Nickel Elmar sans Serial Number

[Rob-F]

I recently bought one of the nickel Elmars that have no serial number. In another thread here, I read that these were made before 1933. I'd like to see what else is known about this lens, eg, more precisely when a batch was made without serial number; whether they were all made in the same batch; whether they were all made before any Elmars were given serial numbers--basically, just whatever there is to know about them.

TIA!

[OldNick]

Have you examined the bronze ring that surrounds the front element using a good magnifier? See if there are VERY small numerals engraved there.

Jim N.

[Rob-F]

Yes I did check for that. definitely nothing there.

[john neal]

Rob,

The only thing I have found is probably what you already know - serials started at 80,000 in 1933. Before that lenses had no serial no. I don't think they were all made in one big batch, particularly because of the changes needed when the film to lens flange was "standardised", and the number produced. My own "11 o'clock" example from 1933 is in the range 126xxx, which seems to show that they made a lot of lenses in a year (OK, I know that numbers were allocated in batches, and not always completed in the same year).

I'm sure there are a lot of folks who would like to find out - hope you get some info.

[L39UK]

Leitz started numbering lenses externally from approx.lens serial number 92000.
and before this they were marked internally within the lens which can only be seen when the lens is dismantled.
Un numbered 50mm Elmars were the standard lenses fitted to the first interchangeable lens screw Leica model the Leica 1 "type 0" register Interchangeable "Model C" (1931).
These un-numbered Elmars were issued in uncoupled mounts as the first coupled rangefinder camera the Leica 11 wasn't built until 1932.
Many were returned to Leitz for rangefinder coupling to be fitted after the introduction of the Leica 11, so they can be found in uncoupled and coupled mounts depending on whether they were sent back to Leitz for modification after 1932.
Regards,
William

[Luddite Frank]

My Leica D (S/n 77,xxx) came with nickel Elmar # 99,981... s/n stamped into the bronze ring for the front element.

It is RF-coupled and has the "11 o 'clock" inf. lock.



Luddite Frank

[Rob-F]

John: I see 50mm Elmar in my copy of Jim Lager's book, with a serial number of 432. So there must be exceptions to 80,000 as a starting point.

William: Thanks for this info. Mine does have the coupled mount, I didn't realize that the early ones had the serial number placed internally.

Frank: I have a recently acquired Leica D as well. I bought this early Elmar thinking it would be a good contemporary mate for the D. Mine has a 7:00 infinity lock position, though. And it is uncoated. Actually I was wanting to duplicate a D, with Elmar, that my father used to have. It was the first Leica I ever shot with. He left it in the car seat during a trip, and it was stolen. So, I wanted another for old times sake!

[L39UK]

[quote=Rob-F]John: I see 50mm Elmar in my copy of Jim Lager's book, with a serial number of 432. So there must be exceptions to 80,000 as a starting point.



ROB,
The ELMAR with the number 432 is not the lens serial number. The first issue of Leica 1 Interchangeable "Model C" were produced before the standardisation by Leitz of a front flange to film plane distance of 28.8mm.This model could use interchangeable lenses but each set of lenses had to be matched to each individual camera because the front flange to film plane distance varied with each camera. Leitz therefore engraved the last 3 digits of serial no. of the camera to which they had been matched, on each of the matching lenses.
So if you had purchased a Leica 1 interchangeable before standardisation, any lenses you ordered would be matched to that body and engraved with the last 3 digits of the body serial number.
So the lens engraved 432 is NOT a lens serial number but indicates that the lens was matched to Leica camera serial no. XX432.
Regards,
William

[Rob-F]

John: OK, got it, thanks! It's sort of like the way they matched the focusing mount of my 90mm Elmarit to the lens head, by serial#.

There's always more to learn . . .

[L39UK]

Regarding the external numbering of Leica lenses.
I think you will find that they started numbering externally at lens serial no. 92000.
In over 50 years of study of available Leica screw lenses I have never seen a lens externally numbered below 92000. If anybody knows of one serial numbered below 92000 I would be extremely interested to know.