View Full Version : And the hard drive dies!!
:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
So I've lost about 300gb of images including all of my scavenged pr0n.
I guess it was bound to happen. Now I have to contact Seagate about getting the data recovered. Lovely
:mad: :mad: :mad:
I have a feeling the money it is going to cost me to get this repaired/recovered is going to be the same price as buying the second external hard drive so I would have had a backup but never did because of cost.....
Chriscrawfordphoto
03-11-2008, 21:49
:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
So I've lost about 300gb of images including all of my scavenged pr0n.
I guess it was bound to happen. Now I have to contact Seagate about getting the data recovered. Lovely
:mad: :mad: :mad:
I have a feeling the money it is going to cost me to get this repaired/recovered is going to be the same price as buying the second external hard drive so I would have had a backup but never did because of cost.....
Yes a second copy is worth the cost. I have six 500GB externals next to my computer. 5 of them are full, the 6th has only 150GB free space. All of them have a copy stored offsite in case the house burns down or gets burglarized. I also have DVD backups of EVERYTHING on those drives. I have too much work to risk losing just to save a few hundred buck.
infrequent
03-11-2008, 21:58
yes backups are a must.
BillBingham2
03-11-2008, 22:02
There are lots of different ways to put together some reasonably priced near-line storage that can allow you a fast backup. Apple just came out with a 1TB time-capsule thingy that is great for us Mac users.
I've picked up some very low cost 200GB drives on black friday fire sale a couple of years back. I put them into USB housings from EvilBay (NAS ones too) and have low cost storage that works with Mac, Windows or Linux. I back up to these and put them over at my father-in-law's house. When he sells the house, they go to my Brother-In-Law.
There are some interesting online (internet based) backup solutions out there that might work well. The cost of TBs-O-DASD is coming down all the time for big disk farms so do some checking. Much better than flying without a parachute!
Get it fixed and get a low cost backup solution.
B2 (;->
Tuolumne
03-11-2008, 22:03
I'm sure this will bring the "film is archival" posters out of the wood work.
/T
Morca007
03-11-2008, 22:23
Data retrieval is expensive, and doesn't always work, backup is cheap, but annoying.
I'm gambling with my storage at the moment, I harp on everyone in my family to backup, but I'm too cheap to do it myself. :(
Film can burn just like a hard drive :p
Yea. I am going to get a good backup system going once this is sorted out. One copy at home, one copy at work I think.
John Noble
03-11-2008, 22:53
I'm sure this will bring the "film is archival" posters out of the wood work.
/T
Here I am!
Seriously, I'm a semi-retired programmer/network admin/etc., so I know just how hard it is to keep data safe and sound. Planning for the long haul is tough since even if you preserve the files, how are you going to read them if the software is long gone (not to mention the whole platform the software ran on)?
NASA is losing tons of data simply because it's deteriorating faster than they can transfer it to new media. I figure I'm not going to do any better than they are, so I'd just as soon have family memories in the proverbial shoebox. It seems the movie studios are starting to feel the same way: NYT article (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/business/media/23steal.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1)
infrequent
03-11-2008, 23:24
I harp on everyone in my family to backup, but I'm too cheap to do it myself. :(
sounds just like me until a few months back. when i upgraded to os x leopard, i decided to buy an external drive as well. time machine works well enough for me at the moment. as somebody mentioned, the apple one works even beautifully as its over wireless!
I have a feeling the money it is going to cost me to get this repaired/recovered is going to be the same price as buying the second external hard drive
no, I guess it's going to be more... :(
I have a feeling the money it is going to cost me to get this repaired/recovered is going to be the same price as buying the second external hard drive so I would have had a backup but never did because of cost.....
Far more. By an order of magnitude at the very least.
The problem is that people don't want backup, they want restore...
Coming from feature film, I know the headache of storing work. All my personal data is stored on a backup machine at home, and then also on two servers at work. It's about as safe as I could get it. I don't bother with DVD's now, they fail, scratch, get lost, break, only store 4 gig.
The issue with data not being readable later on is probably not an issue for us lot. As new devices come out, we transfer our work - it gradually gets updated keeping it in a new file format. I for one never use GIF for web anymore, it's all been altered to PNG, when that dies it will be upgraded again. Certain file formats, like TIFF however, they will be around forever and are so easy to work with you could code your own reader.
It's less of an issue for Apple users than Windows users, mainly because Microsoft is wishing to ditch support for external file formats which they have to license, in favour of an in-house brand. The problem with that is it's Microsoft, which means it wont work. Apple fully supports third party file formats.
Is the HDD a total failure, or is it data corruption? If it hardware, buy a second version of the same drive and transfer the platters. :)
RdEoSg - I'm terribly sorry to hear about your loss.
On the other hand, I appreciate hearing your story, as it reinforces my resolve to keep up my ridiculous backup routine.
First copy on the main data drive (separate from the system drive).
That's backed up after each session (new pics, scans or edits) to a third internal hard disk (second copy).
Another backup to an external hard disk, which is then unplugged to keep it safe from voltage surges (third copy).
Yet another backup to a portable 120GB (2.5 inch) drive that I carry with me at all times, in case the house burns down or we are burgled.
And my Lightroom catalog is also backed up to 4GB Sandisk Cruzer (USB drive) that lives on my keyring.
This is all copied with SyncBack, a free package that makes copies, not encoded backup files, and checks and only copies the new or changed files. I just plug in the necessary external drives and execute the batch job, which takes about 10 minutes to run.
Oh, and finally I copy the newest files over to DVD, once a month.
Paranoid? Who, me?
I had this happen to me some years back with an external HDD in a plastic case. The heat built up inside and eventually killed the HDD. It turned out the controller had fried. This meant that with a replaced controller the HDD could be accessed again. Of course, I didn't take any chances. I bought a new HDD in an aluminium case, a Maxtor One Touch. And I've been buying new and bigger ones ever since.
http://shardsofphotography.blogspot.com/search?q=hard+disk
So, before you commit to a lot of money spent on data retrieval, it might be worth checking if the controller is at fault. That way you could get your data back at a much lower price and much quicker than with pro platter research.
newsgrunt
03-12-2008, 05:24
A good recovery specialist would probably check controllers as part of the estimate. When my iMac went south, they checked everything but the dirt under my nails ;) Ended up forking over close to a G in the end. Back up more often now but also don't shoot as much digital as I used to so that eases the pressure. But RML is right, they should check the controller first, a swap could be all you need.
Also, if I were to buy more drives, I'd try to avoid sequentially numbered boxes, would hate to have them all cack it at the same time.
fwiw, I used CBL Data Recovery Technologies in Toronto.
spyder2000
03-12-2008, 05:46
You'll find data recovery 'outrageous' in price. It's the way it is; the providers know the data is valuable otherwise you wouldn't be asking. In the future, you could consider installing a storage controller that supports RAID (sorry, not the user!) on some level. That would provide not with a backup but an on-line, local copy of your data. Frankly I don't do this anymore. I write my data to a second internal disk on a second controller and then copy it to a second home computer via the network.
Yes, a single catastrophe will get all those copies, but trading out the second rive periodically for the one in the safe deposit box provides a little more security.
My experience has been that as long as I keep all this up, I will have no failures but as soon as I skip it for a bit, my main drive suffers a failure.
NickTrop
03-12-2008, 06:21
Sorry to hear it. I'm not going to rub it in by talking about the archivability of prints and negatives but every computer I ever had, except the first two I bought that didn't even have drives (Comadore 64, and later an Epson XP), went because the drives went. You can talk back-up, and who can argue that? But - really, let's add "back up" to the list of chores nobody has time to do in our busy lives.
Perhaps get a gmail account - forget how many gigs they're up to now. Then with the invitations, give yourself multiple accounts. Use one or two for a free off-line storage solution. Just a thought.
But - really, let's add "back up" to the list of chores nobody has time to do in our busy lives.
I have clients who have Windows XP, which has a backup system that can be scheduled to run backups to external drives as often as you like. One example is an agency in town where I set up a network. On Thursday night, every week, at 11:45 the Windows Backup system kicks off a backup to an external drive. Both the server and external drive run all the time. I drop by periodically to check the system. It's been two years, and the system has run the backup flawlessly every Thursday night. Once every two months, I burn a copy to DVD for off-site storage (The manager takes the disk home). That disk goes in a jewell case, and I doubt than any of the off-site disks have been opened since burned. So much for scratches and damage. So much for busy lives. One half hour setup to put it in place.
No plan is flawless. There is always a weak point in every system.
I also love it when the Apple groupies get on their box and talk about the superiority of their systems. Well, since Apple occupies less than 10% of the market, everybody seems to overlook how many older systems Apple made their dime on and then left the owners stranded by the roadside when they moved on, as in the introduction of the MAC abandoning all previous OS, and the huge campaign and losses with the failed intro of the LISA. Even considering the huge difference in market share, Microsoft has left fewer broken hearts by the roadside by abandoning Operating Systems than Apple. In fact, it has often been said that one of Microsofts biggest mistakes (costly) is in the commitment to backward compatibility of its products.
Don't get me wrong here. The current Apple products are good. Almost good enough to replace the PC, but only in imaging. Their superiority in the virus/spyware market is only a by product of their tiny market share.
Getting back to the issue, does the hard drive still run and is it still recognized by the system. If so, there are some recovery software programs in the market that are end user operable and perform some fairly miraculous recoveries.
For storage, and archiving, I use a combination of DVDs (UDF data), drive arrays, and on-line storage. All of my media can be attached to my workstations or servers and be made available to any system capable of supporting Ethernet and TCP/IP.
I would agree that it's not a great idea to archive data onto proprietary media formats or systems.
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 09:04
I also love it when the Apple groupies get on their box and talk about the superiority of their systems. Well, since Apple occupies less than 10% of the market, everybody seems to overlook how many older systems Apple made their dime on and then left the owners stranded by the roadside when they moved on, as in the introduction of the MAC abandoning all previous OS, and the huge campaign and losses with the failed intro of the LISA. Even considering the huge difference in market share, Microsoft has left fewer broken hearts by the roadside by abandoning Operating Systems than Apple. In fact, it has often been said that one of Microsofts biggest mistakes (costly) is in the commitment to backward compatibility of its products.
Don't get me wrong here. The current Apple products are good. Almost good enough to replace the PC, but only in imaging. Their superiority in the virus/spyware market is only a by product of their tiny market share.
Just for the record.
No Mac owner is "stranded by the roadside."
Many original applications from 1984 continue to run just fine on Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger, over two decades later.
Apple does not have a history of abandoning previous OS applications. Applications written for OS 6 ran in OS 7, OS 8 and OS 9. And when OS X was released applications from OS 6~9 continued to be supported for many more years. Even when Apple no longer supported booting into OS 9 they continued to support running OS 9 applications under OS X, as they continue to do to this day in Tiger.
Leopard is the first Apple OS not to directly support Classic applications. However there are three free applications which continue to allow applications from 1984 to run under Leopard, SheepShaver, Basilisk and Mini vMac.
While losing direct OS 9 support current Macs will run ANY windows application directly since any Mac you buy today will allow the installation of Windows Vista.
As for the Lisa, that was 1983, and as everyone knows it ended up as a parallel project to the Macintosh. Steve Jobs stopped working on the LISA in 1982, but instead headed up the Mac project. The LISA sold poorly, despite being more sophisticated than the Mac, simply because is was too expensive at nearly $10,000 it could not complete with the Mac. The LISA II, introduced in '84 went for $3,495, but it was too late. The Lisa operating system included cooperative, non-preemptive, multitasking and virtual memory.
But Lisa applications, Lisa Office System 7/7 and the Lisa WorkShop, can be run using the LISA emulator http://lisa.sunder.net/.
Try installing a copy of Infocom's classic "The Lost Treasures" (which includes ZORK) on your PC running Vista or even XP and get back to us. Now that is what being "abandoned by the roadside" is about.
See attached -- what did the Windows interface look like in 1983? :) Lisa GUI left, In 1983 Window's was as an installable device driver under MS-DOS 2.0
dpetrzelka
03-12-2008, 09:25
For anyone looking for a more secure, RAID backup of digital media, I would very highly recommedn the Infrant ReadyNAS NV+ (http://www.infrant.com/products/products_details.php?name=ReadyNAS%20NVPlus).
I am not associated with the company- but my self, and many of my friends in design/web/architecture have found this an invaulable "vault" for our files.
RAID arrays and hard drives are very cheap compared to billable time wasted on recovering/recreating files, or paying for data recovery.
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 09:34
For anyone looking for a more secure, RAID backup of digital media, I would very highly recommedn the Infrant ReadyNAS NV+ (http://www.infrant.com/products/products_details.php?name=ReadyNAS%20NVPlus).
I am not associated with the company- but my self, and many of my friends in design/web/architecture have found this an invaulable "vault" for our files.
RAID arrays and hard drives are very cheap compared to billable time wasted on recovering/recreating files, or paying for data recovery.
RAID makes backup painless, however just a note of caution on RAID, use a solution like the ReadyNAS 1100 linked above, do not use a software solution, where you simply attach two drives to your computer for backup. Software RAID is very useful for data capture such as video, but is not reliable enough for content-sensitive backup.
The ReadyNAS 1100 linked above, is a stand alone solution using embedded LINUX as its OS.
http://www.amazon.com/Netgear-RNR4450-ReadyNAS-Rackmount-Network/dp/B000R9DB6O
Just as a note of encouragement to the OP, very few external HDs actually fail, the vast majority have bad power supplies and the like, since the enclosures are very cheaply built. Some of the external drives I have opened have power supplies that look like they were assembled in home workshops in 1910. Often all you need to do is buy a HD case. GOOD LUCK!
.
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 09:57
One last thought.
You cannot depend on any backup. And somewhere along the line, you have to make some decisions about what is important. VERY few photographers, have 5, 500 gig drives, full of photos that are worthy of printing, and showing.
Most of us mortals have about 100 to 200 photos that are REALLY important. Those photos should be dealt with separately.
1) back them up on the highest quality DVD media, and make two copies. Also keep them separated. You will of course have HD backups.
2) make at least 2 archival prints, on glossy paper, in as large a size as you can store. These prints can be copied if everything fails. If you use the proper printing supplies these reference prints can be as archival as film, perhaps even more so, if properly stored in archival print boxes.
If you are a professional, making and selling editions, print the entire edition and put it into storage, do not depend on your backup for print on demand.
How did it die? Did it stop spinning, does it make a loud clicking noise (like a metronome), does the computer still "see" the drive? I might be able to help you recover the data if you can provide some info including the type of drive (SATA vs. PATA) etc.
Most of my early slides were spoiled by mould, ultimately nothing’s incorruptible
I feel a back-up service coming on!
Incidentally, if anyone wants to send me DVD's or pictures you want backing up onto my servers feel free. I have a fair few terabytes not doing anything right now, all of it is RAID 5, all of it is UPS and surge protected.
I never backup to DVD now, they are really very crap.
Hmmm, I am just remembering the very true point that ALL hard-drives fail, 100% of them. It is just a matter of when.
The same goes for the drive(s) used for back-up, and unfortunately also for the tapes/tape-drives eventually. A safe solution requires a lot of planning and a lot of time and effort (probably money too).
The dvd option is very vulnerable to heat and light, although there is a wide spread of quality from different brands I suppose.
At work we have just got a new storage system which is waterproof down to 200m . . . . flooding could be a genuine hazard here !
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 13:34
I don't bother with DVD's now, they fail, scratch, get lost, break, only store 4 gig.
Well DVDs don't actually scratch, get lost, or break, the user has to do that. :) Important archived work should be treated with respect. But they do indeed sometimes fail.
I have never had one fail personally, and I have been burning CDs since buying a 660 AV in 1993, but it can happen. All archive CDs or DVDs should be tested on another DVD drive right after they are burned. Keep your DVDs out of the sun, since the recording layer can fade, store them in a cool place. And store them properly in jewel cases or archival sleeves. If your work is really important you have to do what writers have been doing forever, put a copy at your bank.
These days owning two DVD drives is a very small expense, if you have a PC you can even mount them both in the same machine. The difference between a DVD and a hard drive is that ALL hard drives will fail, but not all DVDs will fail (I am talking a 25 year period here not forever, the earth itself will fail finally). The chance of two DVDs failing is very small.
My original premise however is that you should divide your backups, between raw work that you could lose without ending your life, and important work that is completed and represents work that you have printed or exhibited.
Backing up gigs and gigs of raw files at a certain point is less important, since when will anyone have time to go back? Sometimes you have to let the past be the past, and move on.
.
I've had DVD's fail, and after a while they just can't hold enough data.
HDD's do fail, they are the only item in a computer that is guaranteed to break! That's why every two years mine get replaced, no matter what. That's also why I never buy cheap drives, never buy drives from the same batch. My home machine has Time Machine running, so every hour any changes are backed up. Once a month that drive gets put on my work server, which means the next day I'll have another 20-odd copies of the work. If my main system drive fails, I install a new one, install Leopard (which takes 15 minutes) then restore from my G-Tech RAID, which takes another 15 minutes.
You can be as safe as you choose, and as much as your wallet allows. We do need a good external storage system though. HDD's are mechanical. DVD's are too small and optical, and scratch way to easily. Tapes fail if you cause a breeze near them.
We need something new.
At work we have just got a new storage system which is waterproof down to 200m . . . . flooding could be a genuine hazard here !
Thankfully that never stopped a Dutchman before, or else we would be living in Switzerland. :)
As to flooding being a risk... it's not a risk any large company considers real. And they shouldn't. Fire is a much bigger risk, as is power failure, or theft, or human stupidity. It's more important in my line of work (I'm a data storage specialist) to know you have a good copy of the data in two different locations and be able to recover quickly and painlessly at the unhurt location than to dredge up the storage boxes, the tape library, the servers and all and just hope everything still works.... Just my professional experience, of course. :)
bmattock
03-12-2008, 14:02
Hmmm, I am just remembering the very true point that ALL hard-drives fail, 100% of them. It is just a matter of when.
The same applies to the universe and everything in it.
Gabriel M.A.
03-12-2008, 14:04
So I've lost about 300gb of images including all of my scavenged pr0n.
I guess it was bound to happen. Now I have to contact Seagate about getting the data recovered. Lovely.
Err...as long as your scavenged pr0n doesn't offend the prudence of Seagate!
Al Patterson
03-12-2008, 14:08
I have two PCs, and use the laptop as a backup to the desktop. If I didn't have the laptop, I'd get one of those external drives for use as backup. I still also have CDs and DVDs as backup media, but I'd rather just hook the two systems together and copy between them if I need a restore.
For the digital photos, I have two media cards, and I don't wipe one until it has been offloaded onto both systems.
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 14:31
You can be as safe as you choose, and as much as your wallet allows. We do need a good external storage system though. HDD's are mechanical. DVD's are too small and optical, and scratch way to easily. Tapes fail if you cause a breeze near them.
We need something new.
Or something old...
Make prints, if even done on a marginally archival system, they will exist as long as you live. If what you do is important, then others will archive it.
pigment ink
rag paper
acid free boxes
HP now claims 100 plus years if prints are stored out of the sun, assuming your work matures enough by 25 to be archived, that means you would have to be 125 years old before you begin to worry...:rolleyes:
Al Patterson
03-12-2008, 14:36
:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
So I've lost about 300gb of images including all of my scavenged pr0n.
I guess it was bound to happen. Now I have to contact Seagate about getting the data recovered. Lovely
:mad: :mad: :mad:
I have a feeling the money it is going to cost me to get this repaired/recovered is going to be the same price as buying the second external hard drive so I would have had a backup but never did because of cost.....
There used to be a commercial for a car repair place where the tag line was "you can pay me now, or you can pay me later".
True for computers as well.
As an aside, has anyone tried any of those online backup services?
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 14:44
As an aside, has anyone tried an of those online backup services?
They are extremely useful while traveling, I would not consider them archival, but if you set up FTP, you can upload to any server you want, including your own computer if you use a service like DYN DNS. https://www.dyndns.com/
They are extremely useful while traveling, I would not consider them archival, but if you set up FTP, you can upload to any server you want, including your own computer if you use a service like DYN DNS. https://www.dyndns.com/
In my personal experience either option is useful though transfer times may well be beyond acceptable, depending where you access the internet from. I wouldn't use either from Mongolia, for instance, or an Indian internet cafe. Internet is excruciatingly slow most of the times, and it will take ages to transfer even a few MB worth of shots to either the online vault or your ftp server at home (assuming for a minute you live in the US or Europe). The slowness of the net in those and other places is one reason why I'm completely off of Hotmail. It would take sometimes 10-15 minutes just to load the log in page. I know, why go to such places in the first place but I love Mongolia, and enjoyed India too. :)
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 14:58
In my personal experience either option is useful though transfer times may well be beyond acceptable, depending where you access the internet from. I wouldn't use either from Mongolia, for instance, or an Indian internet cafe. Internet is excruciatingly slow most of the times, and it will take ages to transfer even a few MB worth of shots to either the online vault or your ftp server at home (assuming for a minute you live in the US or Europe). The slowness of the net in those and other places is one reason why I'm completely off of Hotmail. It would take sometimes 10-15 minutes just to load the log in page. I know, why go to such places in the first place but I love Mongolia, and enjoyed India too. :)
Call me old fashioned... but if I was going to Mongolia, I would take film. It's one of the main reasons I still own film cameras.
Ditto with even India, however there are fast enough connections there to carry on Skype, so it may be getting better.
++++++++
As Bob Dole would say:
Arden is not sure how much longer he can post using this silly anagram.
:cool:
As to flooding being a risk... it's not a risk any large company considers real. :)
Lol, I should have put a smiley after it ! The storage is for the mobile data-store which gets dragged out on location (frequently muddy or dusty) accompanying the tough-notebook thingies. Provided they aren't actually on the notebook at the time, they can be dropped, kicked, squashed etc. without a problem. Very handy.
The site of my last employer was flooded twice though. Then they moved . . .
Call me old fashioned... but if I was going to Mongolia, I would take film. It's one of the main reasons I still own film cameras.
You wouldn't say that if you'd be there, really. :)
Mongolia is one hell of a dusty place. Not good for a digital camera like a dSLR or dRF, but plenty good for one that doesn't need to swap lenses.
Film, however, is at any danger dust and grid brings. Add to that that the film labs are atrocious when it comes to carefully handling your film (colour only), that you won't be able to find any chemicals for B&W developing and that leaving your freshly dev'd film to dry is inviting every dust particle in Mongolia onto your wet film... and you may realise that Mongolia is not a photographer's heaven.
Before going digital I too shot film (colour only) and just stored the exposed film in their canisters to bring them home. In winter and in summer leaving film outside the fridge isn't a good idea. In summer the houses get very stuffy and warm. In winter too because the heater is either on high or off. With outside temps of -30 C you want the heater on high. :) In the countryside (99% of Mongolia) there's no fridge available.
I'm still amazed I just did what I did and never thought about the odds I was taking. :) Maybe just as well. A man might stop taking photos thinking such thoughts.
The site of my last employer was flooded twice though. Then they moved . . .
Not to Bangladesh, I hope. :)
BillBingham2
03-12-2008, 15:08
Just for the record.
No Mac owner is "stranded by the roadside."
Arden,
You are correct. Not sure too many other places in the world remember Lisa. One of my customers back in 1988 still had one on his desk, we replaced it with a IIcx if I remember right.
I just moved back to Mac after starting in DOS,moving to Windows, NT....Mac OS 10.4 rocks. I have VMware Fusion on my box and am trying to load some old OSes to have copies. I'm not sure either side is perfect, but I do know that the scares I have from incompatibility between serial port drivers and just about any three versions of the windows operating systems used by most business are deep and still ooozzzzz puss. I've had problems with Mac, but no where near the issues with IRQs and stuff that I've had in the PC world.
I have a visual basic program that my cub scout pack uses for pine wood derby that will not work in W2000, XP or Vista. It uses all Microsoft DLLs. Compatibility, left behind in the dust, upgrades in windows require a lot more effort than in Mac OS.
B2 (;->
Bob Michaels
03-12-2008, 15:08
I started running my latest total backup when I went to bed last night. I noticed this morning that it was perfect.
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 15:11
You wouldn't say that if you'd be there, really. :)
Mongolia is one hell of a dusty place. Not good for a digital camera like a dSLR or dRF, but plenty good for one that doesn't need to swap lenses.
Film, however, is at any danger dust and grid brings. Add to that that the film labs are atrocious when it comes to carefully handling you
[...]
I'm still amazed I just did what I did and never thought about the odds I was taking. :) Maybe just as well. A man might stop taking photos thinking such thoughts.
"Arden thinks you should take a NIKONOS-V?"
"Arden thinks you should take a NIKONOS-V?"
Arden could be on to something indeed. :D
Backup? I have my main internal HD backed up to a second internal HD using Time Machine. All my photos are also on a NAS configured as RAID 1. I also regularly make backups onto another external HD and store that in a different building. And if all that should fail, the worst that would happen is that I'd have to start scanning all my negs and slides again.
I've been in the computer business for nearly 30 years now, and I have seen many many people suffer HD failures (and have suffered several myself - but have never lost any data). And I'm still amazed every time I come across someone who doesn't think their precious data is worth the cost of a backup drive, or who thinks it will never happen to them.
I don't want this to come across as smug or superior or anything, and I really do feel for people who lose their stuff. But please, everyone, learn from this - there are no excuses - back it up!
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 15:28
Arden,
You are correct. Not sure too many other places in the world remember Lisa. One of my customers back in 1988 still had one on his desk, we replaced it with a IIcx if I remember right.
I just moved back to Mac after starting in DOS,moving to Windows, NT....Mac OS 10.4 rocks. I have VMware Fusion on my box and am trying to load some old OSes to have copies. I'm not sure either side is perfect, but I do know that the scares I have from incompatibility between serial port drivers and just about any three versions of the windows operating systems used by most business are deep and still ooozzzzz puss. I've had problems with Mac, but no where near the issues with IRQs and stuff that I've had in the PC world.
I have a visual basic program that my cub scout pack uses for pine wood derby that will not work in W2000, XP or Vista. It uses all Microsoft DLLs. Compatibility, left behind in the dust, upgrades in windows require a lot more effort than in Mac OS.
B2 (;->
[derailed by anti-mac sentiment]
:bang:
oscroft just made me realise, I don't need to backup, I have the negs! :)
This does make me think about going 100% digital, or to put it another way, it does make me think about never going 100% digital.
bmattock
03-12-2008, 15:45
The thing that puts me off about Mac is the same thing that puts me off about Leica - those who believe in the system are glassy-eyed, slack-jawed, nodding heads to whatever Apple does. Apple is not a God, and neither is Leitz.
I run Linux. Mac people need to be deprogrammed in some camp somewhere.
I've run Linux, Unix, OS X and Windows in my time, along with Amiga OS and my own DOS based Os (back when I liked coding).
OSX is the most well-rounded OS I've used. I do like Linux, but I also don't like ugly stuff. ;)
bmattock
03-12-2008, 15:52
oscroft just made me realise, I don't need to backup, I have the negs! :)
This does make me think about going 100% digital, or to put it another way, it does make me think about never going 100% digital.
And away we go. Sure, let's be smug. A little schadenfreude, maybe? Pleasure in another's pain? You're a nice person. Not.
OK, let's trot it out again. Film are a single point of failure. Lose the original, you've lost it for good. No copy is as good as the original.
Houses burn down. They get swept away in floods, they have earthquakes and mudslides and you name it. Maybe not YOURS, but it happens somewhere, every day.
A copy of a digital photo is the same, bit for bit, as the original. Make copies and put them in more than one place, and you don't have a single point of failure anymore.
One method is better than the other. Always. And you know as well as I do which one that is.
When the World Trade Center was attacked, 40,000 irreplaceable negatives were lost, taken of the Kennedy years. They are gone forever. If they had been scanned and stored in multiple locations - like the financial data that was also destroyed that day - the world would still have them.
So yeah, film rocks, digital sucks. Got it. Moving on.
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 16:13
[derailed by anti-mac sentiment]
:bang:
bmattock
03-12-2008, 16:26
All that "glassy-eyed, slack-jawed, nodding heads" stuff is the thing teenage, anti-mac sites from the pre iPod age were about. Surely you are not stuck there?
No, I was around before Apple existed, and before Microsoft, too. I originally thought the Apple II was pretty cool, as was the Atari and the Amiga and the various CP/M machines.
It was not until the first Mac's began to hit the scene that people started acting like pod people. Friends of mine started preaching Apple at me like it was a religion, and it was always couched in "That's too bad your IRQs are messed up. If you had a Mac, you wouldn't have those problems. Macs just work, you just plug them in." And I'd ask them about the internals - they didn't know. They didn't want to know. Apple took care of all those little details, they didn't need to know how it all worked. It was like a cult.
I've used Macs when I have had to. I still do not like them. I love that OSX is based on Unix, since I was programming System 7 Unix when my AT&T 3b2 had the real first GUI, but it is not enough to make me pony up three times what the hardware is worth so I can join 'the club' and starting handing out literature on street corners to strangers while dressed in saffron robes. Oh wait, that's a different cult. Well, I get them mixed up.
BillBingham2
03-12-2008, 16:31
The thing about the Mac OS is that it is really invisible, the applications are what we, as Mac users notice.
I remember how much fun it was running around with MacWrite, the OS 6.X, MacTCPIP and a few other utilities on a set of 12 floppies. I could do everything I wanted, quick and easy. A few floppies of AppleShare and I won out over Novell and Banyan at a medium sized college for their networking standard for Mac, Windows and DOS boxes. When Apple is at their best, they remember to keep it simple and understandable, but then there are times.....
..... a NEXT black cube, .......
I saw my first one at a Dykes and Needs Ball one MacWorld long ago. It was a very cool system. Ran up against them a lot in the Chicago Financial space. As Pink was getting closer I jumped off the Apple cart and when they canned it I thought she was going down for good. It was a beautiful UI, world class graphics way back when. Blue was an OK OS, but they needed to take a quantum leap. OS X did that, just took a lot longer than it needed to.
B2 (;->
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 16:44
It was not until "just open up rez edit."
[derailed by anti-mac sentiment]
:bang:
bmattock
03-12-2008, 16:52
It is not the lack of technical understanding that bothers me. It is the smug, glassy-eyed insistence that no one needs to know...just come with us, Bill, to the land of lollipops and lemonade. Yeah, well, you guys have fun. That kind of behavior skeevs me right out. And yeah, Leica-lovers, BMW acolytes, and so on all tend towards it in one form or another. Love what you love. But no preaching, please, it's icky.
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 16:53
[derailed by anti-mac sentiment]
:bang:
The thing that puts me off about Mac is the same thing that puts me off about Leica - those who believe in the system are glassy-eyed, slack-jawed, nodding heads to whatever Apple does.
Hi Bill,
I have great respect for you (you've been one of my favourite contributors here since I joined), but I'm afraid that is utter, 100%, buffalo poop.
Best regards :D
bmattock
03-12-2008, 16:56
Hi Bill,
I have great respect for you (you've been one of my favourite contributors here since I joined), but I'm afraid that is utter, 100%, buffalo poop.
Best regards :D
At least I'm good for the environment. Biodegradable and all that.
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 16:58
It is not the lack of technical understanding that bothers me. It is the smug, glassy-eyed insistence that no one needs to know...just come with us, Bill, to the land of lollipops and lemonade. Yeah, well, you guys have fun. That kind of behavior skeevs me right out. And yeah, Leica-lovers, BMW acolytes, and so on all tend towards it in one form or another. Love what you love. But no preaching, please, it's icky.
[derailed by anti-mac sentiment]
:bang:
bmattock
03-12-2008, 17:01
But Bill you are the one doing the preaching... You are the one preaching that suffering is good for the soul.
Nope, I'm not the one who trotted out that old "mac is best" chestnut. I merely responded to it with a loud NO (or bullpoop, depending on who you talk to).
I am not trying to convert anyone to Linux, nor do I insist it is best. I run it, I like it, and yes, I think it is better than Max or Windows. But it isn't for everyone. Mac people will tell you that Mac *IS* for everyone. Yeah. All the pod people.
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 17:16
Nope, I'm not the one who trotted out that old "mac is best" chestnut. I merely responded to it with a loud NO (or bullpoop, depending on who you talk to).
I am not trying to convert anyone to Linux, nor do I insist it is best. I run it, I like it, and yes, I think it is better than Max or Windows. But it isn't for everyone. Mac people will tell you that Mac *IS* for everyone. Yeah. All the pod people.
[derailed by anti-mac sentiment]
:bang:
Sorry to hear it. I'm not going to rub it in by talking about the archivability of prints and negatives but every computer I ever had, except the first two I bought that didn't even have drives (Comadore 64, and later an Epson XP), went because the drives went. You can talk back-up, and who can argue that? But - really, let's add "back up" to the list of chores nobody has time to do in our busy lives.
There are several nice online backup services available these days. Setting up something like Mozy consists of downloading and installing the software, then you don't worry about it other than checking on it once in a while.
If you don't have time for that, it's because you simply don't care.
bmattock
03-12-2008, 17:32
Bill you have to get out more.
I get out plenty. I have lived and worked all around the world, and lived and worked in nearly all of the US states.
I know you are so old you predate Microsoft (which makes you at least 35?) but still even you must not really believe this stuff you are typing for all to see.
I'm quite a bit older than that. Imagine this. When I was a child, there was no internet, no PC's, no microwave ovens, no cable tv, no MTV, no cordless phones, definitely no cell phones. When I was in high school, I worked at Radio Shack for a short time, selling the TRS-80. The first one.
Yeah, I'm old. I got in on the ground floor of this "PC" stuff.
Arden cannot believe it!
Arden needs to get a grip on his wagger.
The rest of us gave up years ago trying to put Macs on bank employee desks, or thinking that we could run OS 9 instead of Solaris (although a lot of folks actually believe you can run NT instead of Solaris).
I ran Plan 9, System 7 Unix, Coherent, CP/M, DOS, BSD, and whatever else I could find. My first Internet account was a dial up to Denver University in 1985, bub. No http, GUI, just gopher, telnet, ftp, and elm/pine for reading Usenet newsgroups - all 2,000 of them.
If you wanted to play DOOM with your buddies in the 90's you bought a PC. I have had many. I run Linux, and Apache on several of my Ruby on Rails servers.
Back in the '90's was like yesterday to me. I took my first programming class in the 1970's.
Linux is not the best tool for the job when it comes to digital photography. It works but is not the best choice for the vast majority of people.
Fine with me, I'm not trying to convert anyone. It works great for me because a) it is free and b) I know how to use it to do what I want and c) I am color-blind and all that razz-ma-tazz that comes with PS doesn't help me at all, I can't use it.
So there you. Enjoy your Mac, fanboy. I was around when the Intel 4004 was hot iron. Been there, done that, and not only did I get the t-shirt, it has long since turned to dust.
Al Patterson
03-12-2008, 17:38
Bill you have to get out more. I know you are so old you predate Microsoft (which makes you at least 35?) but still even you must not really believe this stuff you are typing for all to see.
Arden cannot believe it!
The rest of us gave up years ago trying to put Macs on bank employee desks, or thinking that we could run OS 9 instead of Solaris (although a lot of folks actually believe you can run NT instead of Solaris).
If you wanted to play DOOM with your buddies in the 90's you bought a PC. I have had many. I run Linux, and Apache on several of my Ruby on Rails servers.
Linux is not the best tool for the job when it comes to digital photography. It works but is not the best choice for the vast majority of people.
:bang:
I'm with Bill, but then again I'm an IT guy. I currently have two XP based PCs, but I'll probably go with Linux next. Or, I could buy a Mac Mini and use it as a coaster for my beer...
I live need a town named Arden. I wonder if we may be neighbors...
And speaking of games, you haven't lived until you played mutli-player Star Trek on a VAX. Or Collosal Cave Adventure on a PDP-11.
bmattock
03-12-2008, 17:40
http://content.techrepublic.com.com/2346-10878_11-5597.html
http://i.techrepublic.com.com/gallery/5608-375-500.jpg
You don't know how many geek jokes you grumpy old men are inspiring in me. :D
bmattock
03-12-2008, 17:45
You don't know how many geek jokes you grumpy old men are inspiring in me. :D
It's true, I've got the twirly propeller to prove it. But I'm comfortable with who I am. Just a grumpy old man with good typing skills and bottle of Jack. And a Java manual (trying to teach it to myself).
Al Patterson
03-12-2008, 17:46
You don't know how many geek jokes you grumpy old men are inspiring in me. :D
Like "How many programmers does it take to change a lightbulb"?
The thing that puts me off about Mac is the same thing that puts me off about Leica - those who believe in the system are glassy-eyed, slack-jawed, nodding heads to whatever Apple does. Apple is not a God, and neither is Leitz.
I run Linux. Mac people need to be deprogrammed in some camp somewhere.Yes, that’s me.... drooling slack-jawed, knock-kneed, glassy-eyed, a Leica M2 user since 1967, and when I first saw the Mac 128 in the store in 1984 I started nodding immediately: That’s the computer for me, I liked the pretty icons, MacWrite, MacPaint, MultiPlan and Dollars & Sense were all I needed, it’s all about the user interface, and the delightful lack of BASIC closed the deal. I bow in respect... :D
I had a “backup malfunction” some years ago, lost some 350 Mb of personal creative effort. It was devastating. Not a failure of hard drive or other media, but unwise reliance on automated process, where I backed up another volume over the top of the one where the 350Mb was located, then blindly backed up THAT volume over its previous backup. So I lost both the original data and its backup. Terrible feeling I wouldn’t wish on anyone.
bmattock
03-12-2008, 17:51
I never said you were knock-kneed. I'm sure your knees are quite un-knocky.
And speaking of games, you haven't lived until you played mutli-player Star Trek on a VAX. Or Collosal Cave Adventure on a PDP-11.
You guys are making me all nostalgic. :) While I'm probably not anywhere near as old (33) I did get into computers at age 7 (programming BASIC on a Commodore VIC-20) and have played with just about everything since. Have fond memories of multi-player 'worm' on a Norsk mainframe back in the days...
Regarding Macs, not sure why you can't like them without being a 'fanboy'. I don't give a rat's ass about Apple in any way, but I do like my iPod because it's a damned decent music player that works great for me. Considering a MacBook because it has a superb screen and good specs for the money; been through a few PC laptops that I didn't care for. Just pick the tool you like and works for you; no need to get caught up in the 'religion' surrounding it. That goes ten-fold for Linux; if you think Apple has a rabid fanbase go check out your Linux hangouts...
One last thought.
You cannot depend on any backup. And somewhere along the line, you have to make some decisions about what is important. VERY few photographers, have 5, 500 gig drives, full of photos that are worthy of printing, and showing.. I have to agree here, although I'd not go so far as to say that a file has to be "worthy" of printing in order to save.
It does bring up an important point, though. And that's one's editing habits. Yes, it's easier to archive than it is to edit. OTOH, duplicative and mediocre shots make the entire archive less valuable----unless, of course, you expect someone to write a dissertation and mount multiple exhibitions when you die.:)
I also suggest off-site backups, having had a house burn to the ground.
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 20:30
Back in the '90's was like yesterday to me. I took my first programming class in the 1970's.
[derailed by anti-mac sentiment]
:bang:
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 20:37
[QUOTE=MartinL]unless, of course, you expect someone to write a dissertation and mount multiple exhibitions when you die.:)
[derailed by anti-mac sentiment]
:bang:
wow you guys like to derail threads!
wpb asked about what happened to my drive. The hardware side of things didn't fail, the drive still turns on, still spins, it doesn't make any clicking sounds or anything. The computers, mac and PC have both been tested, can see the drive, but on the mac, it can't mount, and on the PC it just asks if you want to format it. I am assuming in my slightly techy knowledge that is more than the average person, but also enough to get me in trouble, feels that it has something to with the directory being corrupted. The drive was working fine. I was installing something that locked up my mac and wouldn't quit. I couldn't force quite so I had to hold down the power button to restart.. stupidly I forgot to eject both of my external drives at the time. The main drive that died was plugged into the laptop through firewire. the smaller drive was chained off the big drive. The small drive works fine, the big drive stopped working after the restart.
Unfortunately the drive is formatted Fat32 so I can't use Disk Warrior which was recommended by many websites as working wonders for fixing drives.
ARDEN FRINGE
03-12-2008, 22:49
Apple disk utility should repair a FAT 32 drive, but I have always repaired them on my PC.
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20040913013304988
:cool:
Just like anything else ... AppleMac or Wintel is just an EQUIPMENT to get the job done. Hopefully everybody knows that different camera BRANDS are just EQUIPMENT to get the job done "It's not about the equipment, it's about the photography" (I don't think anybody would use a Rangefinder system to take MACRO images... and argue that it does a better job than an SLR)
I have 2 macs (1 desktop in my kitchen, and 1 laptop) and 4 pc's (1 desktop, 1 media center for DVD/media playback on a projector, 1 game/arcade emulator, 1 tablet pc) each one for a specific purpose.
anyhow...
for backup, I lost a LOT of images/documents in my crash of 1998. Since then I always had AT LEAST a RAID system set up. In the 10 year span, just looking at my RAID system (went from internal hardware RAID to external NAS RAID) I had 2 hard drives crash on me, but thankfully didn't lose any data because of the redundancy.
For the REALLY important stuff, I upload to an off-site server as archive.
so far haven't had to reach into the off-site to restore anything lost on my end. :)
Sorry to here about your crash, After having two hard drives crashing on me, lost 30 gigs of images, I shoot everything I really care about on film, The scans of those negs are stored on 2 hard drives,& CDs, so i have three copies of those images The Backup drives & negs are stored in Fireproof Safes. So I am Protected Either way. Plus when the files become obsolete etc etc.. which they will. dont kid yourself, remember the bmp file format? I can always go back to the negs. And its sad to to say now the real realities of the digital age are coming home to kick us in the face and Boy does it HURT.... Kievman
amateriat
03-13-2008, 00:07
The thing that puts me off about Mac is the same thing that puts me off about Leica - those who believe in the system are glassy-eyed, slack-jawed, nodding heads to whatever Apple does. Apple is not a God, and neither is Leitz.
I run Linux. Mac people need to be deprogrammed in some camp somewhere. Now, now...every platform (camera or computer) has its share of platform-bigots, and it gets on my nerves as well. (But you Linux guys are sooo touchy...) ;)
As I type this, I'm setting up a new PC for a client whose old one flamed-out a few days ago, and she needs it done right now (and it's past 3 in the morning deep in the heart of DUMBO). And I have another tech gig at 11 in the morning. I just had to download Norton 360 for her...again...
I've said it once, and I'll say it again. Back it all up, people (your data, that is, not your claims of platform superiority). It gets ugly when you don't, and wind up wishing you had.
- Barrett
Gabriel M.A.
03-13-2008, 07:40
Linux is not the best tool for the job when it comes to digital photography.
No, a digital camera is.
Gabriel M.A.
03-13-2008, 07:48
Now, now...every platform (camera or computer) has its share of platform-bigots, and it gets on my nerves as well. (But you Linux guys are sooo touchy...) ;)
"Platform-bigots"? Yikes. I guess I was suffering Commodore 64 adversity in the face of IBM PC slant.
C/PM hope died in the Barbaric Q-DOS Invasion. Plague, rather ;)
Gabriel M.A.
03-13-2008, 07:51
Like "How many programmers does it take to change a lightbulb"?
Unfortunately, that's evolved to "how many VPs does it take to give conflicting directions to programmers on the corporate way to change a lightbulb".
Bmatock, please don't insult me over what is obviously a light hearted comment.
I have offered advice, and even offered a free service to back-up peoples work (by the way, if anyone wants to take me up on that you can also share them via FTP so you don't have to send me a disc) so that this sort of thing happens less and less.
What have you done apart fro whine and complain? I'm beginning to see why sitemistic left.
bmattock
03-13-2008, 11:13
Bmatock, please don't insult me over what is obviously a light hearted comment.
It may have been light-hearted, but it wasn't 'obvious'.
Unfortunatly Disk Utilities won't do anything either. It can't mount the drive so everything is greyed out. I don't have a hard drive big enough to put a 300gb disk image anyways so I'll still have to buy a new drive.
So it spins up but doesn't mount? Stuck platters? Can you hear any clicking, or just the whirr of the motor?
Unfortunatly Disk Utilities won't do anything either. It can't mount the drive so everything is greyed out. I don't have a hard drive big enough to put a 300gb disk image anyways so I'll still have to buy a new drive.
Have a look at restorer 2000, I just rescued lots of data from a corrupted drive and previously I saved registry data from a Windows system partition which had been reformated and overwritten with that tool.
http://www.restorer2000.com/
Oh, and to computers, I earn a living with Windows mostly, use Linux as file, database and webserver and as a desktop and have a Macbook as well as a HP Notebook.
At home I have an Intel Board in an old Fujitsu Siemens Case with Ubuntu, a Macbook with Leopard and a HP Notebook dualbooting Vista Business or XP Pro.
The Macbook is my favourite, it just works and it was much cheaper then the HP.
And to my age, RPG means Report Program Generator to me, not Role Playing Game :)
Leighgion
03-13-2008, 12:03
I really need to get an external hard drive for some dedicated Time Machine action. I've been getting by so far just running Synk to keep personal data syncronized between my G5 and MacBook Pro, but I've got to actually run that manually.
Al Patterson
03-13-2008, 12:07
Unfortunately, that's evolved to "how many VPs does it take to give conflicting directions to programmers on the corporate way to change a lightbulb".
I like that. The true answer is "None, that's a hardware problem". So your answer restated as "how many VPs does it take to give conflicting directions to hardware technicians on the corporate way to change a lightbulb" is still quite funny, and also very Dilbertesque as well.
Obviously, you are one of the artists here who is NOT an IT worker playing with cameras on the weekend...
Al Patterson
03-13-2008, 12:10
Unfortunatly Disk Utilities won't do anything either. It can't mount the drive so everything is greyed out. I don't have a hard drive big enough to put a 300gb disk image anyways so I'll still have to buy a new drive.
I did see that those external backup device run about $199 for 500 gig. Maybe you could buy one of those, restore to it, replace the drive in your computer and only copy back what you need?
ARDEN FRINGE
03-13-2008, 12:13
Unfortunatly Disk Utilities won't do anything either. It can't mount the drive so everything is greyed out. I don't have a hard drive big enough to put a 300gb disk image anyways so I'll still have to buy a new drive.
Something wrong here. Disk Utility looks at the drive firmware, as long as the drive is powered up it should see the drive. Now of course it might not be able to repair it, or determine if it is FAT32 if it is not spinning.
You do not need to mount (have it shown on your desktop) the drive to repair it, and in fact the point of repairing it is so it will mount, the drive should however show (maxtor etc) , the volume (the name you gave the drive will not always show).
What version of OS X are you using? Only 10.4.4 or better will repair your drive.
At any rate a repair does not need to make a disk image. My suggestion at this point is take it to a friend who has a PC and repair the FAT (file allocation table, which keeps track of where everything is), from the command line using CKDSK.
In future -- drives used on a Mac really are best formatted in Mac format HFS+ journaled.
ARDEN FRINGE
03-13-2008, 12:39
When the World Trade Center was attacked, 40,000 irreplaceable negatives were lost, taken of the Kennedy years. They are gone forever. If they had been scanned and stored in multiple locations - like the financial data that was also destroyed that day - the world would still have them.
[off topic -- posted in error] :eek:
Film can burn just like a hard drive :p
You can't accidentally delete film.
bmattock
03-13-2008, 12:51
They have been published... most existed as prints, or were recovered from proofs. Any of the important ones had long ago been printed. OLD STORY!
Not true. 40,000 photos were lost. The only ones recovered were printed from tiny contact sheets and previously-printed photographs. Some had been circled in red by the photographer as being important or ones that he planned to have published. All were impressive - given that they were scanned from prints or tiny contact prints. But not one was as good as a pull from the original negative would have been. That's a simple fact.
We simply do not know what was lost - most had not been critically examined, even by the photographer. 40,000 is a lot.
If they were 'all recovered' in your 'old news' then I suppose it would not do to mention that his widow just settled financially with the bank for the loss a month or two ago? Old news, eh?
And the point is still this - film is a single point of failure. You can make any statement you like to the contrary, but you'd be wrong. A copy of a negative or slide is inferior to the original. If the original is lost or destroyed, that's it. Copies may be suitable, but the original is gone.
Digital copies are identical to the original. You can make as many copies as you like, and they are all the same.
Famous street photographer Garry Winogrand left thousands of unprocessed rolls of exposed film behind - even more processed but completely unexamined. I hope they are in a safe place. If something happens to them, they are gone forever.
This isn't about 'film is better than digital' or vice-versa. It is about simple facts. Single points of failure = bad.
bmattock
03-13-2008, 12:55
You can't accidentally delete film.
Ever leave exposed film in a checked bag going through the airport?
Ever open the back of the camera when you THOUGHT you'd rewound?
Ever wind on so far, you tore the end of the film off and nothing got rewound?
Ever misplace your film?
Ever had a flood?
Ever had a house fire?
Ever been burglarized?
And even if you haven't, many have. Happens every day to someone.
You might want to reconsider your statement. Nature, man, and technology effectively 'erases' film all the time. And unlike digital, it is a single point of failure. Once it is gone, it is gone.
ARDEN FRINGE
03-13-2008, 13:32
[off topic -- posted in error] :eek:
bmattock
03-13-2008, 13:53
Doesn't change anything - lost is lost. Whether you think they were worthy or not. They're still gone.
ARDEN FRINGE
03-13-2008, 14:08
Doesn't change anything - lost is lost. Whether you think they were worthy or not. They're still gone.
[off topic -- posted in error] :eek:
Well in Disk Utilities, it sees the drive, the name is wrong, but it does see it. It can't tell the size though, and the spot where it says Repair is greyed out and can't be clicked.
I downloaded the Seagate software for recovering data. It is free for looking at, but you have to pay $130 to actually get the working one that will transfer the images. I ran the test and it did find a lot of data. For some reason it actually found more than was on there! I think it found it multiple times is what happened. Some of it it kept in the folders and some were just images.. It seemed to be less than 50% that were recoverable though unfortunatly. It would say some worked and when I'd open they wouldn't view, but then there were some that said it couldn't do, but did. It also didn't get file types right all the time. I opened one that said jpg and ended up watching Don't Cry video by Guns N Roses! :p
I am not sure what to do. I don't know if I should pay the 130 for 50% and then just deal with that and maybe some day when I have a lot of extra cash, send it in to have a real recovery done that could cost $500-1000. I don't even know if a real recovery would do more or not. I guess no one does til they try.
I don't know what the CKDSK is. Could you explain that too me? I have PC's at work which is where I ran the seagate software from.
ARDEN FRINGE
03-14-2008, 20:12
Hi RdEoSq,
Something is wrong, not sure what you are doing. Sorry you don't live down the street, I am sure I could mount your drive in a moment.
Surely you must have a buddy with a PC so you could run disk repair on that machine?
The reason you are seeing more files is because you are seeing all the deleted files and temporary files that are not normally visible. It is odd you do not see the drive, even with a drive dismounted you should see repair and varify on the right side.
My personal feeling is that your drive is only marginally corrupted. You just need a friend with more skill in this particular area, someone who has done this before.
chkdsk ("Check Disk" sorry I left out the h in my earlier post) is run from the command line in Windows XP or NT, and all earlier versions. I do not have Vista installed so I have no idea what it does (I have read CHKDSK has survived). here is a link http://vlaurie.com/computers2/Articles/chkdsk.htm
Sorry my PC skills are very rusty, I bought my last PC 10 years ago, the only DOS drives I have now are memory cards for my Digital bodies.
If you want me to give you a ring I would be glad to do so, PM me.
Thanks for the help Arden! Ok latest update. I checked the software from seagate again and it crashed on me... this is where it gets odd. When I opened the program again, I could see the drive a lot easier. It is like you said, the reason I was seeing so much corrupted stuff is that it was finding all of the deleted or moved files as well. Now it looks quite normal, in addition to the old folders I see all of the current ones and so far upon reviewing all the files, I have yet to find any corrupted files I couldn't get opened.
I went ahead and bought another hard drive as they were on sale and clearly I need a backup or something anyways. I am going to go ahead and recover the drive over to this new one, and then I am thinking I will format the corrupted one a few times and try to whip it completely clean and then possibly add all the files back to it as a secondary backup, I don't want to rely on it solely after this, but it can't hurt to keep it as a spare copy! Provided the format takes care of the problems that is.
One more question. This drive is Fat32. I wouldn't mind converting my new drive I got to the Mac format.. I forget what it is.. the extended thing. I understand it, just don't remember the name.. anyways, I am not sure how I can do that since the other drive and recovery software are connected to a PC. I assume I will have to leave this one as a FAT32 drive otherwise the PC isn't going to see it. Does anyone see a way around this? I guess I could transfer this one. Then repair the old one. then transfer back to the old one. Then once that is done and I have two drives that are both working, I could connect them to the mac, reformat the new drive to the Mac format, and then transfer the files yet again...
Did you catch that.. surely there is an easier way :p
Update!
Well I used the seagate software to recover the drive. I tried the Mac Disk Utilities again but it just won't let me do anything. The recover and repair settings are always greyed out. I paid the $130 for the Seagate software and it worked perfectly! I now have a perfect copy of my hard drive and I have yet to find a single file corrupted or missing!
Thanks again for all of the help everyone, I really appreciate it!
photomoof
03-17-2008, 21:10
One more question. This drive is Fat32. I wouldn't mind converting my new drive I got to the Mac format.. I forget what it is.. the extended thing. I understand it, just don't remember the name.. anyways, I am not sure how I can do that since the other drive and recovery software are connected to a PC. I assume I will have to leave this one as a FAT32 drive otherwise the PC isn't going to see it. Does anyone see a way around this? I guess I could transfer this one. Then repair the old one. then transfer back to the old one. Then once that is done and I have two drives that are both working, I could connect them to the mac, reformat the new drive to the Mac format, and then transfer the files yet again...
Did you catch that.. surely there is an easier way :p
If you want the drive to read both on a Mac, and on Windows, you have to leave it FAT32, since Windows will not read HFS+, the Mac format.
For backup there is really no problem doing this, as long as you have a PC in case there is a problem. And you never know with hard drives.
You could of course transfer the files as you mention to the new drive, copying back and forth. That way they would be on a drive you could repair on your mac.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.