Electrolytic chrome removal?

[rxmd]

Hi,

there must have been a thread on electrolytic chrome removal for repainting cameras somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. Does anyone have experience with the following:

- electrolytic processes that strip both chrome and nickel,

and

- electrolytic processes that strip *only* the chrome, but leave the nickel in place for easier repainting?

The electrolytic approach seems to be the easiest and most thorough to me that doesn't involve mucking around with acids.

Philipp

[Brian Sweeney]

I've never done it myself, but Modern Photography had a short write-up on it decades ago. They produced a Black paint Contax II using this process. As I understand it, this process will not work on all chrome plating if it has been treated afterwards. Worth some experimenting with.

[radiocemetery]

I stripped the chrome from the top and bottom plates of an Olympus 35RC using reverse plating. For a "tank" I used a 2 gallon plastic bucket about half full of water with some table salt dissolved in it. Using a battery charger I attached the positive lead to a copper strap suspended in my plastic bucket. The negative lead was attached to the plates being stripped. Using about 6 volts this process was eventually successful. It took some time. The nickel under the chrome plating was not completely stripped. I learned from some plating websites that nickel is particularlly resistant to stripping and my experience bears this out. Don't be concerned about taking off the nickel as nickel can be painted over.

Good luck with your project.

Steve

[aizan]

metalx b-929 will remove nickel from brass.

http://www.finishing.com/stripper/index.shtml

[rxmd]

On the contrary, in fact I'd like the nickel to stay on as far as possible precisely because it can be painted over. :)

[nikonhswebmaster]

You must not remove the nickel, otherwise the paint will just never stick to brass. If you chemically remove the plating you must put some nickel back on. Very little is needed.

[digitalintrigue]

This is a myth. Just use a proper primer, it will stick fine.

[nikonhswebmaster]

This is a myth. Just use a proper primer, it will stick fine.

But primer can look ugly. Nikon went that route on the early Nikon F, and when they brassed you got a little yellow line around the black. They went back to "black" nickel.

And the primer ruins the ability to use thin cellulose based lacquer, to achieve a really thin, but durable, coat of paint. Primer soon produces that "thick paint" look.

The beautiful classic finishes are done by painting on top of "black" nickel that was brushed on. On Nikons you can actually see the brush strokes.

Primer or not, all depends on what you want the finish to look like. A lot of repainters these days are using thinned, rather than heated paints, and it shows.

[digitalintrigue]

If you use the wrong primer, that's correct. :)

Modern primers are nearly translucent. This isn't primer gray like on automobiles.

[aizan]

black nickel...interesting. i'm googling that one now.

[nikonhswebmaster]

If you use the wrong primer, that's correct. :)

Modern primers are nearly translucent. This isn't primer gray like on automobiles.

I guess my question remains, you have for instance a camera you want to repaint, and it is already nickel plated, why not leave the nickel alone?

I am sure there are modern primers that work, my question why use them instead of nickel? Is there an advantage over nickel when using lacquer? I may be missing something here...

I have only restored Nikons, and just prefer to keep them as they were originally.

[digitalintrigue]

Because these are old, have dings, dents, deep scratches, pitting and various other flaws. To get these problems fixed, it's best to go down to the brass. And it's much easier to primer them instead of replating with nickel.

I'm working on a Nikon that had an attempted Jupiter lens mounting, which caused a deep scratch thru the chrome and nickel partway around the lens mount. Just one example.

[nikonhswebmaster]

Because these are old, have dings, dents, deep scratches, pitting and various other flaws. To get these problems fixed, it's best to go down to the brass. And it's much easier to primer them instead of replating with nickel.

I'm working on a Nikon that had an attempted Jupiter lens mounting, which caused a deep scratch thru the chrome and nickel partway around the lens mount. Just one example.

Now I understand why you prime, to paint over the bondo! :p

Why would someone try to fix a scratch...

[digitalintrigue]

Why not?

When it's part of a restoration, you fix it along with the other flaws.

I don't paint cameras just to pass time. :) A nice clean chrome camera that is in excellent shape should remain chrome.

[radiocemetery]

I suggest that once the chrome is gone, don't bother trying to strip the nickel. You can use a self etching primer on any bare metal. Some primers, referred to as "high build', or "surfacers" are formulated to fill minor scratches, pits and other imperfections in the surface. Self etching primer is not high build primer. Use only the thinnest possible coat. If you can see through the primer that is what you want. Always be sure that your primer and top coat are compatible. A lacquer top coat may lift a primer formulated to be used with enamel.

Fred, where do you source nitrocellulose lacquer? I would really like to try that paint and process.

Steve

[radiocemetery]

Digitalintrigue, I agree that for a restoration you want to repair the imperfections of the camera as far as possible. For a resto. I fill dents, pits, and scratches. Right now I am faced with a Pentax H3 with original factory black paint. My decision for this camera is whether to do a full blown resto. and repaint or whether to approach this project as a conservator, and leave the brassing, pits and bubbling paint alone. Granted this is not a high value camera, but as it is with all it's flaws it has a vibe too which I don't want to lose. For now I am inclined to only clean the paint. I suppose I can always paint it later.

Steve

[patrickjames]

You can get the chrome off with muriatic acid, but you are on your own if you try this. (translation, I am not responsible if you hurt/poison yourself). The nickel can be removed chemically which you can find through google. An etching primer works well to lay paint over the brass. As soon as you remove the chrome the camera loses its collectible status so why worry about it? Put a durable finish on it so it will last. The repainted cameras that I have seen sometimes can be ugly because the paint flakes. Just a little info for you and I am not an expert, I just have a little experience.

[nikonhswebmaster]

Fred, where do you source nitrocellulose lacquer? I would really like to try that paint and process.

Steve

I have only done it once, where an original black SP was missing the front plate (not sure how it happened). At the time I bought it in NYC, but honestly I do not remember who the supplier was. It was 15 years ago. I am not a big fan of painting (see my Krylon article http://www.nikonhs.org/tech_articles/restore.html)

I am not trying to rain on digitalintrigue's parade (I doubt I could -- so many see to like restored cameras), but frankly I just don't see the point of camera restoration. I like a mint camera as much as the next collector, but they are only mint once. I like them very worn also. To me there is nothing nicer than lots of brass.

[Harry Lime]

Hi,

there must have been a thread on electrolytic chrome removal for repainting cameras somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. Does anyone have experience with the following:

- electrolytic processes that strip both chrome and nickel,

and

- electrolytic processes that strip *only* the chrome, but leave the nickel in place for easier repainting?

The electrolytic approach seems to be the easiest and most thorough to me that doesn't involve mucking around with acids.

Philipp

You have to strip the camera all the way down to the brass. You can't really paint on the nickel and expect it to stick.

I used these guys:

www.acmeplating.com

[FallisPhoto]

Now I understand why you prime, to paint over the bondo! :p

Why would someone try to fix a scratch...

Okay. let's say you just bought a camera on ebay. You get it and it looks great -- the thing looks mint, just like the ebay photo. Then you turn it over and see that someone has scratched his social security number into the bottom plate (or, worse yet, the top plate). Well, deplating it isn't going to do the trick. You are going to have to resort to a block, 600 grit sandpaper, and #0000 steel wool. You're not going to have any nickel left either; you're going to have to go into the brass.

[FallisPhoto]

I have only done it once, where an original black SP was missing the front plate (not sure how it happened). At the time I bought it in NYC, but honestly I do not remember who the supplier was. It was 15 years ago. I am not a big fan of painting (see my Krylon article http://www.nikonhs.org/tech_articles/restore.html)

I am not trying to rain on digitalintrigue's parade (I doubt I could -- so many see to like restored cameras), but frankly I just don't see the point of camera restoration. I like a mint camera as much as the next collector, but they are only mint once. I like them very worn also. To me there is nothing nicer than lots of brass.

How do you feel about Ciroflexes? There is no brass. When the paint wears off, they rust. A lot. Same with some of the Welta folders. They have steel bodies. I've seen some of those that really did need body filler (not Bondo but lead).

[FallisPhoto]

But primer can look ugly. Nikon went that route on the early Nikon F, and when they brassed you got a little yellow line around the black. They went back to "black" nickel.

And the primer ruins the ability to use thin cellulose based lacquer, to achieve a really thin, but durable, coat of paint. Primer soon produces that "thick paint" look.

The beautiful classic finishes are done by painting on top of "black" nickel that was brushed on. On Nikons you can actually see the brush strokes.

Primer or not, all depends on what you want the finish to look like. A lot of repainters these days are using thinned, rather than heated paints, and it shows.

There are blackening agents for brass that are used in gunsmithing. They cause almost no dimensional change and some of them act as primers.

1. The easy way: http://www.bosesguns.com/product_p/bir74000.htm (this one won't act as a primer but turns the brass black, prevents further corrosion and looks painted).

2. Another easy (albeit expensive)way: http://www.abblackoxide.com/

3. The DIY home chemistry way: dissolve sulphur in a solution of sodium sulphide. Soak the brass part in the solution. You'll get a very thin layer of copper sulphide (which is black and which will act as a primer).

[feenej]

Wow, I'm glad I prefer chrome.

[nikonhswebmaster]

Okay. let's say you just bought a camera on ebay. You get it and it looks great -- the thing looks mint, just like the ebay photo. Then you turn it over and see that someone has scratched his social security number into the bottom plate (or, worse yet, the top plate). Well, deplating it isn't going to do the trick. You are going to have to resort to a block, 600 grit sandpaper, and #0000 steel wool. You're not going to have any nickel left either; you're going to have to go into the brass.

I guess if you are driven crazy by the SS number sure, but sanding it off will not improve the photos. :p

And sanding it off if it is a rare camera will lower its value. The more you change a collectible camera the less it is worth. If you take a Nikon one, say that is complete with original rubber/cloth shutter, but has holes, and put a new one you will lower the value. Cameras are not like cars, of course even with cars, restored is never as valuable as original.

[digitalintrigue]

After you sand it off, you fill it, and then paint it. Voila. But we aren't talking collectibles. We are talking taking a 'user' and making it a 'presentable.' ;)

Many restored cars are worth MUCH more than their original counterparts. Depends on many factors. This may or may not compare to cameras.

[FallisPhoto]

And sanding it off if it is a rare camera will lower its value.

No it won't. Its value dropped through the floor the day that ass scratched his SSN number into it. Your choices are to get a replacement part or refinish the one you have. With that one on it, it has no collector value.

[FallisPhoto]

of course even with cars, restored is never as valuable as original.

Depends on what you start out with. Restored cars are worth WAY more than rust buckets, junkers and wrecks. Same thing with cameras.