is it real or is it.....

[LChanyungco]

i bid on and won this Leica II... i'm begining to wonder about this camera because the shutter release looks to be from a russian copy.. anyone have any idea just by looking at this photo if this is the real deal or just a fake. i hope i didnt get taken.

[adonf]

:eek:

Please, tell me this is a joke !!!

Every single detail is screwed up :rolleyes::o

[LChanyungco]

i was afraid of this.. looks like its too late to cancel the payment.

[LChanyungco]

what gives it away ? for me it is the shutter release. in hindsight of course :bang:

[Gabriel M.A.]

what gives it away ? for me it is the shutter release. in hindsight of course :bang:

The shutter dial and the rangefinder windows give it away. The letter engraving is "competently amateur" at best; the shutter button is also a giveaway.

Sorry.

Or not, if you are into FSU bodies that undergo "plastic surgery".

Aunque la mona se vista de seda, mona se queda. :(

[trittium]

If it was sold as a leica, I would see if you can get out of it.

[LChanyungco]

thanks everyone, Trit i'm trying my hardest to get out of it but the seller has not responded to any of my emails. do you think contacting paypal would help ?

[BillP]

thanks everyone, Trit i'm trying my hardest to get out of it but the seller has not responded to any of my emails. do you think contacting paypal would help ?

Yes.

Did you pay using paypal funds or a credit card through paypal? If the latter stop the credit card payment. Also contact eBay and report a fraudulent transaction.

Regards,

Bill

[xayraa33]

hold your horses ,It looks to be a real Leica II.
the vf window has the lintel piece of a real Leica.
the shutter dial is the add on external flash sync cam type.
the shutter release guard is the accessory type popular in the US in the 1940s.
it looks to be the real McCoy.

[dlove5]

I second that it is a real Leica

The shutter speed dial looks like a replacement one that includes a flash synch knob.
The shutter button shroud is exactly like one I used to have for my IIIa.

[LChanyungco]

i paid via paypal using my bank acct...

oooh i hope you guys are right about the camera being genuine. but by now i have emailed the seller asking for my money back... but since she hasnt responded to any of my emails i'm wondering if this is some other kind of fraud. i'm a bit confused as to what steps to take next. please advise.

[xayraa33]

Examine the front vf window metal stamping on the one you bought, to any Zorki 1 or Fed 1 picture on the net and you will see the FSU cameras are different to the Leica LTM body.

[BillP]

hold your horses ,It looks to be a real Leica II.
the vf window has the lintel piece of a real Leica.
the shutter dial is the add on external flash sync cam type.
the shutter release guard is the accessory type popular in the US in the 1940s.
it looks to be the real McCoy.
The shutter dial looks wrong. The rewind lever looks wrong. The engraving looks wrong. The platform under the shutter dial is the wrong shape. One of the screws is in the wrong place. The "vulcanite" looks like a stick-on fabric. The release guard is definitely an aftermarket addition. The serial number would make it a 1940 II

Can you post the description?


Regards,

Bill

[LChanyungco]

" Leica II D.R.P. Ernst Leitz Wetzler, screwmount rangefinder, serial # 352007 (1940) with Carl Zeiss lens Jena Nr. 3007216 Sonnar 1:2 f=5cm, and silver lens cap. Condition: Overall, very good operating condition, only normal wear, no scratches, gouges, bullet holes or shrapnel dings. 1 square inch of black leather-grained vulcanite missing on front side under lens. Brought back from WWII by relative and stored since 1951. No refunds. Shipping only within US. "

i hope its real... i like the serial number ;)

[BillP]

I'm sitting here with my Leica II to hand, and the Leica Pocket Book 7th Edition. The last observation I would make is that the viewfinder window frame is missing the notch that mine has, and the picture in the book has.

This is mine:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2067/2232808529_706f7a20d0_o.jpg

Regards,

Bill

[xayraa33]

The shutter dial looks wrong. The rewind lever looks wrong. The engraving looks wrong. The platform under the shutter dial is the wrong shape. One of the screws is in the wrong place. The "vulcanite" looks like a stick-on fabric. The release guard is definitely an aftermarket addition. The serial number would make it a 1940 II

Can you post the description?


Regards,

Bill

I disagree Bill .
the shutter dial and shutter realease guard are all optional replacements that are legit for the time period.
most FSU camera fakers do not work the front vf window top lintel stamping to make it resemble the Leica front VF window.
all the screws look to be in the right place, and the stamping in the top view inc. the engraving look crisp and a dead ringer to the 1938 Leica III body that I am holding in my hand at present.

[xayraa33]

since the serial # is around circa 1940, the vf window outline would be like this one on this IIIb.


http://rafcamera.com/35mm/non-russian/leica-3b.htm

[xayraa33]

here is a pic of a 1938 Leica II on this site.
notice the vf window shape is like what the OP camera pic has.

http://licm.org.uk/livingImage/Leica_II.html

[Limpovitj]

It's a real Leica. Heck, I even think the lens is genuine!

[dlove5]

Part of the problem in identifying a Leica II is that had a relatively long production span beginning in 1932 and some assembled as late as 1947/48. I was browsing several sources and I see the different VF windows. Then you throw in a few non standard parts and .... a fun discussion erupts..

Not to mention the real fakes!

[CameraQuest]

the body is a real but slightly modified Leica.

the lens is a real "Zeiss Lens" which may or may not have been made by Zeiss,
or by the Ruskies as a sales gimmick. Zeiss nuts are still trying to sort that one out.

Stephen

[LChanyungco]

thank you Stephen and everyone !! i feel like i just stepped off a roller coaster. i've sent the seller an email apologizing for my claims that the camera is fake... but still no response from her. when she finally gets home to ALL of my emails she's going to think i'm insane. thanks again everyone.

[BillP]

thank you Stephen and everyone !! i feel like i just stepped off a roller coaster. i've sent the seller an email apologizing for my claims that the camera is fake... but still no response from her. when she finally gets home to ALL of my emails she's going to think i'm insane. thanks again everyone.

I will be happy to be proven wrong, but it still doesn't feel right to me.

Regards,

Bill

[LChanyungco]

i guess we'll know 100% after i send it in for its CLA. thanks for your input Bill !

[BillP]

i guess we'll know 100% after i send it in for its CLA. thanks for your input Bill !

You're welcome. I do hope I am wrong. Once you get it, just unscrew the lens and look at the focussing cam. It should be a wheel, not a solid cam.

Regards,

Bill

[colyn]

I'm sitting here with my Leica II to hand, and the Leica Pocket Book 7th Edition. The last observation I would make is that the viewfinder window frame is missing the notch that mine has, and the picture in the book has.

This is mine:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2067/2232808529_706f7a20d0_o.jpg

Regards,

Bill

The Leica II had 2 different viewfinder frames the one like yours and the other fuller with a slightly squared off edge. Just looked it up in the book..

The camera in the OP's photos is a real Leica..

[LChanyungco]

The camera in the OP's photos is a real Leica..



my systolic pressure drops with every positive I.D. thanks Colyn.

[Limpovitj]

the body is a real but slightly modified Leica.

the lens is a real "Zeiss Lens" which may or may not have been made by Zeiss,
or by the Ruskies as a sales gimmick. Zeiss nuts are still trying to sort that one out.


Yes, I limit my "even the lens is genuine" above, to that the glass is a genuine Zeiss Sonnar - as it looks to be uncoated. It's not one of the common Russkie Sonnars made put of Jupiters with re-engraved name rings, that's for sure.

[john neal]

At first glance, I would say this looks OK to me. When you get the camera, take the bottom plate off and have a look at the layout of the flat spring across the bottom of the shutter crate, the tension adjustments and the bottom of the shutter release rod, etc. If you can post a pic here, it will greatly help in a final decision as to genuine or not.

For the moment, my money is on it being OK - there are a couple of variations of the VF window surround, and as has been pointed out the speed dial could be the flashsync one - as for the shutter release, my II came with exactly the same one - it will unscrew from the body to reveal the original knob underneath. It was an early attempt at a soft release, and helped to keep your finger away from the speed dial during exposure.

Don't panic just yet....

[jolefler]

and it's very similar. The VF window is identicle. Even the shutter guard ring is similar, though not identicle, to my 1937 II also in chrome. Really, the big give away is the RF cam....when you check it, it should be a wheel, not a wedge.

Jo

[George S.]

Since no one has mentioned this yet, allow me to state what should be obvious-
That the time to do the research into a purchase would be BEFORE the ebay bid and not after winning the auction. :(
But hey, I hope it works out well for you.

[Gabriel M.A.]

hold your horses ,It looks to be a real Leica II.
the vf window has the lintel piece of a real Leica.
the shutter dial is the add on external flash sync cam type.
the shutter release guard is the accessory type popular in the US in the 1940s.
it looks to be the real McCoy.
Really? Well, then, I would have sent this back; it really looks odd.

Isn't knowledge a nice helpful thing?

It really looked like a "job" to me.

[Limpovitj]

Yes, I limit my "even the lens is genuine" above, to that the glass is a genuine Zeiss Sonnar - as it looks to be uncoated. It's not one of the common Russkie Sonnars made put of Jupiters with re-engraved name rings, that's for sure.

Ah, yes, quoting myself... I've changed my mind about the coating. In one of the pictures I think I'm seeing a faint red "T", which would mean that's it's coated. I still don't think the lens is a Soviet fake, though, at least not of the plain rebadged Jupiter-8 variety, since it doesn't share the barrel design of any Jupiter-8 that I've seen.

[burninfilm]

Don't you love it when you ask a question about a recent purchase, only to be drastically misinformed? Giving out advice and expertise is great, but only when the information given is verifiable fact.

This camera, as has been noted before, appears by ALL signs to be genuine. The serial number matches up well with the features of the camera (for instance, the frame around the viewfinder window is the correct shape, which was also mentioned earlier). The black covering does NOT appear to be fabric. It seems to be cracked/chipped/broken exactly like the brittle vulcanite Leica used to cover the camera bodies. The shutter release collar and shutter speed knob can be found on LOTS of similar vintage Leica cameras.

Doing research before a purchase is good advice. However, it's also good not to believe everything you read when asking a question in an internet based photography forum.

[LeicaTom]

Finally I get to put my TWO CENTS here about this camera.......

Sorry I normally "jump" all over 1939 to 1945 Leica posted stuff but I have been gone from here a few days ;)

This is a REAL Leica folks, a seemingly uncommon WW2 1940 issue Leica II with a aftermarket "soft release" collar, often put on there after the original ones were lost etc. etc. and an accessory shutter speed ring - (this camera was more than likely brought home by a returning American GI)

The vulcanite damage is normal for 1939 to 1946 issue Leica`s the vulcanite changed patterns twice during the war years and the rubber "gummi" content was`nt so gut damals and so after 60+ years alles ist gonna be ein bisschen little bit KAPUTT - about 60% of all "wartime" Leica have bad vulcanite and must be replaced or repaired - DON`T remove what`s STILL left on the camera, I know someone who might? be able to RESTORE that for you

The f2.0 Sonnar looks like it MIGHT? be an original one......hard to tell, in these photos, or could be a co-op/Russkie CZ CKO lens from the 1946/49 era - would the OP please send me some photos of it when you get this camera and I can give you my insight on it

Tom

[DrLeoB]

WOW, what is up with these people who just seem to want to bash anyone who
has a great camera??? There is absolutely nothing about this body
that is not valid. I have worked for several years understanding the nuances of Leicas
from this period and completely believe that this is a good purchase. You should consider that there is nothing substantial about the naysayers remarks (perhaps they are the competition?) better to consider my remarks including, especially Tom E. and Stephen G.'s remarks. I have three of these bodies with valid history (and fully disassembled, by me and CLA'd) and there is nothing bogus here. I also own several FSU's which have dramatically d ifferent internal construction! The clincher here would be to see some of the internal images, baseplate construction, film loading plate, etc. The russian cameras are also very different here. I am really disturbed at the negative nature of many of these postings ... The buyer just asked a simple question and doesn't deserve the amount of "you're a jerk" attitude ... lighten up guys!!!

[xayraa33]

That's what this place seems to be turning into," I am right, you are wrong" ego inflating type of forum.
the OP wanted some help and most of us tried doing just that.
some like to squabble because they fear that their opinion might wrong or someone says the contrary to what they said.
in the end it all won't matter folks.

[john neal]

Well said Leo!

I don't have the necessary level of knowledge or experience to tell anyone that their camera is a fake. Even if I did, would it help?

[hou baloo]

I was attracted to this site by what I perceived to be a generally collegial atmosphere, where there could be disagreement - even strong disagreement - without rancor or arrogance. I'm here for light, not heat, and I hope we can police ourselves to maintain that atmosphere.

[LChanyungco]

update : the Leica II is real, and so is the Sonnar :cool:
thanks for all the help everyone.

[xayraa33]

update : the Leica II is real, and so is the Sonnar :cool:
thanks for all the opinions everyone.

Good to hear that you got official hands on confirmation.
I had no doubts about that Leica body's authenticity even by looking at the small pics of it on a computer monitor.
Bonus on the lens.
I am sure Leica Tom would love to use a lens like that.

[LeicaTom]

Yep!

LC, too bad you sold that lens.....it would have been a real treat to see what that one does :)

I just acquired a Leitz Xenon f1.5 this week and I`m waiting for it in the mail, an original 3-ring version uncoated - so an original version, will be a delight to compare it to the more modern 1950`s Summarit and just see how different the looks were between 1936 and 1956

Tom

[LChanyungco]

Yep!

LC, too bad you sold that lens.....it would have been a real treat to see what that one does :)

I just acquired a Leitz Xenon f1.5 this week and I`m waiting for it in the mail, an original 3-ring version uncoated - so an original version, will be a delight to compare it to the more modern 1950`s Summarit and just see how different the looks were between 1936 and 1956

Tom

sorry Tom, had i known you wanted to shoot the Sonnar i would have sent it to you. :(

[jarski]

boy what a reading :) seeing the first posts and the pictures, I would have claimed this as FSU copy as well. but good I'm late, as usual :)