View Full Version : This camera just gave me heart failure ... nearly!
I've just got home from my first official paid gig and my pulse rate has finally dropped back to normal! This exhibition opening had rules ... no flash and all photos to be taken very candidly in low lighting so my M8 really was my only choice with my 35mm Nokton. The money was way beyond my expectations for a couple of hours work and if I haven't blown it more of these type of events are in the offering from the organisers on a regular basis.
I had a 49mm IR filter blue tacked onto the Nokton, yes I know ... but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do ... a lot of folks there were in black so I'm glad I did!
Arrived there very psyched up and scouted the environment and checked the lighting etc. I was ready to go as people were starting to arrive and took the M8 with a new Sandisk Extreme 2gig card fitted from the bag and turned it on .... nothing!:eek: The light was on but the damned thing had frozen. I removed the battery refitted it and tried again ... everything lit up for a few seconds then it promptly froze again! :mad: At this stage my pulse rate was rising rapidly and I was getting a strange sensation in the pit of my stomach. Once again with fingers crossed I removed the battery, refitted it and tried again ... eureka! "Houston we have contact!"
It's all over now ... I took around 250 shots and the damned thing never missed a beat and hopefully the results will be what the organisers were expecting and they'll ask me back again. I'm not convinced I'll have the M8 with me though! :rolleyes:
srtiwari
02-26-2008, 03:46
There's Nothing that matches the cold, calculated reliability of fully mechanical film camera !
Well Keith, let us see some pics!
jack palmer
02-26-2008, 04:28
BECAUSE THE M8 IS THE BEST IF YOU WISH TO USE A DIGITAL RF SITEMISTIC. Get over it.
Show us some piccys Keith. :)
The best what? Mostly reliable, sometimes unreliable, send it back for repair, bring a back up ,digital rangefinder? Why do you tell owners with problems that could affect their income to " get over it".? It's rude and blowing them off. It's wonderful that your M8 is without fault. I used to work for Land Rover North America. When the Range Rover was introduced to the U.S. in 1987 you were as likely to see them on Rollbacks as you were driving down the streets. At the time a $40,000.00 car with the " go anywhere reputation. They had a horrible record of unreliability. Do you think their owners wanted to hear " get over it as they waited for a tow truck sitting in their leather seats? Again here was a luxury product with a reputation that that didn't live up to the reality. Maybe you should get over the fact that it isn't quite what people expected from a company like Leica.
Keith,
A couple of observations. Firstly, using a brand new card without having checked it before the gig (if that's what you did) isn't the best approach with any camera IMO. Secondly, I have had problems with Sandisk extreme III 2 GB and my M8 - one worked no problem, the other only after I formatted it on my RD1 and then reformatted in the M8 - who knows why. I've also had problems with other cameras and Sandisk cards although a quick reformat usually did the trick.
Regarding the gig - congratulations. Glad it all worked out in the end.
@Jack Palmer
Sometimes it pays to check people's posting history before diving in :rolleyes:
And it does sound like a greasy contact on the battery or even SD card - nothing to do with whatever brand of camera in general - it happens. Glad it worked out :)
Your M2 would never treat you so bad!
jack palmer
02-26-2008, 04:53
My apologies if Erick was just joking but..... I think we all know the same and similar comments have been post on this as well as other Leica forums and have been very serious, and i don't have time to look up a posters past history every time someone make a comment that I may take issue with. I didn't see the little smiley face so I assumed it was how he felt.
Previsualization avatar.
Now that really brought a smile to my face Ruben ... you're priceless! :)
Erik and Krosya ... I haven't even taken the M8 out of the bag let alone removed the SD card ... I'm bloody exhausted! Pros who do this daily have my utmost admiration!
In spite of the flakyness of the camera it's a brilliant tool for this type of gig and the instant someone else brings out a digital RF that has absolute certainty in it's function it will sell like hot cakes. I wouldn't have wanted to have been firing a large DSLR in this crowd ... it was a rarified atmoshere and the camera has a subtlety that makes it ideal. I also have a theory about this freezing problem ... the battery had been in the charger until a few minutes before I left home and would have been at peak voltage when I turned the camera on for the first time. When I think about it every time I have had this happen the circumstances have been the same ... it's been a freshly charged battery! Maybe it creates a minor surge in the cameras software that causes the crash. It is f***ing annoying though and if it persists I'll definitely have to consider an alternative. Without a backup camera, tonight had the potential to be very very emabarrasing! :p
[edit] ... I know my M2 or any film camera wouldn't have given me this grief but I wouldn't attempt this gig with film. Too much film involved and too much cost for processing. The only lab I trust charges $12.00 per roll ... then there's the scanning. :(
An analogy here: Why are the girls always attracted to the difficult bad boys who continuously let them down, and ignore the decent good ones ready to commit and dedicate their faithful service? :)
Ronald M
02-26-2008, 05:18
All pro`s need a backup camera. Now it is double the investment.
I was once visiting a wedding photog neighbor the night before a wedding. He was checking out all the equipment and back ups including putting a fluorescent card in the film gate of a 111f to check the flash sync.
what was the gig and why was important --- seems there were other photogs around --- tell more about the scenario
Keith, Congrats on the gig and the M8. I'd love to see some pics with that setup. But always take a backup to a paying gig, if only for peace of mind. I had a bad battery die in my D60 in the middle of a shoot and didn't have a backup. Luckily it was just for fun.
what was the gig and why was important --- seems there were other photogs around --- tell more about the scenario
Hi Memphis,
It was an official opening of an exhibition of various art forms at the gallery of QUT (Queensland University) for static and interactive displays along with electronics as well. No other photogs there aside from the odd camera phone and one very glamorous girl with a DSLR who had been made to know there was no flash allowed so she was looking a bit peeved and glanced enviously at my M8 a couple of times! :p
One thing that was really attention grabbing was three semi naked young dancers performing free form dance under spotlights on small platforms spread around the gallery! Amazing bodies and their movements were quite surreal at times! It was a pretty 'out there' event! It turned out to be a fairly small crowd strangely but the weather has been foul here today and not good for travelling.
yeah -- i was covering a big music fest, the rules were 1)you get to photograph during the first 3 songs 2) no flash
The digital photographers were miffed about the no flash thing - even though the stages are always lit up with stage lighting similar to daylight --- all the guys had the canon dslr with the monster 70-200 f2.8 white lens --- rangefinder was definitely an easier way to go ---- i don't see why digital guys get attitude about lack of flash -- bump the iso --- film guys are stuck with whatever we've got in the camera for at least 24-36 shots
cool --- glad you had fun. with the spotlights, nobody should have needed flash anyways
infocusf8@earthlink.
02-26-2008, 05:54
An analogy here: Why are the girls always attracted to the difficult bad boys who continuously let them down, and ignore the decent good ones ready to commit and dedicate their faithful service?
Because bad boys are far more interesting.:cool:
Hi Memphis,
One thing that was really attention grabbing was three semi naked young dancers performing free form dance under spotlights on small platforms spread around the gallery! Amazing bodies and their movements were quite surreal at times! It was a pretty 'out there' event! It turned out to be a fairly small crowd strangely but the weather has been foul here today and not good for travelling.
Well, now you REALLY HAVE TO post pics from this event! ;)
Keith:
Congratulations on your first commission. As a professional the only advise I can offer you is to always carry backup since you don't want to jeopardize your reputation and betray the client's trust by not bringing the required equipment.
I don't know your financial situation and, while multiple backups of the same body/lens will be optimal we all know the M8 can cost a nice chunk of change. A rented DSLR such as a Canon 20D or even a film camera would suffice as a proper backup.
If you are going to continue getting paid assignments, the first thing you should do is go out and acquire additional gear that you can use as future backup.
Please understand that I am only stating this since you did not mentioned you brought any backup and I am assuming you didn't. If I am mistaken, please disregard my post.
Hope this helps and best to you with future assignments.
Cheers,
Riccis
now, keith, we're mostly grownups here, so fork over the goodies and share... we'd do the same for you...
fdigital
02-26-2008, 06:40
Keith - an epson r-d1 makes a great backup. If they're reliable when you first buy them they are usually reliable for the next few years. Generally they aren't very buggy. Mine was bought 2nd hand and had a bit of usage - never had 1 single problem.
Otherwise, do yourself a favor and check out a d300. If you're antsy about spending money on it before you try it, you're welcome to borrow mine with my zeiss 50 planar for a day or two. It's possibly more of a workhorse for that sort of thing (although I still lust daily over the m8)
I'm glad it all worked out for you in the end though - Congrats on getting the job for QUT - it's an awesome uni.
How are you liking the 35mm nokton?
girl with a DSLR who had been made to know there was no flash allowed so she was looking a bit peeved and glanced enviously at my M8 a couple of times! :p
I don't quite follow that. I love my M8+lenses for their compact size, but for specifically shooting in low light w/out flash I would take my Canon 20D hands down. It's performance at ISO 1600 is about the same lack of noise as my M8 at ISO 640, and at ISO 3200 it is much less noisy than M8 above 640. I have in Canon EF lenses a 35 f/2, 50 f/1.8 and 85 f/1.8, plus with adaptors I can use fast Nikkor and Pentax lenses manually, so no need or desire for a huge zoom that's only f/2.8, and with my fast lenses the 20D viewfinder (which I use an Olympus magnifier on) is plenty bright enough for me to manual focus in fairly dim light if necessary. I also could find a 20D today as a backup for about $400, although mine (a refurb) has never even needed a reboot so far.
Glad everything worked out for you in the end. Let's see the photographs!
Keith, I repeat my advice: always use cards, which you have formatted before the event, I've had a similar story after shooting an event, with the difference, that all my shots have disappeared ( ! ) after I've taken the card out...
Gav ... thanks for the offer to try the D300 ... I may take you up on that at some stage. We could get together and you could run the M8 through it's paces for a change! And oh yes ... I love that Nokton ... big sucker though! :p
Luckily I had formatted the card long before the event and made sure it worked OK.
I think the girl with the DSLR had a slow zoom on her camera and was of the mindset that if she couldn't use flash there was no point in using the camera at all. :)
The whole back up camera thing will need some thought if I'm to be trusted by these people in this situation ... if the M8 had been terminal tonight I supect I wouldn't have been too popular. The Uni had quite a few dignitaries there. Brisbane's revered ex lord mayor Jim Soorley was there as well ... he is a well known patron of the arts and the pics I took of these bureaucratic supporters of the exhibition will be appearing in some form of Uni media no doubt.
The D300 backup idea is looking good as I'm a Nikon fan thanks to my D70 which has always been a great camera ... it's high ISO performance is a bit ordinary though and I only have a couple of slow zooms for it. Ideally the D300 with a short fast zoom would be a fine backstop ... I sense a sale coming on which could hurt because there is nothing in the cabinet that really deserves to get the axe! Incidenatally I did have my Hexar with me tonight with a roll of Neopan 400 in it ... I intended taking a few portrait shots for my own purposes but never got around to it! I will post pics of the dancers etc soon ... I promise. I'm just not looking forward to going through 250 DNG's tomorrow to decide what's worth while and what's not. :p
...but for specifically shooting in low light w/out flash I would take my Canon 20D hands down. It's performance at ISO 1600 is about the same lack of noise as my M8 at ISO 640, and at ISO 3200 it is much less noisy than M8 above 640.
Yes. And the D3 will give you very little noise at ISO 6400. In addition, the noise is mostly luminance noise which looks like film grain.
nikonhswebmaster
02-26-2008, 08:18
The whole back up camera thing will need some thought if I'm to be trusted by these people in this situation ... if the M8 had been terminal tonight I supect I wouldn't have been too popular. The Uni had quite a few dignitaries there. Brisbane's revered ex lord mayor Jim Soorley was there as well ... he is a well known patron of the arts and the pics I took of these bureaucratic supporters of the exhibition will be appearing in some form of Uni media no doubt.
For professional work you should always carry some kind of backup.
It does not have to be fancy, maybe something as simple as a high quality point-n-shoot like the Olympus 560 (under $500). You should pick a backup which is easy to use, since it is not a camera you should have to learn. Or in your case a film backup like an M4-P, which will work with your M8 lenses.
kalokeri
02-26-2008, 08:40
Good on you, Keith !
:)
I´m pretty sure the pictures will convince your clients.
As for the M8: **** happens as there is quite a good chance that any electronic and/or digital camera can freeze before or during a job. So a backup is always the savest way. Be happy the camera didn´t leave you in the lurch.
Best
Thomas
P.S. I´m looking forward to the pictures, too.
Tuolumne
02-26-2008, 08:55
I'm just not looking forward to going through 250 DNG's tomorrow to decide what's worth while and what's not. :p
Yet another reason to shoot film? :p
/T
I've just got home from my first official paid gig and my pulse rate has finally dropped back to normal! This exhibition opening had rules ... no flash and all photos to be taken very candidly in low lighting so my M8 really was my only choice with my 35mm Nokton. The money was way beyond my expectations for a couple of hours work and if I haven't blown it more of these type of events are in the offering from the organisers on a regular basis.
I had a 49mm IR filter blue tacked onto the Nokton, yes I know ... but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do ... a lot of folks there were in black so I'm glad I did!
Arrived there very psyched up and scouted the environment and checked the lighting etc. I was ready to go as people were starting to arrive and took the M8 with a new Sandisk Extreme 2gig card fitted from the bag and turned it on .... nothing!:eek: The light was on but the damned thing had frozen. I removed the battery refitted it and tried again ... everything lit up for a few seconds then it promptly froze again! :mad: At this stage my pulse rate was rising rapidly and I was getting a strange sensation in the pit of my stomach. Once again with fingers crossed I removed the battery, refitted it and tried again ... eureka! "Houston we have contact!"
It's all over now ... I took around 250 shots and the damned thing never missed a beat and hopefully the results will be what the organisers were expecting and they'll ask me back again. I'm not convinced I'll have the M8 with me though! :rolleyes:
I'm sure reliability will rise to the usual Leica standards with the newly announced full frame Leica M9. It is whispered that camera manufacture will revert from Portugal to Germany again. Unfortunately that will mean a rise in cost of production with a Leica-like reflection in price too.
Tuolumne
02-26-2008, 09:00
An analogy here: Why are the girls always attracted to the difficult bad boys who continuously let them down, and ignore the decent good ones ready to commit and dedicate their faithful service? :)
And vice versa...Why are the boys always attracted to the difficult bad girls who continuously let them down and ignore the decent good ones ready to commit and dedicate their faithful service? :)
/T ;)
I should have gone with a bad girl.... now I just drink
Tuolumne
02-26-2008, 09:13
Who cares? as Sean Penn once put it, I am just thankful that they are attracted to me. (60+, never married, VERY difficult, and many difficult girlfriends)
Well, since I've always been a good boy, I do care. Of course, since I'm married, I don't. :)
/T
Sorry to hear about your heart.....
If you wish to continue to be paid for your photography (and it sounds like you do), here is something that happened to a friend who shoots for profit.
When he went digital, he ultimately ended up buying bigger memory cards for extended events. He shot one event with a 4 Gb memory card. When he arrived home, he downloaded the pics to his computer.....OH Wait.... No he did not. The memory card was bad. After a monumental effort to recover the data using a variety of recovery softwares, he gave up. It was a disaster for him, and an event that could not be recaptured.
He now uses 1 GB memory cards and rotates them frequently during his shoots.
Another point of interest is that there is a huge problem arising with counterfeit memory cards in the marketplace (mostly internet). Cards that are defective, cards that are labeled at high speed but not (memory speed is a function of card prices just like computers).
I hope you never have another near heart failure, and suggest multiple memory cards of the highest quality if you pursue your career. That way, you never have to tell a client, "Well, I do tend to buy the least expensive equipment and I don't believe in backups..........."
Obviously, if you ponied up for a Leica M8, the least expensive comment would never issue from your lips, so I am just saying take care to use the best (not necessarily the most expensive) tools in your work.
Sears Craftsman tools are still guaranteed for life and tend to be quite sturdy. I wonder what a Leica visegrip would cost, and how long it would stand up in a professional mechanics toolbox?
Tuolumne
02-26-2008, 09:27
As astronauts say sitting on top of a roman candle about to be fired 100 miles into space at 17,000 MPH, "Just remember, this thing was built by the lowest bidder!"
/T
nikonhswebmaster
02-26-2008, 09:31
Sorry to hear about your heart.....
If you wish to continue to be paid for your photography (and it sounds like you do), here is something that happened to a friend who shoots for profit.
[...]
I hope you never have another near heart failure, and suggest multiple memory cards of the highest quality if you pursue your career. That way, you never have to tell a client, "Well, I do tend to buy the least expensive equipment and I don't believe in backups..........."
I am a huge fan of multiple memory cards, and multiple hard drives.
Large hard drives for instance should only be used for video capture. Just wait until you lose a Terabyte of files! Ditto with cards 2 gig maximum. And do not buy fast cards unless you need them, especially if your camera is a few years old. Someday you will say "fred was right."
NIKON KIU
02-26-2008, 10:12
Old saying:
((third time is the charm))
Next time, have a back up, M4P( or any other M) and a bunch of hi speed film would do the trick.
Better be prepared than embarrassed.
Kiu
Rd1 is very good buy to backup
you can use same lens to both bodies without needing buy separate lens to dslr.
rd1 iso1600 is quite good if not better than m8 :) Vf 1.0x is sweeet. I had Nikon D70 and I can say that rd-1 iso1600 is almost a stop better than d70 iso1600 though rd-1's sensor is same as old D100.
funny that my sandisk cards are very reliable and never crached after long time usage. When I bought A-data cards and the card reader couldn't read files properly from A-data so I had to switch to Linux from Windows to copy files. Yes it worked.
George S.
02-26-2008, 11:38
Old saying:
((third time is the charm))
Next time, have a back up, M4P( or any other M) and a bunch of hi speed film would do the trick.
Better be prepared than embarrassed.
Kiu
I don't think you'd read about it if it happened.
It would go way beyond embarrassed if one of the M8 users had to admit to us that they had to go to the film backup after forking over $5495 USD (plus tax) for the latest and greatest thing. I'm with sitemistic on this one.
I don't think you'd read about it if it happened.
It would go way beyond embarrassed if one of the M8 users had to admit to us that they had to go to the film backup after forking over $5495 USD (plus tax) for the latest and greatest thing. I'm with sitemistic on this one.
Man, its not fair! How do some of you get to have the ONLY Digitals that do not crap out!:confused: :confused:
In my past ten digital years, I have cursed at 5 CANON DSLRs, two NIKON DSLRs and a number of pro, semi-pro and non-pro digicams that have caused me grief, like Keith's. and I am not a pro either!
C/mon, spill the beans: how do you get the trouble-free bodies? Mine never seem to be p-e-r-f-e-c-t:bang:
infocusf8@earthlink.
02-26-2008, 12:45
Regarding back ups (and I know many of you will sneer at this) get an Olympus Stylus for under $100 and keep it in your bag with Provia 400 in it. Small, light weight, 35mm F2.8 aspheric lens (sharp, sharp) and a spot meter. Provia 400 is as fine grained 400 you'll ever shoot and with the F2.8 lens should allow you to shoot quietly in most lighting except near darkness.
Good girls are only good when they're bad.
nikonhswebmaster
02-26-2008, 13:36
Man, its not fair! How do some of you get to have the ONLY Digitals that do not crap out!:confused: :confused:
In my past ten digital years, I have cursed at 5 CANON DSLRs, two NIKON DSLRs and a number of pro, semi-pro and non-pro digicams that have caused me grief, like Keith's. and I am not a pro either!
C/mon, spill the beans: how do you get the trouble-free bodies? Mine never seem to be p-e-r-f-e-c-t:bang:
Some people break stuff, or have problems, some people don't. It is one of the mysteries of life.
I have had a couple of hard drive failures, and a couple of power supplies go, on my Macs, but I have never had an issue with my digital cameras (about 10?). Who knows why the broken fairy waves her wand on our equipment?
I have suffered with German and English cars -- so maybe I have done my penance with the gods of broken?
:::
:::::
:::::::
Rick Waldroup
02-26-2008, 13:53
I shoot a lot of event photography, and like others have pointed out, you need to bring backups for everything.
I shoot events using DSLR's and bring two bodies, 5 lenses, 2 on camera flashes, etc. 99% of the time, I have only needed one body, one lens, and one flash. However, two years ago, I had a Nikon D2H and an SB800 flash die at the same time, and this was an awards banquet where I would be shooting about two hundred people. I also carry small walkie-talkies. I had an assistant working with me that night and I called her and told her what to bring from the camera case.
Shooting events like this is very much like shooting weddings- in the end, no one wll care about why your equipment went down- they are only concerned about getting pictures.
I would really test that camera out the next few days and see if it gives you any more problems like you experienced before.
photogdave
02-26-2008, 14:13
For professional work you should always carry some kind of backup.
It does not have to be fancy, maybe something as simple as a high quality point-n-shoot like the Olympus 560 (under $500). You should pick a backup which is easy to use, since it is not a camera you should have to learn. Or in your case a film backup like an M4-P, which will work with your M8 lenses.
If you're going to go with a digicam for a backup DON'T use Olympus until they finally move out of that horrible XD card system - like Fuji did.
I work at a place that does data recovery and the number one source of problem memory cards - you guessed it - XD!
Man, its not fair! How do some of you get to have the ONLY Digitals that do not crap out!:confused: :confused:
In my past ten digital years, I have cursed at 5 CANON DSLRs, two NIKON DSLRs and a number of pro, semi-pro and non-pro digicams that have caused me grief, like Keith's. and I am not a pro either!
C/mon, spill the beans: how do you get the trouble-free bodies? Mine never seem to be p-e-r-f-e-c-t:bang:
My advice to selection is wait 6 months to one year before buying hi-tech... and particularly with digital cameras. Then read the post reviews and visit the forums.
Yes, I know the models come faster than that. I'm just talking about avoiding the lumps of buying "cutting edge". Newest technology DOES NOT mean best technology. The guys who fork over the R&D payback to the designers and manufacturers are also the ones who put themselves up for Beta Testing. Manufacturers used to actually DO beta testing. That's been passed on to the unsuspecting "cutting edge" buyer.
LeicaTom
02-26-2008, 14:20
I still can`t figure out why anyone would want to spend $5,000 on a camera that has such a bad reputaion for reliability? I don`t get it......
($5k would put a nice M6 kit together with pocket change enough left over for a really good dinner for two somewhere)
And two M6`s around your neck would have gotten the job done just as well and at film being under $6 a roll for development and digital transfer, just seems to be a better reason to keep working with the reliability of film
Maybe in 5 years ALL the bugs will be ironed out of the Leica digital M and it will be a camera worth buying (that`s if Leica`s still around in 5 years?)
Buying any camera in it`s "first generation" is normally a mistake, while many first generation cameras are prone to having problems and digital has opened a Pandora`s Box of new problems that real film cameras don`t have
The M8 was a hastily devised camera to bring Leica`s obsolete technology up to date in the digital world - it`s either going to be the stepping stone for a better camera (which will cost too much money to make a difference to the average photographer anyway) or be the end of Leica and the company - I personally think the M8 will become an orphan much like the M5 is and will be loved just by a group of people who can afford to play with them, the days of the real Leica Photographer and artist were over with the days of the M6 - JMO
Tom
George S.
02-26-2008, 14:31
Man, its not fair! How do some of you get to have the ONLY Digitals that do not crap out!:confused: :confused:
:bang:
Simple. For all my SLRs, both digital and film I only rely on Olympus. This has worked for me since 1970-something.
endustry
02-26-2008, 14:44
My M8 crapped out the other night while shooting in Times Square. It turns out that the battery simply got zapped super fast due to the cold. Nonetheless, that will be the last time I go out with only one battery no matter how full the one I am using supposedly is.
I reckon if I were a pro I would always carry a back up. (I am not but love gear so do carry an extra on most occasions anyway - just for different reasons.) When I married (last time that is) it was pretty informal and I arranged for someone to take shots using my Nikon 801s - before I had digital. The thing stopped after what seemed like a half a dozen shots and I assumed that it had frozen - it can do this i humid conditions if the electronics short. I could not get it working again but I had another body as back up so I dragged that out and he kept shooting. Everything worked fine. As it happens it turns out that I had just forgotten to change to film in the Nikon and it was at the end of the reel. I was so nervous that I forgot to check if the film had all been used. Stange things happen when you are under pressure.
Michael P.
02-26-2008, 14:57
My M8 crapped out the other night while shooting in Times Square. It turns out that the battery simply got zapped super fast due to the cold. Nonetheless, that will be the last time I go out with only one battery no matter how full the one I am using supposedly is.
Whatever happened to cold weather battery extensions in cameras like the Pentax 6x7 and LX? Batteries fit into a case inside your pocket to keep them warm, connected to the camera battery compartment by a long cord.
nikonhswebmaster
02-26-2008, 15:04
If you're going to go with a digicam for a backup DON'T use Olympus until they finally move out of that horrible XD card system - like Fuji did.
I work at a place that does data recovery and the number one source of problem memory cards - you guessed it - XD!
I never have problem with any of this stuff I hear about on here. I can only imagine what people do with memory cards.
Anyway, I have never had any issues, Toshiba and Samsung make good cards as far as I am concerned.
But I never end being amazed at what people can corrupt... computer-wise.
Simple. For all my SLRs, both digital and film I only rely on Olympus. This has worked for me since 1970-something.
Oh come on... "photogdave" says our Olympus cameras have crap memory cards in them.
I find if I just tap them a few times on a table, the photos all fall out.
:::
:::::
:::::::
Michael P.
02-26-2008, 15:07
I used to work as an assistant to an LA wedding photog who carried a beat up, old Rollei TLR as backup for his Hasselblads. I don't know that he ever had to use it, but it was always there.
Gabriel M.A.
02-26-2008, 15:16
I never have problem with any of this stuff I hear about on here. I can only imagine what people do with memory cards.
The saying "cleanliness is next to godliness" is so true.
I've seen so many men go into a bathroom, only to go straight out the door without washing their hands (or running some water --without using soap-- on their hands for not even a few seconds).
I remember a time when I lent some memory cards, and I got them back with a film of godknowswhat all over it. The contacts had to be cleaned.
I still can`t figure out why anyone would want to spend $5,000 on a camera that has such a bad reputaion for reliability? I don`t get it......
Tom
Maybe because reputations on internet forums have but a very slight connection to reality?
Gabriel M.A.
02-26-2008, 15:29
Maybe because reputations on internet forums have but a very slight connection to reality?
You mean to say that anything that isn't printed isn't automatically true?!
So, those e-mails about important glorious money transactions from the Lottery in Nigeria...oh no. But they were written by somebody on the Internet, so they had to be true! :angel:
RObert Budding
02-26-2008, 15:36
A backup is mandatory for anyone doing paid work.
I still can`t figure out why anyone would want to spend $5,000 on a camera that has such a bad reputaion for reliability? I don`t get it......
($5k would put a nice M6 kit together with pocket change enough left over for a really good dinner for two somewhere)
And two M6`s around your neck would have gotten the job done just as well and at film being under $6 a roll for development and digital transfer, just seems to be a better reason to keep working with the reliability of film
Maybe in 5 years ALL the bugs will be ironed out of the Leica digital M and it will be a camera worth buying (that`s if Leica`s still around in 5 years?)
Buying any camera in it`s "first generation" is normally a mistake, while many first generation cameras are prone to having problems and digital has opened a Pandora`s Box of new problems that real film cameras don`t have
The M8 was a hastily devised camera to bring Leica`s obsolete technology up to date in the digital world - it`s either going to be the stepping stone for a better camera (which will cost too much money to make a difference to the average photographer anyway) or be the end of Leica and the company - I personally think the M8 will become an orphan much like the M5 is and will be loved just by a group of people who can afford to play with them, the days of the real Leica Photographer and artist were over with the days of the M6 - JMO
Tom
You're thinking is pure 'stateside' with your pricing here ... look at my avatar and see where I live Tom. I checked out Brisbane's two or three pro labs a while ago and developing and scanning to a file size that's acceptable is damned expensive ($10.00 to $20.00 per roll for developing and scanning) and the shots I took last night would represent close to twenty percent or more of what I'm being paid for the job. I would happily use a film camera as backup but not as the money earner over the long term. IF ... and it's a big IF I realise ... the M8 behaves itself' it's the perfect tool for the type of money earning photographic asignments I will strive to do on a regular basis. An opportunity to be paid for photographing these type of events strictly in available light is unique and the requirements of the results they expect are a lot different from the norm. If I got in a jam sure, I would happily use a film camera ... but not by choice! :)
LeicaTom
02-26-2008, 16:25
You're thinking is pure 'stateside' with your pricing here ... look at my avatar and see where I live Tom. I checked out Brisbane's two or three pro labs a while ago and developing and scanning to a file size that's acceptable is damned expensive ($10.00 to $20.00 per roll for developing and scanning) :)
Hmmm sorry about the American prices and not noticing where you are from
- I can understand the priceiness of overseas developing services :(
So many people I know overseas develop everything at home, still a great way to save money, that`s if you have space and time for darkroom work, not everyone has time for that either, when jobs are really demanding
I suppose if I was making $5k + a week here I would consider a R Leica with a digiback and some lenses, while the M8 still has`nt proven itself as well as the R digital back has, sure it`s a SLR but I think at making that kind of money, working only with a RF/M Leica would be the LAST thing on my mind - I spilt up my Retro work now with my LTM`s a M6 and a Canon F-1 it still lays on the fact that my clients still value film, eventhough digital would be faster - I still prefer film for all the vintage looks and thankfully I can still afford the development and not have it cut too drasticly into my profits, because I know how it feels when this is what you do for a living to make your next paycheck.......
Tom
photogdave
02-26-2008, 16:34
I never have problem with any of this stuff I hear about on here. I can only imagine what people do with memory cards.
Anyway, I have never had any issues, Toshiba and Samsung make good cards as far as I am concerned.
But I never end being amazed at what people can corrupt... computer-wise.
Oh come on... "photogdave" says our Olympus cameras have crap memory cards in them.
I find if I just tap them a few times on a table, the photos all fall out.
:::
:::::
:::::::
Just trying to be helpful by passing on some of my personal experiences. If Fuji, who co-developed the XD format with Olympus, are moving away from it then that says something.
Simple. For all my SLRs, both digital and film I only rely on Olympus. This has worked for me since 1970-something.
In 65 years of photography the only two cameras I've ever had crap out on me were Olympuses.
I've had failures using Nikons (F3, D2H) & Leicas (R8) in the middle of jobs...the F3 shutter failed, but I had no idea until I got the film back. R8 was electronics, D2H as well. The cameras were fine one second, and then - wham! No rhyme or reason. On bigger jobs, I'm toting 3-4 bodies around...and more strobes. Stuff just happens sometimes.
Any camera can fail...I guess some of us have worse luck than others in this department.
jan normandale
02-26-2008, 19:09
I've just got home from my first official paid gig and my pulse rate has finally dropped back to normal! This exhibition opening had rules ... no flash and all photos to be taken very candidly in low lighting so my M8 really was my only choice with my 35mm Nokton. The money was way beyond my expectations for a couple of hours work and if I haven't blown it more of these type of events are in the offering from the organisers on a regular basis.
I had a 49mm IR filter blue tacked onto the Nokton, yes I know ... but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do ... a lot of folks there were in black so I'm glad I did!
Arrived there very psyched up and scouted the environment and checked the lighting etc. I was ready to go as people were starting to arrive and took the M8 with a new Sandisk Extreme 2gig card fitted from the bag and turned it on .... nothing!:eek: The light was on but the damned thing had frozen. I removed the battery refitted it and tried again ... everything lit up for a few seconds then it promptly froze again! :mad: At this stage my pulse rate was rising rapidly and I was getting a strange sensation in the pit of my stomach. Once again with fingers crossed I removed the battery, refitted it and tried again ... eureka! "Houston we have contact!"
It's all over now ... I took around 250 shots and the damned thing never missed a beat and hopefully the results will be what the organisers were expecting and they'll ask me back again. I'm not convinced I'll have the M8 with me though! :rolleyes:
Keith , I like the new avatar.
nikonhswebmaster
02-26-2008, 19:24
In 65 years of photography the only two cameras I've ever had crap out on me were Olympuses.
Which ones?
Every company of course has made (or at least sold) some miserable cameras. Nikon had cameras made for them by Ricoh and Mamiya that were so terrible they don't even list some of them in their official history (the Nikkorex 35 etc) and recently Cosina almost matched the Nikkorex quality with their poor Nikon offerings.
Olympus has been making fixed lens cameras since 1948 so they have put out a lot of consumer cameras. But I have never heard much about their pro line cameras crapping out, sadly the M and OM did not last longer. Their Pen F was genius.
My brother and I have had nothing but good luck with them. When he had Nikons and Canons die in the cold and wet of northern Canada, the Olympus cameras kept working.
nikonhswebmaster
02-26-2008, 19:34
Just trying to be helpful by passing on some of my personal experiences. If Fuji, who co-developed the XD format with Olympus, are moving away from it then that says something.
No refection on you, but the remark just seemed too anecdotal to me.
I too make generalizations based on my experiences, and would say I have had so many of my friends do dumb things with technology I never know what to actually make of anyone's failures.
But your statement the majority of failures were from Olympus cameras, made me wonder if it was the card readers not the cards? There are so many crappy card readers out there these days, that lose power and just kill the FAT. I have reformatted so many friend's cards -- and then recovered every file I have to believe there are a lot of bad readers.
There was a funny thread here recently with a "failed camera," with the batteries in backwards, finally corrected later down in the thread.
The high-end Olympus all take Flash Memory, which I am sorry to see falling into disfavor, in favor of SD.
:::
:::::
:::::::
BillBingham2
02-26-2008, 19:36
Keith,
I agree with some of the folks above and think a backup camera for your next gig. Flying with a single engine across the Atlantic is a gutsy move. Here is my two cents (worth all you paid for it)…..
Have a look at a GR-D II. It’s small and can shoot with reasonably good quality in B&W at high ISOs. It has an f2.8 lens that is not bad and the cost is reasonable. She takes AAA batteries and takes SD cards. I love my GR-D and it’s my backup camera to my future DSLR.
The larger alternative is to look at a D300 and keep the flash off. Go out and get a 35/1.4 Nikkor manual focus old version, metal focusing ring, same 52mm filter thread as your current 35/1.2. Get it updated for Matrix metering and AI at www.aiconversions.com. John is a great guy to deal with. Get your self a Katz Eye focusing screen and forget autofocus. Last thing you need is an UpStrap to keep the camera on your shoulder, not on the ground. You now have a great camera that can use your zooms on the weekends and work for you along side of our M8.
Now if you want to really take a bold step, get a 58/1.4 CV SL II and a 180/2.8 auto focus (ED-IF). Keep the 58mm on the D300 and shoot most of the event with the M8. But there are some times you want to reach out quickly. The D300 would be a wonderful camera to save the investment in your lenses and take the next step when you go out to fly the Atlantic again, get a second engine or at least a parachute!
B2 (;->
In 65 years of photography the only two cameras I've ever had crap out on me were Olympuses.
Oh please.
Gray Fox
02-26-2008, 19:42
Tagging on to the idea of buying digital at the end of a tested product cycle would be to pick up one of the now nicely priced Nikon D200s. Same image size as the M8, and lots of great fast primes, manual or auto focus available for it. Have a Katz eye screen installed and get the fast lens of your choice and you can have an entire kit for what the D300 body will cost---and it's at the very start of its product and debugging cycle. Just a thought, because I hope you are very successful at this new type of cash earning photo experience--the inverse relationship for most of us here when it comes to photo gear.
BillBingham2
02-26-2008, 20:08
Sell the D70 to fund the D300. The D300 is a quantum leap from the 200 in high ISO, speed of focus and has a 100% view in the finder, better seals, etc. It’s fun to get paid for this sort of gig. Not a lot of time to worry which is the best, you shoot, you get your cash and move on.
My father lost the love he had for photography because he did it as a job and some of the folks he worked for beat it out of him. Hell carrying four bodies around for twenty years would ware anyone out. Some people are lucky enough to support their families with photography for years and still love it.
I remember getting paid to shoot parties and all when I was in Jr. High, it was a gas. It’s a great way to pay for GAS!
B2 (;->
Keith:
Congratulations on your first commission. As a professional the only advise I can offer you is to always carry backup since you don't want to jeopardize your reputation and betray the client's trust by not bringing the required equipment.
I'm not a professional, and nothing beats a backup plan, equipment and all. I remember bringing 2 bodies on a shoot and 1 more left lying around in the car or somewhere within reach but not lugging it around.
George S.
02-27-2008, 05:14
In 65 years of photography the only two cameras I've ever had crap out on me were Olympuses.
Interesting. I'd have a question or two. Did you ever use any other brand and if so, for how long. If all you ever used for 65 years was Olympus (or any other brand for that matter) then you'd probably have to have a failure of that brand.
It'd be like walking into a pro camera repair shop in the mid to late 60s and seeing nothing but Nikons being worked on. That fact didn't mean Nikons were the brand breaking most often; it meant that 90% of pros were using Nikons.
And what model Olympus failed? There are some consumer grade models that didn't hold up all that well. They never were supposed to, being mostly plastic and having cut-rate shutters, etc.
I think I love this camera ... and the 35mm Nokton!
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/wheelie52/QUT/L1001508.jpg
Interesting. I'd have a question or two. Did you ever use any other brand and if so, for how long. If all you ever used for 65 years was Olympus (or any other brand for that matter) then you'd probably have to have a failure of that brand.
It'd be like walking into a pro camera repair shop in the mid to late 60s and seeing nothing but Nikons being worked on. That fact didn't mean Nikons were the brand breaking most often; it meant that 90% of pros were using Nikons.
And what model Olympus failed? There are some consumer grade models that didn't hold up all that well. They never were supposed to, being mostly plastic and having cut-rate shutters, etc.
I've owned and used everything from a Linhof 8 x 10 and Speed Graphic 4 x 5 to a Nikon D3 -- Canons, a Rollei, several Leicas, two of them Ms, etc. etc. etc. The two Olympus cameras that failed for me were (1) The Coolpix 5050. In fact, I had two of those fail in rapid succession. The second one within hours after I walked away from the camera shop with it. (2) The E-20. I really liked that camera, but it just wouldn't do the job. Its worst failure was the sensor, which kept popping up hot pixels and dead pixels. The re-mapping feature couldn't really solve the problem. It was back at Olympus more than it was with me. I finally gave up on it.
I've never had a Nikon fail, by the way. I've had a bunch of them and I've beaten on them pretty hard. Last year I was shooting in Victor, Colorado, and not watching where I was going. I tumbled down a couple of steps in the sidewalk and my D2X hit the pavement hard enough to total the lens that was on it, but after two days of intensive testing I had to conclude that the body was fine. I was just sure the lens mount must be warped after the fall, but it wasn't.
nikonhswebmaster
02-27-2008, 06:28
The two Olympus cameras that failed for me were (1) The Coolpix 5050. In fact, I had two of those fail in rapid succession. The second one within hours after I walked away from the camera shop with it. (2) The E-20. I really liked that camera, but it just wouldn't do the job. Its worst failure was the sensor, which kept popping up hot pixels and dead pixels. The re-mapping feature couldn't really solve the problem. It was back at Olympus more than it was with me. I finally gave up on it.
I assume you mean the Olympus C-5050, "Coolpix is a trademark of Nikon?
An E-20 with a dead sensor is I imagine pretty unusual, I have owned many starting with the fixed lens Olympus E-10 which I used to shoot all the 9/11 photos on my web site. I currently shoot with Lumix L1s which are actually an Olympus 330s inside.
As noted earlier, some folks just have problems with cameras, some don't. I just never do, lucky I guess, or not all that picky?
One thing for sure, you are no amateur -- beautiful photos on your site.
Is that really a Kodak Pony around your neck in Korea... my first camera, and i still have it, still works like a charm.
My favorite: http://www.rslstudio.com/westernbw/pages/highway.htm
:::
:::::
:::::::
I think I love this camera ... and the 35mm Nokton!
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/wheelie52/QUT/L1001508.jpg
NIce, but how about moreeeeeeeeee pics ;)
One of the performance dancers ... did I mention they weren't all girls! :p
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/wheelie52/QUT/L1001381.jpg
fdigital
02-27-2008, 08:01
Well thats just no fun at all!
Well thats just no fun at all!
On the contrary, finally something for me to enjoy!
Though I do say that a DSLR with a long lens would have put the focus where it belongs, on that nice young man there in the lights. :)
I assume you mean the Olympus C-5050, "Coolpix is a trademark of Nikon?
An E-20 with a dead sensor is I imagine pretty unusual, I have owned many starting with the fixed lens Olympus E-10 which I used to shoot all the 9/11 photos on my web site. I currently shoot with Lumix L1s which are actually an Olympus 330s inside.
As noted earlier, some folks just have problems with cameras, some don't. I just never do, lucky I guess, or not all that picky?
One thing for sure, you are no amateur -- beautiful photos on your site.
Is that really a Kodak Pony around your neck in Korea... my first camera, and i still have it, still works like a charm.
My favorite: http://www.rslstudio.com/westernbw/pages/highway.htm
:::
:::::
:::::::
Yes. Sorry. I meant the C-5050. I guess I've become too Nikon-oriented. I forgot to mention that I still have a C-3040 around somewhere that gave me good service. I could toss it in a bag and always have it available for a backup. I even did some street work with it, though the shutter lag was a problem. I also still have a film Olympus (don't remember the model, and it's not down here in Florida with me for the winter) that gave me years of service. Fixed 40mm lens and one of the earliest on-camera meters. I did a lot of street shooting with it in the seventies.
The problem with the E-20 still bugs me. I really liked that camera.
Yeah. That's a Kodak Pony. I was flying F-84s in Korea when the war ended. After it was over a bunch of us would grab a six-by once in a while and go over to the coast for a swim. I was shooting with the Pony, a Voigtlander (don't remember the model), and a Rollei. The Pony was a good knock-around camera so that's what I always took to the coast.
Thanks for the kudos. You can see the story of that highway at http://www.pkinfo.com/Voices/Afterword.htm
Best regards,
Ascender
03-02-2008, 22:01
The best what? Mostly reliable, sometimes unreliable, send it back for repair, bring a back up ,digital rangefinder? Why do you tell owners with problems that could affect their income to " get over it".? It's rude and blowing them off. It's wonderful that your M8 is without fault. I used to work for Land Rover North America. When the Range Rover was introduced to the U.S. in 1987 you were as likely to see them on Rollbacks as you were driving down the streets. At the time a $40,000.00 car with the " go anywhere reputation. They had a horrible record of unreliability. Do you think their owners wanted to hear " get over it as they waited for a tow truck sitting in their leather seats? Again here was a luxury product with a reputation that that didn't live up to the reality. Maybe you should get over the fact that it isn't quite what people expected from a company like Leica.
I love the camera but I also have the luxury of not having it be my only camera. All these 'the M8 can do no wrong in my eyes' fanatics make me want to pewk. "Get over it", please...... try telling that to someone who's saved his or her whole life for a ridiculously priced camera wrought with inconsistency. Have some damn respect.
-charlie
So Keith, are there any more pics from this event? (with some girls in them? ;) )
So Keith, are there any more pics from this event? (with some girls in them? ;) )
Hey ... don't ask me what was going on here. Looked like fun though! :p
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/wheelie52/RFF%20Storage/Sandwich.jpg
Or here for that matter ... maybe looking for tinea? :p
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/wheelie52/RFF%20Storage/Feet.jpg
fdigital
03-03-2008, 00:28
I think the guy at the back stepped on her foot, so he's running for his life while the other guy (her boyfriend) is inspecting the damage. Interesting to see that QUT is running apple Imacs these days (its about time)
Hey ... don't ask me what was going on here. Looked like fun though! :p
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/wheelie52/RFF%20Storage/Sandwich.jpg
Ok, I will not ask.......;)
So, Keith did you resolve the problem with your M8? Dirty battery/card contacts? or something deeper?
Yeah well ... I had to go back to the Uni gallery today to take some more shots of the exhibits without the people milling around this time.
And yes the crazy thing froze again ... battery out battery back in and all was well for the next 150 pics. What do I do ... do I give the camera back to the dealer I got it off and say "it's piss*ng me off fix the damned thing!"
It's only done it a couple of times in about three thousand shots and I read somewhere that someone else had a camera that did the same thing intitially then never did it again so I am loathe to part with it at the moment. There is definitely going to be something else entering my life soon though in the form of a second hand 5D or a new D300 DSLR. That's going to be a finacial stretch in fact I'm going to have to part with other gear to achieve it.
I love the M8 and what it can do but it is causing me some frustration at the moment I must admit! :(
Cranialstrain
03-04-2008, 00:58
And yes the crazy thing froze again ... battery out battery back in and all was well for the next 150 pics. What do I do ... do I give the camera back to the dealer I got it off and say "it's piss*ng me off fix the damned thing!"
There is obviously something amiss, give the dealer a call and seek their advice; I suspect they might send you out another battery to try, or failing that explore other options. At the end of the day I'm sure Leica will get it resolved, but don't hang around thinking about it, just get it fixed/replaced.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.