few rolls with my M2 and remember why I don't actually need anything else.
Roger Hicks
07-15-2008, 06:09
Watch out Canon and Nikon, Leica sold 20,000 M8's. Some of them several times. :p
Watch out Ford: Rolls Royce sell cars too. Watch out Nike: Lobb sell shoes. Watch out McDonald's: there are still quite a lot of Michelin-starred restaurants. Watch out apple sellers: peple can buy oranges too.
And your point was?
Cheers,
R.
I wonder if LEICA would object to someone wanting to engrave "PANASONIC" on it :D
One of the problems I have Roger is that there is no entrenched loyalty on my part to Leica ... I have no history with them or photography in general for that matter, and hadn't heard of or seen a Leica until a couple of years ago. They (the company) mean little more to me than Canon Nikon Zeiss Olympus Rollie or any other manufacturer but I do like the product ... the camera with the name Leica on it I mean and consequently I own several!
The company (Leica) however does not have my respect or admiration currently ... but I'm sure they can live without it! :p
I do respect your opinions however! :)
...oh and as a feedback to the discussions abou tthe LEICa factory..here it a "tour" some may find interesting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mwrlb4_tL0&feature=related
Roger Hicks
07-15-2008, 08:18
Roger, with "success" like the M8, can Leica survive? We'll see how many M8 owners will be willing to "upgrade" their $5,000 camera with a $2,000 shutter, and still have a $7,000 used camera.
You certainly chose an appropriate name, with your endless sniping at Leica. What do you get out of it?
Those of us who use Leicas, and like them, and spend our own money on them, hope they'll stay in business. Do you hope they're going to go bust? Or do you think you can run the company better than Dr. Kaufmann? The former is simply mean-spirited; as for the latter, well, go buy the company.
Cheers,
R.
Gabriel M.A.
07-15-2008, 08:28
I agree with jaapv; why the fussing?
Because it's Leica. Vitriol magnet.
Roger, with "success" like the M8, can Leica survive? We'll see how many M8 owners will be willing to "upgrade" their $5,000 camera with a $2,000 shutter, and still have a $7,000 used camera.
I know a few. I would say about 15 %. time will tell. I do not think Leica needs the upgrade for their business result.
I do not quite understand this harping on dollars. Many of those complaining will go into a car dealership, buy a new 35.000$ car and drop 5000$ in writeoff in the first mile....:rolleyes: It may sound snobbish, but is certainly not meant that way: if the price of a Leica is too high for one's budget, surely it is wiser to buy another camera and be happy with that?
Roger Hicks
07-15-2008, 11:13
It may sound snobbish, but is certainly not meant that way: if the price of a Leica is too high for one's budget, surely it is wiser to buy another camera and be happy with that?
Dear Jaap,
I am always intrigued by the number of people who say, "I could afford a ________ if I wanted one, but it's overpriced."
If you don't want one, it's overpriced at any price.
If you do want one, either you can afford it or you can't.
Kidding yourself that you could afford if if you really wanted it is evidence of two possibilities. Either you don't want it, or you can't afford it.
Cheers,
R.
Dear Roger,
It is all so simple: If you have to live in a 100.000 Euro house a Leica system is too expensive. If you can live in a 1.000.000 Euro house, it is just pocket money. As I fall in neither category, it is expensive, but worth it. But don't blame Leica for the inequities of society.:rolleyes:
Roger Hicks
07-15-2008, 13:33
While I think that M8's are extremely overrated as digital cameras . . .I am afraid, though, that people who really can't afford them or who would be better served by a different camera buy them because of the mystique of the brand and the internet hype that it's the finest digital camera ever built.
Overrated compared with all the other interchangeable-lens digital rangefinder cameras on the market?
How to you define 'better served'? If M8 buyers believed that, they'd buy something else.
Finally, what 'internet hype'? The faults of the M8 are well known and widely acknowledged, even by Leica. I'd say the exact opposite: the fact that they're selling quite well for a luxury camera, despite the unrelenting negativity that is pumped out over the internet by you and others, suggests that they can survive a remarkable tide of bile, envy, and ignorance. I do not accuse you of any of these, because I don't know why you're so anti-Leica, but there is plenty of all three about.
Cheers,
R.
Active photographers have found that the quality and robustness like rewind mechanisms are not there. The only option short of re-designing from the ground up is to sell as jewelry to low use and/or shelf collectors.
They should stick with optics, and sell the camera body business to Panasonic or someone.
Active photographers have found that the quality and robustness like rewind mechanisms are not there. The only option short of re-designing from the ground up is to sell as jewelry to low use and/or shelf collectors.
They should stick with optics, and sell the camera body business to Panasonic or someone.
What blathering nonsense. My M8's have been dragged through Africa - and not on pampered tourist trips- sailed in a wet boat through salty and moist Carribean waters, went skiing in my backpocket, get covered in sand and water on a regular basis - and have been running without a hitch for nearly two years and over 20.000 exposures now. What type of "active photographer "are you? I've seen your cats -nice and excellent shots btw- but these are mine: M8 - and hiking in Kafue NP, Zambia
http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/5/0/cubs.jpg
This is with the Visoflex and 1.9 Kg's of lens hung onto that "jewelry"
My R cameras needed a service and bending straight each year - M cameras, the M8 included are more robust than that.
Gabriel M.A.
07-15-2008, 16:28
I wonder what the percentage is of those who b*tch about the M8 actually own and use one.
I wonder what the percentage is of those who b*tch about the M8 actually own and use one.
I own one, use and like it. My 'bitching' was aimed at the company not the product. My original post was slagging Leica/Solms ... not the camera.
Stay on topic please sir! :p :p
Gabriel M.A.
07-15-2008, 16:41
I own one, use and like it. My 'bitching' was aimed at the company not the product. My original post was slagging Leica/Solms ... not the camera.
Stay on topic please sir! :p :p
Some tasty little extras with your Leica upgrade
I thought the topic was sarcasm. What is it, then?
I thought the topic was sarcasm. What is it, then?
Yes you are very perceptive ... sarcasm, irony, with a touch of facetiousness thrown in for good measure!
In reality though they are the tools not the topic ... no?
Gabriel M.A.
07-15-2008, 16:59
So, should I use a #1 Sarcastocator with a metric jab or a Philips Screwdriver to drive a torqueless point?
So, should I use a #1 Sarcastocator with a metric jab or a Philips Screwdriver to drive a torqueless point?
You've confused me now Gabriel ... I'm off to check out Joe's 'Blue Ikon' thread! :p
ciao
They look like stills from "Meerkat Manor".
Your M8 could not catch my cat in action chasing his toy mouse. But then again, no RF could, unless simply a matter of luck. The cat is much quicker than these basking animals in a controlled environment (I would hope).
What blathering nonsense. My M8's have been dragged through Africa - and not on pampered tourist trips- sailed in a wet boat through salty and moist Carribean waters, went skiing in my backpocket, get covered in sand and water on a regular basis - and have been running without a hitch for nearly two years and over 20.000 exposures now. What type of "active photographer "are you? I've seen your cats -nice and excellent shots btw- but these are mine: M8 - and hiking in Kafue NP, Zambia
http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/5/0/cubs.jpg
This is with the Visoflex and 1.9 Kg's of lens hung onto that "jewelry"
My R cameras needed a service and bending straight each year - M cameras, the M8 included are more robust than that.
Nothing controlled, in the wild,my friend...I was hiding in a gully, and these kids were playing catch, not basking....
I suggest you update your zoological knowledge. There are two types of Meerkats, one a family of Monkeys, the other Suricates, none has anything to do with cats...
Roger Hicks
07-16-2008, 03:57
Active photographers have found that the quality and robustness like rewind mechanisms are not there. The only option short of re-designing from the ground up is to sell as jewelry to low use and/or shelf collectors.
They should stick with optics, and sell the camera body business to Panasonic or someone.
From the above, you are clearly a much-published professional photographer who uses his Leicas heavily, so perhaps you would be kind enough to point us to some of your book and magazine credits as well as your blog.
My publication credits can be found on my site.
Cheers,
R.
I must say those boys at Leica are creative to generte some extra money.
How many wildlife photographers are using a Visoflex? Talking about handicapping yourself. Nice shot of the cats, by the way.:D:D
Not many, I would guess. The Visoflex is not that much of a handicap, though,it is surprisingly easy to use. But I must confess it has been replaced by a R9/DMR with telezoom this year.;)
Roger Hicks
07-16-2008, 04:29
Speaking of which, I enjoyed your article in the August Shutterbug on the Summarit lens line. Interesting the cost-cutting measures you describe that Leica used to create a "budget" lens.
Thank you. 'Budget' is of course a relative term. But Frances has just bought the 50/2.5 -- and I must say, having used it on loan from both Leica and her, I grow more and more impressed with it.
Cheers,
Roger
I am only intersted in taking photos for my own enjoyment, though I found a nice one for you and Jaapv below, of a rare Tigon, or is it Liger, masquerading as a "kittypet."
I have read and reviewed one of your books in my blog, and I see your articles in Shutterbug. Congratulations. Makes me want to go out and get all 4 Summarit Lenses!
http://matsumura.smugmug.com/photos/324463111_ELDKW-L.jpg
From the above, you are clearly a much-published professional photographer who uses his Leicas heavily, so perhaps you would be kind enough to point us to some of your book and magazine credits as well as your blog.
My publication credits can be found on my site.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
07-16-2008, 10:39
I am only intersted in taking photos for my own enjoyment, though I found a nice one for you and Jaapv below, of a rare Tigon, or is it Liger, masquerading as a "kittypet."
I have read and reviewed one of your books in my blog, and I see your articles in Shutterbug. Congratulations. Makes me want to go out and get all 4 Summarit Lenses!
Thanks for the kind words, and I apologize for the tone of my previous post, but how do you manage to wear out/damage your Leicas, if you're shooting for pleasure? Especially the rewind? I 'dinged' the rewind on my M4-P a few years ago in Slovenia, haviong used it without problems for around 20 years. I straightened it out in 30 seconds with a Leatherman, and have had no trouble from it since. That's the only rewind problem I've had in almost 40 years of using Leicas.
Cheers,
Roger
No problem at all. It's only happened to me twice, but one was on a relatively new M6 (probably under 50 rolls), and the 2nd on an M4-P of unknown history after about 20 rolls.
I shoot a lot of film, and change it very fast. I rewind as I have for the last 40 years with Nikons, Canons, Yashicas, Minoltas, etc., and they've never jammed. I actually don't rewind too fast (static) or hard, and from my research, and discussion with techs., it is a known issue of the washers getting tight and causing this jam around the 14th to 16th frame on M4s, and M6s, a couple of M7 reports. It is different from the corroded washers sometimes seen on the '50s M3s/M2s.
I could always carry a spare body, but I'd rather rely on a single reliable body.
I still love Leica stuff, just as I love '70s Porsches, but a mid '70s Porsche ('75-77 2.7l) 911 has a known issue of magnesium / alloy mismatch that all p-car owners know about and acknowledge. Somehow Leica owners just don't "drive" that much and/or don't want to acknowledge that there are weak spots.
Of course, this rewind issue does not affect the M8, but my opinion that an active photographer who uses a lot of film may not want to rely on a single Leica body. That is just my opinion. I'll let you know how the Bessas turn out if I go that route.
Also, never had a problem with a Hexar AF, or RF and always keep an extra battery or two with those.
Thanks for the kind words, and I apologize for the tone of my previous post, but how do you manage to wear out/damage your Leicas, if you're shooting for pleasure? Especially the rewind? I 'dinged' the rewind on my M4-P a few years ago in Slovenia, haviong used it without problems for around 20 years. I straightened it out in 30 seconds with a Leatherman, and have had no trouble from it since. That's the only rewind problem I've had in almost 40 years of using Leicas.
Cheers,
Roger
Jim Evidon
07-16-2008, 12:47
Ah, but you misss the point. This is engraving by LEICA, which probably means it is done by hand using specially trained elves that live in the Black Forest who belong to the engravers guild. I'm sure that their work is first rate. Frankly, I fail to see the point of such vanity being expended on any camera. A camera is just a tool, and in the case of the M8, a lovely tool, but one just the same. Vanity, vanity!
Jim Evidon
In HS, I had a part-time job in a ski shop that did engraving. I operated a machine that may be similar to what they are using. Something like the 2nd or 3rd one down here (http://www.shorinternational.com/EngravingEquipment.htm)- It was all mechanical, you assembled the script or lettering in a jig, and as you traced in the jig letters, a drill bit engraved the ski. I think the shop charged $5.00 for that service.
Ah, but you misss the point. This is engraving by LEICA, which probably means it is done by hand using specially trained elves that live in the Black Forest who belong to the engravers guild. I'm sure that their work is first rate. Frankly, I fail to see the point of such vanity being expended on any camera. A camera is just a tool, and in the case of the M8, a lovely tool, but one just the same. Vanity, vanity!
Jim Evidon
Vulcanite leatherette body covering? I thought Vulcanite was no longer available. Has it been re-introduced? Or is it a faux Vulcanite?
What in fact is vulcanite? Is it vulcanised rubber or is it, as Wikipedia says:
Vulcanite is a rare mineral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral) composed of the two elements Copper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper) and Tellurium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tellurium). It was approved by the International Mineral Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=International_Mineral_Association&action=edit&redlink=1) as a valid mineral in 1961. As of January 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_1), 2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008), it has only been found in one mine in the Western Hemisphere (Good Hope Mine (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Good_Hope_Mine&action=edit&redlink=1) Gunnison County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunnison_County),Colorado (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado) USA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA). Small deposits have also been discovered in Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan), Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia), Saudi Arabia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia), and Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway). The mineral has a metallic luster, and is a green or bronze-yellow shade. It has a hardness between 1 and 2 on the Moh's scale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moh%27s_scale) (between talc and gypsum). Its crystal structure is orthorhombic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthorhombic)
Wikipedia's version sounds rather exotic.
We'll see how many M8 owners will be willing to "upgrade" their $5,000 camera with a $2,000 shutter, and still have a $7,000 used camera.
If that were true I might upgrade mine. But I really doubt that the upgrade cost could be recouped at sale. Used M8's are going under $4000, and I wouldn't be surprised if a $1500 upgrade would only add maybe $500 to the resale price, the reason being that the extended warranty (a major key in the value of the upgrade) isn't transferable (at least not in the US).
My plans are to wait until closer to when my warranty expires (June 2009) before deciding on the upgrade. If Leica comes out with an M9 between now and then, I'd rather put the money forward into that than backward into the M8.
If that were true I might upgrade mine. But I really doubt that the upgrade cost could be recouped at sale. Used M8's are going under $4000, and I wouldn't be surprised if a $1500 upgrade would only add maybe $500 to the resale price, the reason being that the extended warranty (a major key in the value of the upgrade) isn't transferable (at least not in the US).
My plans are to wait until closer to when my warranty expires (June 2009) before deciding on the upgrade. If Leica comes out with an M9 between now and then, I'd rather put the money forward into that than backward into the M8.
I think it's quite notable that M8's are still fetching just under $4000.00 second hand. Considering it's close to two years since the release of the camera that's not bad by current standards of most consumer products these days ... that generally seem to lose a third of their value the instant you take them out of the box!
tmfabian
07-17-2008, 08:27
I don't know yet if i'm going to indulge in the vulcanite covering dealy...perhaps.
the shutter and lcd cover upgrades are definately going on my m8's.
The fact that it's an upgrade with a tuneup and an extended warranty is a sweet deal in my book.
If they come out with an m9 soon, guess what...my m8's won't get sold, they'll just hang out as backups and also as ways to extend my lens collection (by means of crop factor...2 efl's per lens)
edit: if they give the option for that ecological tanned cognac covering though it's on.
If that were true I might upgrade mine. But I really doubt that the upgrade cost could be recouped at sale. Used M8's are going under $4000, and I wouldn't be surprised if a $1500 upgrade would only add maybe $500 to the resale price, the reason being that the extended warranty (a major key in the value of the upgrade) isn't transferable (at least not in the US).
My plans are to wait until closer to when my warranty expires (June 2009) before deciding on the upgrade. If Leica comes out with an M9 between now and then, I'd rather put the money forward into that than backward into the M8.
But Benson, isn't it a bit silly to upgrade a camera one is considering for sale? The upgrade is meant to adapt the camera for those users that want the features
tmfabian
07-17-2008, 08:37
jaapv, i want to see some bigger pictures of your m8's, it looks pretty slick.
Sure - no problem. I hated the original plastic covering for lack of grip, so I wanted to recover in leather anyway. Well, if one can choose... The engraving, besides looking nice, is an additional theft deterrent. Btw, on this photo of the grey one I still had to push a bit of the edge of the leather flush.
I might add that the leather makes the cameras slightly more silent, add that to the running in of the shutter ( after 10000 actuations it is a lot quieter than new) and I have no need of the shutter upgrade, and it wears extremely well. The chrome is starting to get a real patina by now, but the leather is unmarked.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e32/jaapv/linked/m8grey.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e32/jaapv/jaapv2/greenm8.jpg
I can't understand why the don't make the noisy high-speed shutter the optional install for all new M8s? Isn't the noise a universally scorned aspect of the M8?
Roger Hicks
07-17-2008, 09:34
But Benson, isn't it a bit silly to upgrade a camera one is considering for sale? The upgrade is meant to adapt the camera for those users that want the features
This puzzled me, too. The twin-plug head conversion on my BMW certainly cost a lot more than it added to the value of the bike, and the new chassis for my 1972 Series III Land Rover cost more than I could get for the vehicle. But as I'm not planning on selling either, I don't care. Which is exactly the same reason why I'd consider getting 'Leica' engraved on the M8 top plate.
I have quite a lot of things made or customized. I'm still using a satchel I had made to my design when I was at university (A4 folders in the main compartment, 2x screw Leicas with collapsible lenses in the front compartment) and a couple of weeks ago I had the Held tank bag for my BMW modified to shorten the top compartment (it was bigger than I liked and obscured the clocks). In the days when I wore suits, I had them made to measure, but I haven't bought a suit since the 70s or worn one since the 80s.
If people want 'off the peg', that fine; and if they don't, that's fine too.
Edit: just seen your M8. I just moved a step closer to having the engraving done...
Cheers,
R.
I can't understand why the don't make the noisy high-speed shutter the optional install for all new M8s? Isn't the noise a universally scorned aspect of the M8?
No, not universally, but mostly on Internet forums, outside that arena it is considered a silent camera - it is a bit noisier than an M3, yes - it might be an embarrasment when shooting at a funeral - but when run in and in a camera case or protector it is inaudible at twenty feet. I like to shoot fast lenses wide open. At ISO 160 (=200) I need 1/8000th.
I think it's quite notable that M8's are still fetching just under $4000.00 second hand. Considering it's close to two years since the release of the camera that's not bad by current standards of most consumer products these days ... that generally seem to lose a third of their value the instant you take them out of the box!
Well, a used M8 @ $3900 is roughly 70% of the $5500 new price, so it's a little less than a third, but not that much less. Plus, the fact the price of a new M8 has risen $800 in the same 2 years of production is also unique among digital cameras...and might have something to do with why the the M8 seems--for those of us who paid the initial price--to be holding its resale value better than average. Another thing is the fact that with Leica, a replacement every 18-24 months isn't a given, otherwise if people could bank on an M9 at Photokina, I think you'd see the used prices of M8's lower.
No, not universally, but mostly on Internet forums, outside that arena it is considered a silent camera - it is a bit noisier than an M3, yes - it might be an embarrasment when shooting at a funeral - but when run in and in a camera case or protector it is inaudible at twenty feet. I like to shoot fast lenses wide open. At ISO 160 (=200) I need 1/8000th.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who does. And I'd be pretty embarrassed to shoot pictures at a funeral with my M4 too. It's quiet, but in complete silence everyone except the guy in the casket could hear it.
The shutter noise of my M8 doesn't bother me but nor does the sound of my OM-2 which is probably about the same volume interestingly.
I have a very early M3 which is out of the first few thousand produced that has the quietest shutter of any Leica I've owned by far ... it's a barely audible muted click and in a room with any type of noise I'm hard pressed hearing it myself. It mystifies me why it is so quiet ... my CLA'd M2 sounds quite loud by comparison and another M3 I owned and sold was a lot louder.
When the M9 or whatever does come there will have to be a hefty price hike I suspect and unless some financial miracle occurs the chances of my getting one are less than not much. However I would consider the upgrade in this situation ... mainly to give the camera a freshen up and have that renewed warranty for peace of mind. I sometimes wonder if I'll still have my M8 in ten years and will it still be functioning correctly ... with the upgrade option this is at least possible! When I bought the camera they were between six and a half and seven thousand dollars here in Oz and to sell it and watch $3500.00 fly away would be a sacrilige. I'd rather use it as the worlds most exclusive doorstop if it stops getting regular use! :p
tmfabian
07-17-2008, 21:26
When the M9 or whatever does come there will have to be a hefty price hike I suspect :p
See...for some reason I doubt there will be a "hefty" price hike on the m9 when it comes out.
The way I see it, leica will start (and has already) to slowly drop the price of the m8 while offering upgrades (making the total price the same as a new one 2 years ago) until the m9 comes out which will cost roughly the same as an m8 today or slightly more....i'm guessing between 5100 and 5500, which still places it in the pretty darned expensive category for most people, but not putting it in the holy god I have to sell my childrens kidneys to get one category.
On the note of the shutter getting quieter with age...i completely agree...in fact when i got my second m8, I set it to continuous mode, popped in a cable release and locked it down and let it fire off a full batteries worth of frames the night I brought it home just to break in the shutter.
here's even a comparison between my m7 and my m8 shutter sound i just made. In my sound editor the m8's initial shutter click is actually .2 db softer than my m7's...it's the winding noise that blows.
http://www.zshare.net/audio/1551446363665682/
But, on my well-run in M8's the winding sound seems less than the initial click. Can you put a complete M8 shuttersound online as well? (but keep this one, it is instructive.
tmfabian
07-18-2008, 05:08
But, on my well-run in M8's the winding sound seems less than the initial click. Can you put a complete M8 shuttersound online as well? (but keep this one, it is instructive.
sure
here's the m8 shutter all by it's lonesome
http://www.zshare.net/audio/15531062ac1db44b/
and the m7's all by it's lonesome for giggles
http://www.zshare.net/audio/15531100d0bb6dd0/
Also, i must apologize, I didn't realize that the site i hosted these on (just some random file hosting site i could find late night and quick) has some NSFW adverts on it.
No matter, I've already won four Audi A3-s :D
tmfabian
07-18-2008, 07:28
No matter, I've already won four Audi A3-s :D
haha
Yeah, I usually use a plugin to disable all adverts, and thus I didn't notice them on my main computer, It's actually kind of rough finding a site that will host audio files....it's bizarre.
Pherdinand
07-18-2008, 08:07
Active photographers have found that the quality and robustness like rewind mechanisms are not there.
hehe, this is a good one :D
the robust rewind mechanism was - how annoying - completely forgotten from the M8!!
:D
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