Jackpot!! Deadstock Avenon 21mm f2.8! [Archive]

mtokue

04-09-2005, 01:22

After posting in another thread about this lens. and offering to possibly
help aquire another for the thread owner I searched further and came across
a small camera company/trading company that has some of these lenses
in stock! Brand new!
The Lens in question is the Avenon / Kobalux / Pasoptik
(Depending on where you are) 21mm f2.8 Leica screw mount.
It seems to be quite liked by those that have used it.
Couple of reviews Here (http://www.nemeng.com/leica/029ba.shtml) and Here (http://www.dantestella.com/technical/kobalux.html)

I have some shots taken with this lens on the RD-1 in my gallery.
Also to note I have not had to use any correction for vignetting.
The falloff at the edges with this Lens seems minimal.
You do have to use a L-M adapter I have found no problems with this combo.

He has about 7-9 Black Lenses, I am trying to work a deal out..
His initial price was about 340 pounds I think If I was to take 4-5 off his hands
I could probably get them down to around 300 pounds

So, as before with the Japanese Epson RD-1 book, I will, for a slight
contribution to my Driks/Film fund (Choose whichever is believable)
Aquire and ship one out.

There are only Black lenses available.
Attached are some shots aquired from the company in question.
Comes in the box with pouch, both caps and the lens hood.
These Lenses are no longer Produced so finding new ones I believe is
not an everyday occurance, and I think the price is pritty sweet too!
Anyway let me know.
Shipping via EMS is around 15 ponds

PS. As seen in the first photo these are from the Last batch produced in 2000
And the retail price at the time was around 450 pounds
Mike

pfogle

04-09-2005, 03:55

I'm up for one!
Phil

mtokue

04-09-2005, 05:09

Apparently these third genration ones are the ones to go for. and the Black versions are scarcer than the silver version with only a few hundred made....
Three spoken for thusfar and one in a holding pattern.

Mike.

mtokue

04-09-2005, 05:25

OK Just got off the phone and have secured 9.
He also informed me that he has 3 of the 28mm f3.5
Anyone? Also Deadstock Brandnew!!
Costs about 230 pounds.

Mike

Jim Watts

04-09-2005, 07:34

Mike,
Can you add me to the list for one please.

pfogle

04-09-2005, 07:41

Do you need dosh to secure the sale?

cheers
Phil

mtokue

04-09-2005, 08:00

No not yet. the company is closed tomorrow and I've told them that
I'd be in on monday after work, So they agreed to hold all 9 till then.
I'll go and see them and check the lenses, Make sure they are all
as explained to me and as per supplied photos, Then I'll try to
haggle for the best price! :cool:
I will then contact all that have requested the lens and workout
postage & details, etc. :rolleyes:
For RFF members in the UK I will request payment to my Barclays account.
For RFF members elseware Paypal with 3% charges or postal order.
Or I will accept either a 24mm or 28mm ASPH Cron in EXchange :D

So At this moment I have:

For 21mm
5 confirmed
1 on hold
3 Left

For 28mm
1 confirmed
2 Left.

Mike

PS I have not posted on Pnet nor Scam-Bay

Charles D. Orze

04-09-2005, 08:05

I'll take a 21.28 black if any left! let me know.

Thanks,

Charlie Orzech

peter_n

04-09-2005, 08:08

Mike this is a great service you are performing for the members here. The lens is optically excellent and the build quality is absolutely superb. The price at around £300 is around what you would pay for the 3rd generation of the lens in the U.S. when it was last available a couple of years ago. Plus you are getting black ones and so the resale value of these lenses will be higher than the silver ones because there were so few made. Potential buyers of the lens should know that they take regular thickness filters, I have UV, med. yellow, green and red filters for mine and there is no problem with vignetting at all (filter size is 58mm).

One question: does the lens come with an LTM/M adapter ring and a 21mm viewfinder? The Kobalux U.S. versions did.

mtokue

04-09-2005, 08:09

The Tally is now

For 21mm
6 confirmed
1 on hold
2 Left

For 28mm
1 confirmed
2 Left.

Mike

mtokue

04-09-2005, 08:24

Peter,
"Mike this is a great service you are performing for the members here."
Thanks for that. Although I used to earn a living with Photography,
There doesn't seem to be that much for me to contribute as far as
Technique, (Plus I'm a Lousy writer) So I'm trying to contribute in
any way that I can. Cause I get a lot from being a member here!

No unfortunately it seems that overhere in Japan
They sell everypart separately. So no finder nor an L-M
adapter. They also used to sell a nice leather case
for the lens rather like the Canon Wide Serinars
That holds the Lens and Finder.
I have been trying to find this as well but no luck so far.

Mike.

Terence T

04-09-2005, 08:40

Email sent.

Thanks :)

mtokue

04-09-2005, 08:41

Boy are these Flying!

The Tally is now

For 21mm
7confirmed
1 on hold
1 Left

For 28mm
1 confirmed
2 Left.

Mike

Jim Watts

04-09-2005, 08:52

"So I'm trying to contribute in any way that I can."

Mike,
All your contributions are excellent and the effort you have put into this project (and the book) go well beyond the call of duty. I would just like to add my thanks in public for adding me to the list for the 21mm. and to thank all the friendly folk in this forum who make it such a pleasant place to exchange ideas.

mtokue

04-09-2005, 09:03

Thank you Jim.
I'm in the same opinion. There are very few sites such as this
where people share, and yes there are a few remarks here and there
but there seems to be a very good pool of people here.

And It was a pleasure to recieve your request.
I really need to hit the sack its just gone 2 am overhere!
Cheers
Mike.

gelmir

04-09-2005, 09:08

I've never heard about Kobalux/Avenon before. Does this company still produce lenses ?

peter_n

04-09-2005, 10:03

I've never heard about Kobalux/Avenon before. Does this company still produce lenses ?The company that made these lenses is Y.K. Optical of Yokohama. Y.K. are high quality OEM manufacturers and the company is still going strong AFAIK. However the production of these particular Kobalux/Avenon/Pasoptik/Bower lenses was discontinued in 2002 or 2003 (I forget which). The kobalux.com domain name has also expired so Y.K. must also be dropping the brand.

gelmir

04-09-2005, 10:08

Too bad ! :( Thanks for your answer Peter.

Andrew Hughes

04-09-2005, 10:10

Can I have a 21/2.8 please.

existrandom

04-09-2005, 10:54

too bad that i cannot finance to have a 28/3.5 at this moment ;-(
wonderful work mtokue!

pabaker34

04-09-2005, 11:24

Can anyone say how the Kobalux compares to the Voigtlander or the Contax Biogon? I know the Voigtlander is only f4 but as far as sharpness, distortion? Thanks in advance!

peter_n

04-09-2005, 12:26

I have not compared mine to a CV 21mm/f4 but WRT distortion my sample exhibits no rectilinear distortion whatsoever. With the lens wide-open vertical lines remain vertical (and straight) out to the edges of the frame. That was one attribute that was articulated on the now-no-longer-available Kobalux web page on this lens. The lens appears sharp and has, as you might expect, an unbelievable DOF. It is a good lens and its a pity that it is discontinued as the Leica and Zeiss offerings in this focal length/aperture are extremely expensive. :( The one thing that mitigates against the lens is its size - it is not small but to be honest, it is not particularly heavy either.

vincenzo

04-09-2005, 13:03

Mike, I definitely want one of these black beauties but if someone pulls out let me know because I might take two!

kbg32

04-09-2005, 13:32

I would be interested in the 28 f3.5. Do you have any pictures of it?

Thanks.

peter_n

04-09-2005, 13:45

Keith they are already posted by Mike in the fourth post in this thread.

mtokue

04-09-2005, 21:56

WOW, This is exactly the sort of thing that makes this Forum so special!
Thank you Peter for taking over and answering the questions etc. whilst I was
off sleeping through the night!. Global coverage. What corporations dream of
and try to attain. Done here without any coordination and planning!.
Now isnt this the sort of thing that Zeiss should lookinto for their new range.
Drop the Pricepoint and get us to distubute their Lenses!!

Well, as for the Avenon 21mmLenses all 9 are now spoken for, But if there are other
members that are interested please let me know I will put together a waiting list.
You never know. I might find that they have a couple more when I go tomorrow!
My Card company is gonna love me tomorrow when I pay for all these lenses!!

There are still two of the 28mm available.

Cheers
Mike

mtokue

04-09-2005, 22:35

I would recommend all with interest in this lens to read the following
thread by Jlw Here (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5438)
It decribes the need to be careful in the choice/purchase of L-M adapters,
especialy when using on focal lengths shorter than 50mm.

Mike

LCT

04-10-2005, 00:16

How about the front focus issue referred to by David here:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5355&page=2
Best,
LCT

mtokue

04-10-2005, 01:03

Well, LTC,
I personally do not have a problem with my 21mm with regards to
Front Focus, But then again I also don't have a problem with my 35mmASPH Cron
And I seem to recall someone had problems with that lens also.
I really can not comment but although david did mention that he has tried a couple
of L-M adapters, perhaps there is a chance of a problem there as he seems to be
content with the results on his M2.

And as far as my logic goes as he is not experiencing the same type of problem
on the M2 it does not seem that the lens needs adjusting.
I will however mention that the RD-1 is not a very forgiving camera and any
discrepencies and or technical problems seem to be almost magnified in the results.
FYI the adapter that I use on mine is designated for use on a 135mm Lens.
I really need to find my Calipers!
And my Leitz L-M adapter does not seem to sit properly (Thread completely)
with my silver 21mm Avenon, but is fine with my Non Branded adapter.

Mike.

Jim Watts

04-10-2005, 01:27

Mike,
Given the problems of Cam compatibilty with certain lenses (note my posts on the 35mm Crons) do you think you could check (or have you) if there are any forward or back focus problems with this lens on the R-D1. Your Temple Donation Box picture looks pretty good but as there is plenty of DOF I suspect that this is stopped down a bit. Full aperture at less than 5 feet is what I am interested in as I expect a lot of my pictures with this lens would be at that focusing distance. Is your lens from the same series as the Deadstock? Many thanks again for your time and help.

Jim Watts

04-10-2005, 01:30

Sorry Mike I started to post the above before I saw your 10.03 comment.

akalai

04-10-2005, 02:18

Before people begin to fret perhaps someone should ask David Kieltyka what version of the Avenon 21mm lens he was using.

Its my understanding that there were at least three versions of this lens and that supposedly there was an improvement both in optics and build quality in the 3rd generation lens. The third generation lens has the short focus, .7m compatibility and has 8 aperture blades....although I am not sure how many the earlier versions had...

The lens that Mike is offering to run around after for people here is the latest and greatest version of this lens, is the 3rd generation lens.

AKALAI

mtokue

04-10-2005, 03:05

I have a proposal / Idea.
Tomorrow when I go to check the lenses (I can actually do this at lunch)
and haggle, plus see how many there actually are. I can choose one of
them at random and take a series of shots.

I would imagine the following shots would give a rough coverage:

Shot of the sky - f2.8 & 22 Show Vignetting
Shot of a subject at min focus dist - f2.8 & f 22 to show Dof & Focus & OOF & Bokeh

If there are others that would be useful Please let me know.
Now, I would like to have requests in in the next 12 or so hours this will
allow me to check the site before I set out in the morning.
If there is anything else I can do to test the lens Let me know.
I'm getting one of these for myself as well so I do want to be sure as well.
As Akalai has pointed out these are the Last Generation
which from reading around the web do seem to be the ones to go for.

Cheers
Mike.

vincenzo

04-10-2005, 03:21

If you have time could you try to take a quick street portrait at 2.8 and 8 at MFD ?

peter_n

04-10-2005, 06:33

Its my understanding that there were at least three versions of this lens and that supposedly there was an improvement both in optics and build quality in the 3rd generation lens. The third generation lens has the short focus, .7m compatibility and has 8 aperture blades....although I am not sure how many the earlier versions had...
Akalai is correct. There are three generations. The third generation is considered the "best" lens. I have the second generation which also has a short focus throw, 0.9M closest focusing distance and 6 aperture blades. I understand the major differences between the two versions are closest focus distance and some adjustment in the optics to allow this. I believe that optically the 2nd and 3rd versions of the lens are otherwise very similar.

David Kieltyka

04-10-2005, 09:25

My Kobalux 21mm is from the third generation. But I wouldn't assume because my particular lens has an issue (front focus) with my particular R-D1 that all samples of this lens have the same issue. I've used my Kobalux on other cameras, two Leicas and two Bessas, and haven't noticed focusing discrepancies with any of them. This includes a careful lens test on my M2 after first noticing the problem on the R-D1. It may be my R-D1 is slightly out-of-spec in a way that only manifests itself with wide lenses. Dunno. I may have DAG take a look at it to be sure.

-Dave-

Sonnar2

04-10-2005, 10:27

Let me on the list for the 21mm....
Thanks, Frank

imagineitframed

04-10-2005, 13:51

I'd like to join the waiting list for the 21/2.8.
Thanks for the great service.
Rich

jlw

04-10-2005, 13:54

David Kieltyka

04-10-2005, 16:07

Have you read the thread I just started about variations in screw-to-bayonet adapters? An adapter that's too thick would cause wide-angle lenses to front-focus, and the wider the lens, the more the deviation would be.

Yep, I have read it. I've tried out the Kobalux with a number of different adapters...from Cosina, Kobalux themselves (both made to order by other companies no doubt) and today a Leitz. The front-focusing behavior is the same with all of them. Now I guess all the adapters could be a little out-of-spec. But I'd expect to see this with the 28mm Ultron too and I don't. At close range the discrepancy is small enough that DOF covers it by f/4. But at infinity it's quite obvious even at small apertures. This leads me to suspect the R-D1, but since focus is on-the-money with longer lenses and I rarely use the 21mm (I prefer to go from 28mm right to 15mm) I may not bother doing anything about it.

-Dave-

Jim Watts

04-10-2005, 23:57

David,
Could the problem be due to the shape of the cam on the Kobalux you have not meeting thr R-D1 cam follower correctly? This seems to be the problem with the 35mm Crons that I have reported on and which of course do not use an adapter. I would think that this would be across at least a series of the lens though and Mike does not have a problem with his. Could all be down to tolerences???

pfogle

04-11-2005, 00:29

David, sorry if I missed this, but are your Kobalux samples posted?

cheers
Phil

nf3996

04-11-2005, 02:45

Just caught up with reading these posts. Looks like all the 21mm lenses are taken, but if there is a waiting list, or you come across any more, please count me in.

Regards,

Alan

mtokue

04-11-2005, 03:12

OK Gents.
I have Two pieces of Bad news and Two that are good.
Which first The good or the Bad.

Hmmmmm.

OK BAD News First!
It had been Raining all day! Thus I have not been able to get any shots
as I had planned!
My Haggling has only managed to lower the price to 315 pounds from 340
I'm sorry, I tried But that, I believe was the Limit before actually getting the guy annoyed!
It terns out he is/was friends with Mr Kobayashi ( I don't think the same as CV)
of YK Optical in Yokohama. And he purchased the remaining stock when the
company folded. FYI thats why the name KobaLux ...
The GOOD News:
He had gathered 12 together by the time I had got there Today. He believes that
given a few more days he should be able to dig out a few more.
He showed me his "Stockroom" Racks of boxes Floor to cieling with no Idea
as to whats where!!
I did manage to get one shot off outside It Is Very dark but I dont see a
Focusing problem.

So I will Try my luck tomorrow but the weather forcast is not good.
Maybe at the supermarket or somewhere like that.

mtokue

04-11-2005, 05:00

My observations having Played around with the Lens for a
short while.
The Build quality seems to be better than my silver version
which I have been told is a second version.
There are now click stops in between the aptures.
The apture selection is much more precise/solid.

So to recap
There are 9 lenses spoken for out of a current total of 12
There may be a few more, But these are definately the last
batch out of the company as it Folded.
The Lens Costs 315 pounds, Postage depending on where to.
Plus a small contribution towards my Film/Drinks Fund :D .
(I am thinking along the lines of 10 pounds :eek: .
Let me know if you think thats too much)

I will try to take some pictures with it again tomorrow
But as mentioned earlier it looks like more rain! :bang:
I will now start getting in touch with those of you who
have already asked for one.

Thought I'd upload a couple of shots of the Lens on a Camera
The RD-1 with the new Black 21mm and the CV 21mm Finder for D
The M2 with the Older Silver 21mm and the Avenon 21mm Finder.

Don't know if the last shot is of any use its of the Ceiling above me.

Cheers
Mike.

vincenzo

04-11-2005, 05:09

Thanks Mike, 10 pounds to your slush fund is fair enough considering all your time and efforts. The VC viewfinder is a good match for the avenon?

Jim Watts

04-11-2005, 05:50

Thanks Mike, 10 pounds seems more than fair to me as well.

"It had been Raining all day! Thus I have not been able to get any shots
as I had planned!....I will try to take some pictures with it again tomorrow
But as mentioned earlier it looks like more rain! "

Results so far look promising but when you check again tomorrow could you take a close up at full aperture of something like an angled newspaper and check that the spot you focussed on with the rangefinder agrees with the sharpest spot when magnified on screen (jpeg H). This will more clearly show front or back focus and could be done in out of the rain. :) My example for the Summicrons is here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3867
Thanks again.

mtokue

04-11-2005, 05:58

The VC Finder does seem to be a good match for the Lens
But I must admit that, I don't think I use the finder in the
"Normal way" infact I hardly ever use the finder on the camera.
What I tend to do is use the finder to get used to the area
the lens covers and then use the cameras finder to roughly compose.

Strange I know...
Mike.

Jim, I will try to take the type of shot that you suggest.

peter_n

04-11-2005, 06:29

I'm sorry to hear that Y.K. Optical has folded. I actually captured the Kobalux 21mm web page several months ago so I have it on one of my servers. Maybe I'll put it back up on the 'net! :)

WRT finders, don't buy the Kobalux/Avenon finder in Mike's picture if you can avoid it. It is massive - 39mm diameter - and at least mine suffers from pretty bad barrel distortion. I use a Russian 20mm finder (for the Russar lens) that is optically excellent and has very clever mechanical parallax correction with a distance scale built in. About U.S. $80 on eBay.

vincenzo

04-11-2005, 07:31

Yes, it does look big, I might get the VC 21 finder although I think I will end up simply visualising the framelines after some practice like Mike. Peter, have you tried a Russar lens on your rd-1?

nf3996

04-11-2005, 07:33

Not sure if I'm in the 9 already taken (see my message at #43), but if so, GBP 10 for your trouble is fine by me.

Alan

peter_n

04-11-2005, 07:38

Yes, it does look big, I might get the VC 21 finder although I think I will end up simply visualising the framelines after some practice like Mike. Peter, have you tried a Russar lens on your rd-1?vincenzo I regret to say I don't have an R-D1, just a Leica M6TTL and a Canonet.

stevence

04-11-2005, 10:50

Have been away for the past days and wow, what an offer!

I'd like to have one as well, if I'm not too late! £10 for your 'expenses' seems fair enough!

Steven

hth

04-11-2005, 11:31

Put me on the waiting list as well, at least for a 3rd generation 21 if it has half click stops..

/Håkan

mtokue

04-11-2005, 12:33

OK Gents
As it Stands I would like to put a deadline on this of
Wednesday evening to either place an order or not.
Please send me a PM if you think youve been missed out
I have contacted all that have requested one thus far.

If anybody else is interested from this point on
I can not guarantee whether you will get one, untill
I go back to the company on Tuesday evening or
wednesday afternoon.
I would say judging by what I saw
that we are probably OK for probably three or four more
but I think thats about it.
This will be the Last of these lenses.

No one for the 28mm's ??

Mike.

David Kieltyka

04-11-2005, 18:12

David,
Could the problem be due to the shape of the cam on the Kobalux you have not meeting the R-D1 cam follower correctly? This seems to be the problem with the 35mm Crons that I have reported on and which of course do not use an adapter. I would think that this would be across at least a series of the lens though and Mike does not have a problem with his. Could all be down to tolerences???

Don't know. The R-D1 works fine with my other lenses and this lens works fine with my other LTM and M mount cameras. It could be the camera is slightly out in one direction while the lens is slightly out in the opposite direction. Put the two together and you have a focusing discrepancy.

-Dave-

David Kieltyka

04-11-2005, 19:49

David, sorry if I missed this, but are your Kobalux samples posted?

Those samples aren't online any more. But I've attached a pic showing part of the issue. It's made up of two full-res crops from the center of two test photos, both taken with the Kobalux at f/2.8. The first, on the left, is focused via the R-D1's rangefinder. The RF's point-of-focus is just short of infinity and is where I'd expect it to be given the subject-to-camera distance (roughly 50 meters). On the right the lens is focused to infinity. The shot at infinity is just a bit sharper than the other. You may have to look carefully to see it. Stop down to f/5.6 and DOF covers the difference easily.

The more significant part of the problem, which you can't really see here, is that even when focused to infinity objects beyond the building shown in the example crops are rendered quite softly. Stopping down helps a little but even at f/11 distance areas are fuzzy. This is because even at infinity the point-of-focus is in front of where it should be to render "infinity" with the definition the lens is capable of.

At first I thought this might be an adapter problem so I tried a few different ones. Made no difference. Then a couple weeks ago I did a focus test using my M2 and a yard stick (first time in 30+ years of RF shooting that I've ever done such a test) and found focus was just fine with the Kobalux-supplied adapter. Infinity looks much crisper on the M2 as well. After reading Jim's post yesterday about adapter thickness issues I tried every adapter I own (15 of 'em!) with the lens on the R-D1. Performance is the same regardless of the adapter used.

My 15mm Heliar seems to render "infinity" okay and my longer lenses are fine. So I'm at a loss to explain what's going on. Even if the RF cam weren't engaging properly with the lens I'd expect infinity to be correct. And if the lens were messed up I'd expect to see obvious problems with it on all my RF cameras. Weird...

-Dave-

mtokue

04-12-2005, 01:28

Well,
I think I'm about to dissapoint a few people.
I am, due to having lent my MF Kit out to a friend
stuck without a tripod.
So the shot below is handheld. Trying to shoot indoors
as it is pelting down outside.
I am afraid that it really doesn't do much to eliviate the concerns
that some have about the possibility of front focusing on the RD-1.

All I can say is that I personaly feel that the silver 2nd
version and this 3rd version, To me at least do not seem to
exibit near focusing problems with my RD-1.

Please understand that I can in no way Guarantee
that any of these lenses will nor will not exibit this
problem. I am very happy with mine and thus have bought
a 3rd generation one as well.

I haven't had the chance to try the 3rd version on film
but I definately do not expect a problem there.
the first shot shows the whole frame. and the second is a larger crop.
shot at f2.8 . I will experiment further but its quite a task
with such a wide lens.
I was focusing in on the lower edge of the second brochure
from the top. I should probably try this again at a higher
asa and at a lower angle.

Cheers
Mike.

Jim Watts

04-12-2005, 02:03

Mike,

I am not being critical of you efforts here nor in anway backing out of my prior commitment to take one of the lenses (see my e-mail) but I do see front focus here.

In theory DOF should extend for twice the distance behind the point of focus than in front. If you focused on the front edge of the second brochure Leica Lenses) the DOF falls off too quickly behind this point in comparison to in front. As in your posted examples it looks equally sharp for quite a distance in front of your focus point I can't quite make out the point of optimum sharpness. The good thing is that DOF even at f/2.8 means that the focus point will be sharp but not much beyond it, so its probably acceptable in most cases and should be better when stopped down. What was your focus distance in the second picture? An infinity test as per Davids posting would be helpful when the weather improves.

mtokue

04-12-2005, 02:33

Hi Jim,
I understand, what you are saying. Hey I consider critisism a good thing.
I only critisize / am critical to those that I care about or have a thought for.
Well, as I mentioned I am currently without a tripod so the way I shot was
probably not the ideal way of shooting.
I basically turned the focus ring to the Min (0.7m) then moved the camera
and myself untill I had focused on the edge.

Mike

Jim Watts

04-12-2005, 03:02

Thanks Mike,
A tripod is better if only to check for repeatabilty. See my comments in Chris's "Just purchased a Leica 90mm APO-summicron-M lens" thread, but I have done it handheld as you describe as this is more like a real world situation. Could I suggest though that you try with a focus point of a little over 1 meter (got any more Leica Mags. to extend the run? :D ) using the focus ring to achieve focus as its common for some lenses not to couple properly to the rangefinder close to absolute minimum focus point.

I have just now tried David's infinity test on my 35mm f/2 Cron that front focuses. Focused on about 50ft wide open (f/2) it seems just a little sharper at the correct focus distance than when reset to infinity. So the problem is only close up in my case. Although I can see the difference in David's posted pictures hopefully a few more tests will confirm the Deadstock you have found us is better, but if not I think in most of the shooting situations I would use the lens in it should be O.K. And I pretty certain the problem would not occur with my M4, although this is being sadly neglected these days.

mtokue

04-12-2005, 03:46

OK this one is shot at just about the 1m mark and yes I can see
what you are pointing out I was focusing on the Second one from the left
the pale blue Enlarger.
This is again croped centre
Mike

Jim Watts

04-12-2005, 04:47

Thanks again Mike,
Looking at your posted attachment at a 100% in Photoshop I etimate the sharpest plane of focus to be the verticle to T in the word catalogue on the first brochure. Assuming about a 50% crop, given the size of your post, and from the angle you shot and also assuming the focus point was the middle of the blue enlarger brochure I would guess this is a front focus of about 2 inches. My estimate of (for me) acceptable DOF from here would be more than 3 inches (beyond the front edge of the front brochure) and 3 inches behind. So although there is front focus it seems this is better than on my Cron with the problem (3 inches) and I would think better than most people could achieve consistantly with focus handheld in in "fluid" real world situations. I hope the infinity focus checks out though.

The lens certainly seems sharp where it does achieve focus seems more than acceptable to use on the R-D1 from your post here except for the most critical work.

I don't see many Robert Frank pictures as sharp as this for instance, but they are still great photos.

David Kieltyka

04-12-2005, 08:00

I should note the issue I've brought up with my particular Kobalux reveals itself at long focus distances. At two meters and closer the focus accuracy seems fine.

-Dave-

vincenzo

04-13-2005, 02:51

So the problem is only at long focus distances for David, but Mike you said you don't have a problem with this? My feeling is that certain RD-1 / Kobalux combos may not be ideal, but from what I gather it may only be some models and probably worth the risk. You used the lens Mike, if you've tested it properly and you are still buying one then I presume they are good and I will step ahead and buy today... Are you posting any more examples to clear the infinity short focus ??

mtokue

04-13-2005, 06:13

I can only speak for myself but I for one am happy with this lens, I now know that there is a slight front focus at Close range but we are talking about quite minute amounts. And this with the RD-1 not on film.
Unfortunately The weather here is still Rain, Rain and more rain,
It's a shame because the cherry blossom trees are in full bloom!
Anyway I managed to grab a few shots this evening
at the train station.

Mike.

Jeroen

04-13-2005, 06:34

By the way - you Canon people know it's not compatible with the P? That's what Dante Stella writes: http://www.dantestella.com/technical/canonp.html

Jim Watts

04-13-2005, 08:28

I agree with Mike. While I think there is a slight front focus problem and there is a possibility that certain RD-1 / Kobalux combos may be worst than others (the reverse also being possible) I think it is not significant in "Real World" shooting situations. Its just something to test for and be aware of. Mike's latest pictures above of the combination in normal use should help dispel any doubts. I for one have not been put off the purchase and I hope anythink I have posted on this has not detered others. Mike has take a lot of time and trouble over this and I would again like to thank him for all the effort.

Wishing you better weather soon Mike. Thought it was only England where it rained like that. Driest winter here for years - hosepipe bans coming. It must be all down to Global Warming caused by pouring darkroom chemicals down the drain over the years, or is the heat being generated by all these new digital sensors? :D

vincenzo

04-13-2005, 08:48

Yes, well done Mike! Thanks for your great efforts...!

mtokue

04-13-2005, 09:16

Thanks, Chaps, It really hasn't been that much of an ordeal. I'm sure that one of these days I'll be thanking you for something or other. Plus think about these poor lenses stuck in a carboard box. not even in a proper camera store. not knowing when they would be adopted......
At least I know this lot will be going to people that will take them out to see new and wonderous sights all over the globe from America, Argentina, Canada, UK, Sweden, Singapore and Germany. And that! makes me feel good!
Yes I have been told I am strange!
Mike.
PS the first batch will be starting their Jorneys tomorrow morning!!

peter_n

04-13-2005, 09:25

It is slowly beginning to dawn on me that I have read about the 3rd. gen. of this lens not being quite accurate at closest focus on a Leica. Mine (2nd. gen.) has a closest focus of 0.9M so there is no issue. But the 3rd (I believe) has a closest focus of 0.7M and in some cases slightly lower and I know I've read somewhere that some cams haven't been able to focus exactly at closest focus because a particular lens goes a smidgin below 0.7M. I don't think its anything to worry about...

David Kieltyka

04-13-2005, 09:34

So the problem is only at long focus distances for David, but Mike you said you don't have a problem with this? My feeling is that certain RD-1 / Kobalux combos may not be ideal, but from what I gather it may only be some models and probably worth the risk.

I doubt there's any issue with Kobalux lenses of any generation as a whole. My issue is, I suspect, particular to my samples of the R-D1 and 21mm lens. The 21mm performs fine on my M2 and Bessa T. I'll bet just about all copies of the lens work correctly on just about all R-D1s.

-Dave-

mtokue

04-15-2005, 04:43

OK Chaps,
An update.
First batch of seven lenses have started their Journey today,
The respective new "pairents" have been sent an e-mail or PM.
with the Tracking numbers. If you have not recieved a message
I'm sorry to say that that means that I haven't picked up your
lenses yet :( . I will be picking up the remainder tomorrow, Those will
be shipped off on Monday ;) .
Those that left this morning, should be with you by Tue or wed.
Remember that if using on the RD-1 or M mount camera
you need to purchase a L-M adapter. So why not click on the
top right of the screen and purchase one from one of our sponsors :D
Cheers
Mike.

peter_n

04-15-2005, 05:20

You're making a lot of people very happy Mike! Great job!! :)

Jim Watts

04-15-2005, 08:45

Mine's on its way. Whoopee! :D :D Thanks Mike. You need viewfinder that works, for a what is effectively a 32mm lens, as well as the adapter if you are using it on the R-D1. VC 21D is the correct choice but see my thread on this.

mtokue

04-17-2005, 00:55

Just incase anybody wanted to see some results with the lens on film.
Here are a few taken yesterday with XP2 in a M2
Mike.

Jim Watts

04-17-2005, 01:03

Mike,
An added bonus that will encourage me not to neglect my M4 so much since having the R-D1. Means I'll have to invest in two finders now though.

mtokue

04-17-2005, 01:08

I know I'm Bad :p , Very Very BAD :D !

mtokue

04-20-2005, 03:56

OK Gents,
Time for another update.
Have been quite caught up with work of late
so have to apologise the second batch did
not get away untill today. But the lenses are off
I will be e-mailing or PMing with their Tracking #s
If you do not recieve either and you were supposed to.
please PM or e-mail me.
Wow we ate up 15 of these lenses!!.
Well, if I come across anything like this again I will
be shure to let you guys know!!
Anyway Thats all Folks!!
Thanks
Mike.

Jim Watts

04-20-2005, 04:48

All the thanks should go to you Mike!

Xavier Bonet

04-28-2005, 21:18

Hi, I had been salivating over a 21mm Kobalux for several month, then I found out it was going with other names like Avenon. Then I found Rangefinderforum.com and your thread “Jackpot” (about the Avenon) and tried to register. For over two weeks I could see it but could not participate. I was checking my email and no answer. I discover I had mistype my email. Finally today it seems a “window” open up -Jorge Torralba did register me manually(THANKS)- and I could write on this Forum.
The message is simple, knowing I’ve bought a RD-1 and I have been looking for an Avenon since ages. Mike, Is it still possible to obtain one 21mm Avenon? Thanks a million.
Cheers
Xavier.

mtokue

04-28-2005, 23:50

I ended up with a spare so I was trying to sell on *bay.
I have sent you a PM.
Mike.

Parker51

10-22-2007, 01:08

Hi lucky guys,

I know, I'm two years late, but....

by any chance , one of you , lucky guys ,thinking of selling one ???

I'm looking for a black one

(I have a silver one + finder) and I can also trade it +money

Anyway , Thanks....
Claude

sleepyhead

10-22-2007, 01:28

anglophone1

10-22-2007, 07:56

Sleepyhead, just sent you a PM.
Clive

Parker51

10-22-2007, 09:29

I have a black one for sale, without finder, on Ebay at the moment - it's a buy it now auction with perhaps an overly optimistic price. I would consider lowering the price for an RFF member.

Do a search for 21mm Kobalux within the EU and you should find it.

Hi Sleepyhead,

I have seen your ad on ebay, but I'm looking for the all black model .
If you don't sell it at this price, I can be interested .
Please let me know.
Anyway, good sale on the bay.

All the best
Claude

Parker51

10-24-2007, 14:01

sleepyhead

10-24-2007, 23:19

Hi Claude, sorry, but the lens as already been sold. Good luck finding one, regards.

Parker51

10-25-2007, 01:12

Hi Claude, sorry, but the lens as already been sold. Good luck finding one, regards.

Happy for you;
They are great lenses.
I think I 'm reaching the point to get a completely black millenium one
,So , I feel good too.
Regards
Claude

jlw

10-25-2007, 05:29

Woo, talk about a blast from the past!

IS there really an all-black Avenon 21/2.8 "type 3" lens, or is that just speculation?

I got one of the dead-stock ones Mike found for us -- it's mostly black, but does have one silver ring (the one nearest the body.)

Reputedly there were very few of these lenses made in the first place (mine is serial number xxx50!) so it would surprise me if there were an even-more-limited edition with a different finish... but stranger things have happened in the world of small-scale Japanese optical manufacturing...

sleepyhead

10-25-2007, 13:08

The lens I just sold, which was a type 3 was black with a chrome part near the body with depth of field markings, and a chrome ring with a filter thread furthest from the body. I have seen an ALL BLACK version, but it was type 2 I believe.

raid

01-01-2009, 16:16

Interesting thread from 2005.

I just bought from the UK a used Avenon 21mm/2.8 black for 99 Pounds. It is a good deal.

jmkelly

01-01-2009, 22:08

raid

01-02-2009, 06:49

No Raid - that is an AM-A-ZING deal! These rarely come up for sale since jiri_e on eBay liquidated his stock. When they do, the type 1 &2 silver models go for about $500 w/o finder (the stock finder is a bit of a dog, anyway). A minty black type 3 should have set you back more like $700-$1000. As you got yours for under US$150 I would say the original title of this thread is apropos - JACKPOT. Post some pics when you can.

John,
It was from the UK for 99 Pounds. I will get a EX+/Mint- condition black 21mm Avenon with the lens covers but no hood or finder. The exchange rate must have been improving for the US since 137 UK Pounds came to $216.

I am thrilled.

By the way, at one time yesterday, I typed by mistake twice the order for the lens, and it showed as 2 x 99 Pounds for two lenses! I then corrected the order. Now they are out of stock at that store.

johneaton

01-02-2009, 07:58

Mike
I will definately take 21mm if you have one left.
Happy new year!!
John

jmkelly

01-02-2009, 08:03

Until recently I owned a lens very similar to that pictured (mine was sn 20108) and it was very nearly every bit as good as the Zeiss Biogon, in a tidier package. Great lens, just not a great focal length for me - rarely used it.

Best of luck with yours, Raid!

raid

01-02-2009, 08:22

John,
I am relatively new to RF wide angle usage. I havre been palying with a 19mm lens recently, but the Avenon should be giving a less vintage look.

raid

01-02-2009, 08:23

Mike
I will definately take 21mm if you have one left.
Happy new year!!
John

Note that Mike's thread started in 2005.

jmkelly

01-02-2009, 09:00

Raid: I've posted this before; it is still probably my favorite shot I ever made with the Avenon 21mm. This was shot @ f2.8. It does not have a vintage look to me. Maybe timeless.

http://images30.fotki.com/v1037/photos/1/1126243/4871630/Avenon_3-vi.jpg

raid

01-02-2009, 09:20

John: This is a great image. I love the soft light on the little girl. Sharpness in the center and in background is seen. This is a sharp lens.

35mmdelux

01-02-2009, 09:34

jmkelly -- beautiful shot. nothing vintage about it.

tajart

01-03-2009, 07:43

thought i'd share an image from one of my former studios taken with the kobalux... this lens went to a rff member who was my introduction here.

jmkelly

01-03-2009, 09:04

Raid, Paul - thanks for the comments. That's my daughter Emma taking a bit of a nap. The lighting was challenging and guaranteed to flare with some of my older lenses. I also think this lens gives a fairly natural perspective with acceptable distortion (as seen in tajart's shot as well).

The Avenon made the perfect street package with my Hexar RF - load it up with HP5+, set the lens on hyperfocal, point, and shoot. I don't do this a lot, which is why I sold the lens. The Biogon on the Contax G is equally good. The package is smaller and lighter than the Hexar/Avenon. I just don't need two 21mm lenses.

CameraQuest

01-03-2009, 09:44

If anyone cares, the Avenon 21/2.8 wasn't actually an Avenon lens. That was simply a rebadged name.

They were actually hand made by a very small operation in Yokohoma named YK Optical, and then sold under a variety of names including but probably not limited to

Kobalux
Avenar
Bower
Pasoptik

I'm told YK is out of the lens making business now, but still a subcontractor for various camera manufacturers.

Stephen