Digital Hexar RF ?

[Krosya]

I wonder if Sony could jump in here. Since they bought Minolta/Konica and from what I hear can still service Hexar RF, I think they could actually make a nice digital RF camera based on Hexar RF body. They sure have great opportunity to do so. Could be better than Epson and possibly as good as M8 at a lower price. I think they should look into this.
What do you think?

[infrequent]

it sure would be nice but i really doubt they will. sony is just getting serious in the dslr market and i doubt they would like get sidetracked on a niche market. but you are right...they have a great opportunity. so if sony is listening, i hope they surprise us!

[Krosya]

Never know - just think - All the people with the LTM and M mount lenses they collected over the years. Some are very expensive and superbly made. Deliver best results. And now faced with a possibility of being paperweights? I'm surprised that Epson gave up this soon. As Leica M8 being the only current "game" on the market, someone could do very well if they bring a competing model. Be that another Epson, Zeiss Ikon D or (I hope for this one) - Sony HRFd. Whoever moves first and does it right - quality and price - can actually get a good profit. Just look at Cosina - took a chance with bringing RF back, as the only alternative to Leica (currently made for that time), Zeiss followed - many people bought into it. Many great lenses got designed and sold. I think based on all that - Sony or whoever, really should seriously consider this opportunity! But Sony, with the Konica background and their own deep pockets seems like a great company to pull it off.

[gavinlg]

There are rumours of a digital hexar RF concept or test mule made by konica-minolta just before they went down the tube. Apparently there were 2 of them?


I don't think Sony will bother - they're too much of a electronics company and not enough of a camera company. My best hopes lie with zeiss.

[pvdhaar]

I don't think Sony will bother - they're too much of a electronics company and not enough of a camera company. My best hopes lie with zeiss.
Zeiss'es forte is in lenses.

And I see the ZI in that light, a platform to make the lenses sell. It's telltale that Zeiss is now putting so much effort into producing lenses for Nikon (d)SLRs. Even Cosina started doing that recently. I wouldn't be surprised if they both go the Tamron/Tokina route in the end..

[wgerrard]

It isn't a matter of a digital RF's potential profitability (although I would need convincing) so much as it is a choice of where to put the money to get the best return. Sony would need to conclude that putting money into a digital RF would bring in more profit than putting that same amount into more digital DSLR and p&s business.

Add on the cost of bringing out new lenses for the RF.

I think they'd only do it if they expected a digital RF line to become a long-term part of their product mix. I don't see it.

[shadowfox]

All of this depends on one thing. The inevitable lowering of the cost for full frame sensors. Once this is accomplished. There is hope again.

Along the obvious Leica,
Cosina, Zeiss, and Nikon are the companies that I'd put a (small) bet on.

Sony? they are probably still mistified over the success of iPod :D

[wgerrard]

All of this depends on one thing. The inevitable lowering of the cost for full frame sensors.

Absolutely. Companies that can't afford to make their own sensors are dependent on that.

i wonder: If someone made a digital full frame p&s with the attributes of an RF, including interchangeable lenses, but with a big bright electronic viewfinder, who would buy it?

I would.

[gavinlg]

All of this depends on one thing. The inevitable lowering of the cost for full frame sensors. Once this is accomplished. There is hope again.

Along the obvious Leica,
Cosina, Zeiss, and Nikon are the companies that I'd put a (small) bet on.

Sony? they are probably still mistified over the success of iPod :D


:D Thats gold...

[Bobfrance]

All of this depends on one thing. The inevitable lowering of the cost for full frame sensors. Once this is accomplished. There is hope again.

That's what I'm waiting for.

I suppose when they do, the M8 and R-D1 will plummet in value.
(Not trying to be contentious - just a thought)

[IGMeanwell]

I'd be happy if Sony could just make a small model that could accept and meter with my old Rokkor lenses

though it would be interesting to see a digital Hexar as well

[awilder]

I called Sony about getting an accessory diopter eyepiece for the Hexar RF. They reportedly had no parts for the camera so it appears to me that the chances of repais or support for the Hexar RF are nil.

[dazedgonebye]

(Inflamatory comment warning: If you are easily offended, please do not read beyond this point. I don't want this thread to "Go Bad.")

Only problem is...if they built it...they'd likely put "Sony" on the front and I wouldn't be able to hold my nose hard enough to use it.

[anselwannab]

The hope I have for a Sony and a dRF is that Sony will see it as a way to be seen as a serious camera company. My guess is that's why Epson got in on the RD-1, to try to sell printers.

[Frank Petronio]

If the digital Hexar had a live view capability then it would offer much of the utility of a dslr. I wouldn't mind an 10-mp D300 type APS sized sensor, I just think they ought to make some faster wide lenses if they do.

The real issue is why would they want to do it in an M-mount when they won't sell many lenses for it? They would do better to do the digital Haxar AF with a fixed but excellent lens. Better yet, do one with a 28/2.8 and one with a 50/1.4 equivalent and sell us two $1200 cameras instead of one.... I would jump at those.

[infrequent]

i think sony can partner with zeiss for the lenses. they are doing that already for the P&S market. a possible zeiss + sony collab would get people interested.

i really doubt that leica m8 prices would be affected at all. leica is way beyond the value / price rationality. and people who can afford new leicas now, will still buy them even with a price increase.

[anselwannab]

If the digital Hexar had a live view capability then it would offer much of the utility of a dslr. I wouldn't mind an 10-mp D300 type APS sized sensor, I just think they ought to make some faster wide lenses if they do.

The real issue is why would they want to do it in an M-mount when they won't sell many lenses for it? They would do better to do the digital Haxar AF with a fixed but excellent lens. Better yet, do one with a 28/2.8 and one with a 50/1.4 equivalent and sell us two $1200 cameras instead of one.... I would jump at those.

I think you nailed it on the head about the lenses. To make it economically viable, you have to sell lenses. But with out the M mount, you face an up hill battle for adoption. If it were my millions, I'd make the body capable of using M-mount lenses, but if you upgrade to the dM or MII mount, you get AF, or focus confirmation, better Flash photography, and AE exposure mode.

Like Frank said, I think this is all possible with a D300 sensor. Bring that out and then 18months later bring out a FF version.

[Gabriel M.A.]

Only problem is...if they built it...they'd likely put "Sony" on the front and I wouldn't be able to hold my nose hard enough to use it.
Oh, great, did Sony already buy a food company? That's all they have left, isn't it?

Sony popcorn; that's got to be it. Makes sense: the DVD (R.I.P. format) player, HD TV, speakers and Sony-label Soundtrack CD. All you need is the Sony popcorn.

[wgerrard]

Trouble is, if you make it with an M-mount, you might not sell many lenses at all. But, if you make it with you own mount and lenses, you might not sell that many camera bodies.

[anselwannab]

Trouble is, if you make it with an M-mount, you might not sell many lenses at all. But, if you make it with you own mount and lenses, you might not sell that many camera bodies.

I think that is why you have go the route of the Nikon F mount, not Canon EOS. You have to add some sugar to make people want to 'upgrade' to the new lenses. Some backwards compatibility, but not all the way.

I personally think that if they came out with an a D300 class sensor and at the same time came out with a 22/1.4, a 32/1.2 and a 55/1.2 that where smaller b/c of the smaller image circle, you'd have a 35/50/90 combo. Add lenses from there.

[wgerrard]

To tell the truth, I'd guess it will be a long wait before anyone other than Leica brings out a digital RF. Leica is the only company that has a reason to be really committed to rangefinders. If for no other reason than to hedge their bets on film, they need to stay in the digital game. Cosina had other irons in the fire.

Improvements in digital technology may produce a p&s camera with the size of a rangefinder, an electronic viewfinder with the size, clarity and brightness of a rangefinder, and a built-in zoom with optical quality matching old fashioned primes. I know I'd like one.

[dazedgonebye]

Funny thing to say, SONY continues to have the best video equipment for professionals made. SONY has been eclipsed in the audio world by Apple, of course but...

I would not count SONY out, they bought Minolta for a reason, the lens mount. But an RF seems unlikely.

SONY is not a nostalgic company, like Nikon or Canon.

I've just had lots of bad experiences with Sony consumer products and they've got a history of what some people would call "anti-consumer" practices.
In truth, if they produced something as described here, I'd be very interested.

[breathstealer]

I don't see either Cosina or Zeiss doing the whole digital thing without a partner to provide electronics, like Epson with the RD-1.

So what about a Cosina body with Zeiss lenses and Sony sensor/branding? That seems vaguely likely (which isn't saying much, considering how unlikely all this DRF talk is)

[rxmd]

SONY is not a nostalgic company, like Nikon or Canon.
To be honest Canon isn't particularly nostalgic either, and Nikon's nostalgia hasn't really been paying off in the end from what I hear. Leica is nostalgic, but then nostalgia is their business model.

There won't be any other digital RFs in the near future, within a two- or three-year timeframe at least. No R-D2, no digital Zeiss Ikon, no digital Hexar. It's a niche market, where everyone wants lots of features (full frame etc.), while the low-end customers don't have a lot of money, and the high-end customers have already got M8s. It's not worth it at present. Wait until full-frame sensors become commodified. When the M9 is there in 2010 or so for $7000, some people can stick Noctiluxes in front of them and walk about with $13.000 camera/body combinations, and companies might find that the time is right for a $3000 digital Zeiss Ikon for all the other people, if the sensors are cheap enough by then.

Philipp

[rxmd]

It does sound like a bit of a waste of money, but then it's not my money being wasted and Nikon is free to choose what to do with their money.

Regarding the point of reissue models, well I don't really understand it either - if you want to use a classic you can always use the original, it's not like they're particularly rare or something. Of course there are now many mintish S3s and SPs around that gather dust in collectors' glass cupboards, but that's hardly a market a camera company can sensibly cater to. I just can't figure out what the big deal is.

[dazedgonebye]

To be honest Canon isn't particularly nostalgic either, and Nikon's nostalgia hasn't really been paying off in the end from what I hear. Leica is nostalgic, but then nostalgia is their business model.

There won't be any other digital RFs in the near future, within a two- or three-year timeframe at least. No R-D2, no digital Zeiss Ikon, no digital Hexar. It's a niche market, where everyone wants lots of features (full frame etc.), while the low-end customers don't have a lot of money, and the high-end customers have already got M8s. It's not worth it at present. Wait until full-frame sensors become commodified. When the M9 is there in 2010 or so for $7000, some people can stick Noctiluxes in front of them and walk about with $13.000 camera/body combinations, and companies might find that the time is right for a $3000 digital Zeiss Ikon for all the other people, if the sensors are cheap enough by then.

Philipp

Looks like the ugly truth to me.

[shadowfox]

To be honest Canon isn't particularly nostalgic either, and Nikon's nostalgia hasn't really been paying off in the end from what I hear. Leica is nostalgic, but then nostalgia is their business model.

There won't be any other digital RFs in the near future, within a two- or three-year timeframe at least. No R-D2, no digital Zeiss Ikon, no digital Hexar. It's a niche market, where everyone wants lots of features (full frame etc.), while the low-end customers don't have a lot of money, and the high-end customers have already got M8s. It's not worth it at present. Wait until full-frame sensors become commodified. When the M9 is there in 2010 or so for $7000, some people can stick Noctiluxes in front of them and walk about with $13.000 camera/body combinations, and companies might find that the time is right for a $3000 digital Zeiss Ikon for all the other people, if the sensors are cheap enough by then.

Philipp

Now, now, don't ruin it for the dreamers among us :)

Nikon and Cosina has proven that when ideals are met with determination, something good can come out.

I am convinced of one thing, we can't predict human behaviors. In general yes, but splinter groups with money always surprises us. Let's just hope that there are some out there who values the things that we value and actually have the resource to pull it off.