View Full Version : Pinhole Camera Artist - YUCK!
bmattock
04-29-2008, 12:42
Fair warning: this link may offend. It deals with an artist who makes high-end (read expensive and well-made) pinhole cameras and prints from those cameras, using items as precise as machine aluminum and as unusual as human body parts (graphic image in link). Don't click if that squicks you.
http://www.popphoto.com/photographynewswire/5262/belger-captures-images-through-skulls-infected-blood.html
I'm posting it because, well, it is interesting in a way, but man oh man did it squick me out. Others may feel differently.
sweathog
04-29-2008, 13:03
I find that quite fascinating. It shows a certain degree of involvement that people don't normally posess. There's almost a certain spirituality about it, as if by including these relics he seeks to appease the spirits.
Fascinating, fascinating.
Matthew Allen
04-29-2008, 13:11
Interesting, but ultimately sick I think. It's pretty disrespectful to turn human remains into cameras.
It's funny though - for years artists have insisted that their gear didn't matter and now here's someone for whom the camera is arguably more important than the subject matter since it is itself an 'artwork'.
What do you guys think of his photography? It leaves me pretty cold, but then conceptual art so often does.
Matthew
projectbluebird
04-29-2008, 13:11
I agree with sweathog, very fascinating. I was expecting something much different. No doubt from years of B-grade horror films.
rjporter
05-12-2008, 19:21
I read an article on this guy one time, i got the impression he was trying to be weird in art school and took it to a whole new level. He talked a lot about capturing the "essence" of the person or some such nonsense. i don't think i finished the article.
M. Valdemar
05-12-2008, 19:37
This guy is a mental case, and so is everyone who allows him to photograph them.
Chriscrawfordphoto
05-12-2008, 20:25
This guy is a mental case, and so is everyone who allows him to photograph them.
Agreed. How do people like this become art-world celebrities? It depresses me sometimes to see this kind of thing because I'm relatively normal and I feel sometimes that I have no chance at success as a result of my relative normality.
nikonhswebmaster
05-12-2008, 20:35
Agreed. How do people like this become art-world celebrities? It depresses me sometimes to see this kind of thing because I'm relatively normal and I feel sometimes that I have no chance at success as a result of my relative normality.
This guy is most decidedly NOT an art world celeb, few are paying any attention to him, except a few bloggers, and now this article. He shows in a gallery in Tucson, Arizona.
Gezz -- I spent the afternoon with a friend who got a Guggenheim fellowship last year, she is a normal sane person.
JUST DO YOUR WORK, and and stop referencing others, it is not productive for artists.
Edit, he did appear in B&W Magazine #53.
fdigital
05-12-2008, 20:46
I think it's pretty interesting. Just because you don't understand something or because it's a bit different doesn't mean you should immediately write it off.
I dont know whether to laugh or to cry when I see so called "modern artists" who piss in a bottle and call it art. (Or whatever.) For the most part I call it lack of talent combined with poor toilet training. What this guy is doing sounds as bad.
The guy is definately a fruitcake.
But its pretty stupid to totally write someone off, (or even give someone praise) based on half a dozen pictures of their work.
So far, i dont see his work any less relevant than the majority of crap i see produced by many successful self proclaimed "artists" these days. But i havent examined his body of work or even seen his entire series referred to in the example above, so i'm not prepared to make any real judgement yet. However it is quite different to anything i've seen before, so it does atleast have some sort of novely factor. Whether or not it's relevance or validity as a body of work has any artistic merit is a different story though.
I also dont see anything particularly horrendous about his methods either. Maybe someone who does find it disgusting can elaborate why, i'm genuinely interested.
amateriat
05-12-2008, 21:11
Whoo...and I thought Peter Greenaway had a sick train of thought...
(Throw in Arthur Tress and Robert Mapplethorpe too; just a couple of happy-go-lucky dudes compared to Belger.)
- Barrett
Chriscrawfordphoto
05-12-2008, 21:52
This guy is most decidedly NOT an art world celeb, few are paying any attention to him, except a few bloggers, and now this article. He shows in a gallery in Tucson, Arizona.
Gezz -- I spent the afternoon with a friend who got a Guggenheim fellowship last year, she is a normal sane person.
JUST DO YOUR WORK, and and stop referencing others, it is not productive for artists.
Edit, he did appear in B&W Magazine #53.
Calm down, my talk about fame was mostly tongue in cheek. You have to admit that it seems like the most extreme artists get a lot of the press (though not always the actual rewards as your normal friend's experience shows). I have a lot of time on my hands anyway, as I don't work a 'real' job so I can, amazingly enough, reference others AND do my work and do it well! LOL
Baldadash
05-12-2008, 22:34
http://www.boyofblue.com/cameras.html
The cameras seem a bit disturbing since he is using human skulls and HIV blood as opposed to oatmeal boxes, but the craftsmanship looks exceptional. I get "i wear black on the outside, because that's how I feel on the inside" from this guy, but that may just me being judgmental.
I usde my Hasselblad 500c/m as a pinhole camera (http://www.flickr.com/photos/art209/2485741326/). Some Haz fans on photonet would be more offended at that.
I dont know whether to laugh or to cry when I see so called "modern artists" who piss in a bottle and call it art. (Or whatever.) For the most part I call it lack of talent combined with poor toilet training. What this guy is doing sounds as bad.
Agreed! As Andy said, we each get our 15 minutes of fame.
nikonhswebmaster
05-13-2008, 05:02
Calm down, my talk about fame was mostly tongue in cheek. You have to admit that it seems like the most extreme artists get a lot of the press (though not always the actual rewards as your normal friend's experience shows). I have a lot of time on my hands anyway, as I don't work a 'real' job so I can, amazingly enough, reference others AND do my work and do it well! LOL
Actually I suppose in the popular press they do, like the urine stuff with Mayor Guliani in the NY Post, but really that is just trivial crap, not to be paid any more attention to than the ravings of the DNA tested fathers, on daytime television.
I do not ever buy newspapers since there is never much of interest in them, and I do not watch the nightly news, I pretty much stick to the art and writer's press. I currently work on a literary/art magazine, so I read enough about art etc.
Rick Waldroup
05-13-2008, 05:28
I really liked most of his pinhole images. I found the cameras he builds fascinating.
Spider67
05-13-2008, 07:44
It does not offend me ...and it's not that "modern" it's someway back to the times we ( aka "humanity") just stopped dwelling in caves.
I remember my first reaction when I saw human skulls and bones from Tibet made inro flutes and vessels. I was repulsed as I did not know that it was part of tibetan culture and not some satanist gimmick.
So for him it's back to the roots, magic thinking and a longing after times when all seemed to be simpler and shrouded in mystery. I've got to renew the garlic on my doorpost and chnage the horseshoe as my old one's become rusty.....
M. Valdemar
05-14-2008, 07:29
He would be well-suited to doing FX for horror movies or some sort of prop design.
I still think he's a mental case.
Teenagers who like Marilyn Manson and Goth costumes bought at WalMart might find his cameras impressive.
If I had a kid who died at birth I would not find it amusing to see his heart decorating a moron's camera.
I dont understand what people find so offensive about what he is doing!
Is it some kind of morality crisis or what? I thought dead people was done a long time ago, joel peter witkin and andre serrano among others, and you are still offended?
He produces his own cameras, some of them look a bit strange and he certinly has a own way of working photographicly. But what's wrong with that? He might be a bit eccentric but so are a lot of artists (for example, both Mozart and Van Gogh was very strange), it doesnt make him worse and it doesnt have to make him better either.
Of course it is large format pinhole photography, like in the good old days, and it isnt very street photography friendly. But do you people really have to diss him so much for doing pinholes?
I am a bit suprised to see so few acctually talking about his pictures.
Why the hositlity?
I mean people come on! have you seen his underwater photos? they must be beautiful printed!
bmattock
05-14-2008, 08:52
Why the hositlity?
Because putting a human baby's heart into a camera as a decoration is icky?
it "is" icky or you think it is icky? to me carrying dead animal skin as a handbag is worse since that animal died to become a handbag. Dead human hearts is just matter, I mean sure it is "strong" and quite provocative to have a human heart in an artwork but he isnt the first one to do something like that so the discusion isnt new in any way.
What i am trying to say:
he didnt kill a kid to use the heart in a camera, so what is so wrong? You dont know anything about how he aquired that heart. Why arent you equaliy offended by the 13 year old girls skull who is the body of another camera?
Joel Peter Witkin bought carcasses of unknown dead in Mexico to use in his "artwork".. all the extremes have been done to death (mind the pun) allready.
Lets talk about his photos instead?
The guy does seem a little bit nuts. His photographic work isn't bad, though. Not my kind of thing, but I can see why people might like it.
bmattock
05-14-2008, 09:14
it "is" icky or you think it is icky? to me carrying dead animal skin as a handbag is worse since that animal died to become a handbag. Dead human hearts is just matter, I mean sure it is "strong" and quite provocative to have a human heart in an artwork but he isnt the first one to do something like that so the discusion isnt new in any way.
OK, good point. It is icky 'to me'. It may not be 'new' but I find it icky - and the others as well.
So it is just a personal judgment on my part - but that's what opinions are.
bmattock
05-14-2008, 09:19
What i am trying to say:
he didnt kill a kid to use the heart in a camera, so what is so wrong?
I dunno, is a lampshade made out the tanned skins of jews from wwii german concentration camps wrong?
I think so.
You dont know anything about how he aquired that heart.
No, I don't. I actually don't really care, though. I find it icky no matter if he won it in a Publisher's House Sweepstakes drawing.
Why arent you equaliy offended by the 13 year old girls skull who is the body of another camera?
I am.
Joel Peter Witkin bought carcasses of unknown dead in Mexico to use in his "artwork".. all the extremes have been done to death (mind the pun) allready.
Lets talk about his photos instead?
If it is only his photos that matter, then why does he want to have cameras made in this fashion? It appears that the artist wants his cameras and the manner in which he makes and uses them to be considered part and parcel with the art he makes with them. I understand that.
But since the cameras are part of the 'exhibit' as well, then they are subject to scrutiny and opinion as well as the photos. And I find them icky.
The photos - eh, they're pinhole photos. Nice, but pretty much seen one, seen 'em all. To me. I know pinhole photographers are keen on them, so I mean no disrespect - they just don't do that much for me.
I would love to hear what he has to say about the middle aged male who goes out and buys a 10,000 dollar leica set up, stashes it all in his $500 billingham bag, and walks around taking pictures of homeless people and women running across the street.
Matthew Allen
05-14-2008, 09:45
What i am trying to say:
he didnt kill a kid to use the heart in a camera, so what is so wrong? You dont know anything about how he aquired that heart.
You do if you read the article:
The heart, donated by a gallery owner who found it among a collection of old anatomy equipment, is preserved in a sealed compartment at the rear of the camera.
Just because people are long dead doesn't make it acceptable to parade parts of their body around for 'art' IMO. Would you be happy for your remains to be used this way? I wouldn't.
Matthew
But since the cameras are part of the 'exhibit' as well, then they are subject to scrutiny and opinion as well as the photos. And I find them icky.
Of course you are right. The cameras is part of the exhibit. I was just fascinated by the care he takes into manufacturing these cameras. The fact that cameras and photography is so available to any one these days and he goes right back to the birth of photography and creates pinholes, a very basic camera, and then fashions them out so well and even has a special purpose and subject in mind for each camera.
A lot of people have done pinholes before of course, but .. i dont know. the crazyness of his projects and the ideas behind the cameras to me are fascinating enough, even if i dont approve of everything he has to say.
His photos are very pinhole-y.. I dont know. They are for viewing live i suspect, the internet jpg dont quite do it for me. I am in period of being very fascinated of the "physicallity" of photography and maybe thats why I am so impressed by a
largeformat pinhole 1 hour exposure under water by a home made camera.
I just dont get all the hating
You do if you read the article:
Just because people are long dead doesn't make it acceptable to parade parts of their body around for 'art' IMO. Would you be happy for your remains to be used this way? I wouldn't.
Matthew
I wouldnt be able to care since I would be dead..
And i wouldnt care either if someone told me today that they would use my body once I am dead.
Frankly, once the person is dead, the body to me is nothing but an empty box. That is not to say I would want to see my dead grand mother be sold as filles at the market (that would be icky)
Matthew Allen
05-14-2008, 10:00
(that would be icky)
Well exactly, that's how I feel. I don't believe that the body is anything more than flesh and bone and squishy bits once it's dead, but that doesn't mean I want creepy artists playing with mine. It's not rational but then who says I have to be?
I might consider donating my corpse to science (maybe) and I do carry an organ donor card but I draw the line at being turned into a camera. Re the hating, I don't hate the guy but equally I wouldn't especially enjoy being stuck in a lift with him.:)
Matthew
M. Valdemar
05-14-2008, 10:08
I didn't critique his work or comment on the morality.
I said I wouldn't like my kid's heart to be used to decorate his camera.
I also said that I thought he was a mental case.
I stand by those two statements. Maybe his pinhole work is good, or maybe he has a lot of suckers who fall for his schtick. More power to him.
There was also Barnum's side show, Professor Wormwood's Monkey Theatre at Luna Park, Hubert's Museum and more.
In Europe for hundreds of years, gypsies purposely maimed and mutilated children so they would look pathetic when they begged for money. This was regarded as simply good business sense.
I didn't critique his work or comment on the morality.
I said I wouldn't like my kid's heart to be used to decorate his camera.
I also said that I thought he was a mental case.
Maybe he is a mental case, a lot of great artists are and have been. Im not saying that he is a great artist but you make it sound like the two are uncombinable.
There was also Barnum's side show, Professor Wormwood's Monkey Theatre at Luna Park, Hubert's Museum and more.
In Europe for hundreds of years, gypsies purposely maimed and mutilated children so they would look pathetic when they begged for money. This was regarded as simply good business sense.
And what does that have anything to do with this? and could you please give me a source on that statement on gypsies (I suppose you mean the Roma people?). It sound like old racist propaganda to me and I dont know why you are even bringing it into this discusion.
bmattock
05-14-2008, 10:58
I would love to hear what he has to say about the middle aged male who goes out and buys a 10,000 dollar leica set up, stashes it all in his $500 billingham bag, and walks around taking pictures of homeless people and women running across the street.
I don't know, and don't really care. But I will note this - your assumptions about me are about 80% incorrect.
Yes, I am a middle-aged male. I don't own a Leica, I don't have a Billingham bag, and I don't take photos of homeless people or women running across the street.
Not sure what the point of that cheap shot was. I said I found his cameras 'icky' - from that you got that I was a rich effete snob? You'd have been closer guessing that I'm a middle-aged wage slave who drinks cheap beer and goes bowling.
bmattock
05-14-2008, 11:03
I just dont get all the hating
Hate is just strong emotion. It is a perfectly reasonable response in the range of opinions. Hatred is an irrational response to many situations, but not opinion. If I'm allowed to 'love' someone's work or methods, I'm allowed to 'hate' them as an alternative.
I hate his cameras, and that's my opinion. I've tried to explain why. My opinion does not make me right - it just makes it my opinion.
I'm sorry if you don't 'get it' but I'm don't think my opinion is going to change on this.
Blake Werts
05-14-2008, 13:22
I would love to hear what he has to say about the middle aged male who goes out and buys a 10,000 dollar leica set up, stashes it all in his $500 billingham bag, and walks around taking pictures of homeless people and women running across the street.
This is amusing! [and I don't think that this was directed towards bmattock... I read it as "he" being the artist that is being discussed...?]
I do find fascinating the guy's decision to display both his prints and the cameras as art. I can relate, in at least one way, in that I've fashioned dozens of pinhole cameras over the years, and am as proud of my hacked-together monstrosities as he probably is. Mine certainly aren't as finely crafted, or as contraversial.
Aside from the controvery over human body parts, I think it's one thing unique about pinholers, the hand-crafted camera part is at least as important as the resulting image. Sometimes the camera and image are inseperable, as in some images I remember seeing in the now-defunct Pinhole Journal, of anti-war subjects made with a camera constructed from a rubber Ronald Reagan mask. I don't necessarily agree with the sentament of the artist vis-a-vis the anti-war theme, but I can appreciate how important the camera's style and the theme of the resulting images are interrelated.
Interesting discussion.
~Joe
bmattock
05-14-2008, 14:43
Interesting discussion.
Indeed. I find it interesting that the artist clearly wants to generate interest and discussion (perhaps safe to say 'controversy'?) due to the nature of his cameras, yet we, the public, seem to be discouraged from saying we don't like it - at least in the presence of those here on RFF who *do* like it.
Could it be that the artist went to all this effort to make a camera with a human baby's hear in it, and expected NO COMMENT, NO CONTROVERSY about it? I'd have to say that he's pretty much DEMANDING attention from the public. And that's cool. I'm hip to the concept. I just don't like what he's done. In fact, I dislike it very much, yea, unto hatred.
If a person asks me if I like something and I say 'no', so what? Am I required to like it (or at least to withhold my opinion) just because it is art? Just because it is controversial? Just because the artist clearly put a huge amount of effort into it?
I'm allowed to say that in my opinion something sucks. And it does (in my opinion). So there you go. Hate, as they say. I guess that's bad. Some like it, I don't. Life goes on.
nikonhswebmaster
05-14-2008, 15:38
Body parts are all relative I suppose to our feeling about others.
I was discussing this issue with my GF one day recently while looking at mummies at the Metropolitan Museum in NY. These people believed, firmly that at the end of days, they would need their body, and went to extremes to preserve it. "We" decide that our religion is better than theirs -- and destroy their afterlife?
M. Valdemar
05-14-2008, 15:40
http://www.middle-east-online.com/English/?id=22647
"Organised African gangs deliberately mutilate these child beggars before sending them into Saudi Arabia," Mecca police spokesman Abdul Mohsen al-Mimaan was quoted as saying September 27 in the Saudi pan-Arab daily Asharq Al-Awsat.
"These Africans practice the trade of children who have an arm or a leg amputated or whose body is burned with incendiary materials," Mimaan said.
As the work continued Swapan contacted Amnesty International, Equality Now, and other human rights organizations for assistance. In 2000 the Muktaneer Children’s Home was opened so that the children who did not have a home to return to, or whose families were too poor to care for them, would have a place to live. Since that time CCD has been integral in bringing 54 child traffickers before the courts for prosecution and has rescued almost 2,000 children from a horrific array of abusive situations, including mutilation by begging rings to make them more effective at soliciting alms.
http://stopchildslavery.com/2007/06/14/children-as-chattel-child-labor-trafficking-in-india/
http://books.google.com/books?id=19PAaF-x-98C&pg=PA136&lpg=PA136&dq=child+mutilation+begging&source=web&ots=_-9UBuYemk&sig=pozIB5fssjdVM0hDxwsBt8gg1qI&hl=en
.
I find his photos and themes to be booth relevant and interesting. He is looking at AIDS for example, and like most artists do, finding different ways to frame (no pun intended) the existing dialogue that exists.
If it makes one feel icky, that seems like a normal response. But to call the man a nutjob seems dismissive and very presumptive.
Me thinks your net is cast very wide for mental cases then.
So a pregnant women who has an interest in doing "experimental" photography with a pinhole camera artist is insane?
Seems a lot of the art world is insane then, this does not seem that provocative to me.
This guy is a mental case, and so is everyone who allows him to photograph them.
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