View Full Version : Tri-X at 1600
In my latest blog entry I've documented an experiment in available light, pushing Tri-X to 1600: http://northernjourney.blogspot.com/
I used HC-110 dil B for 28mins 64F with a modified Merciful agitation cycle. I would now like to repeat the experiment with Rodinal 1:50.
The Toronto contingent has some Diafine on order and before long I should be able to experiment with that too.
What's your fav film/dev combo for 1600 work?
Gene
Pherdinand
04-22-2005, 07:14
delta3200 works quite well at 1600 in agfa refinal (although the d3200's true speed is considered 1250 in refinal, following Agfa's official sheet)
i especially like it in 120-format, where the grain is less visible
In the same time, i'm waiting for the results on tri-x pushed to 1600, 120-format, in the same agfa refinal developer. Don't ask me why this funky soup.
Pherdinand
04-22-2005, 07:16
Those images look great, Gene, at least in this size:) How about enlarging them?
I've done some 400TX @ 1600 in stock Microphen. Doesn't exhibit much grain; the contrast is somewhat bumped though.
Not to hijack the thread Gene, but I just took a look at some of your portfolio shots and have to say that your "Birches & Fog" is an exceptional photograph. Well done.
Tom
Fuji Neopan 1600 @1600 in Calbe A49 (1:1).
Not to hijack the thread Gene, but I just took a look at some of your portfolio shots and have to say that your "Birches & Fog" is an exceptional photograph. Well done.
Tom
Thanks kindly, Tom. That was from my first outing with the Hassy. I haven't taken the Hassy out enough lately. It's a lovely camera to use.
Gene
sockeyed
04-22-2005, 08:39
I shoot tri-X at 1600 and develop in D-76 1:1 for 13.25 mins with great results. The grain is good, nice detail in shadows and highlights, nice contrast.
Here are a few samples (click on 'all sizes' for higher-res images):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sockeyed/7192516/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sockeyed/7192512/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sockeyed/7192529/
In my latest blog entry I've documented an experiment in available light, pushing Tri-X to 1600: http://northernjourney.blogspot.com/
I used HC-110 dil B for 28mins 64F with a modified Merciful agitation cycle. I would now like to repeat the experiment with Rodinal 1:50.
Gene
Gene, the images look great. I like HC110. It's been a while since I've used it (mostly 120 stuff). IIRC it is primarily a fine-grain developer and not necessarily a high acutance developer. I've heard the opposite on D76, though, regarding pushability. It has always been considered a good developer for pushing. I think it may depend on the dilution, because the solvency of straight usage and maybe even at 1:1 may have the effect you describe. You can get into some stand development times with D76 by going 1:2, 1:3, or more. I've used the stand development agitation techinque on shorter times with the idea on controlling contrast. It worked pretty good. I recently picked up some TFX2 from Photographer's Formulary which supposedly is excellent for stand development. Haven't tried it yet. Good job on the pics! :)
I shoot tri-X at 1600 and develop in D-76 1:1 for 13.25 mins with great results. The grain is good, nice detail in shadows and highlights, nice contrast.
Here are a few samples (click on 'all sizes' for higher-res images):
Ben, my browser won't let me see your pics! :( I'll try IE. BTW, I'm curious, how did you come up with 13.25 mins? I *would* have gone around 15 or more. :D
Ben, Ray, it sounds like you guys have had really good luck with pushing Tri-X in D-76. I have D-76 in stock (I generally use it 1:1) but shied away from pushing to 1600 using it after following some longish threads on photo.net that suggesed that the shadow areas drop out quickly. Now I think I should do some experimenting.
Ray, could you describe your stand development techniques with 1:2 and 1:3? It sounds really interesting. I'd prefer to stick with D-76 if possible just cause I like it. I think the grain patterns with D-76 are more attractive than those with HC-110.
Gene
My favorite fast combos:
Neopan 1600 in A49 1+1 - quite OK at 1600 (though better at 800 - 1000)
TMax 3200 at 1600 (and still OK at 3200) in A49 1+1 - coarser grain than NP, but better shadow detail.
Roman
Ray, could you describe your stand development techniques with 1:2 and 1:3? It sounds really interesting.
Gene
Gene, I was "speaking" hypothetically on the dilution ratios. Generally, if you dilute you increase time and solution amounts, which could get you out to some long times. I agree it sounds like an interesting experiment to take D76 out to those dilutions/times, one that I would love to try.
I've used the "stand" type agitation (5 sec. every 3 minutes), with a different developer and normal exposures. These two different lighting situations were done using that technique:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/10039/sort/1/cat/500/page/3
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/10304/sort/1/cat/500/page/3
I haven't been pushing much lately. I shot some APX 100 at 400 and got some interesting results:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/9986/sort/1/cat/500/page/3
But most of my shots are in daylight (high to normal contrast), so I've been experimenting on that end. I've not pushed Tri-X with D76 recently, but when I did, I always used it undiluted. That's why I want to see Ben's images at 1:1 and 13.25s.
If I get a chance I'll try to mix up a liter or a 1/2 of D76 this weekend. If I do, I'll shoot a short roll of Tri-X at 1600, and try one of the higher dilutions/longer times. (I just need to finish the roll of NP 400 that is in my camera!).
Thanks Ray. I'll be interested in any conclusions you come up with. I'm still intrigued with Merciful's Tri-X/Rodinal experiments and want to do some of my own in the near future.
Gene
sockeyed
04-26-2005, 14:47
Hi Ray,
I used the Massive Development Chart to get the 13.25 mins. Seems to work well:
http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html
Here is a shot from my gallery using Tri-X at 1600:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/cpg/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=11072&pos=2
I usually use Tri-X at 1600 in Kodak Xtol 1:1. I've churned out such satisfactory results from that combo that I actually began shooting Tri-X at 1600 at least 50% of the time until my 100' roll and my purchsed rolls were all gone. I never have to think twice about spinning the meter to 1600 on my R2 or FE2 when Tri-X is loaded.
http://www.pbase.com/chiapuke/image/28784608/medium.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/chiapuke/image/23221203/medium.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/chiapuke/image/23538791/medium.jpg
etc..
Natron, nice shots and that sounds like another alternative. I read a posting on pn recently in which the photog said he got better *scans* with Xtol than any other developer for Tri-X, presumably because it was a bit finer grained which led to less grain aliasing. Do you scan your negs frequently?
BTW, what's your ballpark time/temp/agitation for Tri-X 1600 in Xtol 1:1 ?
Gene
Natron, nice shots and that sounds like another alternative. I read a posting on pn recently in which the photog said he got better *scans* with Xtol than any other developer for Tri-X, presumably because it was a bit finer grained which led to less grain aliasing. Do you scan your negs frequently?
BTW, what's your ballpark time/temp/agitation for Tri-X 1600 in Xtol 1:1 ?
Gene
I scan in more negatives than I print, by far. In fact, until recently, I ONLY scanned in my negatives. The Xtol negatives certainly scan in better than my Rodinal negatives... surprisingly, my BEST scanning negatives ever were HP5+ in HC110 dilution B. Anyway, my Xtol+TriX negatives do scan very well. I'd have to look back on my past notes on my times. Temp is always 68F.
neilsphoto
05-05-2005, 14:12
Last week over on Photo.net I started a thread with more "Merciful" TX @3200 shots. I'll post 2 here. I went to 33 minutes at 68F, 1:50 and agitation every 5 minutes as usual.
I also shot some basketball with TX @3200 when I ran out of TMZ. They also look very good but I haven't scanned any yet. BTW this TX scans just great processed this way.
Last week over on Photo.net I started a thread with more "Merciful" TX @3200 shots. I'll post 2 here. I went to 33 minutes at 68F, 1:50 and agitation every 5 minutes as usual.
I also shot some basketball with TX @3200 when I ran out of TMZ. They also look very good but I haven't scanned any yet. BTW this TX scans just great processed this way.
Nice lighting in these shots! When you say more "Merciful" TX treatments, do you mean Rodinal 1:50??
Gene
Gabriel M.A.
05-05-2005, 15:44
I don't have any scans of my Tri-X rolls rated at 1600 developed in Diafine. It is really one of the best ways to go if you're going to use this film at this speed. Why punish it by pushing?? I very much dislike pushing unless what I'm going for is getting the grain and loss of resolution.
I must say though, that Neil's samples are absolutely fine. But 33 minutes! That's dedication.
Since rating at 1600 is usually for low-light situations, the conditions are usually ripe for high-contrast situations; this is where Diafine shines. For flat lighting conditions, developing in Diafine is very disappointing (muted highlights), but the beauty is that you can rate different frames in the same roll at different speeds depending on the conditions (do at own risk, though...expensive learning curve).
I'm lucky enough to live where a camera dealer stocks Diafine at very reasonable prices ($12 ea.); I've bought three extra kits, just in case.
I've heard of people rating T-Max 400 at 800 and even at 1200 too for developing in Diafine with pleasing results; I've never done it, for I'm not a big fan of T-Max; I have read somewhere that a soup of Xtol and Rodinal 1+50 (yes, you read right) can be used to push TMY to 1200 too with pleasing grain. I'm tempted to do that sometime in the near future.
Now, regarding scanning negatives developed in Rodinal, I have developed both 120 and 35mm TMY in Rodinal 1+50 (about 13 minutes @ 68 F ... I haven't done it in almost a year, I'm out of practice but will very soon) with excellent results, very smooth and sharp. Haven't had the courage to try it with HP5+, though; D76 stock for that only.
neilsphoto
05-05-2005, 16:14
Yes, Rodinal 1:50 for 33 minutes. Just window light. 125th @F2? , maybe 2.8 with an 85 on a Canon EOS 1n RS.
o0dano0o
05-05-2005, 17:43
diafine + trix @ 1600 = tasty
Gene,
I managed to try an experiment with Tri-X pushed to 1600 and processed in D76 1:4 for 30 mins. Not too bad. I think at this dilution there is a loss of acutance. The images just don't seem as sharp.
I agitated every 5 mins for about 5 seconds (a few slow inversions), and souped the roll in a liter of solution. These shots are of my kids lazin' in front of the TV <yawn>. ;) I have a few outdoor shots in deep shade, but these shots may be closer to a scenario where someone would want to push to 1600. BTW, these are straight, no contrast or brightness adjustments, only cropped slightly, and spotted in PS.
Anyway, check them out below.
Pherdinand
05-07-2005, 03:21
quite nice shots, Ray. What was the reason you pushed the film? Seems there was quite some light in there...
Tri X at 1600 in Diafine
Shot with Canon 50/1.5
Pherdinand
05-07-2005, 05:45
i like these, rover
Funny - now that i look second time at the thumbnail of the last shot, it looks like a big swastikka in a circle, on the blackboard!!! Scary. Sorry for OT remark.
I also saw the swastika and was wondering about the story behind the image before I opened th picture...
Roman
The S in the Sam?
By chance there was another boy named Sam also at the board, you can see where he wrote his name behind my Sam.
The S is only the left half of the "swastika"...
back alley
05-07-2005, 09:48
rover,
i really like that second shot!
it's easy to see how much time you spend with your son as you seem to often catch that 'little boy' moment so well.
i also like the look of the 1.5
joe
Thank you Joe. If my shots say that photography is my other passion, then I will always be a happy man.
I put the Canon 50/1.5 on my M3 this morning after scanning these shots. This was a harshly lit day, bright sun, but when I didn't abuse it by shooting into backlit situations where any image would suffer, the 50/1.5 shined. I shot with my square 50/1.9 hood and a yellow filter.
quite nice shots, Ray. What was the reason you pushed the film? Seems there was quite some light in there...
Hi Pherdinand, actually it was late in the day and my shutter speeds, while still usable, were getting kinda slow. That's the light of a setting sun through a western facing window. The main reason why I pushed was to try out D76 at higher dilutions and stand-type times (as discussed earlier in the thread). I probably could have gotten by with pushing to 800, or 1250, but that wasn't the point of the test. :) I think these look nice as well, but I don't know if I'd go this route—maybe with more testing. :cool:
Justin Low
09-04-2005, 11:11
My apologies for bringing such a buried thread back to the top, but I tried the suggestion to developed Tri-X that has been exposed at EI3200 for 30 minutes in Rodinal.
It works well! I developed it for 15 minutes at 30°C and the density looks really good. Unfortunately, the negatives have a pretty dense base fog. They scan decently, with reasonable contrast and grain.
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