Voigtlander 21mm f4 Color Skopar

[JayS]

Hello everyone,

I'm looking at purchasing the CV 21mm f4 Color Skopar for my Bessa R2, which I plan to use mainly for landscapes. I've read many posts in other forums about the quality of this lens but none have mentioned ease/difficulty of using the viewfinder.

I'm still very much an RF newbie and have never used a viewfinder mounted on the hotshoe before, does anyone on this forum own the CV 21mm and what is your experience good or bad with it and the viewfinder.

Any information would be very much appreciated, thank you.

Jay

[RML]

CV's viewfinders are very, very bright and a joy to use. I use the 25mm on my Bessa L.
With the R2 you might want to do the focussing using the rangefinder but it's very simple to just use the viewfinder for aiming and the DOF markings on the lens for focussing. Just guestimate the distance and set the lens to it, set your prefered f-stop and shutter speed, and check whether the indicated DOF is what you want. If so, shoot; if not, adjust.

[jdos2]

I've the 21mm in the Nikon mount. The finder is indeed bright, and simple to use. The DoF is so great on that lens that at f/8 infinity to a meter is in focus.

I like it.

[That Guy]

I, too, was a little wierd on the whole idea of viewfinder shooting. But I found that shooting with my 25mm on the L was easy. Framing looks pretty accurate for what I was shooting. Like RML said, just set the DOF scale to "about" what you think it is. I've been way off on the scale before (forgot that I had to set it and shot half a roll that way) and still had everything come out in focus and sharp.

Like the others said, the scale is so good that past f/8 it's really just a matter of metering and framing.

[Wayne R. Scott]

I'm sorry to Hi-Jack Jays's thread, but I have a question about using 21mm lens. What do you use them for mainly? People, landscapes, street shooting? How do you use them?

I have 21mm Biogon for my Contax and I am having a hard time "seeing " this wide of a view. I am used to 50mm and 35mm mainly.

Thanks Guys,
Wayne

[JayS]

Wayne,

Hi-jack away, it's fine with me! I'd be interested to find out what photographic subjects others use a 21mm lens for as well. The widest angle I've used to this date is 28mm on my EOS system.

Jay

[RML]

All depends on what you shoot normally. I happen to have a liking for 50mm and wider so I have little trouble "seeing" wide.
I do have trouble using longer than 50mm. I just got a J-8, which 85mm, and I find it difficult to see subjects.

I mainly shoot the streets, not just street photography but anything that tickles my fancy, from people to street scenes to views and vistas to "macro" selections, etc. For many of those subjects a wide angle lens works fine.
But yes, not all subjects are equally suited for a wide angle. I usually "feel" what will work and what won't (and still try to shoot it. I can crop later if necessary).

[Doug]

Hi -- As to use of 21mm lens, here's an excellent series shot in Istanbul, all with 21mm Skopar. It makes me want one too!:

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=322503

Also in our recent thread here in RF Forum about favorite street photos, the two I first submitted were both taken with the 21mm lens equivalent in the 6x7 format (a 45mm f/4)

[Doug]

Make that RF Forum thread here:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=585&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

[rover]

I will be adding the 21/4 to my kit very soon. The I have seen the gallery that Doug pointed to above and just love the intimacy of the people images taken with this lens. I think that is something that cannot be avoided in those images, the photographer is so close with such a wide lens. I just read the responses to your similar post on the CVUG. I think they are very similar to those here, and combined they make me want to just order the lens right now.

[JayS]

Thank you :)

From reading your replies to my question I'll now be getting the 21mm within the next few months.

Thanks Doug for the link to the photo's of Istanbul, they also made me want this lens more! I'm looking forward to getting out and experimenting with it!

Thanks again

Jay

[Wayne R. Scott]

Doug,

Thanks for the link to the 21mm portfoilio.

The good news is that I got to see a lot of 21mm shots. The bad news is that my two favorite shots from this portfolio were shot with a Skopar 50mm f2.5. They are Waiting Room, Sirkeci Train Station and the Ortakoy Beads Maker.

I think it must just be my preference. I have been toying with the idea of selling my 21mm Biogon and buying a Bronica 645RF with 65mm lens. I really like the 645 format, but my ETR cameras are very noisy.

Wayne

[Doug]

The Istanbul shots do show a lot of talent with the 21mm; he's certainly learned how to handle it well. I'm occasionally tempted to get one myself, though I'd sure like the extra stop of the Leica 21. On the other hand, I do have the CV 15 and 25mm lenses on either side (as to view angle), so do I really "need" it. Impossible question.

Sure as can be, after you sell your Biogon you'll find a burning need for it!

But the Bronica is a great camera. It's a little awkward with the 45mm since the viewfinder has no 45mm framelines, and there's an external finder. You can get by without, but it's like using a 25mm on a Minolta CLE... the whole viewfinder area can serve as an approximation. Partly as a result, I got a Fuji 645 with the dedicated 45mm, and have used that a lot recently.

It would be fun if Bronica offered a 30 or 35mm for the RF645, but it seems unlikely to happen. The camera is still very versatile and easy to use, plus being virtually silent.

[le vrai rdu]

no more news about this 21 mm ?

I am on my way to buy one :D

[rumbliegeos]

I will mention one alternative view of the lens, and it may well not be representative. I owned one for a couple of years, and I thought it had quite significant light fall-off on the short edges of the frames. However, I was also shooting it exclusively on a 50 year old Leica IIIf black dial, and after I sold the lens I wondered if the problem came from the camera's old horizontal shutter. The problem did not exist with the camera when a 35mm Jupiter 12 was used. If you use the 21mm with the modern vertical shutter on a Bessa it would probably not happen. In any case, I liked the strong wide angle look of the lens, it had great resolution and contrast, and the viewfinder was great. Just could not get past the light fall-off, so I sold it.

[le vrai rdu]

okay

I plan to use it on my bessa R

[le vrai rdu]

I looked around about this fallof

It is noticeable , but it doesn' t bother me too much :)

[Bob Michaels]

I use the 21mm CV lens / finder combination and very happy with it.

But if you really like the 21mm focal length and want the very best in a 35mm camera, consider the Zeiss 21mm Biogon 2.8 in ContaxG mount with a matching body. That lens which comes with an excellent finder matched with a G1 body should be around US $850 these days. I keep my ContaxG system just to use this lens. It is that good.

[le vrai rdu]

yes but............

....................I'am a student, I can't spend 850$ for a lens :( :D

I am given a proposition : 190€ the lens + LTM to M adaptater + finder + little bag
(i will have to sell the adaptater for I have a bessa R :D)

[Becoming]

That's a bargain if you ask me! You'll love the lens even more at that price.

[le vrai rdu]

okay :) that's great :)

[Becoming]

PS: I can't believe you're only 25, I've just noticed. Your work is so mature, more like you've been shooting 25 years!

Keep it up.

[le vrai rdu]

thanks a lot Becoming ;)

[Pablito]

very good lens, the finder is fine but the frame lines can blank out

[le vrai rdu]

I take it tomorrow :)

[capitalK]

Love mine. I often keep the viewfinder on the body and then it's ready to shoot once I add the lens (which takes up very little room in my bag, even with the square hood). Edit: I have the LTM version with an M mount adapter.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3443/3919217427_2a49042564_o.jpg

[ampguy]

This guy, if he doesn't crop, is very very good with using the 21 on full frame with his people shots.

I use the 21 mostly on a 1.3x crop for landscapes, with the M8, don't need the ext. VF, but glasses wearers probably will.

Hi -- As to use of 21mm lens, here's an excellent series shot in Istanbul, all with 21mm Skopar. It makes me want one too!:

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=322503

Also in our recent thread here in RF Forum about favorite street photos, the two I first submitted were both taken with the 21mm lens equivalent in the 6x7 format (a 45mm f/4)

[Mablo]

Love my VC 21mm. It's soo easy to use. In many situations I don't even bother to focus properly, only scale focus roughly (using f/8 or more) and my photos are always sharp.

[SimonSawSunlight]

I love it. it's small, rather sharp, quick to handle and I love the bit of a 'retro' look and vignetting wide open. I'm using it without viewfinder.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=21mm&w=26124575%40N04&ss=1&s=int

[le vrai rdu]

I got it :D

lovely little stuff :) , I love the framing of this focal length :)


The finder is quite nice and clear :)

[Becoming]

I got it :D

lovely little stuff :) , I love the framing of this focal length :)


The finder is quite nice and clear :)

I thought you'd end up getting it. Good choice.

[le vrai rdu]

tried it today at the horse race (grand prix d'amérique 2010)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2801/4319817305_9c4fc6704e_o.jpg
21 mm 4 CV bessa R


the funniest focal length I ever used :D

[capitalK]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2722/4519379769_f09ba4341c_o.jpg

[kossi008]

I also have it and I like it so much that I am considering getting an R4x for it. I have two reservations about the external finder I am using on my Bessa R right now:

(a) I find it somewhat cumbersome to use two finders. But then again, I'm just lazy...
(b) I sometimes tilt the picture, because the barrel distortion of the external finder makes it just a little harder to align the vertical lines. But then again, I'm just sloppy...

I think I would use this lens even more often if I had an R4x. But I guess that's just the GAS talking... :D

[ampguy]

If I didn't need the 21vf for my 15, I'd probably sell it. The whole VF works pretty well for the 21 on the M8, just a bit tight, like all the M8 lines ;)

[kemal_mumcu]

Great little lens - even for night stuff. :)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4028/4545945886_8e9090525e_o.jpg

[swatch]

I love it. it's small, rather sharp, quick to handle and I love the bit of a 'retro' look and vignetting wide open. I'm using it without viewfinder.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=21mm&w=26124575%40N04&ss=1&s=int

Hi Simon, you did excellent photos with 21mm lens ... amazing you did it without external vf and your the subjects ( people, dogs ... ) were all at the right place in the photos

[kossi008]

I just bought a C-Biogon 21/4.5 to replace my Skopar 21/4. And after a weekend of testing (shooting side-by-side), guess what? The Skopar stays, the C-Biogon gets sent back.

I don't really care if I cought a bad copy of the latter or a very good one of the former. Sharpness-wise, they were identical. :eek:

And I'm talking Orthopan, tripod, pixel-peeping on 4000 ppi scans here. If I hadn't kept notes, I'd have thought I forgot to swap lenses between shots...

Sure, sure, people will point out how the Biogon has zero distortion and is more flare-resistant etc. But for the money, the Skopar is a gem, folks!

[le vrai rdu]

little 21 mm gone fishing :D

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4044/4639653328_186bf15997_o.jpg

[lawrence]

I just bought a C-Biogon 21/4.5 to replace my Skopar 21/4. And after a weekend of testing (shooting side-by-side), guess what? The Skopar stays, the C-Biogon gets sent back.

I don't really care if I cought a bad copy of the latter or a very good one of the former. Sharpness-wise, they were identical. :eek:

And I'm talking Orthopan, tripod, pixel-peeping on 4000 ppi scans here. If I hadn't kept notes, I'd have thought I forgot to swap lenses between shots...

Sure, sure, people will point out how the Biogon has zero distortion and is more flare-resistant etc. But for the money, the Skopar is a gem, folks!

Very interesting. I'm being tempted by the C-Biogon because I don't like the vignetting on the Skopar. Did you see much difference in this area?

[35mmdelux]

For me, the 21 Skopar is a must have lens. I use the Leica 21mm finder and the combination works like a charm.

[kossi008]

Very interesting. I'm being tempted by the C-Biogon because I don't like the vignetting on the Skopar. Did you see much difference in this area?

To be honest, I didn't really pay any attention to vignetting, as it's never bothered me on the Skopar. All I can say is that there weren't any obvious differences, but that's on film. Do you shoot digital? Then maybe it's a different story...

[kossi008]

little 21 mm gone fishing :D


Brilliant. Keep up the good work!

[andreas]

Dear kossi008,

i had the same experience comparing my 21 skopar ltm to a friends zm biogon 2.8/21 on b&w film. We couldn`t tell the difference.
This lens is great, love the ergonomics. I can totally recommend dedicating a R4x body to this lens, it`s so good!

All the best,
andreas

[SimonSawSunlight]

little 21 mm gone fishing :D

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4044/4639653328_186bf15997_o.jpg

21mm seems to be a good focal length in these conditions, given the lack of space on a cutter =)
nice shot!

[SimonSawSunlight]

Hi Simon, you did excellent photos with 21mm lens ... amazing you did it without external vf and your the subjects ( people, dogs ... ) were all at the right place in the photos

thank you very much =)

[le vrai rdu]

21mm seems to be a good focal length in these conditions, given the lack of space on a cutter =)
nice shot!

yep, vrey useful

the external VF turned to be very performant, flared only once, when a huge spotlight (I mean vrey huge and powerfull) send light tangencialy to the VF , made a kind of tunnel vision , strange but I could still frame correctly :D

I had no problem of scratch on the VF even if the "lens" of it is quite proeminent

[35mmdelux]

I have the the M-mount 21 Skopar, not the LTM. Similar element structure but the M-mount ergonomics much like the 35mm/1.4 pre-asph.

[Stravinsky]

I got my "new" Skopar 21 today from the bare hands of an ebay seller that turned out lives in my town.
I am very excited and I have already shot a few pics in my lunch break.

I love the fact that the filter size is 39 so that I can switch filters with the Elmar 50...

[Florian1234]

This would be the next lens to buy for me, but not in the very near future since the M6 body punched a big hole in my money bag :D

[rbsinto]

I use a CV 21 on my S3s and SP, and often simply set hyperfocus to eliminate the need to focus, as well as shooting without looking through the accessory finder, (by holding the camera against my chest) just because the field of view is so wide.

[le vrai rdu]

http://cyrillerabiller.net/reportagechalutier/trix3200036.JPG

I was tired, forgot to move my finger far away from the lens

[helenhill]

Your last shot 'le vrai rdu' is Quite Fab Indeed !!
21's can Heighten such a magical roundness...Love It

[TheHub]

I bought the CS 21/4 a while back, and it's a very nice lens. The external viewfinder is nice and bright, and luckily it came with the lens (I don't think they do anymore.)

There are some issues I've had:
- the framelines on my viewfinder are crooked :rolleyes:
- the lens itself warps/stretches objects close to the camera, sometimes making things look flat
- the lens cap lettering came off, and the cushioning? inside the cap has crumpled from being taken on and off so many times

Still, for $300 I can hardly complain as it produces wonderful results (B&W, color neg and slides.) I picked up a used Bessa L last year for around $70, and the 21 now lives on it. A great wide-angle setup :)

[le vrai rdu]

http://cyrillerabiller.net/reportagechalutier/trix3200039.JPG

I have to admit this 21 has a lot of contrast (not juging with this picture because shot with a trix at 3200 iso, but from all the pictures I shot with)

[kossi008]

I was tired, forgot to move my finger far away from the lens

Hah! At least I'm not the only one to have this happen to me! :D

[je2a3]

- the framelines on my viewfinder are crooked :rolleyes:

I've experienced this issue and if you are handy, it is an easy fix. The lenses can be accessed by removing the recessed screws and once you have aligned the frame line lens put small pieces of blutak to hold it in place.

I love this lens specially for architectural and interior shots:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4367202621_d2f83c2633_o.jpg

[le vrai rdu]

http://cyrillerabiller.net/reportagechalutier/trix3200051.JPG

[ampguy]

"le front nationale right hand" might be a good title?

[le vrai rdu]

not exactly...........

[le vrai rdu]

http://cyrillerabiller.net/reportagechalutier/trix400094.JPG




http://cyrillerabiller.net/reportagechalutier/trix400073.JPG

[SimonSawSunlight]

"le front nationale right hand" might be a good title?

:confused: no, not really, really.

[Stravinsky]

First test roll with the 21 Color Skopar:



http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/7020/f1000009u.jpg (http://img191.imageshack.us/i/f1000009u.jpg/)

[helenhill]

SUPERB shot, Stravinsky !!!
Congrats on your New Acquisition
You understand the Lure & Charm of a 21 with ease....

[kossi008]

Oh yes, indeed.

[Tom A]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2043/2351663522_cbfee4f5ba_z.jpg

I have plenty of 21's (seem to gravitate to me, for some reason). The Color Skopar is often my "pocket lens" - small enough to sit in a jacket or vest pocket as a "just in case" lens. Performance is very good and considering the price, even extremely good. I also like that it uses 39 mm filters (I have lots of those). As with any wide-angle, you have to shoot yourself in with it. Usually a severe case of "wideitis" sets in initially - but after some time you get the idea of going in closer and filling the frame. The slower speed is not a problem in my opinion. You can handhold a 21 at 1/8 or even 1/4 of a second with some practice. I have the VC 21 both for my Nikon Rf kit and the M kit.

[kshapero]

One of my favorite lenses.

[ampguy]

I've noticed, and hoods won't help when shooting into the sun. Sometimes the multi-colored aperture flare pattern can be nice, but usually it doesn't result in a keeper for me.

If I shot 21 more often, I'd probably go for the Zeiss or Leica, but for casual use outside of direct sunlight, it's a great lens value. I'm on my 2nd one (LTM version), and it behaves like my first one did.


Just wonder how few people notice that this lens is very prone to flare.
Got mine recently, shot a roll using a Canon IVsb LTM, 1/4 of my shots were flared, even some I took indoors, when there's a light source nearby.
With a sunny sky you must be extremely careful. Will try the rectangular hood, hope it helps.

[JayM]

21mm is the hot fire :) Pictures in this thread just reminded to kick the 28 off the M4 for a while!

[Tom A]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/164/408308814_fb994c4378_z.jpg

This is Canada, even the dogs carry hockey sticks!
Color Skopar 21mm f4.0 LTM, Neopan Presto 400 in Beutler 1:1:8 for 10 min.

[semilog]

^-------- The quintessence of western Canada. Love it!

[Tom A]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6156/6182318701_041c2a88f7_o.jpg

A shot from last week-end. Vancouver's Olympic Village - now a high, some say overpriced, condo-development VC 21 mm f4.0 in M-mount. Arista Premium 400 in D96 for 7.5 min.

[yossarian123]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6204/6051674622_f923effd2c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelozanofam/6051674622/)
funk (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelozanofam/6051674622/) by SL_Photos (http://www.flickr.com/people/thelozanofam/), on Flickr