Kiev- unlucky cameras? (Or I'll just stick to FED or Zorki)

[ZorkiKat]

Bad fengshui? Cursed? what?

I never had good luck in keeping my Kiev RF in good working condition. Even when they are hardly used. I give them a short 'work out' every few weeks just to keep their shutters running. In the last 6 months, I had three Kiev RF break their shutter straps. That's now 6 broken Kiev (vintages didn't apply here- the 80's versions just broke sooner). I've only 2 working ones left.

The shutters broke when the cameras were being used for shooting. That seems to be the pattern with these cameras were in use. I would never trust a Kiev again.

My FED and Zorki have proven to be extremely reliable in this respect. And easier to fix too, given the simpler shutter mechanism and the easy to substitute shutter straps and blinds.

Jay

[mike goldberg]

Oh my, I'm sorry to hear this. I only had one Kiev, and sold it because of difficulty in changing speeds. The "lift-turn-drop into slot" action, did NOT work well in the direction of higher speeds. And yes, it was advanced and cocked every time.

As for Zorki, the finder and patch are excellent, however I found that lifting & turning that tiny shutter speed dial, murder on my fingers. A Fed-2c that was CLA'd by Oleg is a favorite shooter, with a very "Barnack-like" feel. BTW... with thanks to Jay, wolves3012 & spyderman for your support in fine-tuning RF adjustment in my Fed-2c. It was easy ;-)

Ciao
Mike

[ruben]

Hi Zorkikat,

I have a practical proposal. providede you can fix and overhaul a Fed 2, I will do the same for your Kiev.

If it is ok, in principle, we can continue talking by PM

Cheers,
Ruben

[ZorkiKat]

Hi Zorkikat,

I have a practical proposal. providede you can fix and overhaul a Fed 2, I will do the same for your Kiev.

If it is ok, in principle, we can continue talking by PM

Cheers,
Ruben


Thanks Ruben for the offer. But I do not see now the relevance of fixing any broken Kiev, given the experience I've had with them.

I got my first Kiev (model 4aM, 1984 vintage) in 1989. It had dials which were heavy and extremely difficult to set. It made very wide frame spacing during the short time it worked. The camera worked long enough only to expose two rolls.

It was a dozen years before I even considered getting one again. I got another one, a 1972 Kiev 4 which I thought worked. It didn't advance film when I got it. It actually went back to the Ukraine to be fixed, but the repairist got only as fixing the shutter, but not the film advance. I was sent another camera as compensation. I was able to resolve the film advance problem with the the '72 Kiev, and the replacement (a 1976 K4) soon broke its straps.

Then, I got another Kiev 4, another from 1976. It looked so new and fresh. But its rangefinder could not be calibrated to focus at 1 mtr. This too, soon broke its straps. I am using the Maizenberg book as reference for repairs.

I thought I hit it right when I got a 1952 K-2, 3 more K-4 from 1958, 1962, and 1968, and a 1980 K-4a. The older Kiev really had a smoother and lighter "feel" in them. I hardly used these cameras. And yet, they broke their straps just the same, usually when they were being used for shooting. First to go was the 1980 K-4a. The 1952 K-2 came next. The 1968 snapped while film was being loaded in it. And the 1972 K-4 mentioned above
broke its straps 3 days ago.

That leaves me with just two working Kiev. 6 broken ones which didn't even see much action. I've run perhaps an average of 3 rolls on each since I got them. In contrast, my Zorki-1 and FED-1 saw more action and rough use. None of these got their shutters broken. They always delivered the goods.

And BTW, what ills your FED-2?

Jay

[wolves3012]

Jay,

Although I've never done it, I don't think ribbon replacement is worse than (say) curtains in a FED or Zorki, something which you obviously have the skills to do. I think you have some bad luck with your Kievs, though. Although hardly a fair comparison, I can tell you that the Kiev 4 I inherited from my father did see considerable use in its early days and it didn't break the ribbons. I've only recently got my 4a so it's a bit early to say on reliability. That said, I've re-lubed it, so it runs quite smoothly and hopefully they'll last.

[ruben]

hi ZORKIKAT,

The most important ill of my two feds, is that I don't have the patience to start learning their quirks from the begining. With each new Kiev I fix I gain experience and dexterousity. For the Feds, I am lazy.

As for your Kievs, let my try to seduce you. The "deal" I am, or was, to detail via PM, was not just each of us do "a fix" but a full overhaul incl film testing. And not only a full overhaul, but each of us doing our best ever in every direction to provide the other with the best camera each of us is able to provide.

And all these within a framework of utmost friendship and good will.

Let life the opportunity to surprise you. What do you have to loose beyond free time and a bit of money for mailing and customs ?

Cheers,
Ruben

[Jocko]

I only had one Kiev, and sold it because of difficulty in changing speeds. The "lift-turn-drop into slot" action, did NOT work well in the direction of higher speeds.

Now he tells me! :D

Hi Ruben,
That's a most interesting idea you have here. It's not alltogether unlike a recent offer you made with another group which was most regrettably missunderstood.

I made an interesting offer once, regrettably misunderstood by the Judge. And incidentally, Ruben, the FED 2 has no quirks - it just works :)

Cheers, Ian

[zhang xk]

I see the point. A camera mechnaic is interested in the design of the camera, while a photographer wants the most reliable camera. A Kiev or a Contax interests me for their complex design over Zorki or Leica which could be misunderstood that I prefer Kiev (Contax)to Zorki(Leica).
I am not saying a Kiev is an unreliable camera. Both type could last many years. It amuses me that with many times of production cost, ZI offered a product that performs about the same as the other.:-) hehehe.

[zhang xk]

Hi Ian,

If one looks a Fed-2 a few more times, he may discover that the Fed-2 is the most elegant and practical design of all interchangeable rangefinder cameras.

I just find out the the Chinese girl with a camera is very nice after I looked the picture again closely.:-)

Cheers,

Zhang

[Jocko]

Hi Ian,

If one looks a Fed-2 a few more times, he may discover that the Fed-2 is the most elegant and practical design of all interchangeable rangefinder cameras.

I just find out the the Chinese girl with a camera is very nice after I looked the picture again closely.:-)

Hallo Zhang!
I naturally agree on both points! Indeed, I think it's interesting to compare the FED 2 with the contemporary Ilford Witness, a very exclusive British Leica "copy" which is often regarded as one off the most beautiful cameras ever made - http://website.lineone.net/~mauricefisher/Witness.html

I have always felt that the designers of both cameras were working on a very similar path - but in the case of the FED created a robust, low-cost masterpiece, in which design and function are perfectly matched.

With regard to the CLA issue, raised by Sitemistic, I have to say that avoiding maintenance on any old camera is always a complete false economy, . But, whilst the Kiev has exerted a constant fascination for more than 20 years, my experience is rather similar to Jay's and I believe the Leica and its derivatives are inherently more reliable due to mechanical simplicity and a greater resistance to mishandling. The last point seems to me particularly important. I strongly suspect that many Kiev troubles are ultimately due to the user (myself very definitely included) treating the camera as if it were a more conventional design.

Cheers, Ian

[ZorkiKat]

Jay,

Although I've never done it, I don't think ribbon replacement is worse than (say) curtains in a FED or Zorki, something which you obviously have the skills to do. I think you have some bad luck with your Kievs, though. Although hardly a fair comparison, I can tell you that the Kiev 4 I inherited from my father did see considerable use in its early days and it didn't break the ribbons. I've only recently got my 4a so it's a bit early to say on reliability. That said, I've re-lubed it, so it runs quite smoothly and hopefully they'll last.

Hi wolves

I've actually attempted strap replacement a few times. None successful due mostly to improper ribbon replacement material. I've used both Maizenberg's instructions and Rick Oleson's diagrams. Rick was kind enough to email me a few more instructions which aren't on his site.

Repairing the shutters in a FED or Zorki or even Zenit (at least those without slow speed mechanisms) I think is far easier. :)

Thanks to Rick, too, I was able to repair a Contax IIa whose shutter cord broke. The CIIa used cords instead of ribbons. The shutter mechanism is about the same, but not quite. I used silk surgical thread for the cord material replacement. The Contax IIa repair was simpler than any that I've done on a Kiev. One Contax IIa belonging to a friend is currently here for a similar repair work.

As it is, I see that it's the strap replacement material which makes makes repair impossible. I may perhaps buy a few metres of the material from alexphoto or else try one of the several 3mm ribbons I have bought for this purpose. There's still a 30 metre roll of ribbon material which I haven't tried yet. Or perhaps even get a replacement curtain for my Kiev 2 whose original blinds are already deformed.

Jay

[ZorkiKat]

hi ZORKIKAT,

The most important ill of my two feds, is that I don't have the patience to start learning their quirks from the begining. With each new Kiev I fix I gain experience and dexterousity. For the Feds, and I am lazy.

As for your Kievs, let my try to seduce you. The "deal" I am, or was, to detail via PM, was not just each of us do "a fix" but a full overhaul incl film testing. And not only a full overhaul, but each of us doing our best ever in every direction to provide the other with the best camera each of us is able to provide.

And all these within a framework of utmost friendship and good will.

Let life the opportunity to surprise you. What do you have to loose beyond free time and a bit of money for mailing and customs ?

Cheers,
Ruben

Hi Ruben

I think I should retain these Kiev in their current states. I see me doing actual work on their shutters (again) sometime, but not too soon. Perhaps when I'm done with the shutters of a clutch of broken FED-1 I bought (5 done, three to go), and a Contax IIa sent here last Christmas, there'd be opportunities for fixing the Kievs. :)

As for the FED-2, I don't see what sort of difficult quirks it could have. It has a lot in common with the Kiev, so a Kiev user should be able to use it as easily. Its long-base RF was inspired by the Contax/Kiev. Ditto with backs which slide off, knob winding, lift-and-set shutter dials, and combined-RF/VF viewing. Both cameras synch at 1/25 (30), but the FED-2 won't fire the flash when the shutter is wound. The only major difference between the two is that the FED-2's horizontal cloth shutter lacks 1/1000 and the slow speeds.

You can PM me about the FED or Zorki if you have some technical concerns about their operation. :)

Jay

[fidget]

My Kievs have me beat. The few that I have played with had light leak issues and shutter problems needing a simple CLA (about all I can do on these). After getting these little jobs sorted I'm left with frame spacing problems which seem difficult to correct.
This year I'm going to pass them on, sell up my Kiev kit and keep on with the Zorki/Fed rfs. It's not because I don't like to use them, just that I have only so much time to devote to fixing and testing which I feel is more rewarded in the FED/Zorki range. (Plus my "discovery" of vintage Voigtlanders has further split my time.....).


Dave...

[40oz]

I don't know what you guys are paying for your cameras, but that might explain the problems you are having.

[fidget]

I don't know what you guys are paying for your cameras, but that might explain the problems you are having.

That's a good point!
When buying FED/Zorki, I'm pleased when I can get a really good condition rig that hasn't been messed with. This tends to mean that those I find most appealing have probably never worked properly and have spent most of their life stored.
As I am happy to work on these and give them the CLA that they need, I can end up with a bargain.
This strategy does not work well with Kievs as I can't be confident that I can fix them, so not buying from a seller who has had them CLA'd is a risk for me that's not paid off.

Dave......

Buy yours CLA'd +G'tee.

[vrgard]

Wow, I'm surprised to read of everyone's Kiev woes. I have an early 1960's Kiev 4A and an early 1980's Kiev 4AM and neither have given me any trouble whatsoever. Don't mean to boast or question anyone else's experiences. I guess I've just been lucky and still find my Kievs to be very nice cameras.

-Randy

[Spyderman]

Hi Jay,

I think your experience with Kievs must had been just bad luck. Kievs can be very reliable just as Ruben says.

The most important aspects of good working Kiev are:
- clean shutter mechanisms
- lubed advance gears
- minimum shutter tension

Failing to provide these conditions can cause the ribbons to break - because you are putting too much stress on them.

Even before I knew much about Kievs I had one dirty, dry and with high shutter tension. The ribbons broke after a couple shots...

The mechanisms must be clean - otherwise you're putting too much stress on the gears and ribbons.

Advance gears must be lubed - otherwise the advancing and shutter cocking is very rough.

Shutter spring tension must be as low as possible - otherwise it's causing stress on the ribbons and all gears.

All these are a "MUST".

But when you finally have a cleaned, lubed and low-tensioned Kiev, it's a great reliable camera. I believe even you can change your opinion on Kievs ;)


PS: do buy the ribbon material from alex-photo. Only original type of ribbon can work in Kiev's shutter.

[Dogman]

I've been lucky with Kievs--I have four and they all work fine. I didn't really expect them to work so well--I was facinated by the Contax/Kiev history and just wanted one for the conversation value. Funny how habit forming they've become and how much I enjoy shooting with them.

[ruben]

Hi Jay,

........
But when you finally have a cleaned, lubed and low-tensioned Kiev, it's a great reliable camera. I believe even you can change your opinion on Kievs ;)
.............


I am banging my pair of Kievs 4AM for four months already, day after day after day, and they only become sweeter and sweeter as grease expands and parts start to harmonize with each other. We are talking here about the cheapest Kiev !

The question Spyderman, is who is the seller who is going to perform the great CLA for sitemistic, and the answer is simple: no one. Not even Fedka. This is a problem when buying a Kiev.

Why no one is going to do the job nowadays ? Because, by my very rough estimation, a comprehensive job for an average eBay Kiev, needs some 50 neto hours to make them back "the jolie of England". 50 hours at $10 per hour = $500...

Hence that the $50 camera you are buying from eBay is just a 10th from what a Kiev can really be.

Any camera, including an old camera, is a sort of machine. A car too is a machine. You can buy a car from 20 to 40 years ago for penauts, with the seller guaranteing "the car travels". Fine the car "travels" indeed - yet how? how long ? What is the feeling when traveling with it?

But if you want to make a travel from coast to coast, or have this old car rendering its best, giving you its best performance, the car must be given a lot of restaurantion work. You can say, with justice, that for all the money the restauraton costs, better you buy a new one. That's fine too. But if you buy that old car you admire and have expectations it will work as new without paying for the restauration, or doing it yourself, there is no much sense to blame either the seller or the car brand. You have got what your have paid for.

On the other hand, owning and driving a very old car at its best, it is a luxury, only very rich folks can afford, or those with the knowledge hot to restaurate it themselves.
....

Now I have spoken about 50 hours/$500. I am very much aware that Mr Scherer and Mark Hama price lower prices than that, to work a Contax or a Yashica Lynx 14. Why is that ? I can only speculate.

My first suspiction is that without lowering the great quality of their work they have found techniques to shorten the total time of the process. My second suspiction is that they work at work pace, not like me at will. And my third suspiction, that I have repeated time and again, is that in order to survive in the offer and demmand market, they are underpricing their work.

Owning and using an old machine, is much of a luxury. Knowing its ribbs - a great convenience for the folk lacking the means to afford new expensive high quality cameras.
...

Now, kindly let me go for my last comarizon: the cute Canonet GIII. It sells at ebay by an average of $70. I own some 5 of them, so I can speak about a relative experience in purchasing them.

How many of them came without any problem ? None. How many of them do "travel", as like the example of the car ? 3, or 4 if we show great symphaty for the fourth example.

I am not knowledgeable of its mechanics or electronics, therefore the improvements I made were rather minimal. But we have among us a member highly knowledgeable of its ribbs: DMR.

How much is worth DMR's own Canonet ? I assume several hundred dollars.

Cheers,
Ruben

[M. Valdemar]

repair@camera-care.com

Steve Serota has been doing a lot of work for me lately, including an excellent Canon 0.95 conversion, and he repaired a Hasselblad for me. I've sent him a lot of work.

His work is fast and meticulous.

He's been advertising complete Kiev and Contax overhauls on eBay for $119 and he's very communicative and reliable.

http://cgi.ebay.com/HASSELBLAD-500-C-C-M-501C-503-CX-CXi-CW-REPAIR-OVERHAUL_W0QQitemZ290193400218


I also know the guy who Fedka uses for repair. He's a Russian guy who's been fixing cameras a long time. He's good too, but I feel that he tends to quickly dissemble the cameras he gets and just fixes the problem without going over everything, cleaning it up, etc. Steve Serota takes more time and disassembles the cameras, but also checks everything, cleans parts, glass and does a more complete overhaul.

I've also used DAG who did an excellent job for me aligning the rangefinder of an Epson R-D1, but he takes much longer to finish jobs.

Steve Serota and repairs through Fedka are much faster.

I don't know if I buy this "Henry Scherer" song and dance. I'm sure he's good but he might be too much like a boutique "carriage trade" guy who caters to nut cases.

[Igor.Burshteyn]

Ruben, I am with you on this one. My perception of Kiev is as a high end camera in FSU kingdom. Kievs always were kind of elite cameras in USSR, partially due to Contax heritage, but partially due to their real merits. In 35mm format many professionals in USSR preferred kievs to other FSU cameras. I am biased - my grandpa was pro, his kiev still belongs to the family, and one day I willl have it CLAd (it has issue with rangefinder coupling to the lens after 3m). I have another pawnshop $20 kiev that works real good (after I figured out how to load it properly), though looks like it was through many wars and for sure never was CLAd. Bottom line - I appreciate kievs, and have memorable images shot with mine in family album.

[ruben]

This thread will not end without Zhang telling us about the Kiev 4 and Mao's wife (I suspect here was the begining of "The Gang Of The Four")

:)

[LOOP]

My experience with these cameras is that the old ones from between 1950 and 1957 are the best:o :o .The late Fed 5 and Fed 4, last Kiev's from the seventies are not as reliable !!:eek:

[M. Valdemar]

When you get your first ten or twenty billion, you can start collecting fighter planes:

http://www.airportjournals.com/Display.cfm?varID=0612005


Hi Igor, I agree with you and Ruben also. To me it's like maintaining a vintage car or motor-cycle, it's a real pleasure to tinker with a motor and drive it with pride.

[zhang xk]

This thread will not end without Zhang telling us about the Kiev 4 and Mao's wife

:)

Dear Ruben,

This time it was not his wife, but hismself was given a Kiev 4 as a state gift from one of the Soviet leaders. altough he passed the gift to his personal cook, it was still a state gift.:) When I heard the story in one of the pawnshops, I know I bought a high-end camera for $25, my very 1st Soviet camera, a mint 1965 Kiev 4.:D Then I examined the camera on spot and wondered why such a fine camera was sold so cheap? I even found the unique ox urine tanned leather smell quite pleasant since then.:bang:

[Ducky]

I just shot my first roll through a 4am from Fedka with no problems. A sweet sound and proper frame spacing. Let's hope it stays that way.

[giovatony]

I think I spoke too soon about the smoothness of my Kiev 4AM. After just 3 rolls of film it bit the dust. The shutter doesn`t work anymore and I fear ther straps are broken. The rangefinder doesn`t work anymore either.
I simply removed the front plate, then the lens mount, turned the focussing wheel maybe a little to far and then felt and sounded like the shutter breaking. I looked and found the shutter was partly closed but recocking it didn`t do anything. It just winds and winds without cocking.
To be honest I am not going to blame the camera for this as I probably should not have attempted to disassemble it for no reason.
I think my next step is to order a CLA`d 4A from Yuri at Fedka.
I`m willing to give the Kiev another try as I now have a parts camera.
John

[shadowfox]

Nah, let's downplay the Kiev's some more, keeps the price down for when mine starts having problems ;)

Btw, looks like I'm in the minority who has a perfectly functioning Kiev 4A. When it finally breaks down, I have Ruben's email in my contact list :D

[kuzano]

Hi Igor, I agree with you and Ruben also. To me it's like maintaining a vintage car or motor-cycle, it's a real pleasure to tinker with a motor and drive it with pride.

The vintage car analogy. However, once when trying to get my Norton Commando dialed in and running right, the engine backfired and the kickstart threw me off the bike. I had to go to the hospital emergency room to have my leg X-ray'd and examined.

Is there any chance that my Kiev will do bodily harm to me?

[ruben]

The vintage car analogy. However, once when trying to get my Norton Commando dialed in and running right, the engine backfired and the kickstart threw me off the bike. I had to go to the hospital emergency room to have my leg X-ray'd and examined.

Is there any chance that my Kiev will do bodily harm to me?


Yes there is, but unlike your Norton, a femme fatale like the Kiev may send you straight to the electric chair. See

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52212


Cheers,
Ruben

[Spyderman]

Pitxu - do you have an MZ motorbike ? I think they were made in Czechoslovakia (unless there is another MZ factory in East Germany of which I don't know).

[giovatony]

The Czeck CZ was a popular enduro bike here in the early 70`s when I was riding a Kawasaki Big Horn F9. The 48th International 6 day trials were held here in 1973 in the nearby town of Dalton Massachusetts. I was there every day.(watching the races)
John

[jdos2]

I've had > 10 Kievs.

I now have two working Kievs, and lots of spare parts. It feels funny throwing a camera out, but not so much the Kiev.

I really like the look from the lenses that fit on them, and the ones that work, well... ONE is nice. The other is serviceable.

[wolves3012]

Pitxu - do you have an MZ motorbike ? They were made in Czechoslovakia (unless there is another MZ factory in East Germany of which I don't know). MZ stands for Moravská Zbrojovka (something like "Moravian gun factory").
Spyderman,

Unless I have my history wrong, MZ was east german and CZ czechoslovakian (spelling?). I used to own a CZ, they were made in Strakonice (spelling again?). Always loved the simplicity of them, I'm tempted to get an MZ TS250 myself...something of a change from the current Suzuki Bandit though!

[ruben]

I've had > 10 Kievs.

I now have two working Kievs, and lots of spare parts. It feels funny throwing a camera out, but not so much the Kiev.

I really like the look from the lenses that fit on them, and the ones that work, well... ONE is nice. The other is serviceable.

You will do best by carefully keeping every non-working Kiev and/or parts. By the time you do away with them, you may gain some space at home and nothing more.

But by keeping all of it, the day may come in which your restoration capacities may surprisingly grow, with or without additional explanatory help.

The Kievs, more than anything, are about potential. Damaged Kievs never age with time. Save this potential even if by now you are not clear what for.

Cheers,
Ruben

[Spyderman]

Again regarding the motorbikes: you were right - ČZ was the brand made in Czechoslovakia. MZ bikes were indeed made in Germany. My mistake. :bang: :bang:

[ZorkiKat]

:angel: I've had > 10 Kievs.

I now have two working Kievs, and lots of spare parts. It feels funny throwing a camera out, but not so much the Kiev.

I really like the look from the lenses that fit on them, and the ones that work, well... ONE is nice. The other is serviceable.


I've still 8, only 2 working. Make that 9 if the scrapped donor body is included.
I find the camera too complicated - for repair, maintainance, or even downright use. Too complicated to be relied upon for "real work".

Since comparisons with cars and bikes have already been made in this thread, I would compare a Zorki-1 or FED-1 to a Volkswagen. Reliable, even after all these years. Possible to fix, and once fixed, can go on and on. Hard to swat, and will keep on buzzing. That's probably why my Zorki/FED to Kiev ratio is almost 10:1. :D

In use, I've never been able to shoot as quick with the Kiev as I could with the FED or Zorki. I've never missed a shot with the Barnack types. Even with their
separate VF/RF eyepieces. So I may not miss the Kiev so much- except for the same reason as you do- the "look" from the lenses, particularly the Helios 103. I never found the Kiev an easy tool to use for street and candid photography- that's just me. :angel:

Jay

[jdos2]

I STILL wish the Kievs I have worked well enough to encourage me to use 'em.

They don't, and I don't, sadly enough.

I saved most of the bodies to be sacrificed in the "Contax/Kiev to M-Mount Adapter," but recently sold off several of the lenses. Time to go through and get rid of the bodies, I think...

[wolves3012]

Since comparisons with cars and bikes have already been made in this thread, I would compare a Zorki-1 or FED-1 to a Volkswagen. Reliable, even after all these years. Possible to fix, and once fixed, can go on and on. Hard to swat, and will keep on buzzing. That's probably why my Zorki/FED to Kiev ratio is almost 10:1. :D

In use, I've never been able to shoot as quick with the Kiev as I could with the FED or Zorki. I've never missed a shot with the Barnack types. Even with their
separate VF/RF eyepieces. So I may not miss the Kiev so much- except for the same reason as you do- the "look" from the lenses, particularly the Helios 103. I never found the Kiev an easy tool to use for street and candid photography- that's just me. :angel:

Jay
Jay,

If you're comparing the Zorki/FED to the VW Beetle, I'm not sure I'd agree. I used to own one and there isn't much I haven't done on them. Unlike the Zorki/FED, the Beetle was littered with design faults and not half as reliable as the reputation they claimed. If you want a motoring analogy, try the Citroen 2CV engine - simple (but not crude) and indestructible, given basic servicing. Oh, and you don't have to take the car off the engine to remove it either, you take the engine out of the car - easily!

I'm with you on the Kiev's usability. I, too, find them a cumbersome camera but I do like them all the same. Yes, they're complex but they have a certain charm for that very reason. I'm not keen to take one apart either!

[santino]

I'm with you too. As former owner of 6 Kievs and 2 Contax' IIa I'm kinda dissapointed. Non of them (Kievs) worked they way they should, CLA and small repairs held them alive but all broke one day. Now I've got several fine Zeiss lenses plus FSU stuff and no camera to mount on :D
I like the Kievs anyways, I just don't rely on them.

[ruben]

Hi Zorki/Fed folks,

This thread is making me feel bad and worse. I cannot stand seeing you suffering so much with your undesired Kievs, or hearing broken ribbons crying from your mouths as if your Kievs were pale shadows from the other world.

Therefore,
I begg you for your own sake,
release yourselves from that burden!
Stop carrying the cross of martyrdom.
Take action without delay !
Mail me those crippled bodies and I will give them warm shelter.

Cheers,
Ruben

17/b Habanai St
Jerusalem 96264
Israel

[giovatony]

I recently received a Kiev 4A that was just CLA`d from Yuri at (Fedka) . It seems to be just fine with no problems so far at 2 rolls put thru and developed.
Hopefully it will keep going strong . I think it might be my last Kiev regardless.
To me the Kiev`s feel tinney and hollow and cheaply made , not the solid quality feel of my Zorki`s or Fed.
That said , I am getting good images from the Kiev 4A and having fun with it.
John

[TVphotog]

I STILL wish the Kievs I have worked well enough to encourage me to use 'em.

They don't, and I don't, sadly enough.

I saved most of the bodies to be sacrificed in the "Contax/Kiev to M-Mount Adapter," but recently sold off several of the lenses. Time to go through and get rid of the bodies, I think...


As ruben said, don't give up on the Kievs just yet. It took me 4 tries and I finally got one that worked great. An early 70s 4A of all things. The 50s Kiev 2 that I have is alright, but I think the shutter is too tight. You are more than welcome to PM me and discuss getting some of yours running right. The only thing it will cost you is postage. I figure that we could get at least two running bodies out of your graveyard. If you are interested PM me and we can start figuring out which would be the best canidates. Again, no cost to you except postage. I just love tinkering with these cameras.

[zhang xk]

IMO, A Kiev or a Contax is no more difficult to service than a Zorki or Fed. They have self contained sub-assembly components. I don't think I have seen Ruben's detailed procedure for Kiev repairs. Do you?

[Spider67]

is necessary. This is pretty much the reason why I considered converting a Zorki 4's threadmount into a Kiev bayonet.

Hi Ruben,
Now that's a nice try!:angel: But being somewhat necrophiliac I'll keep mine:)

My working Kiev is a Kiev 5 my other two Kiev do have some problems.

[chojna]

Can you please give any details of how to convert a Zorki mount into a Kiev mount ?

thank you

[ruben]

....Hi Ruben,
Now that's a nice try!:angel: But being somewhat necrophiliac I'll keep mine:)
.


Hi Spider,
Yours is not a bad try as well. So when you do collect to much corpses, you know what to do.

The issue is that not all the posters are necophiliac, but rather simply frustrated.

And I do agree with them that if they persist in not learning the Kiev innards, frustration will only grow. So Save Your Souls, send me those crappy cameras you wish to smash into the wall.

Cheers,
Ruben

[santino]

Ruben, I'll keep your offer in mind. :)

[ruben]

Ruben, I'll keep your offer in mind. :)

Take care about what you write. I may even be sending you monthly reminders.

:)

Cheers,
Ruben

PS
Now, in a serious tone, just think about the empty place you may gain, the worries you will spare, and the GAS horizons it may inspire....

[ruben]

IMO, A Kiev or a Contax is no more difficult to service than a Zorki or Fed. They have self contained sub-assembly components. I don't think I have seen Ruben's detailed procedure for Kiev repairs. Do you?

It is all about tactics Zhang.

First I may collect all possible cameras from the frustrated minds.

Afterwards, I may explain the proceedings.

Cheers,
Ruben

[Brian Sweeney]

> Can you please give any details of how to convert a Zorki mount into a Kiev mount ?

It's called a Nikon RF. That is essentially what Nikon decided in 1946, put a Leica style shutter into a Contax style body. Problem is, they built the RF to the Leica 51.6mm standard. So what you do is move the Lens Mount out 0.5mm and calibrate the RF on the Nikon to work with FSU lenses, OR shim the FSU lenses to work with the Nikon. I've done both.

Alternately, you can buy a Contax to LTM adapter on Ebay for ~$180. Want to see a picture of a Zorki 3M with a Menopta 53/1.8 on it?

Now- the other way would require a CNC machine. I have one of those at work... a VM-17...

[Peter_Jones]

I find my Kiev a joy to use, and when I have time to address the shutter ribbon/light leaks I will enjoy working on it (just like the Landrovers and Triumph motorcycles I have owned) and improving it. Next step is a Jupiter 12 :)

[chojna]

> Can you please give any details of how to convert a Zorki mount into a Kiev mount ?

It's called a Nikon RF. That is essentially what Nikon decided in 1946, put a Leica style shutter into a Contax style body. Problem is, they built the RF to the Leica 51.6mm standard. So what you do is move the Lens Mount out 0.5mm and calibrate the RF on the Nikon to work with FSU lenses, OR shim the FSU lenses to work with the Nikon. I've done both.

Alternately, you can buy a Contax to LTM adapter on Ebay for ~$180. Want to see a picture of a Zorki 3M with a Menopta 53/1.8 on it?

Now- the other way would require a CNC machine. I have one of those at work... a VM-17...


Yes can I please see a picture

[Brian Sweeney]

I'll get one up. I bought the Contax to Leica Thread Mount adapter, and it works quite well.

[jdos2]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Adapter-for-Leica-M-Body-to-Contax-RF-Lenses-New_W0QQitemZ190189516917QQihZ009QQcategoryZ30028Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Brian Sweeney]

Sadly, the Contax to LTM adapter gets caught by the wedge-shaped RF pickup of the Zorki 3M. The threads have a cutout for a stop for close/distance focus. The wheel of the Leica and Canon cameras go over it, and come to rest on the opening.

This is the second lens/adapter that got hung up this week by that wedge pickup. I modified an Industar-69 28mm F2.8 to focus to infinity on a Leica. It is made for the Chaika, a ha;lf-frame camera with a 39mm thread mount but a different flange distance. On the back of the lens mount there are two holes, could not figure out what they did. They are there to prevent the lens from being screwed onto a Zorki camera. The back-focus is different for the I-69, or at least it used to be different on mine. I filed the inner stop of the mount down so that the helicle could move in an extra millimeter or two. Then set the distance scale to indicate the correct focus. Again, goes right onto the Leica and Canon. I'll be testing it soon. Vigenttes wide-open, but looks okay stopped down.

[Tair-11A]

I have 3 Kievs 3A, 4A, 4AM - they work perfectly! http://forum.oboz.ua/images/smiles/wink.gif Probably 3A need some little service.

For changing shutter speed look here: http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/changing%20shutter%20speeds.html

[rxmd]

I wonder if one couldn't design a RF pickup alternative for FSU cameras with an eccentric wheel as an add-on item to replace the wedge.

[ErnestoJL]

:angel:


I've still 8, only 2 working. Make that 9 if the scrapped donor body is included.
I find the camera too complicated - for repair, maintainance, or even downright use. Too complicated to be relied upon for "real work".

Since comparisons with cars and bikes have already been made in this thread, I would compare a Zorki-1 or FED-1 to a Volkswagen. Reliable, even after all these years. Possible to fix, and once fixed, can go on and on. Hard to swat, and will keep on buzzing. That's probably why my Zorki/FED to Kiev ratio is almost 10:1. :D

In use, I've never been able to shoot as quick with the Kiev as I could with the FED or Zorki. I've never missed a shot with the Barnack types. Even with their
separate VF/RF eyepieces. So I may not miss the Kiev so much- except for the same reason as you do- the "look" from the lenses, particularly the Helios 103. I never found the Kiev an easy tool to use for street and candid photography- that's just me. :angel:

Jay


Jay:
I started the opposite way, I fell in love with a Contax but I got a Kiev 4. later came the Contax as well as another Kiev4. Not later than a month later I was wandering what´s the magic around Barnack bodies and bought a Zorki1.
Today I do not regret having both types.
Fortunately both exists!
Chhers

Ernesto

[newspaperguy]

Count me with Ernesto... I have two Kievs I use regularly, a 1956 2a and 1959 4,
both of which have worked faultlessly (after light sealing) plus a Zorki 1d and 1e that are the perfect carry cameras... well th ragged looking 1d is the carry-cam,
the mint later model is a shelf queen. I also have a Kiev 3 in pieces, although I don't remember why and a badly machined late Kiev 4 (also in pieces.)

Rick B ... back on the list after years of digital absence.