View Full Version : Encouraging street photography
Roger Hicks
03-07-2008, 08:22
...and getting anti-criminal and anti-terrorist security on the cheap. This seems to me to fit very well with the underlying questions of 'what is photography for?' and 'how can we benefit from it?'
First, a legal right to photograph and publish anything in a public place that is not a Restricted Place within the meaning of the Official Secrets Act. No ifs, buts or maybes.
Second, a government-funded national street photography contest with significant monthly prizes and a big annual prize.
Someone is taking pictures you consider suspicious? Photograph him/her doing it. If they are a terrorist, or a paedophile, or a common thief casing the joint, this will greatly increase their chance of being caught. If they're not: well, you both have a legal right to photograph anything, including each other.
The cost would be trivial -- the prizes, and expenses for the judges.
I first proposed this in my column in Amateur Photographer magazine in the UK in (as far as I recall) October 2005, with the idea that Britain could become a Mecca for street photographers, as well as gaining the security advantages. As no-one in the UK seems keen on it I offer it to the rest of the world...
Cheers,
Roger
Stephanie Brim
03-07-2008, 08:25
Why don't we pull out a street photography contest on our own little forum? I'm getting a new rangefinder soon and my Kiev with the Sonnar is itching to be taken out again. The prizes don't have to be insane. Should we talk about it?
Roger Hicks
03-07-2008, 08:26
Oh, blast, mis-typed 'street'. Can a moderator change this please?
Cheers,
R.
There's no way that a government is going to sponsor a street photography contest, even though it makes good sense - photographers are typically more visually perceptive and would make great "watch dogs" against terrorism, but privately sponsored strret photography contests would get photographers out onto the streets, asserting their rights. Great idea, Roger!
Perhaps we have found a leader for photographers' rights. Excellent credentials.
Roger, I like this idea; it keeps public photography above board and visible, while simultaneously addressing the supposed "security" concerns of photographing people, locations and buildings in public.
I would propose this could be implemented by the "it's better to ask for foregiveness than permission" theory, as a grass-roots movement of photographers assembling in an area en masse.
~Joe
I am all for this. I am a firm believer in anything that gets people out and about with their cameras. If in so doing we assert our legal rights by peaceful means so much the better.
My suggestion would be a little more subtle, however - why not seek to get it sponsored by the Metropolitan Police as a "counterbalance"?
Regards,
Bill
Roger, I like this idea; it keeps public photography above board and visible, while simultaneously addressing the supposed "security" concerns of photographing people, locations and buildings in public.
I would propose this could be implemented by the "it's better to ask for foregiveness than permission" theory, as a grass-roots movement of photographers assembling in an area en masse.
~Joe
Sort of Flash(mob)photography...?:D
Regards,
Bill
p.s. Please note removal of colour from quote to enhance READABILITY!!!!
Street photographers: the solution, not the problem!
or
Street photography: the solution, not the problem!
Bloody excellent idea, Roger!
I posted this in the "My Fellow Criminals" thread, that has now been relegated to "Off Topic" to kill it. I am therefore repeating it here:
http://fourthirds-user.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11964&postcount=7
This is simply the best statement of UK photographers' rights that I have seen in recent times, taking into account the recent anti-terrorism legislation. I would urge all UK street photographers to print and carry a copy.
Regards,
Bill
Sort of Flash(mob)photography...?:D
Regards,
Bill
p.s. Please note removal of colour from quote to enhance READABILITY!!!!
Yes, or perhaps a bit like Critical Mass, the bicycle-rights rally, only without the hijinks. I'm thinking of a name like "Exposure Time", or some-such photo-related terminology.
~Joe
T-shirts that say:
Street photographers against terrorism.
or
Street Photograhy:
Smile if you're a terrorist.
Let's do a competition. I have hosting space on a fast sever with unlimited bandwidth if you need a place to host it all. I also have access to a gallery in Norwich almost whenever I want.
I'd be well up for being involved some how.
MCTuomey
03-07-2008, 09:51
stephanie, congrats on the new family member!!
my street photography is awful ... but i'd contribute to the prize fund just to see others' work.
cosmonot
03-07-2008, 10:07
Roger - thanks for supporting my idea!
Though I do think this initiative will be rendered useless without the mandatory state-sponsored photo classes in all elementary/primary/secondary/whatever schools. I mean, what good is a photo of a terrorist if it's out of focus, under/over exposed, and poorly composed? We can forget it's value to law enforcement. In that case, the best we can hope for is "fine art."
;)
xayraa33
03-07-2008, 10:24
this is on fine idea, how do we get the people who pass laws to go for it?
this will be especially good for the UK, and Henry Fox Talbot can finally stop rolling in his grave.
I wonder if the government consider street photography to be a "healthy" pursuit?
After all, they need more hospitalisation than most, don't they? ;)
I mean, what good is a photo of a terrorist if it's out of focus, under/over exposed, and poorly composed? We can forget it's value to law enforcement. In that case, the best we can hope for is "fine art."
;)
Cosmo, I know you're taking the p155, you must have seen the quality of the surveillance footage of shoplifters, muggers, terrorists etc. I wouldn't recognise my wife from most of that stuff!
Cheers.
Just think of the reverse theology of all this. Next time Bozo the rent a badge or some other nosy comes up to you and ask what are you doing? Just tell them you are a photographer for Homeland Security, (or some sort) and are out photographing the community for the ensure of keeping our streets safe from terrorist & crooks, perverts, etc.. We can become like the Guardian Angles in NYC. Instead of being the intimidated we then become the intimidators.;)
I'm Asian. I don't think our governments would approve that they sponsor this kind of event. Nor do they t want to see their shortcomings and broken promises being hailed with pomp exposure.
"Street Photography: We do it on the Street"
Stephanie Brim
03-07-2008, 11:24
Coed Naked Street Photography
We shoot on the street!
...
Yeah, sorry. Really. :)
Stephanie Brim
03-07-2008, 11:29
Let's do a competition. I have hosting space on a fast sever with unlimited bandwidth if you need a place to host it all. I also have access to a gallery in Norwich almost whenever I want.
I'd be well up for being involved some how.
I really do want to do something. After having a baby, I need an excuse to get the boyfriend to go walking with me in Des Moines.
PetarDima
03-07-2008, 11:29
Roger, we had at least 1 contest for a year on this site(older members will tell more about that). Last contest was inspired by HCB's street work ... the rules was very interesanting: to shoot
with RF camera & 50mm lens(or f.l. close to 50mm). 3 shots from one photographer. The prize was incredible! ZI body + 50mm f:2 ZM lens!( donor was pop-photo). Top 10(or 12) shots gallery was very, very nice ...
Regards, Vlad
P.S. Nice to see you again on RFF Steph, all best to baby-girl!
There appears to be a great deal of govermental and privately sponsored "street" photography already going on. Consider the traffic cameras, red-light cameras, street corner cameras, home security cams, business surveillance cameras, ATM cameras, lobby-cams, dorm cams, carwash cams, nanny cams.... Not to mention everybody snapping away with their phone cameras and posting video to CNN and You Tube 24 hours a day ad nauseum.
I believe any government that really looks at such a proposal would consider it redundant.
Have folks seen the Street View on google maps in San Francisco?
Google maps: San Francisco (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=san+francisco&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl)
Click on Street View and then click on the little person. Cool stuff.
David Goldfarb
03-07-2008, 11:59
Encouraging street photography
...and getting anti-criminal and anti-terrorist security on the cheap.
It sounds enough like the East German Stasi, that maybe my government would go for it.
Roger Hicks
03-07-2008, 12:08
Suggestion from Frances:
Put it up as a petition on the Downing Street web-site.
I'd do it myself but (a) I'm old and tired and lazy and (b) I don't live in the UK.
Any takers? I'll try to garner magazine support if anyone is willing to try...
Cheers,
R.
Al Patterson
03-07-2008, 12:27
Just think of the reverse theology of all this. Next time Bozo the rent a badge or some other nosy comes up to you and ask what are you doing? Just tell them you are a photographer for Homeland Security, (or some sort) and are out photographing the community for the ensure of keeping our streets safe from terrorist & crooks, perverts, etc.. We can become like the Guardian Angles in NYC. Instead of being the intimidated we then become the intimidators.;)
We should all get t-shirts and hats, just like the Guardian Angels. A neat idea...
OK, everybody on the street carry a camera.
Whenever someone takes your picture.... Snap Back!
If everyone is taking pictures, the pervs, pedophiles and terrorists will disappear.... hmmmm?
Of course, now we end up with candid shots where everybody's face is obscured by a camera and a left or right hand.
I made that excellent summing up of our rights in the UK into a nice little PDF, well a big multi-page A4 PDF, but it still can be printed small. If anyone wants the original Pages document PM me.
www.ingenieursonline.co.uk/UK Photographers Rights 2008.pdf
T-shirts and hats:
S.P.A.T. (street photographers against terrorism)
Join the S.P.A.T. Team!
We'll need a web site: www.SPAT.org
or:
P.S.P. (patriotic street photographers)
And, we need a charismatic, persistent and belligerent leader. Roger? Bill?
jimi-the-jive
03-07-2008, 15:14
I love the idea but isn't it missing the piont a little, surely the problem is not as much the government as public opinion. I live in ireland and we don't have as much of an institutional problem as a social one, but the public reaction to photographers makes street photography infuriating, and largely fruitless.
or:
P.S.P. (patriotic street photographers)
F.N.L.T.
Flashers Need Love Too...............just a thought
sorry :angel:
Al Patterson
03-07-2008, 15:34
And, we need a charismatic, persistent and belligerent leader. Roger? Bill?
Well, a while back I would have suggested sitemistic, but now I have to go with Roger.
or:
P.S.P. (patriotic street photographers)
I like that. We could be like the Patriot Guard Riders. We could also start a group on Flickr.
http://www.patriotguard.org/Home/tabid/53/Default.aspx
What Dogman said. If the government can photograph anything they want, so can we. Government is of the people, by the people, and for the people.
Great thread, Roger! Great thread!
Roger Hicks
03-08-2008, 00:49
I love the idea but isn't it missing the piont a little, surely the problem is not as much the government as public opinion. . ..
Not really. The point is, in part, to turn public opinion around so that photographers are portrayed as The Good Guys, not The Bad Guys; as Part Of The Solution, not Part Of the Problem.
The raw capitalism of the prizes will guarantee plenty of participation and the red-top papers will soon come on board when they realize the potential for Citizen Journalism.
('Red tops' is the UK name for the cheap press, with their red mast-heads)
In Ireland, you could do three monthly prizes: 10,000, 5,000 and 1,000 euros plus 10x 100 euro runner-up prizes -- 17,000 a month, 204,000 a year -- and a grand annual prize of 50,000. That's just over a quarter of a million euros. You then need premises and a small secretarial staff (2 people?), plus expenses for judges. You could run the whole thing for half a million a year, which is dirt cheap by security standards...
In the US, do it on a state by state basis -- same prizes, but in dollars -- with a national prize of $100,000. Total cost $50 million a year at the outside?
Cheers,
R.
And every motor insurance company encourages you to carry a camera and if involved in an accident PHOTOGRAPH it.
Roger Hicks
03-08-2008, 01:10
And every motor insurance company encourages you to carry a camera and if involved in an accident PHOTOGRAPH it.
Hmmm... Maybe we've found a sponsor. The government LOVES 'pubic-private partnerships'.
Cheers,
R.
Hmmm... Maybe we've found a sponsor. The government LOVES 'pubic-private partnerships'.
Cheers,
R.
Not sure about 'pubic'-private partnerships Roger although it might be worth asking for a 'Norwich Union'.
Regards
Peter.
Roger, your suggestions sound good but there's one snag... they would give people power. Power the governments don't trust us with. We might just get so powerful and self-confident we don't need the government's protection anymore. All them politicians will loose their power and will actually have to do some real work on real problems.
charjohncarter
03-08-2008, 07:35
Good idea, this anti-criminal things has worked in the past. Some fashion photographer photographed an individual shooting someone during a fashion shoot. Or was that in a movie.
Roger Hicks
03-08-2008, 07:51
Roger, your suggestions sound good but there's one snag... they would give people power. Power the governments don't trust us with. We might just get so powerful and self-confident we don't need the government's protection anymore. All them politicians will loose their power and will actually have to do some real work on real problems.
Ah....
You have identified exactly the same problem as I did at the end of the original AP piece. Which is why I had let it lie dormant until this thread.
Cheers,
R.
xayraa33
03-08-2008, 07:59
Roger, your suggestions sound good but there's one snag... they would give people power. Power the governments don't trust us with. We might just get so powerful and self-confident we don't need the government's protection anymore. All them politicians will loose their power and will actually have to do some real work on real problems.
This is a very good point.
Government and Corporations( and I include national organized religions here too) would not want each human being to discover the potential power within each of us.
It is better to let keep the population sedated with TV, consumerisim and paranoid by manufactured terrorist fear and racial- ethnic divisions.
the old divide and conquer.
eric rose
03-08-2008, 08:16
The bunch over at APUG were yakking about doing a Wee Gee shootout. You know get out the old Speeds and do some night street stuff. Well I got pissed with all the "talk" and no action and challenged them to actually DO SOMETHING instead of just talking. My Large Format group here in Calgary got together and 3 brave souls went out on Feb 29th in downtown Calgary and did some night shooting on the maln downtown strip. We got some great stuff and had a lot of fun.
So did any of the rest of the APUG'rs do anything? Well of course not! The thread went dead after I challenged them to get away from their keyboards and actually do some real photography rather than just talk about it. Geez.
The photos I took are in my gallery on APUG if your interested.
http://www.apug.org/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=305
I think you have to be a subsriber to view them. I used my Linhof Tech IV with Sunpack potato masher flash, Nikkor 135mm lens and HP5 film rated at 400. Souped it in D76 1:1.
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