View Full Version : How many Leica M8's do you currently own?
ZebGoesZeiss
03-14-2008, 03:09
This is one of the questions that I've wondered about. Just how many M8's are owned by the RFF crowd? There are supposedly 20,000+ of these out there, but how many of these cameras do RFF "represent"?
Hey, I just learned I can see who voted for what.
Oh, I am a zero.
Only if the poll is set up that way, Moderator :)
We are missing -1 (meaning I would sell it immediately if I had one).
I've always been skeptical of polling data...
Three people here own FOUR M8's? :eek: :confused:
I've always been skeptical of polling data...
Three people here own FOUR M8's? :eek: :confused:
as my photo teacher sometimes calls me.....rich bit** but thats just because im such a quality kind of guy har har....:cool:
but really...who the heck?
If they really do......
do you need to adopt a son? maybe take on an uncle? need a chauffer?
Zero, as in 0.0000. I'm scared off by the price, the IR issue, and trouble reports, as in "My M8 just died." I bought a D200 instead; but my favorite digitals are the Digilux 2 and the D-Lux3.
Edit: Why would you need four M8s? Let's see: One in the shop, one to shoot with, and one as a spare; but what is the fourth one for?
Benjamin Marks
03-14-2008, 07:27
No choice for a baker's dozen? Seriously though, I know of two photogs who I believe have two apiece -- both are working pros.
I haven't voted. Makes me queasy.
Ben Marks
Oh, I am a zero
Curses! I've just checked, and I'm a zero too :(
Gabriel M.A.
03-14-2008, 07:38
No choice for a baker's dozen?
I haven't voted. Makes me queasy.
Aye.
I'll wait for the "how many fingers do you currently use?" poll :angel:
bmattock
03-14-2008, 07:51
I have an M9.
I've always been skeptical of polling data...
Three people here own FOUR M8's? :eek: :confused:
There are four now and I can vouch for all of them, it has to be true anyway it’s the internet
:)
I have an M9.
Is it less noisy than the M8?
bobkonos
03-14-2008, 08:04
How many of them work and have NOT been returned to Leica for repair???
bmattock
03-14-2008, 08:04
Is it less noisy than the M8?
Um, sometimes. But other times, it is REALLY loud. I take it you have seen the M9 yourself.
leica M2 fan
03-14-2008, 08:08
To one of the mods, please remove me from the poll stating "one" I have no M8's place me in zero. Operator error and not reading correctly. :bang:
Zero, as in 0.0000. I'm scared off by the price, the IR issue, and trouble reports, as in "My M8 just died." I bought a D200 instead; but my favorite digitals are the Digilux 2 and the D-Lux3.
Edit: Why would you need four M8s? Let's see: One in the shop, one to shoot with, and one as a spare; but what is the fourth one for?
....to put in the same climate controlled vault where the sealed and packaged M3ds, M3ss, M2, M1, M4, M4-2, M4p, M5-2lug, M5-3lug, M6, M6ttl, M6 gold, M6j, all other M6s and M7 have been waiting...?
:)
With this thread question, are we talking about the real-world or my fantasy-world?
Um, sometimes. But other times, it is REALLY loud. I take it you have seen the M9 yourself.
only to look at, didn’t get a go
Gabriel M.A.
03-14-2008, 09:00
There are a lot of hanging chads in this poll.
I move for a recount.
There are a lot of hanging chads in this poll.
I move for a recount.
hanging’s too good for them………I’d have them shot :mad:
CameraQuest
03-14-2008, 09:31
This is one of the questions that I've wondered about. Just how many M8's are owned by the RFF crowd? There are supposedly 20,000+ of these out there, but how many of these cameras do RFF "represent"?
my sources say about 12,000 sold
and M8 sales have hit a brick wall in many marketplaces since the price hikes towards the end of last year.
Stephen
sonofdanang
03-14-2008, 09:42
I have an M9.
In .45 ACP or 9mm?
my sources say about 12,000 sold
and M8 sales have hit a brick wall in many marketplaces since the price hikes towards the end of last year.
Stephen
Well there ya go.. now, inevitably, someone (who owns an M8) will come out and passionately state one of three things:
1) Do you own an M8 Stephen???? If you don't, your opinion (or information) doesn't count for squat here!! :D
2) Oh.. your information is incorrect, my Leica Dealer told me himself that Leica sales are extremely brisk and he can't keep them in stock because they sell out so fast so I had better get one while the gettin' was good !!
3) Why are we even concerned about numbers or problems or anything - just go out and take photos with the camera and you'll love it !!!
hmmm.. now that I look at that... basically every single "here's what's wrong with the M8" or "M8 problems" or "M8 (insert phrase here)" thread can be refuted by one (or all) of those three statements above :D
Cheers,
Dave
sonofdanang
03-14-2008, 09:49
Ha ha! I love it!
Gabriel M.A.
03-14-2008, 09:50
Well there ya go.. now, inevitably, someone (who owns an M8) will come out and passionately state one of three things:
You forgot #4: "I like pie".
I really really like pie. And, as a matter of fact today is Pi Day! (http://www.piday.org/), and Friday, to boot. I mean, TG. :D
sonofdanang
03-14-2008, 09:57
But you can't jus have Pi. You have to do something with it!!!
-Waiting for the light in the Yukon
Zero for me. I would like a digital rangefinder but too many people I know have had problems with them. Why would I buy a camera that I have to send back two, three or FOUR times to get a working model? I look forward to a bug free M9...
Gabriel M.A.
03-14-2008, 10:43
But you can't jus have Pi. You have to do something with it!!!
Bake it to a Golden Ratio perfection?
le vrai rdu
03-14-2008, 12:31
lolilol au lidl :p:bang:
John Noble
03-14-2008, 12:53
No M8 for me until they have a full frame sensor upgrade. And the sensor better have silver halide in it.
I like pie too, but COOKIES rule.
Can I have my pony now?
photomoof
03-14-2008, 13:31
I've always been skeptical of polling data...
Three people here own FOUR M8's? :eek: :confused:
I actually own a half dozen, but the limit was 4.
There is about one week between breakdowns, and it takes about 6 weeks to get one back from Leica, so you need six to keep the flow going.
Au contraire, Sonofdanang, you can have your Pi and enumerate it:
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79
Regards,
Alex.
... approximately
john_nyc
03-14-2008, 15:40
One here... but I just bought an MP (boxed/warrantied "demo" w/ M6-style ISO wheel) today to keep it company.
Frank Petronio
03-14-2008, 16:23
Maybe Tony Rose or Rich Pinto own four M8s...
I'm a bit puzzled at al the alledgedly "funny posts" here. I have two, I use them to make photographs, about 10.000 up to now, they gave me minimal to no trouble and I only had to have one have the standard recall in December 2006 and the other I crashed in October last year so it had to be repaired.- Oh yes - and I am an amateur so I don't have any clients to answer to. What is all the silly hoohah in this thread about?
12000 M8's ... wow that's not not many cameras over the period they've been on sale. It's hard to classify the M8 as a success based on those figures if you're being abjective and how many of the twelve thousand have been resold by people who realised it wasn't what they wanted after all?
I've always been skeptical of polling data...
Three people here own FOUR M8's? :eek: :confused:
I am one of those, but my poll response is no longer valid since I just purchased another one today (the M8 and 28 cron kit) for a total of 5...
Riccis
I am one of those, but my poll response is no longer valid since I just purchased another one today (the M8 and 28 cron kit) for a total of 5...
Riccis
According to my calculations that means you now own .041666666% of the total M8 population out there. :eek:
photomoof
03-14-2008, 17:40
I'm a bit puzzled at al the alledgedly "funny posts" here. I have two, I use them to make photographs, about 10.000 up to now, they gave me minimal to no trouble and I only had to have one have the standard recall in December 2006 and the other I crashed in October last year so it had to be repaired.- Oh yes - and I am an amateur so I don't have any clients to answer to. What is all the silly hoohah in this thread about?
Oh who knows, we are all willing to waste vast sums of money on really inferior cars, and yet the M8 seems to draw a crowd of people (sometimes including me) who cannot quite believe the price.
You do have to admit having $11,000 USD in just two camera bodies is worthy of note? But as expensive digital cameras, for a specialized market, is is not high. The Hassy H3DII-39, 39 Megapixel, @ $34,000 makes the M8 look cheap.
I admit the M8 is not for me, I would much prefer a G9 for the street, and if I did decide to shoot digital landscapes would probably end up with a BetterLight scan back.
But no -- the m8 is not THAT funny. Spitzer is funny
infocusf8@earthlink.
03-14-2008, 18:51
I own an M8 and if I could afford a second one I'd buy it. No problems, no returns, just good images and a lot of fun using it, so if that makes me a Leica M8 fanatic so be it.
spiffy idea: push the up arrow to instantly display the iso menu, down arrow for exposure compensation. if it isn't in the next firmware upgrade, i'll personally go to wetzlar and dance naked outside the gate until they make this ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL improvement.
It's surprising to note that almost 11% of respondents have two or more M8 cameras. With film cameras, a second body is a good way to mix film types or carry a second focal length quickly available.
To those who have more than one M8: Why? The film reason is out; carry both cameras with different lenses, or...?
Pretty useful to have backup if you are out in the bush with no easy access to any camerastores. Twice the same body is more practical than one of one kind and one of the other. In an ideal world the backup would be a digital CL, provided it takes the same batteries. And of course, different focal lengths as you say, but a bit extravagant to have two for just that reason imo.
pizzahut88
03-16-2008, 17:30
Perhaps someone could post a pics of their 4 M8 side by side?
Who needs four of the same?
hanging’s too good for them………I’d have them shot :mad:
Shootings much to quick.:bang:
I'm a bit puzzled at al the alledgedly "funny posts" here. I have two, I use them to make photographs, about 10.000 up to now, they gave me minimal to no trouble and I only had to have one have the standard recall in December 2006 and the other I crashed in October last year so it had to be repaired.- Oh yes - and I am an amateur so I don't have any clients to answer to. What is all the silly hoohah in this thread about?
If you had a National newspaper holding a space for a pic from a major incident then you would realise this is not silly 'hoohah'. I used to carry an M6 with a 35 just incase my Nikons 'failed' And they sometimes did......2 brand new F90xs in 1996 in the middle of a riot both died. I phoned Nikon from the incident and all I got was the usual automated answering so I held up the phone to record the noise going on around me and told the recording machine at Nikon UK what manure their new cameras were. (They biked two new ones down to me the next morning thankfully) but without the M6 I wouldn't have had any pics at all Can't see anybody trusting an M8 in that way now.
I wish I could afford an M8... That'd be nice.
Pherdinand
03-17-2008, 03:42
sorry folks, I felt it is too much of a showing-off poll so I voted for 4.
In reality i own no m8.
If i would own 4 m8's i would sell them all (and buy a mamiya 6 sistem e.g., + with lifetime supply of film and developer. And a few nice holidays.)
These Grunningers are unassuming people;):p
If you had a National newspaper holding a space for a pic from a major incident then you would realise this is not silly 'hoohah'. I used to carry an M6 with a 35 just incase my Nikons 'failed' And they sometimes did......2 brand new F90xs in 1996 in the middle of a riot both died. I phoned Nikon from the incident and all I got was the usual automated answering so I held up the phone to record the noise going on around me and told the recording machine at Nikon UK what manure their new cameras were. (They biked two new ones down to me the next morning thankfully) but without the M6 I wouldn't have had any pics at all Can't see anybody trusting an M8 in that way now.
Read again, mate, I did not say having backup is silly hoohah, just the opposite - I said all the ridiculing comments on multiple M8-s were....
Pherdinand
03-17-2008, 03:56
jaap: no no:) dont misunderstand me
i have no problem with people who have M8('s). I'm glad some can afford and are passionate enough about it so they buy them.
Especially since i got a pack of free film from you when you "went M8ital" :D (i still have a few sensia's and they still work fine!)
bottley1
03-17-2008, 13:15
Blimey! Isn't one enough! Colour, Black & White, InfraRed, a choice of ISO settings - all in one handy package
There is a higher than average percentage of rich on this forum.
I can't afford such an expensive piece of machinery.
And in my humble view high cost is not its only fault.
edrodgers731
03-18-2008, 06:51
I've been reading this forum for a few days now. I've read here that the M8 is an amateur camera for rich people. I personally would think that the majority of M8 users would be professionals, with a few rich enthusiasts mixed in.
It seems that if people are asking why someone would need more than one M8, they are probably in the rich enthusiast crowd. It surprises me that the rich enthusiasts seem to be dominant here. The only people I know personally that use Leica are pros.
A professional will always have more than one body on hand, and usually three or more.
For me, that means that I have 2 Canon 5Ds, a 20D, and my new M8 with me on the job. I've got backup lenses, flashes, batteries, memory cards.. I wish I could have a backup car with me too. (maybe I should think about buying a tow truck!) Heck, I even carry a backup photographer with me on the job.
And I'm not even a big time professional. Just one of many local struggling professionals.
As far as being reliable.. Okay, maybe statistically it has issues, but so do my 5Ds, and the 1DIII, and probably the 1DsIII, which were my second choice after the M8. Lately everyone is screaming about the mirrors falling out of the 5Ds! But I saw one poll here about sending the M8 out for "repairs" and the vast majority never had a problem. I'd guess most of those "repairs" were simply calibrating the focus after reading this forum. I'd do that myself.
Many of you guys are spoiled by Leica. The same people that think the Noctilux is too big and heavy.. Try lugging around a 1Ds with a 50 1.2 on it. Imagine me with 2 5Ds around my neck with a 4 and a half pound 70-200 2.8 and a half ton 28-70 2.8. At the end of the day my back is killing me!
Shoot and be happy. Make up your own mind about owning an M8, and realize that your own mind is the only place your decision is valid.
photomoof
03-18-2008, 07:14
I've been reading this forum for a few days now. I've read here that the M8 is an amateur camera for rich people. I personally would think that the majority of M8 users would be professionals, with a few rich enthusiasts mixed in.
That is just not true. Perhaps sadly. The vast majority of all current Leica sales are to advanced amateurs.
Which is not to say many Pros do not own a Leica, they do. But they are not the backbone of sales for any professional camera company. They do provide the image for the companies, and are important to please.
Ask the Leica sales reps next time you are at a show, that is where my info comes from.
0 and I feel fine.
I don,t have to worry about updates and small sensors and black appearing green or magentha or what ever.
edrodgers731
03-18-2008, 07:31
Which is not to say many Pros do not own a Leica, they do. But they are not the backbone of sales for any professional camera company. They do provide the image for the companies, and are important to please.
That's very interesting. But wouldn't advanced amateurs who are the backbone of sales prefer to buy some other Leica, such as a Digi-Lux? With Canon, which I am more familiar with, there is a camera model for every market. Advanced amateurs will not buy Canon's flagship, which is I guess now the 1DsIII, they will buy a Rebel, or a 40D. I'm sure Canon makes a fortune on the Rebels, and not so much on the 1DsIII.
I guess with Leica, the customers just want the best, price be darned. There just won't be as many customers.
I wish I could justify having two, because that's how I always used to go with my film M's. But the # of occasions I actually wore both at once was negligible, and half the reason for doing so (different film type) is moot with digital. I don't travel that often or that far from civilization to justify sinking $5-5.5K into a backup. Maybe at some point down the road, if there is no really-improved new model on the horizon and I can pick up a used one for say $2K and then have it upgraded and get a year's warranty, I might give it some thought. Perhaps I should've kept my R-D1 as a backup, but I was skeptical it would be any more reliable than the M8. So I make do with a DLux-3 backup.
photomoof
03-18-2008, 08:52
That's very interesting. But wouldn't advanced amateurs who are the backbone of sales prefer to buy some other Leica, such as a Digi-Lux? With Canon, which I am more familiar with, there is a camera model for every market. Advanced amateurs will not buy Canon's flagship, which is I guess now the 1DsIII, they will buy a Rebel, or a 40D. I'm sure Canon makes a fortune on the Rebels, and not so much on the 1DsIII.
I guess with Leica, the customers just want the best, price be darned. There just won't be as many customers.
Well I think they would, but Leica has not built a camera directed at the amateur since the CL. The Panasonics just have not sold, since Leica is not in the mainstream stores with them. Lumix branded cameras far outsell the Lieca branded Panasonics (price on the Leicas is also too high). Leica buyers seem to continue to want "made in Germany"
As for cameras like the Rebel, they sell in staggering numbers, but so does the 5D. Canon has made far more 5Ds than they could ever sell to pros.
The 1DsIII might be an exception, it would be interesting in a store like B&H to see how many are bought by individuals as opposed to those with company identities. My guess is plenty of amateurs are forking out the money, one thing for sure, it is being reviewed in all the amateur press, both print and online, as though it was a Rebel in price.
edrodgers731
03-18-2008, 09:18
half the reason for doing so (different film type) is moot with digital.
Of course, when I moved to digital several years ago, I immediately found another reason to have multiple bodies:
Sensor dust.
One body for each lens would be great if I could afford/carry it.
I spend a bunch of time blowing dust out of my 5Ds, just from changing a lens a couple times a month in a controlled environment.
In the "old" days with film, my backup bodies would be in a bag somewhere, and I just swapped lenses as desired.
Digital was what made me carry multiple bodies around my neck.
(Of course, I didn't vary my film stock on a job..)
That's very interesting. But wouldn't advanced amateurs who are the backbone of sales prefer to buy some other Leica, such as a Digi-Lux? With Canon, which I am more familiar with, there is a camera model for every market. Advanced amateurs will not buy Canon's flagship, which is I guess now the 1DsIII, they will buy a Rebel, or a 40D. I'm sure Canon makes a fortune on the Rebels, and not so much on the 1DsIII.
I guess with Leica, the customers just want the best, price be darned. There just won't be as many customers.
I doubt they would like to buy Panaleica's .Speaking for myself, the only reason I bought a Digilux2 (a very nice camera btw, which I cannot persuade myself to sell) was because there was no digital M on the market.
There are three main reasons to buy an M8:
1. Because one wants to use a rangefinder camera and wants to be digital
2. Because one wants to use Leica M lenses in the digital world
3. Because one is wedded/attracted to the M type of camera and its ergonomics, feel and looks and wants to shoot digital.
Usually these reasons are interwoven.
Whether a Leica is "the best" is open to debate. That depends to a large extent on the expectations and needs of the user. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, Sony, Leica, all of those are pretty good cameras, and which one is "the best" for a certain use and user is for each of us to decide for himself.
edrodgers731
03-18-2008, 09:30
As for cameras like the Rebel, they sell in staggering numbers, but so does the 5D. Canon has made far more 5Ds than they could ever sell to pros.
I guess it's all relative. There are staggering numbers of 5Ds sold compared to other companies, but not compared to Rebels and 20/30/40Ds. Just look at the stats on Flickr.
I can count on one hand the number of 5Ds I've seen in the hands of tourists, but I couldn't count on a thousand hands the number of Rebels I've seen. I suppose it's true though that the 5D is marketed to advanced amateurs. It's amazing to me that the 5D is not considered a pro camera, even by Canon. What? A little water proofing and an extra card slot makes a pro?
When I carry a 5D around, I get lots of awe from the amateurs. Hopefully when I start carrying my M8 around, I'll get lots of "What the heck is that plastic thing? Can't you afford a real camera?"
:)
Of course, when I moved to digital several years ago, I immediately found another reason to have multiple bodies:
Sensor dust.
One body for each lens would be great if I could afford/carry it.
I spend a bunch of time blowing dust out of my 5Ds, just from changing a lens a couple times a month in a controlled environment.
That's interesting, because I've never had that problem. My first interchangable-lensed digital was a Fuji S1-PRO, followed by Canon D30, D60. 1D and finally 20D bodies (all bought used, one generation behind) and now the M8. Believe it or not I have never cleaned the sensors on any of them, in fact I can count on the fingers of one hand the # of times I've even used a blower bulb , and I do not have dust specks on my shots. Most of my photography is out doors also. Admittedly there isn't as much lens-changing with the dslr's because of zooms but I use Pentax primes with adaptors also. One thing I have always done religiously was turn the camera off before removing the lens. I'm not sure if that helps but I was told it did. It does slow things down some, but I'm not a pro who has to swap lenses in a hurry to catch a fleeting shot.
edrodgers731
03-18-2008, 09:40
I do not have dust specks on my shots.
I like to shoot wide angle into the sun a lot to show off my nice L lenses, and that often leads to f16, f22, etc. Shots of the sky at small apertures will always reveal SOMETHING on the sensor. And also, admittedly, most of the time I'm trying to blow out sticky dust in the corners that never knocks loose. I will never stop trying though! :)
I guess I won't have to worry about it with my M8 because I only have the one Leica lens, and that will be shot at f1.0 as much as possible!
photomoof
03-18-2008, 09:53
"I've been reading this forum for a few days now. I've read here that the M8 is an amateur camera for rich people."
this one sadly never goes away... i've been listening to it for eons it seems
Well sadly that is true, or people of more modest income, who are willing to spend a lot of their hard earned cash on a camera system. It was once a mainstream pro camera, as were rangefinders in general from Contax and Nikon.
But the predominant new market for new Leicas now, are artists like Nan Golden and advanced amateurs. Of course there are exceptions to every generalization, but even among pros the Leica has become the camera for relaxation, not the working tool of choice. However there are just as many great photos being made with Leica as there ever were.
The "professional" in creative life is not as important a distinction as it once was. Thousands will graduate with arts and photography degrees this year, and make photographs which are part of our culture, but never sell them. The lines of what defines art are blurred.
Leica and Nikon rangefinders were, at one time, at every news event, now they are very rare. Next time you see an event look for the rangefinder, not a one in sight. Sad maybe?
edrodgers731
03-18-2008, 09:55
Also, yes, you are absolutely correct about shutting down the camera before swapping lenses. A charged sensor is like an electro-dust-magnet.
Of course, my 5Ds are very finicky about changing lenses with the power on. The software in the 5D is not extremely robust IMO. I've had flashes go wacky on me too which required a "reboot".
I am hooked on digital, but at the same time I like simplicity, control, and quality. That's why I'm attracted to the M8. I doubt it will be more than an auxiliary camera in the midst of a wedding, just for a couple of portraits and a few shots in available dark receptions, but I know I will obsess over it for personal use. In a year, who knows? Maybe I'll just bring 4 M8s to a wedding! :)
Gabriel M.A.
03-18-2008, 13:01
12000 M8's ... wow that's not not many cameras over the period they've been on sale. It's hard to classify the M8 as a success based on those figures if you're being abjective
Yes, if you're being abjective, probably. ;)
But if you're being objective, you could see how 12,000 of a nonmainstream, not-for-the-masses SLR or P&S Era high-end/cost camera is not too shabby.
photomoof
03-18-2008, 21:32
Well Emraphoto, no argument, everything you say is right, but I think you misunderstand the concept of the Dentist's camera, in buyer's slang.
In Leicaese that means an older camera that is mint, such as an M2 because someone who was not a pro brought it and used it very gently, if at all. It is slang for a mint body.
Your broad definition of a professional using the Leica is not quite what is meant by a professional photographer, but it is pretty much the current user group, and certainly an interesting one.
There are a lot of users however on the RFF that fall into the "Dentist" mentality, they cover their cameras with fancy cases, wonder how to buff out small marks, and worry about the resale, because they are not deducting the camera from their income tax. If your camera is not tax deductible you are not really using it professionally, however you could still be a professional who owns one.
Think of Leica as the discerning person's camera, the way I think of Macs. Perhaps dentists knew something all along? Dentists are the ones who should be upset, after all they use photography professionally all day!
"I've been reading this forum for a few days now. I've read here that the M8 is an amateur camera for rich people."
this one sadly never goes away... i've been listening to it for eons it seems
It's just a last resort for leica to put them on the tracks again.
But it won't work with a product like the M8
Well Emraphoto, no argument, everything you say is right, but I think you misunderstand the concept of the Dentist's camera, in buyer's slang.
In Leicaese that means an older camera that is mint, such as an M2 because someone who was not a pro brought it and used it very gently, if at all. It is slang for a mint body.
Your broad definition of a professional using the Leica is not quite what is meant by a professional photographer, but it is pretty much the current user group, and certainly an interesting one.
There are a lot of users however on the RFF that fall into the "Dentist" mentality, they cover their cameras with fancy cases, wonder how to buff out small marks, and worry about the resale, because they are not deducting the camera from their income tax. If your camera is not tax deductible you are not really using it professionally, however you could still be a professional who owns one.
Think of Leica as the discerning person's camera, the way I think of Macs. Perhaps dentists knew something all along? Dentists are the ones who should be upset, after all they use photography professionally all day!
Sorry, the M8 stays at home, I use a DMR/R9 for that....I'm not upset, I call myself Photograper/Dentist and work to finance my hobby! ;)
After reading all these posts, I still don't understand why would anyone need FOUR or more Leica M8 cameras, unless you are a dealer? Even for a Pro shooter it seems way too much as far as I see it. And if reliability is so poor (and I'm not saying that it is) that some people feel the need to have that many back ups - I'd simply switch to a more reliable camera. But thats just me.
No M8 for me. Would I like one - maybe, but would have to try one first and even than I'm not sure I'd get one. But if one feel off the truck and right onto my lap......I wouldn't say no to it. ;)
There are a lot of users however on the RFF that fall into the "Dentist" mentality, they cover their cameras with fancy cases, wonder how to buff out small marks, and worry about the resale, because they are not deducting the camera from their income tax....Dentists are the ones who should be upset, after all they use photography professionally all day!
It's a safe bet that most dentists take the appropriate tax write-off for their office cameras (extra- and intra-oral).
In my professional life I've personally been acquainted with at least a thousand dentists and peripherally acquainted with thousands more, and quite often the subject of photography came up in conversation. The vast majority were not shutterbugs or camera collectors and wouldn't know a Leica from a lichen. Of the handful of them who I can recall being seriously "in to" photography outside of dental practice, every one of them had some really impressive photographs to show for it. But I've only met two who own/use Leica. One of them is a world-famous lecturer/guru-type out in California, and the other is Jaapv. I know many more physicians and attorneys and computer professionals who are Leicaholics.
Only if the poll is set up that way, Moderator :)
We are missing -1 (meaning I would sell it immediately if I had one).
lol
Roland,
If someone gave me two free M8 cameras, I would sell both.
I guess, it would mean a score of -2.:D
nikonhswebmaster
03-19-2008, 18:24
yeah, well it started with the m4-p, then the m5, then the "horrid' m6... omg! the m7?!?! "that's it! leica's done! finished! finito! adios!"
the m8? "terrible... can't shoot anything but magenta! lousy colour balance, un-reliable" and on it goes... it's not a new revelation. leica's "sky was falling" long before the m8 arrived.
It is amazing how Leica keeps on going! Now it has been saved again, from almost sure demise, at least as an actual camera company (it will always be a brand). There must be something there, or why would anyone spend the money to keep making cameras. :)
Gabriel M.A.
03-19-2008, 18:32
the m8? "terrible... can't shoot anything but magenta! lousy colour balance, un-reliable" and on it goes... it's not a new revelation. leica's "sky was falling" long before the m8 arrived.
It's been the beginning of the end for Leica since day one. There's always been a chorus of "what?!? why?!?" since before they went to production.
Leica (and "Leitz" before that) has always been an inkblot showing people's innermost, darkest or lightest areas of their psyche.
Like a cigar.
And those who chew tobacco can't seem to understand why anybody would light that stuff up, anyway. And many never will :cool:
yeah, well it started with the m4-p, then the m5, then the "horrid' m6... omg! the m7?!?! "that's it! leica's done! finished! finito! adios!"
the m8? "terrible... can't shoot anything but magenta! lousy colour balance, un-reliable" and on it goes... it's not a new revelation. leica's "sky was falling" long before the m8 arrived.
Please don't quote this guy , he is on my ignore list....
This message is hidden because jaap is on your ignore list.
i'm confused jaapv... i'm not granted an audience by others as a result of being on YOUR ignore list? don't quote me as it might upset jaapv?!?!?!
i suppose you won't see this unless someone "quotes me" but id say that was rather un-called for.
Nobody says all y'all have to agree with each other, but let's not get catty now. Talk and quote away. Read or don't read what you wish to, but be nice ish.
Roger Hicks
03-22-2008, 02:20
Well there ya go.. now, inevitably, someone (who owns an M8) will come out and passionately state one of three things:
1) Do you own an M8 Stephen???? If you don't, your opinion (or information) doesn't count for squat here!! :D
2) Oh.. your information is incorrect, my Leica Dealer told me himself that Leica sales are extremely brisk and he can't keep them in stock because they sell out so fast so I had better get one while the gettin' was good !!
3) Why are we even concerned about numbers or problems or anything - just go out and take photos with the camera and you'll love it !!!
hmmm.. now that I look at that... basically every single "here's what's wrong with the M8" or "M8 problems" or "M8 (insert phrase here)" thread can be refuted by one (or all) of those three statements above :D
Cheers,
Dave
Dear Dave,
Not just M8. Substitute 'Leica' and the same is true.
Cheers,
R.
i'm confused jaapv... i'm not granted an audience by others as a result of being on YOUR ignore list? don't quote me as it might upset jaapv?!?!?!
i suppose you won't see this unless someone "quotes me" but id say that was rather un-called for.
You misunderstand completely: YOU are certainly not on my ignore list..:)
You quoted a troll, who would otherwise be hidden from me...So I suggested, slightly tongue-in-cheekish that that person would better remain hidden.
I read all the posts.
And I remain curious about how the M8 owners would assess the cost/benefit ratio of their investment compared to sticking to a film leica.
This is especially interesting given the percent of amateurs owners of the M8.
Cheers
Paul
I read all the posts.
And I remain curious about how the M8 owners would assess the cost/benefit ratio of their investment compared to sticking to a film leica.
This is especially interesting given the percent of amateurs owners of the M8.
Cheers
Paul
Amateurs have no cost/benefit ratio....
I fall into the same group useage I believe as JAAPV, but I also know plenty of others who use and buy the camera for what it does, as in postal employees, manufacturing workers who justify it by what the camera does and the fact that they like using a dig RF. Amateur is a word that gets misused here in the forums but most amateurs buy the best they can to enjoy their hobby. There are many that are quite knowledgeable and do work equal in quality as some pros I know, fwiw.... the camera is just a tool as has been said many times, one buys what one can afford to buy to accomplish a task....funny no one is curious about how expensive my dental equipment is.....:-)
In reading this thread I wondered what will be the percentage of Leica owners who also own a flash. Surely that would be a nice subject for a future poll, but I guess (wildly) that their number should be about the same as of those who own one or various M8s.
I'm a leica owner who also owns a set of strobes, and a handful of speed lights.
I've used my Leica's with strobes on multiple occasions.
I also use my leica with a SF20 on camera, sacrilegious
http://carlmogerley.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p116130438-4.jpg.
funny no one is curious about how expensive my dental equipment is.....:-)
I know it has to be really expensive if I remember my last dentist bill :(
I've spent too much money lately on Leica stuff. No more dentist visits for me the coming year....
nikonhswebmaster
03-23-2008, 14:09
My new front tooth.
2500+ my dentist
2500+ my oral surgeon who set the post.
= M8
we all proscrastinate things, but putting off health issues for a luxury item is not one I recommend but I DO UNDERSTAND GAS!!!
With the cost of dental digital intra oral cameras I have been trying to rationalize a 1DS III, so far no go.....on either, the Canon is a small fraction of the cost of the former, and lets not talk about the putrid rez given by these intra oral devices or digital xray sensors ...... we are talking here H39 cost territory...needless to say I have found other alternatives knowing something about rez and scanning options also...
My new front tooth.
2500+ my dentist
2500+ my oral surgeon who set the post.
= M8
where are you located, been doing implants and C&B for 25 yrs, and my fees are no where near that....:-)
Amateurs have no cost/benefit ratio....(Jaapv)
Jaapv,
Along my career I studied economy, and I have a few publications relating to economy and decision theory.
Gone are many of my books on economy (probably donated) like:
Macro-economic theory: A mathematical treatment
by R. G. D Allen
Fortunately many professors publish on the net their teachin notes.
So I searched and downloaded:
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~yna201/macrotext.pdf
Here you can verify that economists assume that all consumers take decisions based on cost/benefit ratio.
Thus my question stands and is crucial.
Also notice that I intended "especially amateurs" not just amateurs.
On the other hand I think a pro should explain to us the marginal benefit of the 5th M8 body.
All the best
Paul
Professors do tend to write nonsense from time to time - I know, I have known many.
The benefits for amateurs are immaterial, the costs are material. Comparing the uncomparable is futile.
And crucial??? What possible interest can the answer hold?
where are you located, been doing implants and C&B for 25 yrs, and my fees are no where near that....:-)
We must be doing something wrong...:o 1500 Euro for the surgery, 900 for the crown...
nikonhswebmaster
03-26-2008, 03:31
We must be doing something wrong...:o 1500 Euro for the surgery, 900 for the crown...
Pretty close
Your prices in dollars -- $2,345 for the surgery (and you I assume are not renting a space in Manhattan?) Whole front tooth not just a crown, but still the tooth itself was $1500 USD. The oral surgeon included some other "pleasant" work.
Every time I go to a dentist I keep hoping "Bones" from Star Trek will show up and say "Damn medievalism! Sounds more like the goddam Spanish Inquisition."
I'm still on my first M8 and I'm still on my first wife for that matter.
Still, I have been thinking about acquiring a second body. I hate to think what I'd be forced to resort to should I need to return mine for service or upgrade.
I am particularly eager for an opportunity to play around with the latest firmware.
Brian Sweeney
03-26-2008, 15:21
Well if you are after a second body, go for the M8. Your wife is less likely to object and it would be cheaper in the long run.
nikonhswebmaster
03-26-2008, 15:45
I'm still on my first M8 and I'm still on my first wife for that matter.
Still, I have been thinking about acquiring a second body. I hate to think what I'd be forced to resort to should I need to return mine for service or upgrade.
I am particularly eager for an opportunity to play around with the latest firmware.
A cleverly designed double entendre. I hope any visits for repair of components or upgrade is short.
crawdiddy
03-30-2008, 16:21
Pretty bizarre that 7 respondents have 4 M8s and only 2 respondents have 3. This sample is not "normal."
(And neither are the 9 persons who own either 3 or 4 M8s.)
Pretty bizarre that 7 respondents have 4 M8s and only 2 respondents have 3. This sample is not "normal."
(And neither are the 9 persons who own either 3 or 4 M8s.)Four is definitely remarkable. I'm not so sure how "normal" are those who have "only" two M8s either! :D
edrodgers731
04-01-2008, 13:27
A professional with only one camera body is the abnormal one. In fact, if you shoot a wedding, you should probably have at least 3.
To me, what is really abnormal is that amateurs use the M8 at all, and therefore people that own only one M8 are sick, twisted individuals.
:)
BillBingham2
04-01-2008, 13:34
Why would you need four M8s? Let's see: One in the shop, one to shoot with, and one as a spare; but what is the fourth one for?
One to have in transit to and from the repair shop.....(read include rim shot).
I too am a zero. I'm just too turned off by the price and the issues. I keep crossing my fingers that Nikon will come out with an SPD and stop this silliness.
B2 (;->
I have four and while I bring all four to each wedding I shoot, I only use two at a time every other wedding... BTW, when I was using DSLRs, I had the same number of cameras (3 were 1Ds MarkIIs and a 1D MarkIIN)...
Riccis
steenkamp
04-04-2008, 12:30
last time i checked there were about 17 M8's in my bag
One to have in transit to and from the repair shop.....(read include rim shot).
I too am a zero. I'm just too turned off by the price and the issues. I keep crossing my fingers that Nikon will come out with an SPD and stop this silliness.
B2 (;->
And what do you think that Nikon would cost? :D
I can happily count myself as a zero having just sold my M8. Never had any problems with that M8 (first two were duds) and the IQ was good enough, but I just didn't get on with it. I am now sharing my time between a Canon 5D and Epson RD1.
kittyphoto
04-16-2008, 06:02
Why sold M8 while keep RD1?
Don't get me wrong but M8 file is much better in terms of color, resoultion etc. I am really curious.
kittyhttp://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/images/smilies/banghead.gif
What amazes me about the poll and some of the ensuing debates is that here we are on an M8 forum and the majority of respondents don't only not own an M8 but of those a few are quite vocal about their objections to owning one.
Why are you here?
Why sold M8 while keep RD1?
Don't get me wrong but M8 file is much better in terms of color, resoultion etc. I am really curious.
kittyhttp://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/images/smilies/banghead.gif
Basically, I prefer to use the RD1 - the ergonomics are much better IMO. Up to A3 there really isn't any significant difference between the M8 and the RD1 (from personal experience and prints in hand). The M8 has a lot of plusses - better VF/RF longer EBL, sharper out of camera etc, but I just didn't get on with it - I really didn't like the shutter - noise and vibration - and found that hand holding at low speeds was not as successful as with the RD1 or my M6 and MP. (Hand held at low speeds is important to me and one of the key aspects of RF cameras). Its not a bad camera, its just not for me at this time. YMMV.
What amazes me about the poll and some of the ensuing debates is that here we are on an M8 forum and the majority of respondents don't only not own an M8 but of those a few are quite vocal about their objections to owning one.
Why are you here?
One of the options is zero. Ergo you either don't have one or you had one and sold it. Leica brings out the devil in a lot of people. There is a cure, but you have to enter the dentistry, medical or legal professions ;)
kittyphoto
04-17-2008, 20:39
Basically, I prefer to use the RD1 - the ergonomics are much better IMO. Up to A3 there really isn't any significant difference between the M8 and the RD1 (from personal experience and prints in hand). The M8 has a lot of plusses - better VF/RF longer EBL, sharper out of camera etc, but I just didn't get on with it - I really didn't like the shutter - noise and vibration - and found that hand holding at low speeds was not as successful as with the RD1 or my M6 and MP. (Hand held at low speeds is important to me and one of the key aspects of RF cameras). Its not a bad camera, its just not for me at this time. YMMV.
I understand now. I agree. I feel very good with RD1 too. Just the problem I have is color. It looks flat more like nikon. I don't see leica lens color character from RD1. It's color look like normal digital camera.
I understand now. I agree. I feel very good with RD1 too. Just the problem I have is color. It looks flat more like nikon. I don't see leica lens color character from RD1. It's color look like normal digital camera.
The RD1 sensor is the same one used in the Nikon D100, therefore colour may be similar to Nikons. Others (Sean Reid???) have said that the RD1 file gives you more scope in post processing. Personally I have no problem with the colour from the RD1 and find it to be reasonably accurate. I always shoot raw and can adjust to my taste. If you shoot jpeg then you can try the different "film styles" or boost contrast in camera.
Basically, I prefer to use the RD1 - the ergonomics are much better IMO. Up to A3 there really isn't any significant difference between the M8 and the RD1 (from personal experience and prints in hand). The M8 has a lot of plusses - better VF/RF longer EBL, sharper out of camera etc, but I just didn't get on with it - I really didn't like the shutter - noise and vibration - and found that hand holding at low speeds was not as successful as with the RD1 or my M6 and MP. (Hand held at low speeds is important to me and one of the key aspects of RF cameras). Its not a bad camera, its just not for me at this time. YMMV.
I can respect that. This is a matter of taste. The reason I never bought an RD1 was that I could not get on with Voigtlander Bessa cameras in the first place. :(
I can respect that. This is a matter of taste. The reason I never bought an RD1 was that I could not get on with Voigtlander Bessa cameras in the first place. :(
And that is also a good reason not to have an RD1. If all I ever did was look at them, I would keep the M8 - it is a very nice looking camera (especially in chrome).
found that hand holding at low speeds was not as successful as with the RD1 or my M6 and MP. (Hand held at low speeds is important to me and one of the key aspects of RF cameras). Its not a bad camera, its just not for me at this time. YMMV.
YMMV indeed. The following were shot hand-held, leaning backward using a 28mm lens @ 1/4 sec. The second is a 100% enlargement of a crop of the moon.
The following were shot hand-held, leaning backward...
...with one hand tied behind your back? :D
I was holding the camera with both hands but I had to lean back to shoot up at the sky, which isn't by far the most effective body posture for handheld photography at slow shutter speeds. This was shot at a Leica demo event in South Beach, and none of us had tripods and were checking our abilities to shoot handheld with the M8. Carlos who posts here as Etrigan was there too, and can vouch that no tripods were used. (Well, except for the little folding camera stand that David Farkas had from Manfrotto. I have to get me one of those!). CHECK IT OUT (http://www.slashgear.com/manfrotto-intros-modopocket-to-support-ultra-compact-digital-camera-3110013.php)
YMMV indeed. The following were shot hand-held, leaning backward using a 28mm lens @ 1/4 sec. The second is a 100% enlargement of a crop of the moon.
Ben,
I just could not get used to the feel of the shutter - when I focused on it I could see that the camera moved as I was pressing the shutter - just slightly, but enough to make a difference at slow speeds.
To one of the mods, please remove me from the poll stating "one" I have no M8's place me in zero. Operator error and not reading correctly. :bang:
Mod's: me too - take me out of "2" and put me in "zero".
I am still a count zero with respect to owning/using an M8 camera. With a Canon P in my reach, I don't feel that I need the M8. I am not a professional photographer.
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