Should I?

[Nick De Marco]

I use digital a lot (Canon 5D - I'm very happy with it and have invested heavily in Canon L glass). But I also love the small size of M cameras, how they work and their lenses. Hence I have a few I regularly use with film. I have been tempted for ages to buy an M8 to 'bridge the gap'. I would still use my 5D for most ocassions and I hope I would still use the film cameras especially for B&W film. But it would be great to have an M8 and use my various Leica/Zeiss/Voigt lenses when I like and get quick result.

Is it a waste of money or should I make the sacrifice?

[Keith]

It's all been said before ... the M8 is an enigma. It can be the most frustrating overpriced pile of rubbish ever made one day ... and the camera of the gods the next!

Get it ... hate it ... love it! :p

[Nick De Marco]

Thanks for the answers so far guys. Anyone here able to compare it to a 5D? Or to a film M? Also, any examples of how it performs with high ISOs? I like night/low light photography and find the 5D performs very well at 1600. Here is an example: (click image to see original)

http://www.pbase.com/image/93525905.jpg (http://www.pbase.com/image/93525905)

Nick

Any M8 examples to share?

[Paul Kay]

I use 1DSs and 5D and L glass (24~135 fast aperture fixed focals) and also have an M8 and several M lenses. I have refrained from even attempting any comparative images and prefer to use the cameras in different ways/situations where either the dSLRs are more suited or the M8 is. If you already have M cameras you will no doubt appreciate the size/weight/ unobtrusiveness/etc. of the Ms and the M8 retains these attributes. I also have an M6 which I use (it too has B&W film in currently) but the M8 gets a vast amount more use and I find that the files it produces are very much to my liking and suit my workflow very well.

So I would personally say that if you have the money, buying an M8 will not be a waste of it and in my opinion it is certainly worth the sacrifice.

[Cranialstrain]

Hi Nick,

I completely emphatize with your quandry, I was ironically blogging about my similar situation last night (http://blog.ianbattersby.net). My personal recommendation would be to try and borrow one for a day (perhaps on their 'test drive' programme if still available) and see if it's going to meet your expectations. If this just isn't an option, take the recommendation above to purchase a second-hand one you can always sell on at little if any loss, although I suspect you'll keep it ;)

Best wishes, Ian.

[pizzahut88]

Well, now is a transistional period.
You should be aware that a full frame M is right around the corner.
So I am sure you will soon be able to get a good deal from those who trade up.

So is now a good time?
For a used one, yes, I think it is.
Buying new . . . I am not so sure anymore.

Had the M8 been full frame, and the M9 is being released this September,
I wouldn't care . . . I will still get the M8.
It's the sensor crop that matters.

[Nick De Marco]

Ben - where do you see used ones?

[shadowfox]

Thanks for the answers so far guys. Anyone here able to compare it to a 5D? Or to a film M? Also, any examples of how it performs with high ISOs? I like night/low light photography and find the 5D performs very well at 1600. Here is an example: (click image to see original)

Nick

Any M8 examples to share?


Sigh, I very rarely post in this sub-forum.

But *IF* I am thinking to get an M8, I won't be basing my decision on Image Quality. It is not fair, 5D sporting a Summilux-R 35/1.4 *will* kick M8's pants :) Bigger sensor, made by Canon. 'Nuff said.

But with M8 you will get an RF camera, different feel, different style, and potentially different results than your 5D can give you. Once you've accepted this, the decision is only a matter of whether you want to experience something different or not.

[digitalintrigue]

If you want a good price on an M8 talk to Tony at Popflash.

[Ben Z]

Ben - where do you see used ones?

Frequently on eBay, occasionally at keh.com. They had one in "EX" (from past experience, better than most eBay "Mint") a few weeks ago for IIRC $3795. The major Leica dealers like (shameless plug here for a great guy) Tony Rose / Popflash get them from time to time, as well as demos which cost more but come with a full year warranty from Leica. That, to me, is very important because there really aren't any independent repair shops that can work on the guts of the M8.

[DwF]

I agree that the M8 is better reigned in to ISO 1250 or less. However with the glass available and careful work, the M8 holds it's own in lowlight capability. Here is a shot from a dark corner of the livingroom taken handheld at a 1/4 second f2 ISO 160 with the Ultron 28. Add to that, the compact size unobtrusiveness of the camera as well the versatility of the prime lens in achieving shallow dof which is for me huge in staying with the rangefinder!

56498

David

[DwF]

PS Erik..... nice work there! and nothing like provoking the bird :)

[Tuolumne]

Frequently on eBay, occasionally at keh.com. They had one in "EX" (from past experience, better than most eBay "Mint") a few weeks ago for IIRC $3795. The major Leica dealers like (shameless plug here for a great guy) Tony Rose / Popflash get them from time to time, as well as demos which cost more but come with a full year warranty from Leica. That, to me, is very important because there really aren't any independent repair shops that can work on the guts of the M8.

Look at RFF sponsors - Popflash and PhotoVillage. PhotoVillage had a "user" M8 advertised for $3700 in the classifieds. Popflash always seems to have used M8s at around $4400. I can't believe those aren't getting snapped up.

/T
P.S. I'll keep my R-D1s happily for now. :)

[jaapv]

Even if FF is around the corner it will earliest be anounced on Fotokina and then it will probably be another 6 months until it would hit the streets. IF they announce it on Fotokina. In other words at least a year. Leica has already said that the M8 will be their main M out 2009 and If you can upgrade your M8 to FF I bet that will be at the same time they announce a M9 FF. You can sit on the fence or you can buy it and use it.
Guess at he price of a 36 mm M9 if it would appear at the Photokina (which it won't, imo, nor the next..) I predict 15.000$ plus.

[giellaleafapmu]

Is it a waste of money or should I make the sacrifice?

Answer 1.

If is it a sacrifice you should not!
If it is something you enjoy on the other hand...

Answer 2.
There are two ways of thinking.
Firts way:

If you can afford it why not?

Second way:

With the same money you can travel to anyplace or buy still-life table, backgrounds, light-meter, studio flashes...which one whould make you a better photographer (I know what would be true for me and I am sure you can guess what my answer would be!)?

GLF

[sooner]

I'm no Leica guy, so I'll probably get cursed saying this, but talking to Leica users and one pro photographer who recently reviewed the M8 (his dad lives on my street), I would say the M8 is not good value for the money. Can it produce great images? Sure, but so can a pinhole camera. I'm told it's just not that good, certainly compared to the Canon you already have, and it costs a fortune to boot. If you have the money and don't much care, then sure, go ahead. But in the quality versus cost sense, I would pass.

[macmx]

I don't understand all these lovely pictures from the M8 shot at high ISO. Above 320 is rubbish in my book.

Are these images all heavily noise reduced in post? The M8 is really bad in high ISO compared to my Canon 1DNs (which I sold to buy the M8).

If anyone can help me out, it will be much appreciated.

[cmogi10]

the M8 is a very capable low light camera...

http://carlmogerley.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p1007948788-4.jpg

http://carlmogerley.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p582791015-4.jpg

http://carlmogerley.zenfolio.com/img/v0/p527404478-4.jpg

http://carlmogerley.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p41298668-4.jpg

http://carlmogerley.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p368755116-4.jpg


http://carlmogerley.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p125580268-4.jpg

[macmx]

Erik - I agree, 640 is okay. I use it if it's that or nothing. I can't really tell the difference between 160 and 320 that much.

I shoot DNG with the camera meter and import directly into Aperture.

[JWW]

Nick,

I noticed that since I bought my m8 over a year ago that I take a lot more pictures and carry it around a lot more than I do my M3. Also I tend to appreciate how certain lenses such as the 75lux and 50preasph lux look like wide open since it's easy to get instant feedback. Don't forget that if you take thousands of pictures a year, the cost and time savings of processing/scanning can pay for the camera.

Jan

[Cindy Flood]

Sigh, I very rarely post in this sub-forum.

But *IF* I am thinking to get an M8, I won't be basing my decision on Image Quality. It is not fair, 5D sporting a Summilux-R 35/1.4 *will* kick M8's pants :) Bigger sensor, made by Canon. 'Nuff said.


I have to disagree with this statement. I had a 5D when I bought my M8. I did not have a 35 Summilux-R on it, but I had a 35 Summicron-R, 50 Summilux-R , 50 Summicron-R, 60 macro-R. I also had some of Canons best L lenses, including 85L f/1.2. I planned to keep the 5D, but after a few months I felt that it was such a waste that it was sitting there, rarely used. The 5D files are very good, but the M8 files are better (IMHO) and require less post processing.
'Nuff said....I've been there.

[chikne]

It's all been said before ... the M8 is an enigma. It can be the most frustrating overpriced pile of rubbish ever made one day ... and the camera of the gods the next!

Get it ... hate it ... love it! :p

Sounds similar to marmite =)

[Patman]

I love it! This photo was shot at about 12PM with a temperature of 6 degrees, with a wind chill of -30. While walking the dog I noticed how the light lit this scene, went in and got my camera, set it for iSO 640 and shot this handheld at 1/15 of a sec. No fogging of lens and a perfect image with barely any post processing. My Nikon D200, speaking from experience, would have fogged up almost immediatly and I doubt I would have been able to get a handheld like this,

[shadowfox]

I have to disagree with this statement. I had a 5D when I bought my M8. I did not have a 35 Summilux-R on it, but I had a 35 Summicron-R, 50 Summilux-R , 50 Summicron-R, 60 macro-R. I also had some of Canons best L lenses, including 85L f/1.2. I planned to keep the 5D, but after a few months I felt that it was such a waste that it was sitting there, rarely used. The 5D files are very good, but the M8 files are better (IMHO) and require less post processing.
'Nuff said....I've been there.

Cindy, with respect, the amount of post processing is heavily dependent on your workflow and your finished image style. Maybe yours are more suitable to files coming out of the M8, but many photographers that I came in contact with said the opposite.

Just curious, I find it hard to believe that M8 files requires less processing than Canon. Do you only shoot Black and White? If not, did you not have problems with black becoming purple? and lastly, what extra post-processing do you have to do on the files from the 5D?

[sunsworth]

Cindy, with respect, the amount of post processing is heavily dependent on your workflow and your finished image style. Maybe yours are more suitable to files coming out of the M8, but many photographers that I came in contact with said the opposite

My experience with both the 5D and M8 mirrors that of Cindy. I've hardly used the 5D since I bought the M8 just over a year ago.

As for workflow, I've not noticed any real difference between the two, other than that I need to sharpen the M8 files a lot less than I used to have to with the 5D.

Using the Photokit sharpeners I regularly back off the opacity of the sharpening layers to 60-70%. With the 5D I'd leave them at 100%.