B&W or color for the streets?

[Jamie Pillers]

If you were about to step out the door and go for a walk with your RF around the inner city, would you load B&W or color film? Why?

My thoughts are confused at present. I understand that the choice for some might be affected by the subject matter of interest, lens of choice, etc.. I, on the other hand, seem to turn this thinking around (possible backward).

I find myself thinking of the anticipated subject matter (the passing scene, people & animals encountered, street graphics (signage, graffitti, billboards, etc.), etc. differently if I know I have B&W film vs. color. When using B&W, I think I may be weighting my approach to the subject with a "big philosophical issues" leaning. With color, I may be seeing the subject more in a more... mmm... easy going day-to-day life way. In other words I can easily justify in my mind using B&W or color for the same subject matter, but possibly with a subtle, or maybe not so subtle, change in what I think the resulting pictures mean.

I'd like to be a bit more clear in my thinking about this matter and so I thought the wise folk at RFF might be able to help by explaining your approach.

[btgc]

While enjoying B&W street captures, I have caught myself that there are color pics which also make me to return. Here's one from my flickr contacts (http://flickr.com/photos/cinemafia/sets/72157600221263895/), just take a look. I think - color captures should be about color.

[Leighgion]

Objectively, I don't think street photography should be any different than any other general category far as the choice of color vs B&W goes. As said, it depends on the subject matter. Obviously, a lot of graffiti will play much better in color than B&W.

Practically though, even though I'm not really a big time street shooter and a fairly recent serious dabbler in B&W, I think I lean a little towards B&W. The best answer I can think of offhand for why is Cartier-Bresson's feeling that photography was "instant drawing" to him. A fast sketch is rough, but that's part of its unique appeal. B&W street photos are kind of like a sketch to me; a representation of certain essentials while skipping distracting details.

That said, here's two street-type shots of mine, one color and one B&W. These were shot digital and the B&W one converted from color. I feel both are best served by being color and B&W respectively.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2336/1816980937_94e691c1e7.jpg?v=0

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2270/2217373459_4a08ec2c53.jpg?v=0

[kipkeston]

There has to be a hierarchy of color in a color photo. The street is random enough as it is in black and white.

[BillP]

I usually shoot b&w if I am going out for a wander around the streets. I think differently whether I shoot b&w or colour. I like Leighgion's point about sketching - b&w does feel a bit like that, to me. What I can't do is shoot a roll of colour "pretending" that it is b&w, knowing that I can desaturate it later if I wish. I just end up with colour photos. The converse is true - if I forget that I have loaded colour, and go out thinking I am shooting b&w, I HAVE to desaturate to "get at the image". Breaking this down, I think I shoot b&w more with form and contrast in mind, while colour is all about, well, colour.

Conclusion - I agree with kipkeston - b&w "purifies" the street, and reduces it to its' essential elements, in the same way that snow reduces a landscape to a monochrome rendering of curves and shapes.

Regards,

Bill

[Larky]

I shoot B&W for the simple reason that I can dev it at home. I don't have a huge amount of money to get films developed.

I do want to start colour, and have a large stock of it, but when I shoot it I know I wont see the neg for a long time.

[kshapero]

Mostly B&W for me.

[mfunnell]

Bill,

I agree with you about everything in theory - but find that I've acted otherwise in practice.

For quite a while, with my M3, I've wanted to shoot B&W but found that I haven't achieved what I wanted with chromogenic B&W film (XP2 or BW400CN) because, at ISO400, they were just too fast. So I've been shooting Kodak Gold 100 or 200 as B&W film because they convert so nicely in Photoshop (whereas I've found myself unable - so far - to get a "good enough" B&W print from digital, even for shots that work well on screen as B&W - my limitation, not the format).

This doesn't bother me as long as I don't "remember" that I'm actually using colour film. The moment I do, and take a deliberately colour photo, I "lose" seeing in B&W for the rest of the roll. OK, so I never said I was sane.

This may change now that (1) I've started developing my own B&W film and (2) have an appropriate set of ND filters.

But even so, I'm still mostly convinced of the virtues of Kodak Gold shot deliberately as B&W.

...Mike

[Samsam]

i use b&w film more than colour, but color is great when the sky is sunny. ( love kodak portra 160 )
here are few examples
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2208/2265866260_cbb97ae452.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2008/2197816105_41bcc753c1.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2269/2264924529_480833efe8.jpg
http://tractica.free.fr/Img253.jpg

[Hates_]

Colour for me. Every time I even think of trying B&W I only have a look at a Meyerowitz or Mermelstein photo to realise it's a silly idea. B&W feels incomplete to me.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2275/2269616881_da15498abb.jpg?v=1203212708

[petronius]

Mainly I agree with Hates_:
But there were times, and I´m sure there will be, when I don´t need color. Whatever my head/heart wants to have: I´m shooting only for my pleasure!

[Samsam]

Amazing shot, Hates_ . And i agree with you about Meyerowitz and Mermelstein, the best color street photography i've ever seen

[Mackinaw]

I think whether one shoots B&W or color depends on the situation. Photographing a Cinco de Mayo parade, with its bright colors, is probably best done with color. Photographing a street scene on a cloudy, dark day in late November (northern hemisphere) is probably best done in B&W.

This pic was taken in Detroit on a dark, cloudy day in late November. B&W adds to the grittiness, at least to me.

Jim B.

http://gallery.leica-users.org/d/118555-2/Michigan+Ave.jpg

[nrb]

I do bw because I can develop it at home. I also develop color film in bw chemistry to be able to do it myself. Labs put fingerprints and dust on film, they don't like your not printing when you have them develop your films.

[GeneW]

I always load B&W. But I cheat a little. I carry an ultracompact digicam for the few occasions when I think colour would be more appropriate.

Some carry a second RF body with col film loaded...

Gene

[back alley]

Bill,

I agree with you about everything in theory - but find that I've acted otherwise in practice.

For quite a while, with my M3, I've wanted to shoot B&W but found that I haven't achieved what I wanted with chromogenic B&W film (XP2 or BW400CN) because, at ISO400, they were just too fast. So I've been shooting Kodak Gold 100 or 200 as B&W film because they convert so nicely in Photoshop (whereas I've found myself unable - so far - to get a "good enough" B&W print from digital, even for shots that work well on screen as B&W - my limitation, not the format).

This doesn't bother me as long as I don't "remember" that I'm actually using colour film. The moment I do, and take a deliberately colour photo, I "lose" seeing in B&W for the rest of the roll. OK, so I never said I was sane.

This may change now that (1) I've started developing my own B&W film and (2) have an appropriate set of ND filters.

But even so, I'm still mostly convinced of the virtues of Kodak Gold shot deliberately as B&W.

...Mike


mike,
try the xp2 shot at 200 and developed normally.
great looking stuff.
joe

[minoltist7]

Ideally, it depends from the subject of shooting.
contrasty scenes, where light and shadows plays key role - BW for sure.
geometric stuff, various regular patterns - BW
people - BW (if I don't have special intention to make accent on something)
summer market - color
funny painted houses - color
architecture - color (but BW seems good if subject is lit properly).
lanscapes and nature - color, with rare exclusion.
I tend to shoot color on digital, becouse I lazy with post-processing scanned films (it requires soo much time to get exact colors in Photoshop - I'm not good at this). So I don't bother. Color is for digital, BW is for manually processed film.

[williams473]

I think it is important not to set rules for yourself. Whether you shoot color or not is just one of the many technical decisions you need to make in the process of creating the images you want to make on the street. Even within color, you need to decide whether you'll shoot negs or chrome, and then within that category, what type of film (warm or cold tone etc.) The same goes for black and white.

So think ahead of time which will serve your purposes - there's no right answer.

[nightfly]

I've always shot B & W for street and it feels right to me. Part of it, as others mentioned is control, I can develop it the way I want at home and part of it is that my eye is more drawn to form than color which I think is a very personal, subjective thing. I think with color, you need to organize the color somehow in a way that my brain doesn't do whereas the sort of formal aspects of black and white come more naturally to me.

Obviously one doesn't literally "see" in black and white but for me, my vision tends to be drawn to scenes with black and white rendering in mind. So I do see more in black and white.

Seeing Mermelstein and Meyerwitz recently at the street photography thing at the Museum of the City of New York (Mermelstein on the panel and Meyerwitz in the audience) made me think about trying some color street, but I will probably stick to black and white. I think the way to decide really is to shoot one or the other and monitor yourself to see if you are bummed out that you didn't have the other in your camera. I usually wish I had black and white in the camera when I'm shooting color, at least for part of the roll, whereas the opposite isn't true.

Of course you can de-saturate but to me desaturated color, digital black and white and C-41 black and white all don't have the bite and tonality I like so it's silver based black and white for me.


Although I do shoot cross processed color for graffitti specific outings:

http://provoke.mediumstudios.com/images/20061230080532_grand-closing.jpg

[PaulRicciardi]

I generally "think" and "see" in BW. The street is so random and cluttered anyways that having the addition of colour often times complicates things. Black and white allows one to simplify. I find that humans attach too much meaning to colours and, while this can be a benefit, I generally want viewers to have an emotional response to a photo because of the content not because of a predetermined attachment to a colour.

However, with that said, there are some instances where colour is the predominant element in a scene or where the contrast of colours really adds to the impact of a shot.

But when you get right down to it, shoot whatever works best for you. BW feels better for me though I have been shooting a lot of colour lately. As with most things in life, YMMV.

[kshapero]

I live in sunny colorful Florida. To keep from stating the obvious I am drawn to B&W.
http://www.akivaphotography.com/photos/250643572_7Jzae-S.jpg
Shot a nice set of candids of film producer David Gil.
http://www.akivaphotography.com/photos/250643356_9QhH4-S.jpg

http://www.akivaphotography.com/photos/250644523_zvYWM-S.jpg

[noimmunity]

both. but i don't do street that much...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2415/2282793209_0800b2044a.jpg
New York City, Feb. 2008

[Bas]

For me it's a complex thing. I used to shot only B&W with my Zorki 4 or my Yashica FX-2. Now that film has become scarce and its cost way too high, my father gave me a present, a Pentax K100D super, so now I have the opportunity to try shots in both ways...

Nevertheless, I've found that it is quite difficult to make an absolute decision. Each scene on its own has its defined character (and the beauty is on the eye of the beholder :) ). The problem is to see it I think.

For example, for me, this image loos certainly good in B&W:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9427/imgp06362pb2.jpg



But this portrait that I took of the girl sitting on the next table at that bar, loses all it's "life" in B&W.

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/5323/imgp06462fl0.jpg


So, I've come to find that each scene has its own character, and while on the street, you can find any. However, if I would have to make a decission, I'd go for B&W.

Best,
Bas.

[peripatetic]

It's an interesting question.

I've only recently come back to film, so I am still experimenting, but I have gotten used to shooting colour with digital and converting to BW where I think the subject works better that way.

This makes me more inclined to shoot colour negative film and do the same thing. I am very interested in testing whether C41 BW films add anything over and above shooting in colour and converting after scan. My suspicion is that they will add very little and one has to give up the option of colour.

Silver of course looks different, but my local lab says it's harder to scan. I don't have my own scanner yet so this is all an adventure. There is of course the (rather perverse I suppose) option of adding digital grain/filters to a file that is scanned from colour neg and converted to BW. But if it works...

I guess if I can get the monochrome results I want from shooting colour neg and converting later then that seems to give widest range of options. Also it seems (for the moment at least) that the cheapest film around is colour neg.

[Bingley]

I think the choice depends on one's taste, where and what you're shooting, and whether you develop your own. I really, really, really admire good b&w street photography, and am trying to improve in that area.

But there are times when only color will do...


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2048/2061298352_6b236a73af.jpg?v=0

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2394/2060508471_bbbfd5b86e.jpg?v=0

[Roger Hicks]

Generally I much prefer B+W but commercially I have to shoot colour as well: many editors either dislike/don't understand B+W themselves or are convinced that their readers dislike/don't understand it.

What surprises me is that my hit rate of successful pics is much the same in both media, though as a general rule I find that colour compositions have to be simpler or they soon become 'bitty' and confusing; much like Paul's point, above.

Then again, I always shoot black and white film (including XP2); the number of successful conversions I have seen or made from colour (film or digi) is very low, because there's very often a 'dead' look to conversions. If anyone is limited to commercial scanning and wants to shoot B+W, I'd go for XP2: the fact that it's a dye image, not silver, makes it much easier to scan.

Cheers,

R.

[Nh3]

With color you see the surface, with black and white you see the essence.


Hello everyone, this is my first post. :)

[kuzano]

What I can't do is shoot a roll of colour "pretending" that it is b&w, knowing that I can desaturate it later if I wish. Bill

Consider the variety of plugins for Photoshop that allow one to convert to black and white with far more control than desaturation alone. Photo Retouche is one of a number. These plugins allow you to emulate various emulsions of B&W, plus control the color channels that affect a simple desaturation process.

CS3 and Photoshop Elements 6 both allow a couple of variations of conversion to B&W, plus filters to add grain. The plugins go far beyond whats in the base programs. Here is a free PSE plugin for BW conversion for example:

http://www.photo-plugins.com/Plugins/Plugins/B-W-Conversion-2.html

A friend (photographer) suggested to me that it does not make much sense to go out shooting and not bring back the color information, whether film or digital, with the post processing control we now have at our disposal.

Another variation on that theme is Coloriage 5.0 which works on CS3, Elements and has a MAC version allow you to add color to a black and white shot.

[Damaso]

Of course it would depend on the streets I was wandering. But unless color is an important part of the landscape I prefer black and white. Cities offer lots of opportunities for concentrate on form and line and black and white helps accentuate that in my opinon...