View Full Version : Can you photograph emotion?
One of the things that I find my teacher friend and I talking about from time to time is photographing emotion. We debate photos taken by people such as Constantine Manos or any of the old greats like HCB or Capa or Frank or whoever. Looking from picture to picture and first commenting on the feeling the image gives us but then also thinking about "did this person capture the emotion....or did we just respond with emotion to what was captured?"
What do you think? Is there a specific photo or something that when you look at it you think "that is happiness" or "that is anger" or "this is joy". Is there any work out there that when you look at this you think the person has capture the quintessential essence of emotion?
Please, discuss this amongst your selfs, we do here and find it quite interesting to see different peoples responses to the same pictures. Please though show examples, your work, others work, the greats, give your points of view substance as my friend tries to pound out of me.
ps. I forgot to mention, when my friend and I do this we do not look at any words written with the photo, no articles or explanations of what is going on. We are looking for just raw feeling from the photo itself, but I encourage you to write some of your points of view on why.
As another acquaintance of mine said "Today people flips through photos and magazines really fast, a really good photo stops them" -M. Yama****a
I'm sure we photograph emotion. I just hesitate when it comes to the viewer interpreting the emotion. Far too often a photo is described as showing a person with such and such emotion/look in the yes, but when I look at that photo I see something rather different. Maybe it's just me but I think most people are notoriously bad at interpreting the emotions on people's faces and in their body language. A man holding his face in his hands, is he sad or tired or wary or just rubbing his eyes?
(I'm at work so I can't provide examples of photos right now. Will try to later)
Maxapple88
03-05-2008, 02:41
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2208/2286363017_45f987f925.jpg?v=0
This is happiness - by Gary Winogrand:
http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/winogrand/images/Garry-Winogrand300dpi.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2052/2291420587_b34cb89482_b.jpg
I think emotions could be interpreted directly or indirectly by the observant. It is really great art to nail emotions that are universally same way interpreted. I mean, sometimes the emotions are only contextually evident, but while observed by different people we have different understanding. Try this one
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/data/500/joseph2-crop-750.jpg
it brings up "what is emotion" and "what is photograph". does emotion equal expression?, if yes then it can be photographed, if not... the no. i guess it boils down to each persons take on the matter...
personally; i could take a photo of the look on your face, and the guy behind me at the 1hour shop could react to the photo, but he would not be seeing your emotion at the time of snapping the pic. otoh i have no doubts this subject can raise some spirited discussion at rff
otoh i have no doubts this subject can raise some spirited discussion at rff
Care to explain why? We have great success here talking in our little groups about these things, it seems that a group of people who do nothing but look at photos should be able to find something in it.
namely because of what you say, that you have success in discussing various matters of photography, where people have opinions from pretty much all directions. (could i have been messing up the english language??, in any case my comment was meant in the best of ways ,-)
namely because of what you say, that you have success in discussing various matters of photography, where people have opinions from pretty much all directions. (could i have been messing up the english language??, in any case my comment was meant in the best of ways ,-)
Oh my....im afraid I am the one who make the mistake. Misread. I have been thinking in Chinese for so long here that I miss things sometimes, sorry, its all back to front for me lately....:rolleyes:
Seems we just proved you can at least interpret some emotion from a photo, but misinterpret the emotion in text very easily indeed
Note the smiley face :)
martin-f5
03-05-2008, 03:26
of course!
It is for this reason that I love street photography. Though I myself have not taken any, being relatively new to photography, I enjoy the photos posted here and at photo.net which include street photography. Portraits are great too. I find myself often taking a seat in a park or at the university and just watching people go by, trying to read their emotions. It is fascinating. When looking at street photography, it is as if I am there, walking with the crowd. Do I misinturpret the emotion? Probably much of the time. What I think is more important is the emotions that it stirs up in you. In Lazar's photo, I think of an elderly gentleman happily recalling distant memories which are invoked by the image/letter he is holding. In "This is happiness - by Gary Winogrand:", I agree that that photo captures the emotion of happiness.
Seems we just proved you can at least interpret some emotion from a photo, but misinterpret the emotion in text very easily indeed
Note the smiley face :)
Why the smily face?
There is a whole field of study in facial emotion, and a great deal of communication is done non-verbally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microexpression
It is hard for words to convey the message as accurately, or at least it take more words.
In fact I've heard the expression "A picture is worth a thousand words"
I am surprized, that this is not assumed as a major reason to take pictures of people.
Why the smily face?
There is a whole field of study in facial emotion, and a great deal of communication is done non-verbally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microexpression
It is hard for words to convey the message as accurately, or at least it take more words.
In fact I've heard the expression "A picture is worth a thousand words"
I am surprized, that this is not assumed as a major reason to take pictures of people.
Yes, that would explain why you took my post literally, there’s no irony emoticon you see. The smiley was to indicate a lack of malice.
<enigmatic smiley>
Eg
http://www.magnumphotos.com/Archive/C.aspx?VP=Mod_ViewBox.ViewBoxZoom_VPage&VBID=2K1HZO65YOFQL&IT=ImageZoom01&PN=24&STM=T&DTTM=Image&SP=Album&IID=2TYRYD94PO97&SAKL=T&SGBT=T&DT=Image
Good food for thought. You can capture a person expressing an emotion, or you can have the photo convey an emotion: they don't have to express the same. Generally I don't consider this when shooting, I will keep this in my mind. It opens up a lot of possibilities: capture an emotion, sometimes it will be deeper when the viewer's emotion is totally different. Background/scenery would be the key then.
Difficult to explain, sometimes there is a pic that makes me feel happy, sometimes sad... it's the scenery, the context, the expressions... don't know what is exactly but yes, it's possible to freeze the emotions and feelings in a single pic
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/6715/leicam6132or3.jpg
Seems we just proved you can at least interpret some emotion from a photo, but misinterpret the emotion in text very easily indeed
Note the smiley face
<enigmatic smiley>
(my ravings here)
Yes, that would explain why you took my post literally, there’s no irony emoticon you see. The smiley was to indicate a lack of malice.
<enigmatic smiley>
Exactly! you can get some sense of emotion from a photo - but not as easily from the words.
Here is a smily and wink back to you ;) We're on the same page/print.
personally i find the emotion evoked in the viewer a much more interesting phenomenon than whether or not an emotion can be photographed.
Yes... both for the viewer and for the subject
http://www.chang-sang.com/photo/071206/crop0009_8x10.jpg
My dad, late May 2006, after being in Brazil for almost a month while his wife (my mom) lay in a coma due to a ruptured brain aneurysm.
I think, even if you didn't know the story, you can get the feeling that the subject has "had enough"... frustration.... weariness... spent.
Cheers
Dave
From my point of view a photographer can photograph emotions, can photograph with the aim of evoking an emotion in the viewer but, what about his emotions ? may a photo show a photographer's feeling?
In my opinion Dave's dad photo makes me feel all aspects of the emotions involved in that photo: from my point of view he not only perfectly caught the emetion felt by his father but he also involved me in that mood (I mean in a compassionate way) but I also see (it's my point of view) his feelings of compassion and respect of the subject.
In my opinion Dave's dad photo makes me feel all aspects of the emotions involved in that photo: from my point of view he not only perfectly caught the emetion felt by his father but he also involved me in that mood (I mean in a compassionate way) but I also see (it's my point of view) his feelings of compassion and respect of the subject.
Except that without Dave's background information there's no way of telling what emotion his father is going through at the moment of clicking the shutter!
What if Dave had told us this was his uni math teacher pondering a problem posed by his student on a house visit? Would we feel there's the same emotion in the photo? No.
There are a billion ways to peel a potato.
Yet I guess I only know of three.
Emotions to some aren't emotions to others.
The rule of majority isn't always politically, economically or philosophically correct.
Just tell me that you've captured emotion with your photo and I'll gladly receive that. I'd be glad you've seen for yourself something which I may never see at all. Not that I do believe you've captured proving some mathematically formulated pattern but that you've seen something I was not capable of seeing if I were in your shoes. And vice versa.
Your discussion with your teacher is a very nice thought to ponder Avotius.
Except that without Dave's background information there's no way of telling what emotion his father is going through at the moment of clicking the shutter!
What if Dave had told us this was his uni math teacher pondering a problem posed by his student on a house visit? Would we feel there's the same emotion in the photo? No.
Hi Remi,
I see your point and not having Dave's story revealed would have make it more interesting (for the purpose) but all I see is a man in a pose of someone with some heavy weight over his shoulders, you're right I can't tell what's exactly happening to him but that is the impression I have: a man with a problem in the real world.
@ Dave, the photo is about a very personal and intimate moment and discussing about it in foreign language I poorly command may bring me to write something inappropriate, so I beg your pardon if it may happen.
Hi Remi,
I see your point and not having Dave's story revealed would have make it more interesting (for the purpose) but all I see is a man in a pose of someone with some heavy weight over his shoulders, you're right I can't tell what's exactly happening to him but that is the impression I have: a man with a problem in the real world.
Nico, I understand. But what you're referring to is the emotion seen/perceived by the viewer, not the emotion felt by the subject in the photo. I understood Avotius' OP to relate to the emotion of the subject.
@ Dave, the photo is about a very personal and intimate moment and discussing about it in foreign language I poorly command may bring me to write something inappropriate, so I beg your pardon if it may happen.
Yes, I agree with Nico. I too felt a bit uncomfortable using your photo as an example for my notions. If I gave cause for offence, please pardon me.
Nico, I understand. But what you're referring to is the emotion seen/perceived by the viewer, not the emotion felt by the subject in the photo. I understood Avotius' OP to relate to the emotion of the subject.
Another good point Remi that raise, at least for me, another question (hope better related to Avotius OP): does photographing an emotion need always the face or the eyes involved? May a gesture or a pose be enough (I think it's the case of Dave's photo) to catch a subject's emotion?
I think you can always convey an emotion through a photograph, which doesn't necessarily translate into having captured an emotion. The latter is what the subject was feeling the former what the viewer felt.
michaelbialecki
03-05-2008, 07:14
Interesting discussion....here is a photo.... feel free to comment, I will explain what it is later......
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2196/2232485045_d57f01053a_b.jpg
michael
Todd.Hanz
03-05-2008, 07:20
http://my-expressions.com/up_media/1108/pblog/6682/1160622410.jpg
Todd
PetarDima
03-05-2008, 07:23
good topic! many, many fine shots here :)
No emotion? ... No photo!
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h272/PetarDima/Cekaonica.jpg
http://my-expressions.com/up_media/1108/pblog/6682/1160622410.jpg
Todd
To my comment above... emotionally it looks like hes suffering for a dodgy vindaloo (or fried chicken)
viewers emotional reaction versus subjects :eek:
Todd.Hanz
03-05-2008, 07:24
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2322/2096944047_d5557d1a36.jpg
Todd
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2322/2096944047_d5557d1a36.jpg
Todd
Same problem, just a touch too late...
Michael Da Re
03-05-2008, 07:49
Interesting discussion....here is a photo.... feel free to comment, I will explain what it is later......
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2196/2232485045_d57f01053a_b.jpg
michael I agree with Teus that the background has a lot to do with emotions. To me the girl pictured is conveying a feeling of hopelessness/sadness. Now if the background was of a scene that seemed happy or festive then the hopelessness/sadness would turn to shyness. As for Daves photo of his Father the best way I think to read emotions is from the subject eyes. So the only way I could understand the emotion of the photo is by Dave's explanation. Otherwise it could be a photo of anything. A tired man, a drunk man or a man just checking to see if his shoes are tied.
Michael
No harm, no foul Remy and Nico - thank you for the comments :)
I agree though, without my background info it could be any sort of "weight" that the subject is being burdened by.
:)
Cheers
Dave
There was a long thread once about an HCB quote, about photographing a subjects "inner self" ....
For me the best photos are the ones in which the viewer sees the emotion that the photographer wants to show him (not necessarily what the subject feels - indeed it can be completely different, like in a good centerfold :) ).
Roland.
Anybody familiar with this emotion?
http://bp1.blogger.com/_U-t2tGr6I1A/RzWG7Z3JjOI/AAAAAAAAAPg/tEPw8qO91h0/s400/Image_Aug060133%5B1%5D.jpg
Todd.Hanz
03-05-2008, 08:20
To my comment above... emotionally it looks like hes suffering for a dodgy vindaloo (or fried chicken)
viewers emotional reaction versus subjects :eek:
vindaloo? I admit I had to look it up (spicy Indian food ;) )
I am sure the shooters reaction has alot to do with being there...the sounds, smells, etc. vs. the viewers reaction. In this case if the viewer is not familiar with the style of this music (Jazz, Blues, Reggae, etc.) the emotion may not be felt.
Todd
michaelbialecki
03-05-2008, 10:00
another one.......background included (sort of).....
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2414/2232243091_fa7506e29a_b.jpg
michael
JeffGreene
03-05-2008, 10:19
What emotion is this? :rolleyes:
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/jgreenepa/Emotion-1.jpg
I will be bold and show these.
http://www.angelfire.com/ne2/nenadbojic/Summarit/Web-Summarit-5.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/ne2/nenadbojic/Summarit/Web-Summarit-6.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/ne2/nenadbojic/Summarit/Web-Summarit-7.jpg
Chris101
03-05-2008, 12:53
Ned, your photos create an emotional state in me, the viewer, they do not show an emotion on their own. I like the way fog hides the distance - it makes a mystery. So these create emotion, but do not document it.
Here are a three from day2day life:
http://ferider.smugmug.com/photos/121611458_Feaex-L.jpg
http://ferider.smugmug.com/photos/216982889_bwTde-XL.jpg
http://ferider.smugmug.com/photos/121631924_zSqvS-O.jpg
Roland.
Ned, your photos create an emotional state in me, the viewer, they do not show an emotion on their own...
you mean the others do?
Chris101
03-05-2008, 13:48
you mean the others do?It's a personal thing of course, but I am old school in that I see emotion through the human face.
Can you photograph emotion?
Sure! What’s the big deal. Two by Erwitt. Two of millions. The really good ones from cats to dogs to horses to people to landscapes are THEE perfect combination of accident and readiness ... except the one of Chris, which must have required elaborate studio staging and intense facial preparation. ;•}
Bruce
This is an interesting thread.
I have no doubt it is possible to take a photograph to elicit an emotional response from the viewer. I am sure that almost every photograph ever taken achieves that, even if that emotion is ambivalence.
Similarly one can take a photograph of someone laughing, crying, kissing or whistfully staring into space with a trophy in their hands to illustrate an emotion.
However, to actually capture emotion in a photograph? Surely that would be like attempting to photograph music, or the taste of a good vindaloo.
It's a personal thing of course, but I am old school in that I see emotion through the human face.
Vieja escuela
;) ;) ;)
.....Looking from picture to picture and first commenting on the feeling the image gives us but then also thinking about "did this person capture the emotion....or did we just respond with emotion to what was captured?"
What do you think? Is there a specific photo or something that when you look at it you think "that is happiness" or "that is anger" or "this is joy". Is there any work out there that when you look at this you think the person has capture the quintessential essence of emotion?
.............
In my opinion this is a complex question with "YES" and "NO" answers.
First of all the emotional world of the human being is very personal and very much uncounscious in its dephts. Of course that some pictures may get a consensus about the emotion they transmit.
But incidentally, and perhaps due to a misunderstanding of the many English uses of the word "happyness", I don't think the photo of Winograd depicts real happyness, deep happyness. It depicts a funny moment, not happyness.
As for the "YES and NO", we very much photograph out of our own emotions. But once the picture is printed it can get many possible interpretations, according to the viewer. The viewer's emotions, which are not equal to ours.
We definitely capture emotions, but which ones - this is an open issue.
BTW, my menthor once told me about a friend of him that when asked what do you photograph, he uses to answer: "Noise".
Cheers,
Ruben
However, to actually capture emotion in a photograph? Surely that would be like attempting to photograph music, or the taste of a good vindaloo.
... which respectively enter the senses thru the ear and the mouth rather than the eye. Now that would be a challenge!
Human emotion:
http://www.pbase.com/marke/image/86003665/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/marke/image/83640159/original.jpg
How about a little canine emotion...
http://www.pbase.com/marke/image/92211240/original.jpg
Oh my gawd, it's big foot and he's emotionally pissed!!
... had to add that dog looks more like a large spider in the thumbnail ...
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/136/324714747_e6fe6fdbcc.jpg
Chris101
03-06-2008, 10:26
Alte Schule, which sounds to me kinda like alternate shoes.
Vieja escuela
;) ;) ;)
Now I'm wondering if it is possible to photograph a lack of emotion?
Oh my gawd, it's big foot and he's emotionally pissed!!
... had to add that dog looks more like a large spider in the thumbnail ...
LOL! Thanks, merlin. Thanks my goofy greyhound, "Zoomer", up to his antics again!
That's priceless!
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/136/324714747_e6fe6fdbcc.jpg
rogue_designer
03-06-2008, 17:17
It's a personal thing of course, but I am old school in that I see emotion through the human face.
I would argue, that viewing a human face showing an emotion - allows you to empathize/sympathize, and so creates an emotional state in the viewer.
It's a different method, but the same end. Both are a document. Both rely on the viewer to interpret.
You can test this with facial expressions recognition, often used in psychology and testing - someone who doesn't recognize an expression (a toothy smile as a threatening gesture, for instance) wouldn't necessarily say it's a happy photograph. The emotion wasn't captured. An image which must be interpreted by the viewer was.
edit:
Forgive me - it seems this was already stated, more eloquently within the first few posts of the thread.
In most cases (including current posts) we are shooting moments, visual reflection of emotion, but not deep of emotions. more difficult is capturing of internal world of people, emotions within peoples.
Some pictures about this point:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/data/500/thumbs/p_lb_toska_175_1_ton_fb.jpg (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=79929)
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/data/500/thumbs/TRT_busstop_547.jpg (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=80354&ppuser=9720)
everything, each point of viasual attention has to work for present emotions within.
Good set of pics, Mark!
Thanks, Ned.
BTW, A Summilux 50/f1.4 is on the way to my house. :D
Now I'm wondering if it is possible to photograph a lack of emotion?
That is some great good for thought. Not if you can take a lousy photo that doesn't show anything, but can you take an excellent photos that is devoid of feeling? Are we as humans capable of such null feelings?
... can you take an excellent photo that is devoid of feeling? Are we as humans capable of such null feelings?
I would say without hesitation, No, and No.
Even 'null' human feeling is feeling: a good photograph of an old, rusted tiller in an overgrown field forces the viewer, any viewer, to emote, to null it, so-so it or love it.
Then there is this much-more-extreme 1943 photo, which forces the gamut of emotion, reaction, feeling. It's easy to 'feel' the resignation of the doomed prisoner, sense the mix of dread and lust in the crowd, but what of the heartless man raising the sword? Do we write him off as null? Was he deviod of feeling? No, sadly, he was just a human being with different feelings.
The range of emotion in this picture makes me wonder – going back to the OP – maybe you can't photograph emotion. maybe all emotion rests strictly within the head of the picture taker and each individual beholder and not a drop in the physical image??? Am I making any sense?
Chris101
03-09-2008, 18:55
One of my portrait techniques is to ask my sitter to look directly at the lens, not smile or any show any other emotion. Then I wait for a longer than normal period before pressing the button. I believe this strips away any fake emotion for the camera and lets their inner feeling show. Or maybe they are just irritated waiting for me to shoot.
Todd.Hanz
03-09-2008, 19:04
soooooo...I guess it's a moot point, emotion lies in the head of the photog, though it looks like it's on the face of alot of pics here, whatever.
pesphoto
03-09-2008, 19:10
http://www.paulshelaskyphotography.com/Photos/PhotoOfWeek/PAW23a.jpg
Todd.Hanz
03-09-2008, 19:21
http://www.paulshelaskyphotography.com/Photos/PhotoOfWeek/PAW23a.jpg
a smiling dog? ;)
Todd
a smiling dog? ;)
Todd
Tricky that. :)
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