View Full Version : 50mm...a sad admission
back alley
01-19-2008, 17:01
i cannot make the 50mm lens work for me.
try as i might, i can't seem to get really comfortable with the 50mm field of view.
today, i went out with my fastest lens for the saturday shoot out. that lens happens to be the zm 50/1.5 sonnar, a lens that i love the look of the images it produces.
but as i was shooting i realized that i am never in the right place for the shot i want to take. too close usually, i have to always take a step or 2 back. no matter what i do, the 50 fov is not my normal fov, not how i see things.
there are absolutely no plans to rid myself of the sonnar but i think i need to accept that for me it will be my short tele and used for portraits or shots from across the street.
the 35 is my normal and the 25 is my wide. and the rest? i just don't know...
joe
dazedgonebye
01-19-2008, 17:12
I came to the same conclusion some time ago.
40mm seems to be right.
Isn't that odd? Not a huge difference between 40 and 50.
SolaresLarrave
01-19-2008, 17:16
I've thought about selling mine more than once... but I never gathered the nerve because my 'cron 50 is the only Leica item I purchased brand new. I force myself to use it from time to time, but it's just a small telephoto to me.
Shame? Not at all, just a very wide, open mentality. :)
Al Patterson
01-19-2008, 17:41
It is funny how I used a 50 for my only lens on my AE-1 SLR for something like 10 years before I bought a zoom, but I usually use the CL or Canon QL17 with a 40 when I pick up one of the rangefinders. Also, when I used to use my 35 to 105 zoom on my SLR, I was usually using it at 35 70 or 105, hardly ever at 50.
50 now seems odd to me. It's too short for a portrait lens, and to long for landscape or street shots. But I'm keeping my Hexanon anyway...
photogdave
01-19-2008, 17:45
In the same boa here. I only held on to my Summicron 50 because for the longest time it was the only Leica lens I owned. Now I have a 40 I use all the time and a 90 that I've only shot one frame with!
I will keep the 50 because sometimes I just like to stick it on the M4 and see what happens. But 35 is what I use 85% of the time.
Strangely, when I use my SLR my Nikkor 50 1.4 sees the most use of any of my SLR lenses!
A wide-angle lens is like an American Express card: Don't leave home without it.
Why not shoot a whole month=30 films with the 50? I bet you'll end up loving it in the end...
noimmunity
01-19-2008, 17:58
i am never in the right place for the shot i want to take.
i wonder if you might not open that up as a viable theme for your photography? maybe this will just sound stupid, but seen from different angles, both the photog's and the object of the photog's gaze, it might make an interesting series in the zen of position..."never in the right place"...at the very least it could minimize the sense of frustration and replace it with a positive project that accepts those moments and turns them into something else creative. maybe when you start trying to actually do that intentionally and creatively it will become something totally different?
for me it will be my short tele and used for portraits or shots from across the street.
the 35 is my normal and the 25 is my wide.joe
Duh, I realize as I'm reading that you have put your finger on what I've been doing, even though I did not exactly realize it. :o Great post, Joe! The kind that keeps me, for one, coming back here!
Because I use the 50 for portraits, I'm sorely tempted by the ZM C-Sonnar as an addition to my ZM Planar 50. :bang: But I've only begun to explore the limits of the planar...
Uncle Bill
01-19-2008, 18:12
I am the opposite.
In my SLR shooting, I have come back to the 50mm focal length and I find I can get a lot out of it. When shooting with my M3 it's either the 50 Collapsable 'cron or the 50 f1.4 canon. The 35mm Skopar only goes on occasionally.
Strangely, when I use my SLR my Nikkor 50 1.4 sees the most use of any of my SLR lenses!
I think seeing/composing with an SLR vs an RF is so fundamentally different; this is an observation that I have made and I think it is really important. At least for me.
The 50 in an SLR viewfinder gives an immediacy that can surpasses the RF viewfinder. The same seems even more evident for the 90 or 100, for obvious reasons, i.e., the reduced image area described by the frame lines in an RF for a short tele.
Shooting with the M3/50 DR I achieved some really nice images, but as I recall I also found myself moving back more often. The nearly 1:1 view of the M3 made it more like an SLR, but still it wasn't quite the same. I'm wondering, Joe, if the magnification of the ZI isn't part of the issue here?
Still and all, the 40 or 42 is the BEST focal length for general RF work, IMNSHO. I'm glad so many here have finally recognized my wisdom. :D :angel:
With 0.72 cameras, it's easy not to like the 50mm FL because you always see in 35mm view, no matter how much you concentrate on the 50 framelines. But if you shoot a M3, then the 50 FL becomes the only possibility and composing shots is much easier with no 35mm possibility interfering. That's why I think everyone should own a M3.
With 0.72 cameras, it's easy not to like the 50mm FL because you always see in 35mm view, no matter how much you concentrate on the 50 framelines. But if you shoot a M3, then the 50 FL becomes the only possibility and composing shots is much easier with no 35mm possibility interfering. That's why I think everyone should own a M3.
Very astute comment ... seeing outside of your chosen focal length is all very well but as you say may detract from the intention of your composition! :)
As an airplane enthusiast I have been frequently frustrated by the need to move back with a 50 in order to frame the subject. I put a Jupiter 12 35mm on my Leica IIIf and found what I had been looking for. I like a 50 on my SLR, but the 35 is frequently the best choice on my RF.
Jim N.
Brian Sweeney
01-19-2008, 18:25
On a humorous note, I received five 50mm lenses in the mail this week. One Summicron to clean for a friend, and bought three Sonnar's that need a CLA and a J-3 in Contax Mount. Last week, I got an I-50 Rigid in a trade. Cleaned and Lubed it.
JoeFriday
01-19-2008, 18:29
I often walk about with just a 50 on my Leica/ZI/Contax.. mostly because it's the lens I started with and it seems to be a 'do all' lens that can get kind of wide but also will allow you to get in tighter when the situation requires
unfortunately, I admit that at least half the time it seems like a compromise lens.. doing all things fairly well but excelling at nothing.. and since I tend to be a specialist with everything I own (snow tires for winter and high performance radials for summer, for example) it does sometimes strike me as odd that I use the 50mm so much
on the other hand, I think that for many people, myself included, having many lenses requires more calculation.. and sometimes it's best to KISS (keep it simple, stoopid).. I get more good shots that way compared to swapping lenses back and forth
pick the lens that works best for the majority of your photography and give the ZM 50 to me, joe.. your ex-ZI probably misses it, anyway
try using your 28mm more. you might find it replaces your 35mm and 25mm. it's certainly my "get everything you see from where you're currently standing" lens.
mllanos1111
01-19-2008, 18:50
I used my 50 for over 10 years because thats the only lens I owned. Now I own many and havent used the 50 in the longest time. I put it on my camera last week to see what happens and I ended up shooting one of my favorite pictures in years with it.
So I'm going to go out with just that lens again and see what happens.
back alley
01-19-2008, 18:59
on an slr i used to love the 85/100 lenses, no doubt.
the 28 seems like a compromise ever since i got a 25, i love the 25 fov.
ned, i have not shot 25 or 50 rolls with the 50 but i have often taken it out as my only lens and have honestly given it a fair chance. i like the need to be closer with a 35 or even the 25. i think i could easily live with that combo.
joe
W Morgan
01-19-2008, 19:08
35 provides the field I always wanted. I know that 50 is supposed to provide the same fov as the eye, but 35 just seemed more fluid and correctly inclusive.
And then, sometimes it's 28.
I have and use 45-50 fixed lens vintage RFs with sharp glass, however; the quality often allows for cropping into details to mimic 75-90!
Joe,
why is this a sad admission?
You found your sweet spot with the 25 & 35.
No need to be comfortable with what others are comfortable with ;-)
Ciao
joerg
who has more 50mm lenses than he likes, but heh some of them are classics...;-)
back alley
01-19-2008, 19:16
sad because i love the look of the sonnar and had really hoped i could make the 50mm work for me.
that's why i would keep the sonnar and use it as more of a 'specialist' lens.
joe
I know what you mean about the 50mm FL, joe.
My issue with it is a little different. I'm able to compose with it fairly well—when I'm able to take my time. But when I shoot on the street, I usually shoot pretty fast/quickly, and I'm not always perfect on camera tilt. Sometimes I'm very conscious of it when I compose and it's still comes out tilted. :bang:
The 50 lines are so exact that "straightening" the image at the print stage (and trimming the image) usually ends up ruining the composition for me. So sometimes I either have to live with an unacceptable image, or... I have to live with an unacceptable image. ;)
I guess for me when using a 50mm, I need to step back and allow for a little extra room or "decompose" (he he), but then why not just use a 40 or a 35? I get more satisfaction with the 35 FL, because it is a little more roomy. Of course I shoot with it more, so I think my compositions are better with it. So really, I agree with the "practice makes perfect" sentiment, but I have so little time that it's nice to come away from an afternoon of shooting with a pay-off, or at least something salvageable.
Besides, the 35 FL matches more what I see, as it did way back when I used to shoot exclusively with an SLR.
.
.
Joe,
I totally agree with you! ;-)
I am a 35mm guy, even on my SLR, but love the signature of the old Sonnars and the Elmar....
Ciao
joerg
sad because i love the look of the sonnar and had really hoped i could make the 50mm work for me.
that's why i would keep the sonnar and use it as more of a 'specialist' lens.
joe
Use it as a portrait lens, that's what they are made for.
Roland.
back alley
01-19-2008, 19:28
geez ray, now that you mention it...the 50 is slower for me when i'm on the prowl.
that is likely a part of it too.
back alley
01-19-2008, 19:29
Use it as a portrait lens, that's what they are made for.
Roland.
that's the plan rollie...but being such a grumpy old cuss there are fewer opportunities for that lately.
joe
that's the plan rollie...but being such a grumpy old cuss there are fewer opportunities for that lately.
joe
I new there was a deeper motivation to this, cann't just be getting
funds for the new Nokton :D
back alley
01-19-2008, 19:44
i have the new 35 covered ;)
part of me wants to sell half of what i have but i'm thinking that's mostly due to the frustration of having such a short time for shooting and winter's cabin fever.
i have no plans for a sale though.
the slower 35 will likely hit the block when the 1.4 shows.
photobizzz
01-19-2008, 19:54
I am actually getting on a plane in a few hours to go to another base in Iraq and couldn't bring my camera bag, I had to decide which lens to put on my R3A, I chose the 40 Rokkor over my 50 Cron. But I still like them both, I just think the 40 is a bit more versitile, even if it is only 10mm shorter.
Joe,
Sounds like you finding more reasons for that new CV 35/1.4 lens. ;)
larmarv916
01-19-2008, 20:07
I would say that some of the pain that some shooters feel with the 50mm is misplaced as I own a M3 DS and a M6TTL .085 and a M5 .72 With the M3 the 50mm "normal" Frames show are very close to the space on the M6 or M5 with the 35mm Frames. So with the M3 being so close to a 100% viewfinder the normal perspective feels visually very close to the 35 on the M6 & M5. Meaning the spacing around the Frames of 50 and 35 seem somewhat about the same.
But with When I go from the M3 and 50mm normal frame and look into a the M5 with the 35mm frames the difference between the two seems magnified dramaticly. I tend to look at the total viewfinder and not see the frames and then make a decision as to how much extra surronding scenary feels...Normal.
That may not sound logical but it seems to work. That seems to make the final perspective of a shot never feel so "wide angle" or cramped because of using a normal lens. I find the viewfinder really effects me when I use the 90mm lens.
Our generation is really the first group to have unlimted wide angle opportuities. So we tend to reach to far and the compositions seem distorted often.
mackigator
01-19-2008, 20:08
I do like 35mm ... but my 50 keeps giving me winning images. Is it the Hexanon or that focal length forcing me to compose? I can't decide but I am shooting 50mm all that I can because of the images i'm getting. And I can practically see 50 in my sleep now.
The Hex is special ... very special.
mfunnell
01-19-2008, 20:25
Hmm, I guess different people approach things in different ways. I like having lots of room outside the framelines, so the 50mm framelines seem a little too close to the viewfinder edges for me on my M3. I kind've like the 50mm framelines in the 0.60x finder of my Hexar RF (the 35mm framlines are OK there too).
I've found the "Saturday with fastest lens" exercise rather informative as well, but for different reasons. There's a separate post to follow once I get the film scanned...
...Mike
Ever since i saw what Bud Green does with a 50, i've been hooked and in love.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bud_green/
Nikon Bob
01-20-2008, 01:28
Joe
I have always felt the same way about the 50mm FL, even on an SLR. I just have to struggle and fight to use it. I have an old Contax Sonnar 1.5 that I will keep struggling with because I like what it does. The 35mm always seemed to me to be close to what I saw with both eyes open and the 50mm was more like closing one eye.
Bob
Look more closely, see less. Find the specific detail, not the whole which makes your subject interesting to you.
Ever since i saw what Bud Green does with a 50, i've been hooked and in love.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bud_green/
I should have read the whole thread before my last post, Bud is the exact example of what I was saying, a master.
back alley
01-20-2008, 04:37
my bet is that bud could do wonders no matter what focal length he used.
emraphoto
01-20-2008, 04:47
Why not shoot a whole month=30 films with the 50? I bet you'll end up loving it in the end...
...indeed!
I think one can get used to anything. I find that I like the 50 for the way I like to frame, and the perspective is better for me. I use an aux VF on the rangefinder, though.
35 lenses bother me with their perspective, and I have to get annoyingly close to a person to get a candid unless I plan on a lot of cropping.
I agree with both your points. The camera heavily affects what
I consider "normal". Using the M3 (and R3*, Joe) makes 50 much
more attractive, and the .72 M finder is made for 35mm.
I also think wide angles are overrated, and most shots out there,
wider than 25, look like lens tests to me. Including my own.
Roland.
I would say that some of the pain that some shooters feel with the 50mm is misplaced as I own a M3 DS and a M6TTL .085 and a M5 .72 With the M3 the 50mm "normal" Frames show are very close to the space on the M6 or M5 with the 35mm Frames. So with the M3 being so close to a 100% viewfinder the normal perspective feels visually very close to the 35 on the M6 & M5. Meaning the spacing around the Frames of 50 and 35 seem somewhat about the same.
But with When I go from the M3 and 50mm normal frame and look into a the M5 with the 35mm frames the difference between the two seems magnified dramaticly. I tend to look at the total viewfinder and not see the frames and then make a decision as to how much extra surronding scenary feels...Normal.
That may not sound logical but it seems to work. That seems to make the final perspective of a shot never feel so "wide angle" or cramped because of using a normal lens. I find the viewfinder really effects me when I use the 90mm lens.
Our generation is really the first group to have unlimted wide angle opportuities. So we tend to reach to far and the compositions seem distorted often.
When one works very often with one lens one makes better pictures with this lens.
My personal experience: the first portrait lens I have been using was a 135 mm 2.8 fd canon lens with the AE 1 - bought 1975; I have worked with this for 20 years ; when I bought the 85 mm 1.4 with my Contax RX I felt same difficulties as "back alley" ... never on the right place.:p
I have recently bought a Konica Hexar AF with the 35mm ... easy to shoot with compared to my Contax IIa with the 50 mm 1.5....I could capture snapshots easier but at the end of the day my 50 mm pictures are better because i feel good "confortable" (so to say in French) with this lens.:p
I'll need more rolls done with the 35 mm but it is quite possible that my Hexar will be sold quickly...:confused:
I love my 50 Nokton. It has a wonderful beautiful bokeh on the M8. The files are just superb. I do agree that 50mm was never a favorite focal length, but I do find uses for it now and then. I prefer the 90 over the 50 whenever possible. The 50 is perfect for the M3 as stated above.
Just so you know Joe, I was having a difficult time just keeping the 50 on the camera. I had to work all day and night, as I have to do all this weekend. So it has been a challenge to do some shooting. I should be able to post tonight or tomorrow.
Looking forward to seeing everyone's images!
Jamie Pillers
01-22-2008, 22:30
I recently posted a thread asking people what they'd keep if they could only have one lens. Many responses were some brand of 50mm. And I noticed on one of the recent RFF polls about people's favorite focal length... the big majoriity said 50mm. I've been using wider lenses for some time now... 25, 40. But I do remember that my first cameras were Pentax and Olympus SLRs with a 50mm lens... and I was happy! So, with all these endorsements and memories, I went out on the web tonight and bought a Zorki camera and a Jupiter 50mm. We'll see.... :-)
I might be the odd man out. prior to getting hooked on rf i was a nikon dslr person ( i still am ). my favourite lens then was/is the 50/1.4.
in the rf world my favourite len/s are still the 50mm, on my m7 or my m8. so much so that i have the sonar,planar,nokton,and the 'lux. when i travel i am
now just carrying my 'lux and sonar 50mm.
guess i am a shy person or have tunnel vision. for me no better fov exists.
Brian Sweeney
01-23-2008, 01:37
Dr. Ruth says that the only reason that you do not like a 50mm lens is because you just can't let yourself get close to someone.
Use it, or the bad metaphors will continue.
tbarker13
01-23-2008, 07:43
Back when most of my shooting was done with an M6 and M4, I considered the 35mm FL to be my mainstay. The lens that was always on.
But a funny thing happened when I switched to an RD-1 and then an M8. I find myself increasingly using the rough equivalent of the 50mm FL. (applying the crop factor to my 35mm lenses).
Probably one of the reasons why i am dying (already put a deposit down) to get my hands on the new CV35/1.4 in action.
my bet is that bud could do wonders no matter what focal length he used.
Well that is obvious just by his photographs, but at the same time... it gives you a clear indication of how he uses a 50mm to frame, etc. Because i mean in essence that is what we are talking about the framing of subjects, etc with a 50mm. ;)
Just go with whatever you feel comfortable with back ally. :) In the end its you that has to be happy, not anyone else. :D
shadowfox
01-23-2008, 08:10
Joe, take this with a grain of salt, but I think one outing doesn't a preference make.
What I find is that 50mm is excellent for taking close-up pictures of two/three people.
Maybe you can get into a mini-project about those.
Having said that, I am gravitating towards 35mm on RF because I'd like to force myself to get closer to my subjects. :D
i cannot make the 50mm lens work for me.
try as i might, i can't seem to get really comfortable with the 50mm field of view.
today, i went out with my fastest lens for the saturday shoot out. that lens happens to be the zm 50/1.5 sonnar, a lens that i love the look of the images it produces.
but as i was shooting i realized that i am never in the right place for the shot i want to take. too close usually, i have to always take a step or 2 back. no matter what i do, the 50 fov is not my normal fov, not how i see things.
there are absolutely no plans to rid myself of the sonnar but i think i need to accept that for me it will be my short tele and used for portraits or shots from across the street.
the 35 is my normal and the 25 is my wide. and the rest? i just don't know...
joe
back alley
01-23-2008, 09:19
will, it has been way more than one outing with a 50...more like a lifetime trying to get used to what others see as normal.
i also realize that we are basically talking about framing and that is my problem. while i often like the look of a simpler, less cluttered image - the images i much prefer are the cluttered wide shots of wholesale activity.
probably while i don't get much feedback on my flickr site;)
joe
minoltist7
01-23-2008, 09:30
Interesting opinions.
I had 50mm/1.4 on Minolta SLR, but didn't use it a lot. So, I sold it. Not becouse of "inconvenient" FOV, but becouse I have another lenses which was more interesting for me. For portraits I always used (and continue to use) short tele - like 85mm or 100mm. For street and city photo - 35mm and wider. The only case where I'd take 50mm over 85mm is portrait in the restaurant/bar across the table.
kvanderlaag
01-23-2008, 11:40
I, too, feel more at home with a 35 than I do a 50, which is strange. I'm capable of using the 50, no problem, but my best composed shots seem to come from the 35, and strangely enough, my 85. I find that if I need a compromise and the 35 isn't cutting it, that the 40mm f/2 Summicron-C does a fantastic job of giving me that tiny bit of extra crop I need for proper composition.
I apologize for the OT note, as well, but Joe, are you folks up there still doing the breakfast and shooting thing here and there? I find myself unemployed, and I recall I'd been trying to make it to one before my life took a turn for the busier -- now that I have all this free time for a while, it'd be nice to get myself back into shooting. Just wondering.
shadowfox
01-23-2008, 14:11
will, it has been way more than one outing with a 50...more like a lifetime trying to get used to what others see as normal.
i also realize that we are basically talking about framing and that is my problem. while i often like the look of a simpler, less cluttered image - the images i much prefer are the cluttered wide shots of wholesale activity.
probably while i don't get much feedback on my flickr site;)
joe
Joe, your newest photo on flickr is from Oct 2007... :)
flickrites are like news junkie, they like up-to-date stuff ...
didn't know you have the GRD. How's the shutter lag on that puppy?
back alley
01-23-2008, 14:48
can't be october, i just put some stuff on there saturday night past.
i use the grd in snap mode and don't notice any lag. that grd is a great little camera.
back alley
01-23-2008, 14:51
I, too, feel more at home with a 35 than I do a 50, which is strange. I'm capable of using the 50, no problem, but my best composed shots seem to come from the 35, and strangely enough, my 85. I find that if I need a compromise and the 35 isn't cutting it, that the 40mm f/2 Summicron-C does a fantastic job of giving me that tiny bit of extra crop I need for proper composition.
I apologize for the OT note, as well, but Joe, are you folks up there still doing the breakfast and shooting thing here and there? I find myself unemployed, and I recall I'd been trying to make it to one before my life took a turn for the busier -- now that I have all this free time for a while, it'd be nice to get myself back into shooting. Just wondering.
i tried to organize one this past fall but it seemed doa.
i meet a few guys every saturday morning on whyte ave for breakfast and then usually do a bit of shooting on my own, if you're ever this way let me know and we can do a walkabout.
joe
Brian Sweeney
01-24-2008, 01:47
> the images i much prefer are the cluttered wide shots
HHHmmmm. Yes, very interesting. I see. Likes lots of clutter, does not focus on the main subject....
All of this can be traced back to being potty trained too late in life.
back alley
01-24-2008, 04:40
and i'm easily distracted by primary colours...;)
Brian Sweeney
01-24-2008, 07:49
Yes... yes... I'll be pulling out the Luscher Color Test Charts...
I think we can have you using that 50mm lens as soon as we find the roots of why you do not love yourself...
I think we can have you using that 50mm lens as soon as we find the roots of why you do not love yourself...
Maybe that a 50 reminds Joe of his age.. he would rather like to be 35, or, better yet, 25.. ;)
and i'm easily distracted by primary colours...;)
Off topic ..
Noticed your camera portraits on Flickr, what strap is that on the Bessa?
http://flickr.com/photos/back_alley/466412970/in/photostream/
The Black CV kit looks great.
Palaeoboy
01-24-2008, 08:47
You are definitely not alone Joe. Virtually every camera System I have tried I bought a 50mm standard lens and it rarely got used. Its just not a focal length I warm too that much. I had a Leica M3 that sat idle for years because its widest lens was a 50. Then one day I discovered the 40mm with CL's and CLE's and it brought me back to rangefinders again. With 28mm being another favourite, the 40mm has that better space between them than a 35mm does.
Some people love 50's some love 35's and some of us are in between!
back alley
01-24-2008, 09:17
Off topic ..
Noticed your camera portraits on Flickr, what strap is that on the Bessa?
http://flickr.com/photos/back_alley/466412970/in/photostream/
The Black CV kit looks great.
that's a luigi leicatime strap, custom made a bit longer for the little extra i have up front...;)
joe
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