View Full Version : HU: Noctilux price increase effective January 1, 2008
edhohoho
12-28-2007, 12:19
I just received a call from a local camera store regarding my recent inquiry about purchasing a new Noctilux through them. After talking with the buyer or distributor, apparently the store can get one in about 7 to 10 days. (Makes sense since recently Leica was said to have fulfilled all Noctilux orders placed with the 30% discount.) When I told him I would think about it, he told me that I would have the opportunity to purchase the lens at the $5495 price until 12/31/07, with the price increasing to $5995 on 1/1/08. Wow, that was quick. So much for the "usual" delay of Leica price increases.
Still a bargain. Nothing comes close to this lens for speed and low light use.
I checked my local shop yesterday. They are increasing the price of a lot but not all items. Thankfully they are not increasing the prices of the summarits that I'm saving up for.
I just received a call from a local camera store regarding my recent inquiry about purchasing a new Noctilux through them. After talking with the buyer or distributor, apparently the store can get one in about 7 to 10 days. (Makes sense since recently Leica was said to have fulfilled all Noctilux orders placed with the 30% discount.) When I told him I would think about it, he told me that I would have the opportunity to purchase the lens at the $5495 price until 12/31/07, with the price increasing to $5995 on 1/1/08. Wow, that was quick. So much for the "usual" delay of Leica price increases.
7 to 10 days? I've heard that before. I hope Leica have caught up with the Nocti demand as it would be great to see the lens in the hands of more photographers. I waited in line a year before giving up on owning a new one, perhaps I should have given it another month. It's a beautiful lens and would have been worth the wait.
Is this a US price increase only to balance the EUR vs $ rate?
mfunnell
12-28-2007, 13:34
Still a bargain. Nothing comes close to this lens for speed and low light use.Possibly true - but at those prices I, for one, will never know.
...Mike
thomasw_
12-28-2007, 13:35
I guess I will have to save for that extra 10% :/
I read on the German LUF that price increases were supposed to be 5% across the board. We would need a dealer to chime in on this. Sometimes Tony Rose pops in and confirms/denies.
Leicabug
12-28-2007, 14:51
I also read that the new price in Jan., 2008 for Noctilux is $5995.
I read on the German LUF that price increases were supposed to be 5% across the board. We would need a dealer to chime in on this. Sometimes Tony Rose pops in and confirms/denies.
About 5% in the US at least... but not across the board.
the summarits did not go up... and if my memory serves me, neither did 28mm Elmarit. I definitely remember the Nocti, 50mm Summicron, and 35 Summilux on the price increase list.
< the list was verbally listed out to me yesterday at my dealer>
This increase was announced months ago. Search and ye shall find.
I will getting my new one tomorrow. However, it will be with the new price :(.
The funny thing is that you can get a Canon 50/1.2 instead, which costs about the same amount by which Leica is now increasing their prices. The difference is half a stop, or 2.54 vs. 2.14 cm DOF at 1m wide open.
Philipp
The funny thing is that you can get a Canon 50/1.2 instead, which costs about the same amount by which Leica is now increasing their prices. The difference is half a stop, or 2.54 vs. 2.14 cm DOF at 1m wide open.
Philipp
The Canon is very flare prone and has that infinity lock.
I am glad Leica is doing this, in my opinion, they should increase the price even more, so that the new users will feel even more exclusive. This would be good for the RF world - as soon as the word spreads out that people are spending 15.000USD to buy the a' la carte pink snake leather bound mechanical MP film camera with a 10k fixed fl lens on it, we will assist at massive switch from the Canon 1DS mark twohandredtwentythree equipped with the 12-400 f0.95 USM IS XL superduperzoom population of users, because, as is obvious, the more expensive something is, the better pictures it takes, by definition.
The Canon is very flare prone and has that infinity lock.
If that's the reason for spending an extra $5.5k, you can always take out the infinity lock and use a hood. Or get a Canon 50/0.95 for one fifth of what a Noctilux costs.
The only reason I can possibly see somebody justifying a Noctilux is if the particular way the Noctilux renders things is worth a $4800 to $5500 premium for him. That's a matter of taste I guess; I've seen my share of Noctilux pictures, but none where I would have said that this is it. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
Philipp
LeicaTom
12-30-2007, 05:43
6K for a nocti? Thats just silly :)
Agreed, there`s NO lens worth $6,000 , it`s one lens that isn`t on my priorities list, even if I could pay that sort of money for lenses, (I would`nt) - I don`t get what`s to rave about.......and I don`t like the look the f1.2 50mm Canon gives either, but from what I`ve seen the Canon f0.95 does pretty good stopped down to f1.2 (and that`s another lens that isn`t worth stupid collectors prices $500 to $700 at most) - my opinion as always :)
Tom
6K for a nocti? Thats just silly IMO. And thats my opinion. Im not trying to make it your opinion:)
Ordered some time ago (with the old price catalog) but it is actually here and with the new price :mad: . I started with RF late in Aug this year, very late (due to persistent Tennis Elbow problems, I switched from using SLRs) and I guess I have not been lucky like many here with lenses bought with the old prices, e.g. MATE or Summilux 75. The lack of stocks (old and new) and the resultant price increases have been recent. Really bad timing for recent RF purchasers.
rather buy a used 50 and 35 Lux Asph and a used 0.95 at the same price as a new Noct. :)
Or an EOS 5D ($1900 new) with a couple of Canon EF lenses, such as a 50/1.0L ($2100 or so used), a 24/1.4L ($1200) and a 135/2L ($800) :)
Philipp
Old adage: If a house doesn't sell at it's current price, raise the price and it is more likely to sell.
The Canon is very flare prone and has that infinity lock.
You're right about the infinity lock, it's annoying. When I take mine apart to relube it, I plan to disable it somehow, even if that means spoiling the lens' 'collector value!'
I've only shot three rolls with my 50/1.2 so far, but it seems very flare resistant to me. That's the setting sun in the upper left corner of the attached image, shot at f4.0.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53889&d=1199030544
Old adage: If a house doesn't sell at it's current price, raise the price and it is more likely to sell.
I though the Noctilux is sold out anyway?
I'll be selling mine in the coming months. Will probably post in the classifieds here again.
I am just grateful for all of the CV lenses. I am also grateful that I am not capable of detecting the image quality difference obtained between new Leica and new CV lenses. So Leica can go as high as they want for lenses.
Be curious to see how they price the R10 if it comes out at the next Photokina. For Leica to even attempt to compete with Nikon and Canon on their own turf is very dangerous. There is no competition for the M8 but there will be tons of great competition for the R10.
Eric
Roger Hicks
12-30-2007, 08:43
To those who think that no lens can be worth $6000:
If you don't think the Noctilux is worth the money, go and buy one of the other, cheaper 50/1 RF lenses on the market. Or live without f/1.
Snivelling about the price is just silly. If you can't afford one -- I can't -- then your opinion is close to worthless anyway. If you've never used one (I have) then your opinion is worth even less.
Comparing it with the Canon 50/1.2 is pretty silly too. I own the Canon and have been using the f/1 for some time (a loan from a generous friend). I have no difficulty in seeing why the Noctilux is worth more.
Twelve times more? If you can afford it, yes. If you can't...
IF I could afford one easily, I'd buy it. It's a nice lens, though big and heavy if it's your only 50. But I never cease to be amazed by the people who bridle when you suggest they can't afford it. "I could afford it if I wanted it," they sniff.
Now, either they're lying (and like me, can't afford it) or they genuinely don't want it. In the latter case, who gives a toss about their opinion of what it's worth? I don't want a horse, so a horse is worth nothing to me. I wouldn't even take one as a gift. But a Noctilux...
Cheers,
Roger
The true, most technically comparable bargain out there is the CV 35/1.2, the
only lens comparable to the 50/1 due to closer min. focus and added speed
due to wider angle.
Would be interesting to hear what you feel about the Nokton, Roger.
Roland.
Tuolumne
12-30-2007, 09:09
I took this 2 days ago:
R-D1s
Noctilux@f1.0
1/15th second, hand held
Print: 13x19 on Hanehmuhle William Turner water color paper
You can smell the fetid odor of the dying roses in the print. Still, I won't make a nickel off it. But it is fun, until the sheriff comes to evict me from my home. :eek:
Thank God, I bought this lens a year ago for alot less than $6K on eBay from a seller in Australia. I guess the "bargains" are all gone now. :(
/T
ooops, can't seem to attach it anymore. See next.
If you've never used one (I have) then your opinion is worth even less. [...] In the latter case, who gives a toss about their opinion of what it's worth?
Well, given that most of us here can't afford it and/or don't want it, and yet you've apparently given enough of a toss about their opinions to warrant an answer, I guess we can have a discussion anyway ;)
Philipp
Roland,
I can't imagine how a 35/1.2 could take any of the photos I took recently with the 50/f1, I can sort of imagine a 75/1.4 by stepping back a bit, but even the last snapshot I took, with prefocused on a toy mouse waiting for the cat to strike in the dark at F1, I can't imagine the 35/1.2 equalling it, I'd have to be closer, and the cat's behavior would have changed.
Do you think the 35/1.2 is really closer DOF wise than a 75/1.4?
I've also never felt any CV lens focus as smoothly or have such a solid feeling as the Noctilux. Also, the heads don't fall off randomly.
I think that if you can't take the same photo in the same light with the same DOF at the same distance, then it's not technically or otherwise comparable at all??
The true, most technically comparable bargain out there is the CV 35/1.2, the
only lens comparable to the 50/1 due to closer min. focus and added speed
due to wider angle.
Would be interesting to hear what you feel about the Nokton, Roger.
Roland.
edhohoho
12-30-2007, 10:31
It doesn't seem right to have to pay the new price for a new Noctilux before January 1, 2008. But then again, many on this forum think it's not right to pay the current or even previous prices for this lens.
My original intention was to make those who were thinking about a Noctilux aware that the price increase is real and coming fast, and not to generate contention. Now I know why some people have said they try to avoid Noctilux threads on this forum. Yikes!
Leicabug
12-30-2007, 10:32
Usually the price is determind by supply and demend. At the moment, Leica can't make enough to meet the demend. So it is fit for them to raise the price. However, if Noctilux becomes made-to-order item, the price for new Noctilux will remain high regardless of demend.
The Noctilux epitomizes the RF experience. No RF user should not own one at some point. Even if you have to sell it for a massive profit later ...
Some folks don't want to hear about the Leica rumors until they materialize and are facts. I think many prices changed or will change on items besides the Noctilux.
It doesn't seem right to have to pay the new price for a new Noctilux before January 1, 2008. But then again, many on this forum think it's not right to pay the current or even previous prices for this lens.
My original intention was to make those who were thinking about a Noctilux aware that the price increase is real and coming fast, and not to generate contention. Now I know why some people have said they try to avoid Noctilux threads on this forum. Yikes!
Hi Ted,
yes, you would have to be closer, and the DOF of the 35/1.2 at .7m is
similar to that of the 50/1 at 1m. The picture coverage, too. Relation
between fore and background will be different of course.
Roland.
edhohoho
12-30-2007, 10:58
Some folks don't want to hear about the Leica rumors until they materialize and are facts. I think many prices changed or will change on items besides the Noctilux.
Oops, sorry if I committed a faux pas. Last year I remember thinking about a Noctilux but figured that since it's still in production and at the time was not in as high demand that I would probably be able to get a used one at about the same price at a later date. I couldn't have been more wrong!
Ah, I see Roger's trotted out his "sour grapes" defense of the Noctilux again. ;)
Roger, I could write a check for the thing, but I choose not to. Like most mortals, I have a house to maintain, a child's education to fund, and, frankly, a blue-collar sensibility regarding performance v. cost. My wife's buying an M3 BMW in the spring with my blessing. It's expensive, but there's not a dull moment to be had behind the wheel. It sets every nerve ending alight without wearing you out physically. It seems like magic, somehow, and it seems worth every penny.
I had a chance to trade my Summilux 50 plus $1k for a Noctilux a little over a year ago. I tried out the Noctilux and gave it back. Performance wise, it's a Summilux pre-asph with an extra stop, IMO. Too heavy, too slow to focus; one loses the light, quick handling of an RF to gain that extra stop. And its signature look has to be used carefully, lest one's subject get lost in a swirl of weird bokeh artifacts. By f4.0, it looks like damned near any other 50 you could mount to an M body. Those who claim its "special" look is visible at all apertures are just being silly.
Roger, at what price would the Noctilux stop being a "bargain" to you? $25,000? $1,000,000? Is there any price point at which Leica could offer a lens that would make you simply recoil in horror?
Honestly, the worst thing about the Noctilux, and many of the other, over-priced Leica lenses, is that they put a photographer's head in the wrong place: concentrated on 'magic' gear rather than imagination, craft and daring. Even though the Noctilux does have a unique look wide-open, to this date, I have yet to see one wide-open image made with it that was anything more that a demonstration of shallow dof, vignetting and wacky bokeh.
IMO, of course. :)
No problem with me on speculation, especially if there's some sound basis behind it. I was just mentioning that it seems to get others whacked out easily, not sure why.
Oops, sorry if I committed a faux pas. Last year I remember thinking about a Noctilux but figured that since it's still in production and at the time was not in as high demand that I would probably be able to get a used one at about the same price at a later date. I couldn't have been more wrong!
What's better for the environment our kids will be raised in and inherit from us? One ravished with ozone depletion by exotic sports cars? or an expensive lens that produces wacky bokeh? :p
Ah, I see Roger's trotted out his "sour grapes" defense of the Noctilux again. ;)
Roger, I could write a check for the thing, but I choose not to. Like most mortals, I have a house to maintain, a child's education to fund, and, frankly, a blue-collar sensibility regarding performance v. cost. My wife's buying an M3 BMW in the spring with my blessing. It's expensive, but there's not a dull moment to be had behind the wheel. It sets every nerve ending alight without wearing you out physically. It seems like magic, somehow, and it seems worth every penny.
I had a chance to trade my Summilux 50 plus $1k for a Noctilux a little over a year ago. I tried out the Noctilux and gave it back. Performance wise, it's a Summilux pre-asph with an extra stop, IMO. Too heavy, too slow to focus; one loses the light, quick handling of an RF to gain that extra stop. And its signature look has to be used carefully, lest one's subject get lost in a swirl of weird bokeh artifacts. By f4.0, it looks like damned near any other 50 you could mount to an M body. Those who claim its "special" look is visible at all apertures are just being silly.
Roger, at what price would the Noctilux stop being a "bargain" to you? $25,000? $1,000,000? Is there any price point at which Leica could offer a lens that would make you simply recoil in horror?
Honestly, the worst thing about the Noctilux, and many of the other, over-priced Leica lenses, is that they put a photographer's head in the wrong place: concentrated on 'magic' gear rather than imagination, craft and daring. Even though the Noctilux does have a unique look wide-open, to this date, I have yet to see one wide-open image made with it that was anything more that a demonstration of shallow dof, vignetting and wacky bokeh.
IMO, of course. :)
What's better for the environment our kids will be raised in and inherit from us? One ravished with ozone depletion by exotic sports cars? or an expensive lens that produces wacky bokeh? :p
Unless you consider buying a Tesla :) Save our kids, buy Noctilux'es :) :)
Funny how Noctilux threads invariably turn out.
Roger Hicks
12-30-2007, 12:18
Ah, I see Roger's trotted out his "sour grapes" defense of the Noctilux again. ;)
As I can't afford either a BMW M3 or a Noctilux, my opinions are somewhat academic. But I can much more readily imagine buying the Noctilux, and not just because it's cheaper. I'd like a Noctilux; I don't really want a German rustbucket motor-car, though I'd prefer it to a horse. I own a BMW motorcycle, and have driven (for a reasonably extended period -- a few weeks) some BMW car or other: it was 15 years ago and I've forgotten which one it was. For the same money (or less) I'd buy a Hesketh. For fun, among motor-cars, I preferred the XJS I also had for a few weeks.
I didn't say that the Noctilux was a bargain. Rather I said (or implied) that there's no real alternative. If you can REALLY afford it, and you want it, you buy it. If you don't want it, you don't buy it at any price, and if you can't really afford it, you can make up some story about how it's not worth the money to you. I could probably scrape up the money for one if I wanted it badly enough, but I don't want it anything like that badly. Like you, I have other priorities. This means I can't afford it.
If I had a million pounds ($2,000,000 or so) I'd like flying lessons and a rebuilt Spitfire. So? I can't afford that either. But if I wanted a 50/0.85 general-purpose lens, and could afford it, then yes, I can imagine asking Zeiss to build me one on a cost-plus basis (I'm reasonably confident they could do it, and so are they). That would be before I bought the Spitfire.
As for the point raised by another poster (not you) that if I can't afford one, I don't have much to contribute either, my sole point in joining in here is to put the opposing point of view to most who can't afford one. I can't either, but I'm not crying sour grapes about it.
After all, if it's not worth the money to you, no-one is forcing you to buy one.
Finally, after trying a LOT of fast lenses, I find the current C-Sonnar to be pure magic at a bargain price and I can live without the extra stop (or half-stop against f/1.2). Sure, I'd buy a Noctilux as well if I could afford one, but I don't miss it all that much.
Cheers,
R.
What's better for the environment our kids will be raised in and inherit from us? One ravished with ozone depletion by exotic sports cars? or an expensive lens that produces wacky bokeh?
Well, that's a fair point, I 'spose. Any word on how much radioactive glass is in the Noctilux, though? :D
Dan States
12-30-2007, 12:45
What's so funny about the Noctilux is that it can demand these prices with absolutely no evidence that it makes pictures any better than any other 50mm lens. The vast majority of photo's taken with this lens are of kids, friends, relatives and stationary objects because they are the only ones who will sit still while you twiddle the overdamped focus ring trying to get sharp focus with a nats eyelash worth of depth of field. It's surely not a "Decisive Moment" kind of lens, and for landscapes any F2 Planar or Summicron has richer contrast and better color balance.
Of course, if I ran Leica I'd jack the prices up every month until I saw a drop in revenue. The "Value of the dollar against the Euro" argument is pretty lame on a lens made in Canada that has gone from 2K to 6K usd in 4 years. Folks, the dollar isn't THAT weak!
I had my Noctilux fun and for 2k it was an "experience", but I'll be spending my 6k traveling to places to TAKE pictures.
Roger Hicks
12-30-2007, 12:52
Addendum:
I was just discussing this with my wife, Frances Schultz, talking about the lenses we'd most like to have that fill gaps in our outfits.
For me: Thambar, 16-18-21 Tri-Elmar, Nokton, 12/5.6 Voigtländer, 15/2.8 Zeiss (in that order)
For her: 16-18-21 Tri-Elmar, Nokton.
And as she said, "It strikes me as odd to spend this much time worrying about the equipment you want, instead of taking pictures with the equipment you have."
Cheers,
R.
Who has a geiger counter handy??
Well, that's a fair point, I 'spose. Any word on how much radioactive glass is in the Noctilux, though? :D
Surely an assessment of the value of goods depends in part upon comparing the costs of manufacture to the sale costs. So does anyone know what it costs Leica to make these lenses? Or what profit margin the middlemen (dealers) take? The answers might assist an objective assessment of whether the items represent good "value" for the end buyers (in narrow financial terms of course--obviously "value" can here carry a myriad of other meanings...).
Regards,
D.O'K.
D.O'K.
Roger Hicks
12-30-2007, 13:01
What's so funny about the Noctilux is that it can demand these prices with absolutely no evidence that it makes pictures any better than any other 50mm lens. .
It is a lot better than any other lens at f/1, though...
I've used it quite a lot at full aperture -- indeed, there's not much reason to use it any other way -- and I find it quite useful to be able to halve shutter speeds as against an f/1.4, especially at ISO 2500 equivalent on the M8.
Of course you can use shutter speeds twice as long, but that's an invitation to camera shake, and at reasonable distances -- I've mostly used it at a few metres -- d-o-f is acceptable at f/1. With the M8 at 2500 or with Delta 3200 in the MP and shutter speeds in the 1/15-1/60 range it gives you pics that are hard to take otherwise.
If you don't shoot by 'available darkness', it's a waste of money. If you do -- well, if you can afford one, you buy one.
Cheers,
R.
~300 more slots for Teslas in 2008. However, if you don't get a Tesla, buy my Noctilux and help save the planet anyways. You can trade in your fast cycle for an electric Honda or Vespa, and I'll have a bumper sticker made for you that says "My other Bike is a Noctilux!"
Unless you consider buying a Tesla :) Save our kids, buy Noctilux'es :) :)
Funny how Noctilux threads invariably turn out.
Snivelling about the price is just silly.
Exactly... this forum and just about any hobby oriented forum always has discussions on how <insert item here> is so expensive and not worth it. It is all relative.
I think the M8 is way over priced... people still buy them...
I think the noctilux is over pried... people still buy them...
I think Starbucks coffee is way over priced... people still line up at the door.
I think no commuter car is worth more than $20k... people still drive expensive BMWs, Mercs etc to and from work.
I think no watch is worth more than $20 bucks... people still buy Rolex's.
I think no starter home in Northern Jersey is worth more than $200k... look around almost all of them are more than $300k.
See the pattern? Each starts with the word "I". I wanted a couple expensive Leica items... I sacrificed (don't drive expensive car, don't have expensive stuff, work two jobs) to help finance them. It is all relative and internalized... (people start to get really into trouble when everything they want "has" to be expensive).
What I do see as a bit disturbing is the how much things (Leica as well as other items) has increased in the US over time. I really start to actually care about expensive items when those "expensive" items are basic necessities.
In regards to the noctilux, I purchased mine for $2200 (used, mint) a couple years ago. I had to really work and sacrifice to afford it. Now? sheesh... even used is out of my reach. Some goes for my house purchased in 1999.... no way I can afford one now.
Exactly... this forum and just about any hobby oriented forum always has discussions on how <insert item here> is so expensive and not worth it. It is all relative.
I think the M8 is way over priced... people still buy them...
I think the noctilux is over pried... people still buy them...
I think Starbucks coffee is way over priced... people still line up at the door.
I think no commuter car is worth more than $20k... people still drive expensive BMWs, Mercs etc to and from work.
I think no watch is worth more than $20 bucks... people still buy Rolex's.
I think no starter home in Northern Jersey is worth more than $200k... look around almost all of them are more than $300k.
See the pattern? Each starts with the word "I". I wanted a couple expensive Leica items... I sacrificed (don't drive expensive car, don't have expensive stuff, work two jobs) to help finance them. It is all relative and internalized... (people start to get really into trouble when everything they want "has" to be expensive).
What I do see as a bit disturbing is the how much things (Leica as well as other items) has increased in the US over time. I really start to actually care about expensive items when those "expensive" items are basic necessities.
In regards to the noctilux, I purchased mine for $2200 (used, mint) a couple years ago. I had to really work and sacrifice to afford it. Now? sheesh... even used is out of my reach. Some goes for my house purchased in 1999.... no way I can afford one now.
You left out horses ... some people pay millions for horses based purely on who the sire was. For me to buy a Noctilux would be akin to having one of these horses ... I would only ride it around the paddock and tell myself how great it was as it trotted ... I would never let it gallop!:p
What's wrong with these Noctilux threads? ... I reckon they're excellent reading and the discussions are entertainingly feisty at times. :)
[edit] I'm glad to hear you say that about the Sonar Roger ... that's firmly on my shopping list once I've sold a few other lenses ... that and a 25mm!
In regards to the noctilux, I purchased mine for $2200 (used, mint) a couple years ago. I had to really work and sacrifice to afford it. Now? sheesh... even used is out of my reach. Some goes for my house purchased in 1999.... no way I can afford one now.
The moral of the story? You should have bought 2 or more lenses and 2 or more houses. Then you will have a tidy wad of cash lying some where, maybe a Swiss bank? :D
I don't really want a German rustbucket motor-car...
They don't really rust anymore, not like the bad-old days. We're buying used, FWIW, and letting some other chump take the depreciation hit. I'd rather pay my mechanic for maintenance than pay interest to the bank.
Life is short and I think we should sample its pleasures. I guess I get more pleasure from the ripping sound BMW's inline 6 makes than I do swirly lens bokeh, but if the latter makes a person happy then he'll get no argument from me. As long as he doesn't claim his lens is magic at every aperture, I won't claim the BMW can go 200 mph and get 50mpg doing it. :D
I reckon as a comparison a $6000.00 50mm lens is more like a Bugatti Veyron ... not an M3 BMW. I would see the Beemer as being more like a Zeiss Sonar ... expensive compared to a Nokton but very refined and good value for the performance you're getting!
My Noktons are looking better all the time.
Bob
The moral of the story? You should have bought 2 or more lenses and 2 or more houses. Then you will have a tidy wad of cash lying some where, maybe a Swiss bank? :D
Hehehe lol.. Actually that was my intention in regards to the house. Buy one.. save up (leverage home equity).. buy a 2nd for either rental or primary. I was well on my way to accomplishing that feat until something ruined my plans..... a massive layoff in 10/2001 (from one of the largest computer corporations) followed by 2 years of unemployment. By the time, I recovered... housing went through roof and even the most hard working professionals in my industry can no longer afford a decent home.
At this point... the Noctilux is one of my best "non-investments"... isn't that silly? I laugh at that fact each and everytime I shoot with it.
They don't really rust anymore, not like the bad-old days. We're buying used, FWIW, and letting some other chump take the depreciation hit. I'd rather pay my mechanic for maintenance than pay interest to the bank.
Life is short and I think we should sample its pleasures. I guess I get more pleasure from the ripping sound BMW's inline 6 makes than I do swirly lens bokeh, but if the latter makes a person happy then he'll get no argument from me. As long as he doesn't claim his lens is magic at every aperture, I won't claim the BMW can go 200 mph and get 50mpg doing it. :D
Get the M5!
My Noktons are looking better all the time.
Bob
YUP!! You can buy a whole bag of Voigtlanders for the price of a Summilux... isnt' that the kicker. I like Leica glass BUT I am extremely impressed by the two Voigtlanders that I acquired during a recent camera swap... 35mm nokton and 28mm ultron.
btw.. I was once lusting over a early 90s 911 porsche at the local speed shop one day. Even brought the wife to see it in person.... her response?
You can afford it if you sell some of the Camera stuff including the Noctilux.
She was right and I'm still driving my Dodge. hehehe lol
but show me a Nokton or any lens that can render images like these:
http://matsumura.smugmug.com/gallery/4080402#237707369
(all from the Costco scans with no editing except for the 8x10 ratio one that was cropped to remove the end of roll thingy, and the 2 or 3 deer print ones that were bumped up with picasa feeling lucky for better contrast).
and I'll eat my words.
My Noktons are looking better all the time.
Bob
Or an EOS 5D ($1900 new) with a couple of Canon EF lenses, such as a 50/1.0L ($2100 or so used), a 24/1.4L ($1200) and a 135/2L ($800) :)
The build quality of a Canon EOS 5D is certainly not comparable to a Leica. And whoever has ever used an elmarit would be very disappointed with the Canon wide lenses!
But I basically agree regarding the insane price of the Noctilux.
Cheers!
Abbazz
Today's insane prices will be yesterday's discounted prices.
but show me a Nokton or any lens that can render images like these:
http://matsumura.smugmug.com/gallery/4080402#237707369
(all from the Costco scans with no editing except for the 8x10 ratio one that was cropped to remove the end of roll thingy, and the 2 or 3 deer print ones that were bumped up with picasa feeling lucky for better contrast).
and I'll eat my words.
Don't you dare start a Voigtlander Nokton versus Noctilux debacle!! All of the posts mentioning the Voigtlander offerings simply stated that they are good... No one said they were better than Nocti and ONLY YOU stated that the Nocti is better.
Its a pissing contest with only you in it.
Besides.... If you can't afford the Nocti do you expect someone just the throw up the hands in the air and proceed in a tantrum. Or perhaps find enjoyment with a Nokton?
I have both now... and I like both.
but show me a Nokton or any lens that can render images like these:
http://matsumura.smugmug.com/gallery/4080402#237707369
It's quite easy to shoot blurry twigs with many cheaply available lenses. Here are two from the Canon .095 (lousy pictures, but less vignetting than Noctilux ones ;) ):
http://abbazz.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p304642304.jpg
http://abbazz.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p259844777.jpg
(all from the Costco scans with no editing except for the 8x10 ratio one that was cropped to remove the end of roll thingy, and the 2 or 3 deer print ones that were bumped up with picasa feeling lucky for better contrast).
I can see clearly the ones with bumped up contrast: the vignetting is so pronounced that I thought you had mounted a lens hood too narrow for the lens.
Cheers!
Abbazz
Oh great... now we have the Canon shooters involved... hehehe lol.
Down the rabbit hole we go.
Oh great... now we have the Canon shooters involved...
The 50/0.95 is my only Canon lens. It lives on a Bessa R3m. I don't think I qualify as a "Canon shooter"...
Cheers!
Abbazz
It's quite easy to shoot blurry twigs with many cheaply available lenses. Here are two from the Canon .095 (lousy pictures, but less vignetting than Noctilux ones ;) ):
http://abbazz.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p304642304.jpg
http://abbazz.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p259844777.jpg
I can see clearly the ones with bumped up contrast: the vignetting is so pronounced that I thought you had mounted a lens hood too narrow for the lens.
Cheers!
Abbazz
Ha! I just got a .95 two days ago!
Here is a sample-
http://www.tunachaser.com/modules/pnCPG/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/Canon7-095-Rock5.jpg
I admit, it's no Noctilux :) - but you can see some more shots from my first 3 rolls if you care to here -- http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52074
but they lack something to me that is hard to describe, maybe this photo or gallery will show the signature that I am trying to refer to:
http://matsumura.smugmug.com/gallery/4080678#237721960-A-LB
and yes, there is vigging, as I mentioned I didn't edit or crop, except for those deer print photos.
It's quite easy to shoot blurry twigs with many cheaply available lenses. Here are two from the Canon .095 (lousy pictures, but less vignetting than Noctilux ones ;) ):
http://abbazz.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p304642304.jpg
http://abbazz.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p259844777.jpg
I can see clearly the ones with bumped up contrast: the vignetting is so pronounced that I thought you had mounted a lens hood too narrow for the lens.
Cheers!
Abbazz
Can a Canon or Nokton lens do this?
http://matsumura.smugmug.com/gallery/4080402#237707652
I'm not saying the above is technically great, it could be the opposite. Just asking ;)
Chuck Albertson
12-30-2007, 18:17
Of course, if I ran Leica I'd jack the prices up every month until I saw a drop in revenue. The "Value of the dollar against the Euro" argument is pretty lame on a lens made in Canada that has gone from 2K to 6K usd in 4 years. Folks, the dollar isn't THAT weak!
Actually, it's the "value of the dollar against the loonie" that may have more to do with the latest price increase. With the loonie hitting parity with the dollar, anything coming out of Canada is going to cost more these days.
but show me a Nokton or any lens that can render images like these:
http://matsumura.smugmug.com/gallery/4080402#237707369
(all from the Costco scans with no editing except for the 8x10 ratio one that was cropped to remove the end of roll thingy, and the 2 or 3 deer print ones that were bumped up with picasa feeling lucky for better contrast).
and I'll eat my words.
Wait...you use Costco scans for your Noctilux images? Please, the irony is killing me.
Yes ampguy, a Noctilux will out-perform a Nokton. And at a certain point the price/performance ratio makes the Nokton the clear choice for most shooters. I suspect $6k is past that point. Having said that if you need/want a Noctilux get one...nothing else will do.
Best regards,
Bob
Those Canon images look great to me, as do many Nocti shots I've seen in the past. I waited a year for a new Nocti before deciding that I couldn't afford how much it had increased in price during that time. With the money I got a refund (I had money in credit from the return of my M8's) plus a few items. If I had one, I'd use it. I love the build of it and longer focus throw. I like the way it renders, although it's perhaps a bit wacky at times. Maybe for me a 50 Summilux would be better, although I'll probably never know because the price of that has gone up too.
I'd like a Noctilux. I do enough low light shooting to justify it. But as HCB said, the sun goes down for a reason and that reason is to remind you it's time to put the camera away...
Those Canon images look great to me, as do many Nocti shots I've seen in the past. I waited a year for a new Nocti before deciding that I couldn't afford how much it had increased in price during that time. With the money I got a refund (I had money in credit from the return of my M8's) plus a few items. If I had one, I'd use it. I love the build of it and longer focus throw. I like the way it renders, although it's perhaps a bit wacky at times. Maybe for me a 50 Summilux would be better, although I'll probably never know because the price of that has gone up too.
I'd like a Noctilux. I do enough low light shooting to justify it. But as HCB said, the sun goes down for a reason and that reason is to remind you it's time to put the camera away...
... but sometimes the time after sunset has some surprising and interesting moments worth being photographed. :) I hope that you get your Noctilux some time !
Ok ... if we're throwing images about and seeing what a six thousand dollar lens can do compared to a budget alternative fasty ... here's one I took the other day that surprised me. My Nokton may not have f1. but it did only cost a few hundred dollars and it did produce this result ... if someone would like to send me their Noctilux quickly I'll take the same photo so I can compare and get it back to you as soon as I can. I promise! :angel: :p
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/wheelie52/RFF%20Storage/Flower.jpg
... but sometimes the time after sunset has some surprising and interesting moments worth being photographed. :) I hope that you get your Noctilux some time !
Exactly! ARRRRRGH! It's neverending! No wonder I'm not sleeping well...
Yeah, I'd love to be able to use one. Never say never, eh?
Also, a question...
Does the Canon 0.95 have the same sort of focus shift (technically speaking) that's reported with the Nocti? I've read that the Sonnar also shifts somewhat, is that true?
Sorry for being OT...
J
I had to think really hard to decide between the Noctilux and the Summilux 75 for portraits. I was quite surprised by the Lux 75:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2249/2146618810_5fd2e1385d_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2283/2146618506_0d5afc46fe_o.jpg
etrigan63
12-30-2007, 21:57
Here's one I did with my CV 75mm Color-Heliar on my M8
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2366/1880051438_025c57d050_b.jpg
Granted, it's not a Noctilux and I am not HCB, but I like the bokeh on it anyways.
Does the Canon 0.95 have the same sort of focus shift (technically speaking) that's reported with the Nocti? I've read that the Sonnar also shifts somewhat, is that true?
Yes, it is called bathochromic shift and is caused by a change of spectral band position at molecular scale. :D
More seriously, yes, the Canon 50/0.95 is a pain in the neck to focus wide open.
Cheers!
Abbazz
Maybe for me a 50 Summilux would be better, although I'll probably never know because the price of that has gone up too.
A bit, but it's a relative bargain compared to what's going on with the Noctilux and the Leica wides. I sold mine for a grand and if I want it back, I guess I'd have to pay $1,200 or so. $200 seems a fair 'stupidity tax' to me. :D
A bit, but it's a relative bargain compared to what's going on with the Noctilux and the Leica wides. I sold mine for a grand and if I want it back, I guess I'd have to pay $1,200 or so. $200 seems a fair 'stupidity tax' to me. :D
The Lux ASPH is not cheap.
Is there a better deal anywhere for 1hr, ~3MB scan file sizes, and only occasional scratched negatives, and free sample snacks while waiting??
Wait...you use Costco scans for your Noctilux images? Please, the irony is killing me.
Yes ampguy, a Noctilux will out-perform a Nokton. And at a certain point the price/performance ratio makes the Nokton the clear choice for most shooters. I suspect $6k is past that point. Having said that if you need/want a Noctilux get one...nothing else will do.
Best regards,
Bob
The fact that you could buy a 75mm summilux and a 50mm summilux asph for the price of a new Noctilux, and still have cash left over, is surprizing to me.
My ultimate 50 when I scrape the readys together will be a Zeiss Sonnar for my Ikon. At f1.5 it's more than fast enough enough and if I find a situation where it's not I'll push the film. To me the only advantage the Noct seems to have is this extra stop of speed which translates to f.5 costing $5000.00. Lens technology above f1.5 has a steep premium obviously and as much as I marvel at it's capabilities I still find the Noct's OOF areas disturbing wide open and prone to inducing visual nausea in certain conditions!
The nocti will always be a polarizing thing in this forum...
erikhaugsby
12-31-2007, 10:57
10 hours until the price increase! :p
Let it raise! If and when I sell mine... I'll double my money easily.....
I'm joking.. I would rather let everything stay the same..
At B&H it is $5495 this morning. The text on the page reads "This item is temporarily not available. We have no estimated arrival date at this time." Looks like the used market is the only current solution if you want one.
Andrew Sowerby
01-01-2008, 05:53
Is there a better deal anywhere for 1hr, ~3MB scan file sizes, and only occasional scratched negatives, and free sample snacks while waiting??
It just seems weird to spend so much money on gear and then settle for minilab processing and scanning with occasional scratched negs.
It just seems weird to spend so much money on gear and then settle for minilab processing and scanning with occasional scratched negs.
It's weird, allright. The $5k lens + cheap film processing equation is all wrong. If I didn't still have a decent 'pro' lab near me then I'd give up on color film altogether. CVS ( a drug store chain ) and WalMart can be counted on to screw up my negatives on the occasions I've tried them. The Fuji Frontier ain't a plug 'n play machine; it still takes some attention to detail to get good results.
No insult intended, but if you're shooting with Leica gear and farming your film out to the lowest bidder, you're being kinda silly. :angel:
If I settled for 1.5MB scans (fine for 4x6 / 5x7) I could save a bit more by going to a local Longs. Less scratching, but occasional streaking there on the negs.
I don't see how a pro lab could make my Fuji 400 film look any better, assuming there is no scratching. They use the latest minilab gear, though they're pretty rushed.
I shoot a lot, a real lot, sometimes I'll go through a few rolls as fast as I can change the film, which is why I got a DSLR and may be selling my Noctilux sometime this year as film prices and developing are getting steep.
However, whether I keep it or sell it, there is no equivalent of a Noctilux look on for a DSLR or any other lens. There are different looks, better looks in some cases, but not the same, that I have seen yet.
It's weird, allright. The $5k lens + cheap film processing equation is all wrong. If I didn't still have a decent 'pro' lab near me then I'd give up on color film altogether. CVS ( a drug store chain ) and WalMart can be counted on to screw up my negatives on the occasions I've tried them. The Fuji Frontier ain't a plug 'n play machine; it still takes some attention to detail to get good results.
No insult intended, but if you're shooting with Leica gear and farming your film out to the lowest bidder, you're being kinda silly. :angel:
However, whether I keep it or sell it, there is no equivalent of a Noctilux look on for a DSLR or any other lens. There are different looks, better looks in some cases, but not the same, that I have seen yet.
Ah, the joy of utility functions. For that matter, there is no lens that replicates the look of an Industar-61 either.
Philipp
It just so happens I have one of these for sale as well.
I have to calculate the 10% it just increased last night, before I put it in the classifieds ...
Ah, the joy of utility functions. For that matter, there is no lens that replicates the look of an Industar-61 either.
Philipp
It just so happens I have one of these for sale as well.
I have to calculate the 10% it just increased last night, before I put it in the classifieds ...
Ha, at least you're not in the Euro zone :)
Philipp
At B&H it is $5495 this morning. The text on the page reads "This item is temporarily not available. We have no estimated arrival date at this time." Looks like the used market is the only current solution if you want one.
New ones have just arrived in stores. Serial numbers starting with 3985xxx. Grab it before it becomes a Dodo.
Can anyone explain to me WHY these are so popular all of a sudden? While I wouldnt mind having one, I really don't want one any more than I did back when they were a lot cheaper. What gives? Is it just people can use them on M8? But it's not any better than on regular M. I don't get it.
Tuolumne
01-01-2008, 22:48
Perhaps it's this: With a digital camera you get immediate feed back, so you can tell if you got the shot, and if not, reshoot. With film it's just continuous hit or miss.
/T
edhohoho
01-01-2008, 23:35
I thought that since the M8 supposedly does not have very good high ISO performance that it is necessary to have a faster lens in order to achieve higher shutter speeds at lower ISO settings.
Maybe it's also the fact that rangefinders are now available in the digital medium that this style of camera and photography have gained popularity among the "masses" by making it less "inconvenient" in that you still have to manual focus but do not have to locate and wait for film development services. Its form factor is also smaller and easier to handle and conceal than most current middle- to high-end DSLRs. Perhaps these perceived conveniences finally convinced more photographers to explore the rangefinder format and invest in quality gear such as the Leica system. And if you are willing to spend $5000 on a digital rangefinder body, it is not a far stretch for this same person to spend that much or more on a lens, especially if one is of the belief that the lenses are the vital components and most worthwhile investments in a camera system.
I can also see that the digital medium allows people much faster feedback from their shoots and makes it easier to post results on the internet, thus giving the Noctilux and its unique capabilities more exposure among photographers worldwide. But the thing is, this new interest in the Noctilux can apply to both film and digital users. With the whole fascination over the "bokeh" phenomenon and gradual acceptance of larger lenses on rangefinder bodies (with these offerings still being smaller than many DSLR counterparts), it can easily add up to increased popularity of the Noctilux.
perhaps... it's just the best lens ever made ...
But it's not any better than on regular M. I don't get it.
I think the cropped sensor of the M8 eliminates a good deal of the horrible vignetting the Noctiliux has wide open.
I've seen some very nice photos from a Noctilux stopped down well below 1.4. A most versatile lens.
Unless things have changed drastically, and this may account for the steep price increase, all Noctilae (or at least the optical elements) were made by a Canadian firm whose name escapes me at the moment.
There is one problem in the "ultra-exclusive niche strategy" for LEICA:
With a pricetag of 6k USD they may receive their actual production costs for a like-handmade series of few hundred Noctiluxes, plus some profit. But selling these few lenses will not bring enough money to spend some R&D effort for the next generation of highspeed lenses.
Design-wise, the actual 50/1.0 already is the oldest lens in LEICA's program: 32 years (15 years younger than the Canon 0.95). At prices of 6k USD some people who want it will look at the used market first...
perhaps... it's just the best lens ever made ...
Hmmm, even IF so (and it's a big IF), people just realize that now? This lens has been around for a while but just within a year or so had gone up in price so much.
etrigan63
01-02-2008, 08:15
Can anyone explain to me WHY these are so popular all of a sudden? While I wouldnt mind having one, I really don't want one any more than I did back when they were a lot cheaper. What gives? Is it just people can use them on M8? But it's not any better than on regular M. I don't get it.
Something similar happened in the US during the Prohibition. When denied access to some object/substance/service it's desirability increases. Supply and Demand. Cut the supply and the demand (and price) will go up dramatically. In this case, raise the price to make the object "unreachable" and more will strive to reach for it.
I just ordered a used Zeiss 50mm Planar f/2 LNIB + Hood for 1/10th the price.
Tuolumne
01-02-2008, 08:17
Olsen: "Today the same guy makes more than 100,000 $ - mostly due to the dollar fall."
The market giveth and the market taketh away. I wouldn't go buying any investment real estate on the strength of that kind of salary. :)
/T
Something similar happened in the US during the Prohibition. When denied access to some object/substance/service it's desirability increases. Supply and Demand. Cut the supply and the demand (and price) will go up dramatically. In this case, raise the price to make the object "unreachable" and more will strive to reach for it.
I just ordered a used Zeiss 50mm Planar f/2 LNIB + Hood for 1/10th the price.
and you're getting a completely different lens for 1/10th the price, not a better or worse lens, just a different one.
I don't see the relevence.
That being said, congrats on the lens, I've seen some great work from it.
But if someone has a recent pre-asph summilux and $3600, send me a pm. I don't need the sharpness and contrast of the asph summilux either, so no offers there.
You'll be pleased with that lens; I know I miss mine. Very nice imaging, as you mentioned, but it also handles very well. Not too big, and you can focus it by drawing your finger across the barrel. It's pretty sweet.
If I run out of patience with the infinity lock on the Canon 50/1.2, I might be trading up. :D
I just started using it and posting photos from this lens recently ...
Hmmm, even IF so (and it's a big IF), people just realize that now? This lens has been around for a while but just within a year or so had gone up in price so much.
Unless things have changed drastically, and this may account for the steep price increase, all Noctilae (or at least the optical elements) were made by a Canadian firm whose name escapes me at the moment.
Does Elcan or Raytheon ring a bell?
If I run out of patience with the infinity lock on the Canon 50/1.2, I might be trading up. :D
Kevin, I just posted my Noctilux in the classifieds. I'll give you a discount since I know you've been jonesin' for one. ;)
Nice photos by the way with the Canon.
etrigan63
01-02-2008, 21:39
and you're getting a completely different lens for 1/10th the price, not a better or worse lens, just a different one.
I don't see the relevence.
That being said, congrats on the lens, I've seen some great work from it.
Never said it was better or worse. I was looking for a nice 50 with good bokeh and have read excellent reports on this lens. It's a good lens, same focal length, couple stops slower, and 1/10 the price. Would I get a Nocti if I could afford it? Give me six winning lotto numbers and I'll get you one too Carl. :D
Buying this lens is a step up for me since my current arsenal is all CV glass and I would like Zeiss glass. Still the 40mm Nokton will be hard to beat with Zeiss glass. I don't see them making a 35mm f/1.5 anytime soon. Still I may sell off my CV 25mm and the Nokton for a Biogon 25mm and later pickup an 85mm for the long end.
The market giveth and the market taketh away. I wouldn't go buying any investment real estate on the strength of that kind of salary. :)
/T
Leveraging on one's finances by paying only the downpayment for uncompleted real estate can be a possiblity.
Tuolumne
01-02-2008, 21:41
Leveraging on one's finances by paying only the downpayment for uncompleted real estate can be a possiblity.
Say...have you heard about the housing bubble? :D
/T
I'll give you a discount since I know you've been jonesin' for one.
Nice photos by the way with the Canon.
Ha! Thanks Mike, and G/L with the sale. :D
Never said it was better or worse. I was looking for a nice 50 with good bokeh and have read excellent reports on this lens. It's a good lens, same focal length, couple stops slower, and 1/10 the price. Would I get a Nocti if I could afford it? Give me six winning lotto numbers and I'll get you one too Carl. :D
Buying this lens is a step up for me since my current arsenal is all CV glass and I would like Zeiss glass. Still the 40mm Nokton will be hard to beat with Zeiss glass. I don't see them making a 35mm f/1.5 anytime soon. Still I may sell off my CV 25mm and the Nokton for a Biogon 25mm and later pickup an 85mm for the long end.
Well your getting a nice 50, that's been on my radar for a while now.
I'm going to hold you to the noct ;)
And the Zeiss 25mm gets rave reviews, if I was in your shoes I would sell the pair to get the Zeiss.
Say...have you heard about the housing bubble? :D
/T
The adage holds true: Sell high, buy low. I think few people would have made a mistake engaging in the buying and selling of properties in the last 24 months (or stocks and shares). :eek:
I love housing bubbles. Maybe pick up a bargain or two to finance GAS attacks? :o
I made up my mind, I want one of these f1 lenses. Don't want to debate if they are worth the price or not. Here is my question, is now the time to buy? Do these f1 babies go up and down in price? I have not been able to get much historical info on this. I have no problem paying the current 5K price for a used one, but just a year ago they were much less. Am I buying one at the top or are these lenses going to continue to go up in price? I haven't been around the Lieca camp long enough to have a feel for it.
Roger Hicks
01-05-2008, 04:31
I think few people would have made a mistake engaging in the buying and selling of properties in the last 24 months (or stocks and shares). :eek:
Unless of course they were buying on buy-to-let mortgages, or with heavy leverages -- a classic house of cards in a falling market. And I fear that quite a few DID buy that way.
Cheers,
R.
johnastovall
01-05-2008, 04:36
Glad I got my like new one off of eBay in early Dec. for a lot less....
I would agree. Leica prices increase over the long-term so I think if you bought the one currently in the classifieds for $5K you would be doing OK. Ridiculous price but that is the market. That particular lens looks to be in good condition and doesn't have the attached hood, which many would consider an advantage.
I noticed that the older lenses have the brown coating while the later ones look green (of the current model). Have the coatings been updated?
Mike L has a great one in the Classifieds now.
After his sells, I may post mine here again, but it likely wouldn't go for less than Mike's very fair price.
I made up my mind, I want one of these f1 lenses. Don't want to debate if they are worth the price or not. Here is my question, is now the time to buy? Do these f1 babies go up and down in price? I have not been able to get much historical info on this. I have no problem paying the current 5K price for a used one, but just a year ago they were much less. Am I buying one at the top or are these lenses going to continue to go up in price? I haven't been around the Lieca camp long enough to have a feel for it.
edhohoho
01-05-2008, 15:09
I made up my mind, I want one of these f1 lenses. Don't want to debate if they are worth the price or not. Here is my question, is now the time to buy? Do these f1 babies go up and down in price? I have not been able to get much historical info on this. I have no problem paying the current 5K price for a used one, but just a year ago they were much less. Am I buying one at the top or are these lenses going to continue to go up in price? I haven't been around the Lieca camp long enough to have a feel for it.
Over the past year and a half, I have only seen the prices go steadily upward at a quick pace (we're talking about $2600 for a version 3 and $3300 for a version 4 back then when I started looking). Usually the older versions sell for less, but now that the brand new price has risen, everything is being dragged upwards. When I was looking for a Noctilux, I was offered an older version 3 (with the pin-mounted hood, but an aftermarket hood was substituted for the missing original hood) for only a couple hundred less than the current model (version 4 with built-in hood, but with the older white colored box, ~$4500). Being picky, I held out for the latest version 4 in the silver box (no 6-bit coding) but lost to the highest bidder--that one went for $5000. Incidentally, that same Noctilux is back on the auction block as we speak. Very nice example, but I am no longer in the market for one.
The one in the classifieds is a later 3rd version with the clip-on hood, which would be my personal choice if I were to buy an older version. Nice to see that it comes with the original box too.
Not sure about the coatings, but with the latest version, at least you are sure to have any updated coating if indeed a change was made over the decades.
I made up my mind, I want one of these f1 lenses.
I made the mistake of waiting when I could get one for $4.3 new and coded 2 months ago. Now, it is $6k, a $1.7k differential due to indecisiveness and procrastination.
Stocks are running low, so make hay while the sun shines. When you decide to get one, the shops will quote you a price but they will not have stocks!
edhohoho
01-05-2008, 15:23
I made the mistake of waiting when I could get one for $4.3 new and coded 2 months ago. Now, it is $6k, a $1.7k differential due to indecisiveness and procrastination.
Stocks are running low, so make hay while the sun shines. When you decide to get one, the shops will quote you a price but they will not have stocks!
I am not sure exactly how dealers get their allotted stock, but as I mentioned at the beginning of my thread, my local store took several days to get back to me and when they did, they said it would still take 7-10 days to get one so they definitely didn't have one in stock at the time. Then there was a dealer in New York who said he had six on order since March 2007, and another dealer in Australia who had three on order but said the earliest they would get them is March 2008 due to some availability issue of the special glass used in the lens. So I have no idea how the dealer orders will get filled.
Someone also posted on another forum that the Noctilux is in stock at Amazon.com through Ace Photo (or something like that) for $5995. Not sure if that is real stock, but could be.
Olsen: "Today the same guy makes more than 100,000 $ - mostly due to the dollar fall."
The market giveth and the market taketh away. I wouldn't go buying any investment real estate on the strength of that kind of salary. :)
/T
My sister's daughter & husband just bought a flat at Manhattan NY. As a sort of investment and holiday home. From when the day they signed the contract to they transfered the money they saved more than 50.000 NOK (about 9,500 $). Due to the fall of the dollar value in between. One of my clients bought a holiday condo in Florida (some place I don't know the name of) and made a similar deal. So, we are on a buying spree right now.
As for real estate prices here in Oslo, Norway, they have started falling too, but not so drastic as in the US. Here the fall is driven by higher/increased interest rates. Not unemployment and a 15% inflation of energy cost. Further, banks over here are not allowed to push morgages down people's throats that they obviously can't pay back. If they do they can risk loosing the deal.
Roger Hicks
01-06-2008, 01:31
Dear Olsen,
Could you possibly edit your last post into paragraphs? I find the solid block of text almost impossible to read.
Cheers,
R.
Dear Olsen,
Could you possibly edit your last post into paragraphs? I find the solid block of text almost impossible to read.
Cheers,
R. ..... it came out this way 'by itself'. How do I do this/change?
The number of foreclosures and people with debt up to their ears are so large in USA that it is a national problem. Someway and somehow they have to be helped out.
Norwegian law is very clear on this matter; it's the bank's responsibility. They are the professionals that shall evaluate how realistic it is that certain creditors to have finances strong enough to carry a certain debt burden. If they havn't done this job thoroughly the deal is illegal. And it is the bank's and it's shareholders responsibility.
'To indept people' is a smart new (well, old actually) way of enslavement. Look up the 'emerging economies' - like China, Thailand, India etc., and you will find an 'inferno of debt' to ordinary people indebted to banks in hair-raising deals which would be obviously illegal in a civilized country (excuse my expression, 'financial civilization', at least)
Sub prime loans has been big business in USA. The financial world of USA has prospered enormously from this trade, selling 'packages' of these loans on to banks all over the world. It has now come to that banks elsewhere won't take more 'american papers' and the dollar has halved is value in three years and a M8 cost the double of what it normally should. - So, you ordinary americans should have already picked up the bill. At least a part of it.
While millions of US households are struggling with unmanagable mortgage payments, falling house values, Wall Street excecutives are awarding themselves record high bonuses for 2007. Here you find the guys who should really take the responsibility for the deep trouble of these house owners - and the whole of USA, eventually. But that will never happen, it seems to. Because they are politically protected by two political parties that both seems unwilling to send the bill to one of their best beneficiaries of political finance contribution.
It is not small potatoes these excecutives are raking in. Only the four largest investment firms on Wall Street, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers and Bear Sterns have payed out nearly 30 billion US $ to their excecutives (a few hundred people). 30 billion dollars! That is six times the norwegian defense budget. Including all the investment firms on Wall Street and the bonuses is at least up 14% since 2006 and ends at 50 billion dollars. (Compare this to: The entire budget for The City of New York with 250.000 employees are some 57 billion dollars).
That's the sort of pay a few people get to put a whole nation into economical jeopardy. How they can be brought to, at least, contribute to picking up the bill should have been an issue in the forecoming presidential election, but it isn't.
A try to fix it.
I am not sure exactly how dealers get their allotted stock, but as I mentioned at the beginning of my thread, my local store took several days to get back to me and when they did, they said it would still take 7-10 days to get one so they definitely didn't have one in stock at the time.
Wait times for some of us have been very, very long, without any specific date as to delivery. Now, I'm told that Leica has dealers forecasting for the entire year what they need. In essence, get it now, or prepare to wait and see possible further hikes in price as the Noctilux is supposed to go the way of the 75 Lux.
Not sure about the coatings, but with the latest version, at least you are sure to have any updated coating if indeed a change was made over the decades.
A forum member loaned me his (current version) to see whether I would like it. I made up my mind as the handling of the weight was manageable. I got a new one and noticed the different coatings. Anyway, we plan to meet again and do some shooting soon. Perhaps a side by side photo shoot.
Surely an assessment of the value of goods depends in part upon comparing the costs of manufacture to the sale costs. So does anyone know what it costs Leica to make these lenses? Or what profit margin the middlemen (dealers) take? The answers might assist an objective assessment of whether the items represent good "value" for the end buyers (in narrow financial terms of course--obviously "value" can here carry a myriad of other meanings...).
Regards,
D.O'K.
D.O'K.
In my local currency the price of the Noctilux has fallen, people tell me. It cost once 36.000 NOK (VAT incl.). Now it costs 32.000 NOK. So, what price increase are you talking of?
The only thing the Leica managment has been forced to do is to compensate for currency fluctuations between Euros and other currencies. - By the way, I doubt that the Noctilux really has increased in price in £. Have you checked this?
Further; Leica is hardly making a profit at all, untill 2007. Up until then they sold us the goods for less the price it cost to make & distribute it.
Nice of'em, he?
johnastovall
01-06-2008, 05:56
You are absolutely right. It will be nothing but blood, sweat and tears.
- And that is why I warn particularly norwegian students studying in USA who might have found a girl/boyfriend over there and are considdering staying: 'Come home!'. I also give this advice to young americans; 'try your luck in Europe'. It is a far better place to live. At least for a generation or two.
Sorry, but I have no belief in that 'tax cuts' are the right medicine for USA today. All the 'high quality' nations I know of (Denmark, Sweden, etc.) have 'high taxes'. Taxes should be increased. Particularly higher taxes for the super rich and within the energy sector and the financial world, like taxes or fees on stock trade and lifting the tax free status on oil consessions. - The last president who tried this drove past The Grassy Knoll in Dallas. And that was it. It hasn't been tried since.
This is one American who wishes, he could try his luck in Europe.... This used to be a "Hell'va good country." but not any more. I keep hearing Provence calling or Portugal or Spain or even Chile or Uraguay when I look South rather than East.
..... it came out this way 'by itself'. How do I do this/change?
Find a Norwegian government agency to do it for you or ask one of us dumb enslaved Americans.
Bob
Find a Norwegian government agency to do it for you or ask one of us dumb enslaved Americans.
Bob
All the norwegian government agencies are closed for the weekend so, I am stuck with the enslaved Americans. Could you rattle with your chains a little and try to explain to me 'what went wrong' with that post?
whitecat
01-06-2008, 08:10
I have heard the "new" Noct's we are seeing now were made years ago. Any comments on this?
Well the components may have been made years ago (specifically the glass) but the lenses were probably assembled recently.
Agree.
I don't believe completely in excuses such as euro/dollar or discontinued lens element. If euro/dollar is to be blamed, why no price increase for Summarits and $500 for Noctilux in the latest price adjustment?
The currency fluctuation is the major reason. With the value of the dollar falling from € 1,10 baack in 2001 to € 0,65 today, that's pritty obvious. If the Leica managment hadn't compensated for a 40% fall in the US$ (and currencies following the US dollar as; Singapore dollar, Thai Bat, Malaysian Ringit, Chinese Yan etc. etc.) Leica would have been bankrupt long ago.
Difference in the level of increase from product to product could have other reasons.
You are absolutely right. It will be nothing but blood, sweat and tears.
- And that is why I warn particularly norwegian students studying in USA who might have found a girl/boyfriend over there and are considdering staying: 'Come home!'. I also give this advice to young americans; 'try your luck in Europe'. It is a far better place to live. At least for a generation or two.
Sorry, but I have no belief in that 'tax cuts' are the right medicine for USA today. All the 'high quality' nations I know of (Denmark, Sweden, etc.) have 'high taxes'. Taxes should be increased. Particularly higher taxes for the super rich and within the energy sector and the financial world, like taxes or fees on stock trade and lifting the tax free status on oil consessions. - The last president who tried this drove past The Grassy Knoll in Dallas. And that was it. It hasn't been tried since.
I like where I am thank you
I'm glad you like where you are too
That means we can all be happy.
Roger Hicks
01-06-2008, 10:39
I like where I am thank you
I'm glad you like where you are too
That means we can all be happy.
Seconded.
Would there were more of us.
Cheers,
R.
Thanks to generous folks like MikeL and myself, we are keeping these rare units available at sub dealer prices (last time I checked).
But you're correct if someone wants/needs one of these, it will just be more expensive later.
Wait times for some of us have been very, very long, without any specific date as to delivery. Now, I'm told that Leica has dealers forecasting for the entire year what they need. In essence, get it now, or prepare to wait and see possible further hikes in price as the Noctilux is supposed to go the way of the 75 Lux.
I like where I am thank you
I'm glad you like where you are too
That means we can all be happy.
But at least it's comforting to know that some Norwegians seem to care so much about the USA and are always ready to provide their invaluable (:rolleyes: ) advice for free.........
Hi Olsen,
These are fine opinions and may be relevant and useful for the current times, but things change fast.
We have some Norwegian friends who have done very well here, came with very little 20 years ago, benefited from the tech bubble, put their kids through public colleges here, own 3 mercedes, and a house that has European style heating and would cost ~5-10M USD in the bay area, if you could find one available with the acreage.
On top of that, their parents both died with diseases, that they feel would have been diagnosed sooner, and treated better if their parents were here in the US.
So the advice you're giving students now, may not be applicable if/when things hopefully get better here.
Also, doesn't the weather suck in Norway? :D
You are absolutely right. It will be nothing but blood, sweat and tears.
- And that is why I warn particularly norwegian students studying in USA who might have found a girl/boyfriend over there and are considdering staying: 'Come home!'. I also give this advice to young americans; 'try your luck in Europe'. It is a far better place to live. At least for a generation or two.
Sorry, but I have no belief in that 'tax cuts' are the right medicine for USA today. All the 'high quality' nations I know of (Denmark, Sweden, etc.) have 'high taxes'. Taxes should be increased. Particularly higher taxes for the super rich and within the energy sector and the financial world, like taxes or fees on stock trade and lifting the tax free status on oil consessions. - The last president who tried this drove past The Grassy Knoll in Dallas. And that was it. It hasn't been tried since.
Hi Olsen,
These are fine opinions and may be relevant and useful for the current times, but things change fast.
We have some Norwegian friends who have done very well here, came with very little 20 years ago, benefited from the tech bubble, put their kids through public colleges here, own 3 mercedes, and a house that has European style heating and would cost ~5-10M USD in the bay area, if you could find one available with the acreage.
On top of that, their parents both died with diseases, that they feel would have been diagnosed sooner, and treated better if their parents were here in the US.
So the advice you're giving students now, may not be applicable if/when things hopefully get better here.
Also, doesn't the weather suck in Norway? :D
let me tell you, I can't wait to get back to the bay, the weather is so cold and bleak here on the east coast it's unbearably depressing sometimes.
I've been messing around with a 4x5 view camera to pass the time. :D
Hi Olsen,
These are fine opinions and may be relevant and useful for the current times, but things change fast.
We have some Norwegian friends who have done very well here, came with very little 20 years ago, benefited from the tech bubble, put their kids through public colleges here, own 3 mercedes, and a house that has European style heating and would cost ~5-10M USD in the bay area, if you could find one available with the acreage.
On top of that, their parents both died with diseases, that they feel would have been diagnosed sooner, and treated better if their parents were here in the US.
So the advice you're giving students now, may not be applicable if/when things hopefully get better here.
Also, doesn't the weather suck in Norway? :D
Sure. Quite a few Norwegians are doing well in USA. Students studying at US universities marry Americans and stay on. That's the typical. Or they have and education - or business that does not offer that much over here. I know of at least three Norwegian dollar billionairs living & working in USA, like the Stolt-Nielsen family - within shipping. But if you are rich you will be fine just everywhere. Still: According to American statistics (Forbes) Norway is the country in the world with the highest rate of dollar millionairs. So, it is easier to 'make it' over here, on a more modest scale.
For more ordinary people, and a far bit up, the situation is drastically better over here. Due to a better public service and a national economy that produces a economical surplus. Not a deficit. Ordinary Norwegians don't have to pay the huge cost of any 'federal debt'. On the contrary, the Norwegian state has a huge fortune which covers pension costs and long term public investments. Relatively speaking; taxes are lower over here when the cost of healthcare, pension funds and education is included. Far lower!
One of my neighbours is an architect from Dallas, Texas. He and his wife are very glad to be tied to the lavish Norwegian healthcare and pension system. They say it is 'impossible' to buy something equal on the market in USA. His problem is his old parents back home with insufficient health care coverage - with huge health expenditures which he has to cover. A heart operation for his father cost the price of what a Mercedes costs over here. - Here a heart operation is practically free. You even get the taxi bills going to and fro hospital covered.
The Norwegian health care system is public and all their documentation from budgets to quality control is public matters available to all. Their quality can be compared to similar establishments - as long as their matters are public too. Researchers - and not the least the press, spend a lot of time digging in this in this information. If the health care system had been run by private companies this information would have been company secrets.
It could well be that the parents of your friends could have had their cancers discovered earlier, but it is just a hypotetical claim. What is a challange for the Norwegian health care system is hefty cost increases the last few years. Still it is about half the cost of the health care system of USA - relatively compared.
When it comes to the weather; I can confirm that it is lousy. Right now we have the darkest time of the year with daylight only 6 hours per day even as far south as Oslo. A snowstorm hit us this weekend and I had to spend hours digging out our cars. And yes, there was a little patch of blue sky up there. I took a picture of it for all to see. It is documented below.
Don't misunderstand me. I love USA. America for me is the beautiful national parks of the west, - and John Steinbeck's Cannary Row. Happy one can be just anywhere. But the economical situation is going to be tough on ordinary people. That's my message.
The picture is from down-town-Oslo this afternoon. M8 with a 35 mm 2,0 Cron. An excellent lense. Far better than any Noctilux, by the way.
Olsen, I know it's dark over there and you need to talk and stuff, but isn't there a EconomicsFinderForum.com or TheSkyIsFallingAndIKnowItAndYouDon't.com forum somewhere or something like it? Uh, thanks though.......;)
Sure. Quite a few Norwegians are doing well in USA. Students studying at US universities marry Americans and stay on. That's the typical. Or they have and education - or business that does not offer that much over here. I know of at least three Norwegian dollar billionairs living & working in USA, like the Stolt-Nielsen family - within shipping. But if you are rich you will be fine just everywhere. Still: According to American statistics (Forbes) Norway is the country in the world with the highest rate of dollar millionairs. So, it is easier to 'make it' over here, on a more modest scale.
For more ordinary people, and a far bit up, the situation is drastically better over here. Due to a better public service and a national economy that produces a economical surplus. Not a deficit. Ordinary Norwegians don't have to pay the huge cost of any 'federal debt'. On the contrary, the Norwegian state has a huge fortune which covers pension costs and long term public investments. Relatively speaking; taxes are lower over here when the cost of healthcare, pension funds and education is included. Far lower!
One of my neighbours is an architect from Dallas, Texas. He and his wife are very glad to be tied to the lavish Norwegian healthcare and pension system. They say it is 'impossible' to buy something equal on the market in USA. His problem is his old parents back home with insufficient health care coverage - with huge health expenditures which he has to cover. A heart operation for his father cost the price of what a Mercedes costs over here. - Here a heart operation is practically free. You even get the taxi bills going to and fro hospital covered.
The Norwegian health care system is public and all their documentation from budgets to quality control is public matters available to all. Their quality can be compared to similar establishments - as long as their matters are public too. Researchers - and not the least the press, spend a lot of time digging in this in this information. If the health care system had been run by private companies this information would have been company secrets.
It could well be that the parents of your friends could have had their cancers discovered earlier, but it is just a hypotetical claim. What is a challange for the Norwegian health care system is hefty cost increases the last few years. Still it is about half the cost of the health care system of USA - relatively compared.
When it comes to the weather; I can confirm that it is lousy. Right now we have the darkest time of the year with daylight only 6 hours per day even as far south as Oslo. A snowstorm hit us this weekend and I had to spend hours digging out our cars. And yes, there was a little patch of blue sky up there. I took a picture of it for all to see. It is documented below.
Don't misunderstand me. I love USA. America for me is the beautiful national parks of the west, - and John Steinbeck's Cannary Row. Happy one can be just anywhere. But the economical situation is going to be tough on ordinary people. That's my message.
The picture is from down-town-Oslo this afternoon. M8 with a 35 mm 2,0 Cron. An excellent lense. Far better than any Noctilux, by the way.
let me tell you, I can't wait to get back to the bay, the weather is so cold and bleak here on the east coast it's unbearably depressing sometimes.
I've been messing around with a 4x5 view camera to pass the time. :D
Back in 1991 I drove with a friend of mine from LA along the Big Sur to San Fransisco, and onwards to Lake Tahoe, Yosemite, Death Valley, Las Vegas, - and onwards, almost across USA. We have a lot of coast line here in Norway, but I have never seen anything so beautiful as the Big Sur. Very beautiful. And also San Fransisco. A very unique place. I can imagine that you are homesick.
Olsen, I know it's dark over there and you need to talk and stuff, but isn't there a EconomicsFinderForum.com or TheSkyIsFallingAndIKnowItAndYouDon't.com forum somewhere or something like it? Uh, thanks though.......;)
well, æhum, mike, what I am doing is to explain why a Noctilux hardly has increased in price over here, while it has nearly doubled in price 'over there'. And why. The sky hasn't fallen down. The dollar has.
well, æhum, mike, what I am doing is to explain why a Noctilux hardly has increased in price over here, while it has nearly doubled in price 'over there'. And why. The sky hasn't fallen down. The dollar has.
Noctilux price in Germany, incl VAT, in 2002: 2500 Euro, in 2008: 4795 Euro. But price "has hardly increased in ol Europe", if you really meant what you wrote. Looking at the 5 year NOK versus Euro chart, I would assume that NOK price increases over the same time period were at least as steep as the Euro ones.
:D
Noctilux price in Germany, incl VAT, in 2002: 2500 Euro, in 2008: 4795 Euro. But price "has hardly increased in ol Europe", if I you really meant what you wrote. Looking at the 5 year NOK versus Euro chart, I would assume that NOK price increases over the same time period were at least as steep as the Euro ones.
:D
Easily explained by the drop in the Euro relative to the Euro. :confused:
Uhh, wait a minute, have those latest price increases been felt in Germany too? Only Norway is immune to Leica-flation?
Easily explained by the drop in the Euro relative to the Euro. :confused:
Uhh, wait a minute, have those latest price increases been felt in Germany too? Only Norway is immune to Leica-flation?
Maybe a government agency prevents price increases from being forced on consumers.............
I had no clue that a Noctilux costs that much! I enjoyed using such a lens as a loaner when I compared 50mm lenses. If I had known the cost of the lens, I may have refused such a generous loaner lens.
Noctilux price in Germany, incl VAT, in 2002: 2500 Euro, in 2008: 4795 Euro. But price "has hardly increased in ol Europe", if I you really meant what you wrote. Lokking at the 5 year NOK versus Euro chart, I would assume that NOK price increases over the same time period were at least as steep as the Euro ones.
:D
If your figures are right (they could well be), a Noctilux should have cost NOK 21.250 (excl tax) back in 2002. I am 100% certain the price was far higher here in Norway back then. More like more than 30.000 NOK. I bought my Canon EF 50 mm 1,0L back then at 25.000 NOK and noted that the Noct was about 30% more expensive. Why, I don't know. € 4795 should be 36.400 NOK today, but shops here in Oslo advertise them for 33.442. This price was more than 36.000 NOK a year ago. The highest rate between € and NOK was NOK 8,55 back in 2001 and has been lower than NOK 7,45 during 2007. That's a 11% drop of the € value. The € was on it's way back up again before Christmas, but is now falling again towards NOK.
I had no clue that a Noctilux costs that much! I enjoyed using such a lens as a loaner when I compared 50mm lenses. If I had known the cost of the lens, I may have refused such a generous loaner lens.
I never thought a Noctilux would cost more than the collectible Nikkor 50mm f1.1.
Maybe a government agency prevents price increases from being forced on consumers.............
We are blessed with a strong currency. - Just as the Americans have for ages. That's the works of the international currency market. The govermnent agency part of it is a hefty sales tax here in Norway of 20%. - That's why so many Norwegians go abroad and buy expensive camera equipment.
We are blessed with a strong currency. - Just as the Americans have for ages. That's the works of the international currency market. The govermnent agency part of it is a hefty sales tax here in Norway of 20%. - That's why so many Norwegians go abroad and buy expensive camera equipment.
???But why would they, now that you just have proven that the only country immune to Leica price increases is Norway,......I'm really confused now:p
???But why would they, now that you just have proven that the only country immune to Leica price increases is Norway,......I'm really confused now:p
Me too - I was thinking of booking a flight to Oslo to buy a few Noctiluxes (or is that Noctili?) at the 2002 price! I could dig up the kroners I have buried out back... :D
Olsen
I am American. I live in the US. I work for a company headquartered in Oslo. Some of my best friends are Norwegian. I have spent many months there. Your points are good..we Americans will fix our problems, we have done it before.
You just seem to forget to mention where the wealth comes from for your government...the government owned oil resources my friend makes it easy to not be in a deficit and to provide nice pension, healthcare and education services ;-)
Now let's talk about cameras eh?
I never thought a Noctilux would cost more than the collectible Nikkor 50mm f1.1.
Mike,
I got the Nikkor also as a loaner and at the same time as the Noctilux. I had no time then that the Nikkor was of such a high value too.
???But why would they, now that you just have proven that the only country immune to Leica price increases is Norway,......I'm really confused now:p
Norwegian amateurs can avoid paying the 20% sales tax if they buy camera gear outside EU. Pro's get the sales tax refunded. That is why this large group of Norwegian photo enthusiast went to NY to buy camera gear back in October. Back then US dealers hadn't compensated for the, then recent, dollar fall and camera equipment were very cheap compared to Europe.
Olsen
I am American. I live in the US. I work for a company headquartered in Oslo. Some of my best friends are Norwegian. I have spent many months there. Your points are good..we Americans will fix our problems, we have done it before.
You just seem to forget to mention where the wealth comes from for your government...the government owned oil resources my friend makes it easy to not be in a deficit and to provide nice pension, healthcare and education services ;-)
Now let's talk about cameras eh?
- ??
The wealth comes from private companies noted on Oslo Stock Exchange, NYSE and elsewhere.
- Yes, let's talk cameras.
Oh, and Tom: I thought you bought the EF 50mm f/1.0 for "a song"?
http://photo.net/equipment/canon/50-1.0.html
I did. I bought mine 2.hand together with othe lenses from this devorcee. Which is why I checked what the price was new. - I had no idea at the point of transfer what it was worth.
Well, I live in Norway, and I'm not sure that the price fall of the latest years should be made to be more significant then they are. The fact that the Noctilux were waaaaaaaaay overpriced here in Norway in 2002 doesn't mean that we're celebrating the recent "drop" in prices. My guess is that the dealers have been forced to reduce their margins, which is no surprise at all. Not that I would buy from them anyway - PhotoVillage and PopFlash are way better.
That could well be. I am going to visit Interfoto/Farnes one of these days to see if they can tune my M8 to my Noctilux which back-focuses - and aske them.
On the other hand; are you - and others - absolutely sure that a Noctilux cost 2.500$/€2,500 back in 2002? Sounds very cheap compared to prices here in Norway.
As far as I remember Euro was introduced late 2001 or early 2002.
Any plans on selling the Noctilux Tom?
No, but Erik, this Noctilux is not much of a lense. Buy instead the WATE for sale on foto.no. That's a lense! I'll keep my Noctilux and Canon EF 50 mm 1,0L just as a 'kuriositet'.
Buy instead the WATE for sale on foto.no. That's a lense!
At the 18mm focal length it got spanked pretty good by the new ZM 18/4.5, according to Reid Reviews. The Leica was better in the corners, but the Zeiss absolutely smacked it in the center of the frame. :)
The Wate is to slow. I dont think I will ever own the Noctilux. To expensive. Cant justify buying it over 35 and 50 summilux asph as I have mentioned earlier.
I use my WATE 'ten times as much' as the Noctilux - which backfocuses with about 10 cm on 2 meters. So, it is a bit troublesome to use. The Canon alternative is close to impossble to focus manually. - At least with my eyesight. You have to trust the AF, which works OK. It is not that many Leica enthusiasts here in Norway, Erik. A Noctilux just might come along....
But the WATE, Erik! Don't let that one get away!
Attached picture of the two monsters: The Canon 1Ds II w/EF 50 mm 1,0L and my MP with the Noctilux.
WATE ... please spell out what it stands for.
Is it the Tri-Elmar lens?
whitecat
01-07-2008, 08:32
I had a noct but did not like the super critical focusing at F/1. Too many out of focus pictures. I know it was my eyes and not the lens.
Olsen
I am American. I live in the US. I work for a company headquartered in Oslo. Some of my best friends are Norwegian. I have spent many months there. Your points are good..we Americans will fix our problems, we have done it before.
You just seem to forget to mention where the wealth comes from for your government...the government owned oil resources my friend makes it easy to not be in a deficit and to provide nice pension, healthcare and education services ;-)
Now let's talk about cameras eh?
John, just a last one, if you permit. About happy Americans or US residents of whatever nationality, incl myself:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ibd/080102/issues01.html?.v=1&.pf=personal-finance
:D
John, just a last one, if you permit. About happy Americans or US residents of whatever nationality, incl myself:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ibd/080102/issues01.html?.v=1&.pf=personal-finance
:D
Sorry,
But I don't believe in Timbro.
From the article:
The U.S. is, to borrow a phrase, the happiest place on Earth.
The article was from Investor's Business Daily, for cryin' out loud, what do you expect they would say? Another great example of doing 'research' to support your pre-existing viewpoint.
Look here, gents, in this study we just bought and paid for, working stiffs are happy as clams! :rolleyes:
And Timbro is a Swedish "think tank" (god, do I hate that term) for free-market capitalists.
Just more "booster pep" and "Babbitry" from people who don't know what those terms mean.
From the article:
The article was from Investor's Business Daily, for cryin' out loud, what do you expect they would say? Another great example of doing 'research' to support your pre-existing viewpoint.
Look here, gents, in this study we just bought and paid for, working stiffs are happy as clams! :rolleyes:
And Timbro is a Swedish "think tank" (god, do I hate that term) for free-market capitalists.
Just more "booster pep" and "Babbitry" from people who don't know what those terms mean.
Timbro is, what I would call a ultra conservative organisation promoting a 'free' trade and a 'free' market. They are continually gulping up svada in a professional packaging; political propaganda promoted as 'science' which is bogus.
But...
There is a difference in - say - attitude, between North/west Europeans and Americans . Pure American optimism or 'happiness' is too simple a word for it. Whenever a Swede or Norwegian looses his job - or other mishaps, there is always a social security office with all these professional programs - and litterally billions to their disposal to help him or her out. A typical front page of a Swedish or Norwegian newspaper shows sombody sobbing and complaining, despite all these elegant social programs. Americans are far more used to helping themselves. Indeed, this is not only a bad thing. It creates an energy which you share with emerging economies.
That's one part of it. Americans are more polite and kinder to eachother, generally, a thing that suprised me, considdering that USA is a much tougher environment for 'employees' and people in general. You are decent people, simply. - Which is one of the reasons that Americans get jobs - and make friends, in Europe so easily.
Americans have inventiveness and the energy to drive ideas through and make huge business sucesses 'out of thin air'. Like Microsoft, Oracle, Apple, Adobe etc.
I will never doubt that 'USA will come back'. What I hope for is a more just deal where there is something for everybody. Not just a small elite.
Cant justify buying it over 35 and 50 summilux asph as I have mentioned earlier.
Yes you can. Sell your Canon 0.95!
The Canon alternative is close to impossble to focus manually.
Sell it! Bring it on your next trip to Singapore. I'll take it off you.
Sell it! Bring it on your next trip to Singapore. I'll take it off you.
Do you have Canon SLR equipment too? Sorry, Hacker, but neither of my aparture 1,0 lenses are for sale. I plan going to Singapore in March. Havn't booked tickets yet, but guess we will stay in Singapore during Easter, 21. 22. of March. We are going to Kota Baru to meet a friend and will stay at (our beloved) Tioman Island for two weeks or so.
Do you have Canon SLR equipment too? Sorry, Hacker, but neither of my aparture 1,0 lenses are for sale. I plan going to Singapore in March. Havn't booked tickets yet, but guess we will stay in Singapore during Easter, 21. 22. of March. We are going to Kota Baru to meet a friend and will stay at (our beloved) Tioman Island for two weeks or so.
Maybe we can meet up?
I used to have the 5D and a whole bunch of L lenses. I sold everything because of my Tennis Elbow condition. I guess I may be better by March and may relook at an SLR rig.
Maybe we can meet up?
Sure.
I will keep you posted regarding when we will be in Singapore. We usually stay at Conrad Hotel, by Suntec City. Is that far away from where you are living?
And you would be the buyer?:D
A Canon 0,95 is a very unque lense. How does it work? Is it with Leica M bayonette?
Sure.
I will keep you posted regarding when we will be in Singapore. We usually stay at Conrad Hotel, by Suntec City. Is that far away from where you are living?
Singapore is so small, everywhere is considered near. ABout 12 minutes away (by car).
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