View Full Version : travel advice: Scotland and Wales
We're still planning this part of our British holiday this summer. We'll have a Brit Rail Pass to access these areas. Does anyone have any first hand experiences and suggestions about where to go and what to see here? My wife, 2 teenage children, and myself will be in Britain for about 4 weeks. We've got the English part pretty well sorted. Thanks!
John Robertson
05-18-2008, 07:28
Frank
first a link
http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/index.html
Two rail journeys worth taking.
1.Glasgow to Malaig via Fort William. Called the West Highland line, the stretch from Fort William to Mallaig is often steam hauled, and the bit between Glasgow and Fort William passes Loch Lomond and crosses Rannoch Moor. Look out between Fort William and Mallaig for two sights
a. The Glenfinnan viaduct seen on the Harry Potter films via the Hogwarts Express.
b. The pure white sands at Morar, and Scotlands shortest river, the Morar runs between the loch and the sea, less than a mile. Loch Morar incidentally is Scotland deepest loch.
2.Perth to Kyle of Lochalsh via Inverness
Again amazing scenery via the steep haul over the Drumochter and Shlochd summits. The bit between Inverness and Kyle is very beautiful, and from Kyle there is a bus on to the Isle of Skye.
If you are in Glasgow, have a laugh and go on the tiny Underground, nickname the "Clockwork Orange" from the train colour and tiny size, now electrified, until 1930's it was operated like the San Francisco Cable Cars pulled by a cable between the 4 foot gauge rails. I can see over the carriages when I stand on the platform and I'm just 6 feet!
Hope this helps
P.S.
The Highlands start at Inverness not Edinburgh!!;)
P.P.S. You'll see more kilts and bagpipes in Canada than Scotland!!
mabelsound
05-18-2008, 07:33
In Wales, you might pay a visit to Portmeirion, especially if you're a fan of The Prisoner.
Joe Brugger
05-18-2008, 08:24
and once you get to Portmeirion you're close to the Festiniog narrow gage, which is a pleasant ride up into the slate country at Blaenau.
also worth scheduling for the scenery is the stretch from Settle to Carlisle. Carlisle is not too bad a base for a couple days and isn't overrun with tourists.
I'm off to Scotland myself for the first time this Thursday. Staying at Fort William, Loch Lomond and Drumnadrochit. Not much use to you FrankS, but if I have any useful info for you on my return and hopefully before you go I'll get in touch.
Frank
if you enjoy hiking or walking around in the mountains, you will certainly like the Snowdonia national park in Wales with the highest mountain in Wales - Snowdon or Breacon Beacon national park.. There are beautiful sceneries and views if you happen to get a weather which allows it :). There is also lot of castles in Wales. I have seen Convy castle and it was beautiful. Good place to start digging info is wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castles_in_Wales
Martin
mabelsound
05-18-2008, 09:22
Frank
if you enjoy hiking or walking around in the mountains, you will certainly like the Snowdonia national park in Wales with the highest mountain in Wales - Snowdon or Breacon Beacon national park.. There are beautiful sceneries and views if you happen to get a weather which allows it :). There is also lot of castles in Wales. I have seen Convy castle and it was beautiful. Good place to start digging info is wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castles_in_Wales
Martin
Yes, I've driven through Snowdonia, it is incredibly beautiful!
mcgrattan
05-18-2008, 09:23
The train journeys already suggested in Scotland are great. The West Highland line is an incredible journey. Edinburgh itself is obviously well worth a visit. The castle but also the surrounding area in the Old Town is a good afternoon of sight-seeing and photography.
Stirling is another impressive castle, with views across to the hills. The Trossachs [the area between the north of Stirling and Loch Lomond] is very pretty. Not quite as dramatic as the mountains further north, but nice nonetheless.
It's worth noting that Glasgow and Edinburgh are only an hour apart geographically, but about 50 years in cultural terms. Edinburgh is very "Shortbread and single malt", trading on it's (considerable) history, while Glasgow is more modern, and vibrant. Glasgow is quite a small city, and laid out on an American-style grid. Don't miss the Glasgow Museum of Modern Art (GOMA). If going to Glasgow, avoid the big hotels like the plague (Hilton, etc). Go instead for the Malmaison, One Devonshire Gardens or my personal favourite, the Carlton George. Hire a car and go to Loch Lomond. The village itself is tacky, but there are two good hotels, The Lodge on the Loch, or The Lodge on Loch Lomond. I second the suggestion for Stirling and it's castle, and Scotland in general.
There's nothing of note in Wales except the west end of the M4 motorway.
Regards,
Bill
Oh yeah!!
Well what about Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch (http://www.llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantys iliogogogoch.com/)
...bless you ;)
Regards,
Bill
Yammerman
05-18-2008, 10:41
There's nothing of note in Wales except the west end of the M4 motorway.
Regards,
Bill
I have to leap to Wales defence here as there is plenty to see in Wales….The Gower, St David’s, Offa’s Dyke, loads of Castles, Brecon Beacons, Anglesey, Ludlow, Pembrokeshire Llandudno and so much other stuff thats slipped my mind
So look here.....
http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Europe/United_Kingdom/Wales/Things_To_Do-Wales-BR-1.html (http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Europe/United_Kingdom/Wales/Things_To_Do-Wales-BR-1.html)
Wales is bloomin marvellous.......just don't tell them I'm English.:D
Al Patterson
05-18-2008, 10:50
There's nothing of note in Wales except the west end of the M4 motorway.
Regards,
Bill
As a fan of "The Prisoner", and a railfan, I think the reasons for going to Wales have been covered upthread...
As a fan of "The Prisoner", and a railfan, I think the reasons for going to Wales have been covered upthread...
Mustn't forget Ivor the Engine.
Regards,
Bill
John Robertson
05-18-2008, 12:16
The Trossachs [the area between the north of Stirling and Loch Lomond] is very pretty. Not quite as dramatic as the mountains further north, but nice nonetheless.
Yes the Trossachs are wonderful, but there are now no RAIL links in the area, not much help with a railpass sadly.
If you are in Edinburgh, a quick trip over the Forth and Tay Bridges is worth while. Victorian engineering at its best.
Fortunately Scotrails reliability record is far better than some of the other companies.
Another steam line branches off the Perth to Inverness line at Aviemore going to Boat of Garten ( to be extended to Granton on spey in the near future.) There is also the Cairngorm Mountain Railway in that area.
If you're travelling between Glasgow and Edinburgh; I would recommend a stop off at Linlithgow for the Palace.
http://www.linlithgow.com/
John Robertson
05-18-2008, 15:26
I think the most import thing of all is that you can't do all of the UK justice in one trip,
I know its a small country but distances are greater than you people at the other side of the pond think, especially in the north of Scotland. For instance Perth to Kyle is not a day trip, count on about 4 to 5 hours each way!!
Better to select a few and really see them.
BTW There is FFordes camera dealers shop and gallery, about 20mins walk from Beauly station on the line between Inverness and Kyle:angel:
How about a visit to Llangollen, beauriful scenery, a ruined castle and an Abbey and a steam railway...oh and if you happen to be here in July you have the Internationl Music Eisteddfod.
http://www.llangollen.com/
Croeseo
Although the architecture of Edinburgh is rightly celebrated, don't miss the jewels of Glasgow, namely the buildings by Art Nouveau pioneer Charles Rennie Mackintosh (a profound influence on Frank Lloyd Wright, don't miss his School of Art), and Alexander Greek Thomson, who crafted spooky, powerful buildings in the early Victorian period. And while Scotland was the engine of the British Enlightenment, it also led the field in British cultural barbarity, as testified by the fact that several of Thomson's buildings, real cultural gems, are semi-derelict.
Niall Bell
05-19-2008, 04:03
Re Scotland: FWIW, it might be worthwhile heading north-west and hiring a car for a while. Whilst the rail routes described above are undoubtedly beautiful, the best sights are to be seen have no railways (Glen Coe; Skye; etc). Beware the midges!!!
Whatever you do, get here and see it before Alex Salmond screws it for us all.
Have a good holiday,
Niall
Roger Hicks
05-19-2008, 04:55
Another country in the UK is Cornwall, don't forget. As far as I'm aware, the Cornish Riviera Express still goes to Penzance -- and as it leaves England it crosses Isambard Kingdom Brunel's incredible bridge at Saltash Passage.
Send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll send you a draft of the revised text for the UK entry in Motorcycle Touring in Europe for a general overview (don't worry, it covers more than motorcycling).
Cheers,
Roger
Re Scotland: FWIW, it might be worthwhile heading north-west and hiring a car for a while. Whilst the rail routes described above are undoubtedly beautiful, the best sights are to be seen have no railways (Glen Coe; Skye; etc). Beware the midges!!!
Whatever you do, get here and see it before Alex Salmond screws it for us all.
Have a good holiday,
Niall
Second the midges thing, August onwards industrial strength DEET and stay indoors dawn and dusk
“……….to be here in July you have the International Music Eisteddfod.” Or you could just shoot yourself...... there’s enough suffering in this world already :D
Niall Bell
05-19-2008, 05:16
Re the midges/DEET: a huge number of hill goers are now using Avon Skin So Soft. The most effective anti-midge agent I've ever tried. And it tastes and smells better than DEET etc.
Niall
Yep, evil stuff, 50% DEET will take the paint off a camera if you don’t wash your hands before picking it up. Not heard of the Avon stuff my wife reacts badly to the bites so has to be ultra careful
Niall Bell
05-19-2008, 05:55
Well get in touch with the Avon Lady and get your wife the best outdoor present. Allegedly its anti-midge properties were 'discovered' during the filming of the Harry Potter movies- but not sure how apocrypha that is. Makes you smell like a girl, though and makes cameras greasy..
l
John Robertson
05-19-2008, 11:17
Re Scotland: FWIW, it might be worthwhile heading north-west and hiring a car for a while. Whilst the rail routes described above are undoubtedly beautiful, the best sights are to be seen have no railways (Glen Coe; Skye; etc). Beware the midges!!!
Whatever you do, get here and see it before Alex Salmond screws it for us all.
Have a good holiday,
Niall
Can I add ny own favourite area Torridon, thankfully still unspoiled, I can never forget sitting on a headland at Diabeg on a glorious evening with the sun going down watching a Humpback whale enjoying itself. In the silence its sounds were totally unreal.
BTW Niall Do you think Daphne Broon** and Alex Salmond were separated at birth, the resemblance in extraodinary.:eek:
** take too long to explain but those in Scotland and UK will know who I mean.
John,
Daphne Broon/Alex Salmond; PMSL. That's a classic! :D But seriously, have you ever seen them in the same room together? :confused:
Niall,
Avon Skin So Soft is the dogs. I've used it for about five years. Still prefer a flamethrower though...
John Robertson
05-19-2008, 15:29
John,
Daphne Broon/Alex Salmond; PMSL. That's a classic! :D But seriously, have you ever seen them in the same room together? :confused:
Niall,
Avon Skin So Soft is the dogs. I've used it for about five years. Still prefer a flamethrower though...
Ah I never thought of her being a transvestite!!:eek:
New information: my wife, the internet travel planning fiend, has suggested that we forgo Scotland and the rail pass, ss we don't spread ourselves too thin, time-wise and money-wise. Planning now just to see a small area of southern Wales: Tintern Abbey and Chepstow castle and locale.
John Robertson
05-19-2008, 16:00
New information: my wife, the internet travel planning fiend, has suggested that we forgo Scotland and the rail pass, ss we don't spread ourselves too thin, time-wise and money-wise. Planning now just to see a small area of southern Wales: Tintern Abbey and Chepstow castle and locale.
I think thats very wise, good excuse for further visits.;)
Yes, I agree too. Both Scotland and Wales deserve more time and attention!
(Raglan Castle in south Wales looks amazing.)
charjohncarter
05-19-2008, 16:27
When I was going to the Lake Country and Scotland, I asked on another forum if I should take my Nikonos. The Scots, Picts, and the Brits thought that was really funny. I wouldn't worry too much about rain, I lived in Oregon and it is about the same.
I'm thinking the landscapes and castles would call for medium format. I've got a couple of folders, one for B+W and one for colour.
So, a windbreaker/rain jacket would be good to have, how about a sweater in the middle of July? Is it cool enough for one at times?
charjohncarter
05-19-2008, 17:02
Well, I'll agree with that, but then everthing could possibly call for medium format.
This is a digital P&S from my trip:
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/4974204-md.jpg
You have had enough advice to cover three times your allotted time. For me, if you had more time, Glencoe and the Cuillin Hills of Skye afford some magificent, but bleak scenery. On the assumption that you will be going during the oxymoronically referenced period called Summer, I would recommend a light, but fully waterproof jacket, and a sweater. Enjoy!!
So, a windbreaker/rain jacket would be good to have, how about a sweater in the middle of July? Is it cool enough for one at times?
Yes, rain jacket would be good to have since the Haar will own you, and you'll never think you'll be warm again. ;) I swear it's like walking through rain drops that just hang in midair.
I can't wait to go back. West Highland Way out of Milngavie was a ton of fun, although my feet still have memory of the bedrock. But the wind, the people, and the hope of good scotch with some characters at the end of the day made me forget my feet.
Oh yeah, don't forget to pre-visualize driving on the left for about a week before you go. Entering a traffic circle the wrong way can prove exciting!
wolves3012
05-21-2008, 11:38
I have to leap to Wales defence here as there is plenty to see in Wales….The Gower, St David’s, Offa’s Dyke, loads of Castles, Brecon Beacons, Anglesey, Ludlow, Pembrokeshire Llandudno and so much other stuff thats slipped my mind
You may have some diffculty locating Ludlow in Wales - last time I went there it was firmly in Shropshire, England ;)
Bloody hell! Would you believe it. I decided to take my Nikon D80 with me to Scotland as I mentioned in this thread and here I am on my first day and realise I've left my battery charger behind. Off to Loch Lomond tomorrow. I knew I should've just brought my RF instead. Anyway I have got my Contax T2 with me and a few rolls of film so I'll have to use the dslr sparingly. Damn digital!
Sorry to hear that kuvvy. For some reason I tend to run out of batteries with my digi P+S more often and to greater inconvenience than I run out of film for my film cameras. Go figure.
So, how's the scenery up there?
John Robertson
05-22-2008, 13:27
Re the midges/DEET: a huge number of hill goers are now using Avon Skin So Soft. The most effective anti-midge agent I've ever tried. And it tastes and smells better than DEET etc.
Niall
Yup the Avon stuff was even recommended by Billy Connoly on TV recently, only stuff that worked without making you smell like a chemical spill.
DEET also desroys plastic compact camera bodies!!
ClaremontPhoto
05-22-2008, 13:54
Go to the Elan Valley for the dams and reservoirs.
http://history.powys.org.uk/history/rhayader/elanmenu.html
Windscale
05-23-2008, 09:15
FrankS,
Since you will have 4 weeks you should be able to cover England and Scotland or Wales. 3 weeks in England would be more than enough. Try not to duplicate too much. Churches and castles will become boring once you got to your third or fourth. You should try to cover more localities with special characters. Also once outside London it would be better to drive than to go by rail. It is difficult to take pictures on a MOVING train. And you won't be limited by places with train stations. With driving you can stop anywhere you like and take pictures. Countryside Bed & breakfasts are cheaper (and friendlier) than big towns hotels. If you start from London you can go up on the west side and come down on the east side and cover Scotland in the middle part of your journey. A brief directional guide would be London - Oxford and Woodstock (Blenheim) - Lancashire - Cumbria (Lake District) - Through Carlisle into Scotland - Glasgow - Stirling, Lomond, Fort William - Inverness - Edinburgh - back to England - Yorkshire (Bronte Country and York) - Derbyshire (Peak District and Chatsworth House, if you have not yet got sicked of castles by this time!) - London. If you have time left you can go south of London for day trips to say Stonehenge, Tunbridge Wells and other places in Kent. This way you will cover most of the best of England and many places mentioned in previous messages in Scotland. You can save Wales and Cornwall for your next trip. There are many interesting places there as well. But you won't have enough time this time round. I am sure your have already planned your English part. But do compare it with the above route.
You will not need your Nikonos but you do need a waterproof jacket and warm mid layer like a fleece or jumper. The British weather works in mysterious ways. It can get very hot and very cold with heavy rain and the sun coming out a few times in the same day even in the summer!
I hope you will let us know where you have been after your trip and post some pics to make us feel envy. Have a nice holiday.
You may have some diffculty locating Ludlow in Wales - last time I went there it was firmly in Shropshire, England ;)
True enough: I'm just about to set off there from London. It's about ten miles from the border.
Joe Brugger
05-23-2008, 14:11
I like to use the train, then rent the car in Bath or Plymouth or Carlisle etc after doing my messing about in and around London.
richdirector
07-04-2008, 03:25
If coming to Scotland in summer - beware the midges - biting hell. Forget midge repellant - get some Avon skin-so-soft works a treat and is actually issued to forestry workers.
Other sights in Glasgow - touristy
Barrows Market east end of Merchant City (counterfeit and thieves paradise .... well used to be) now more interesting place for street photography. Merchant City - slowly been done up but lots of old derelict buildings.
Kelvingrove museum - quite eclectic - a stuffed giraffe then modern art in the next room - then polynesian masks - then dinosaur bones - you get my drift.
West End Ashton Lane - good for a drink - short cobbled street. The wee hurry (curry shop - one of the best)
Mr Singh's - Glasgow Curry House where the waiters are in kilts .... food pretty good but Mother India or Mother India cafe (500m apart) better for food.
Glasgow University - nice old building great cloisters
Sorry if I covered old ground.
rain as someone said easy between Glasgow and Edinburgh - also Stirling (for castle) only 25 min or so by train.
Loch Lomond -east side (West Highland Way walk goes up the east side - quite pretty)
You can pick up film (B&W processing overnight etc) easy enough - pm me if you want places to get stuff/contacts
rich
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