View Full Version : No Love for the Summitar?
Big Hairy Bee
12-07-2007, 07:59
Having just acquired my first RF a IIIF with a 50 Summitar I am curious as to the praise for the Elmar and the Summicron and Summar but little mention of the Summitar. Should I look into one of these other lenses?
Harry
Having just acquired my first RF a IIIF with a 50 Summitar I am curious as to the praise for the Elmar and the Summicron and Summar but little mention of the Summitar. Should I look into one of these other lenses?
Harry
---No, not necessarily. The Summitar is the immediate forerunner of the Collapsible Summicron, which is slightly improved. But the Summitar has plenty of admirers! Sherry Krauter, for one, says it is a fine lens. I think you should use it for a while, with Black & White and Color, before making any changes. You might just be very happy with it!
It's a good lens. You're lucky if you have a sample without cleaning marks or internal hazing. I have one with some haze. It flares like crazy and has ruined more shots than I like because of that. This lens is beautiful when used for portraits, wide-open and close.
Have a look at this thread for samples and discussion.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39364
Yeah, they are pretty soft lenses too. One of my favorite vintage screw-mounts however...
rumbliegeos
12-07-2007, 08:24
Congratulations, that is the combination that I started with in Leica as well. I think there are plenty of Summitar fans in the forum, but Elmars in particular are very attractive to use because they are so compact, light, and original to the earlier models. I had a later coated one for a while, and it was a nice lens, but that example definitely was not as sharp as the Summitar.
Something that is not discussed often is that there is a variation in Summitars that could affect one aspect of performance: some have 6 blade apertures, and others have rounder apertures. My Summitar has a very sharp in focus rendition, but some pretty wild bokeh. BTW, does the Summitar follow a standard lens formula, i.e. Gauss, Planar, etc?
Mmmm.. I have a uncoated summitar which flares like Travolta's trousers (without the barndoor hood - much improved without).
Having said that, it has a look which none of my modern lenses have:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=58730
and another attached.
Philippe D.
12-07-2007, 08:52
Welcome to the club Harry!Having just acquired my first RF a IIIF with a 50 Summitar I am curious as to the praise for the Elmar and the Summicron and Summar but little mention of the Summitar. Should I look into one of these other lenses?I also had a Summitar with my 1st IIIc, i sold it away and got a "yellow" Summicron instead.
Now i have a Summarit (clean and sharp), a Summar (for women's portraits, so i can make a lot girl friends with) ;)
The other screw lens are 35mm Summaron on IIIf too.
Nikon Bob
12-07-2007, 09:06
Harry
Give the Summitar a good workout before you decide you need another 50. I have found both my examples good enough that I didn't bother to get an M mount 50 for my M4.
Bob
Harry,
the Summitar is my prime lens. Lately, I've sold my Summicron (rigid) which was in perfect optical condition, but I kept the Summitar. I can't imagine selling it ... only big money issues could lead me to sell it. I posted some pictures here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=695238#post695238
Keep the summitar, explore/exploit its capacities, you'll love it for sure.
Enjoy.
I was wondering when you would post here Marc ;-)
I don't own a summitar, but I certainly like the photos I've seen taken w/ it, including ones by the other posters on this thread. If your summitar is in good shape, you may be very pleasantly surprised at what it can do! It may be just the lens for you.
I was wondering when you would post here Marc ;-)
LOL, you know when I hear "Summitar", I'm like Pavlov's dog :D
Gabriel M.A.
12-07-2007, 09:36
Having just acquired my first RF a IIIF with a 50 Summitar I am curious as to the praise for the Elmar and the Summicron and Summar but little mention of the Summitar. Should I look into one of these other lenses?
Am I right to assume that you already think that there's no love for the Summitar?
I'm wondering because of your thread question, but you're not elaborating on it.
I also wonder whether there's the (very common) confusion between the Summitar and the Summarit going on here?
rumbliegeos
12-07-2007, 09:37
Here is some lichen on a Scottish crofthouse ruin, seen through a post-war, coated Summitar, equipped with a hood (the original is better).
gerry
Hey Gabriel!
You have lots of great summitar photos. Has that lens been overhauled or is it just a great example?
Big Hairy Bee
12-07-2007, 09:56
Am I right to assume that you already think that there's no love for the Summitar?
I'm wondering because of your thread question, but you're not elaborating on it.
I also wonder whether there's the (very common) confusion between the Summitar and the Summarit going on here?
I wasn't passing judgement at all, just curious as to why the Summitar doesn't seem to come up as frequent as the others. I am too new to this to do that. I like mine a lot so far and I am going to do some color after seeing some of the shots in this thread (esp Kully's). I wouldn't ditch mine for another lens, merely add another 50 for different situations.
My coated summitar has an awesome look to it and is very sharp with a pleasing OOF area. I haven't shot it a lot wide open, but all the images seem fine and is a great bargain.
If I were still on a super tight budget (as I was when I bought my iiic) it could suffice as my only lens. No slouch as others have said being it is the kissing cousin of the collapsible summicron.
Here it is under studio light:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdbrekke/350518505/
One in room light:
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/615/0799022r1e009vz7.jpg
Another:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=46853&ppuser=6210
It is my only screw-mount lens and sits on my iiic although I have an adapter and use it on the M6 now and then. Alas, I don't use the iiic very often...
I owned a Summarit at one time and eventually traded it for a Summitar because of problems with my particular Summarit. The Summitar aperture ring was stiff, so I had the lens serviced and it is a fine performer. My favorite lenses for my Leica IIIf RD are the Summitar and a late model Jupiter 12.
Jim N.
In a way, Summitar photos look very similar to Noctilux photos :)
It has become kind of a cult lens in the last two years.
David Murphy
12-07-2007, 10:53
There are plenty of posts here lauding the Summitar, including some from me. It's a fantastic lens. Their resale values here and on eBay reflect that -- they are expensive, even examples in poor condition.
Having just acquired my first RF a IIIF with a 50 Summitar I am curious as to the praise for the Elmar and the Summicron and Summar but little mention of the Summitar. Should I look into one of these other lenses?
Harry
Wish I hadn't sold mine...
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/151/395600173_063854b354.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/146/415038660_e1e73a9088.jpg
Nikon Bob
12-07-2007, 12:47
Some have mentioned that the Summitar is a close relative of the Summicron. It can be virtually identical if you luck out on a very late production Summitar which should be , from what I have read, a sort of pre release of the Summicron. Not bad company at all.
Bob
If one has a cloudy Summitar, send it to Sherry! Mine is most improved. Does anyone know if anyone makes a screw-in shade for this? I know it would be difficult with the odd thread. Please advise.
johne
vdonovan
12-07-2007, 14:41
I enjoy shooting with mine. It definitely has its own look, which I think of as "soft sharpness". It has an extremely shallow depth of field when wide open.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2384/2090014219_a0d98a867a_b.jpg
It definitely has its own look, which I think of as "soft sharpness".
"soft sharpness", excellent! That describes the Summitar so well.
Thanks.
Some have mentioned that the Summitar is a close relative of the Summicron. It can be virtually identical if you luck out on a very late production Summitar which should be , from what I have read, a sort of pre release of the Summicron. Not bad company at all.
Bob
Those "early Summicrons" were sold as Summitars which had a "*" in the serial number.
Jim N.
rumbliegeos
12-07-2007, 16:57
"Does anyone know if anyone makes a screw-in shade for this? I know it would be difficult with the odd thread. Please advise."
Leica made an adapter, coded SNHOO (I think) that would permit fitting 39mm accessories to Summitars. They occasionally appear on fleabay, but sell for much more than a run of the mill step up ring. B+W makes 39mm collapsible hoods, but the ones that I like the most are sold by heavystar (can't remember his exact seller name) on ebay. I think 39mm hoods are also available on Cameraquest.
Another option is a Series 6 to Summitar adapter ring, and by coincidence, I am about to sell one in the classifieds.
gerry
Dektol Dan
12-07-2007, 17:53
Summitars are bitching lenses and the are not soft f4 and above where they are superb. However, they exhibit curvature of field like 35 (which I LOVE).
They did not age gracefully and quality from lens to lens varies greatly. The best are the coated '47 through '49 without the old hex Summar iris. A good one kills the early Summicrons. They do NOT flare as bad as commonly reported and are not any worse that any other lens for flare of the era. However, the slightest haze will make them a flare monster. With low contrast negative film or black and white killer contrast can be had in the dark room or Photoshop. Scanned they make for perfectly noise free images. That ability has made them born again.
The best hood is a Series VI Canon 50mm from the era.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7663238@N04/2060621642/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7663238@N04/2060620602/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7663238@N04/2059840587/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7663238@N04/2060620060/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7663238@N04/2060618170/
PM me on the adaptor.
johne
Nikon Bob
12-07-2007, 20:25
gerry
Lifa brand round screw in lens hoods for the Summitar can sometimes be found.
Bob
Big Hairy Bee
12-07-2007, 20:25
Lotsa love for the Summitar! I stand corrected...
David Murphy
12-08-2007, 01:00
Wartime Summitar shots done a few days ago on a Leica III and ISO 200 film from the 99-cent store. Villas in Pasadena, CA.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t161/wanchaiboy/rff/ScanImage9-1.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t161/wanchaiboy/rff/scanondiimage3.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t161/wanchaiboy/rff/ScanImage18.jpg
LeicaTom
12-08-2007, 01:22
I LOVE my Summitar!
http://www.members.aol.com/Winkermeister/emillyflappercolor.jpeg
The beautiful Emilia Maria
shot here on Fuji color 100ASA @ 500/sec f2.0 *wide open* using a uncoated "wartime" 1940 Summitar on a 1945 Leica IIIC "Kugellager" ball bearing shutter -non K stamped serial number camera
I`ve tossed around the idea of selling this lens, while it needs new felt in the barrel (it knocks around a bit) and needs a general CLA, but the perfomance really has me hooked .....this one`s a "keeper"
(the uncoated "warttime" versions of the Summitar are pretty rare and not easy to find like this one is.......having minty glass)
Enjoy!
Tom
Paul Michael Dicks
12-08-2007, 08:00
I have the proper Summitar UV filter screwed into the front of mine. The lens hood 12585 will then clip over the filter mount.
my Summitar came with a lovely IIIc ... it does not seem to be worth enough to sell it - it's uncoated ... and I love the vintage colour and pictorial quaility . A Fed Elmar coated copy [ ''free'' with a Fed 2b ] is a sharper and '' brighter '' than my Elmar and Summitar , but when i buy a more modern 50mm , they will all find a place on my M 8 ...
dee
My clean and coated '46 Summitar came with my IIIf RD. I haven't used it a lot, but so far I'm pleased with the "soft sharpness" that Vince referred to. I plan to get an adaptor to use it on my M6 TTL. I want a collapsable 50mm for that, and until I can get an Elmar, it might keep me happy.
http://www.pbase.com/marke/image/88882837/original.jpg
Gabriel M.A.
12-15-2007, 08:52
Yep, lots of love for the Summitar.
It was my second Leica lens (my first is the tabbed 50mm Summicron). It's gonna be a long-lasting affair...
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/59/181557279_08de829866_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gabrielma/181557279/)
Leica M6 + 50mm Summitar @ f/2 / Ilford XP2
So what's the rank of your Summilux Gabriel? I've already told you: if you don't know what to do with it, I know a new home for it ;-)
Gabriel M.A.
12-15-2007, 14:45
So what's the rank of your Summilux Gabriel? I've already told you: if you don't know what to do with it, I know a new home for it ;-)
He he. Riiight. Well, I wasn't ranking them, it was just an "order of appearance" comment. I think my Summilux was my... mmm... 20th? RF lens acquisition.
I use that one most of the time; it hardly ever stays home.
My most loved lenses are the Summilux, Summitar, Summarit and Summicron (all 50mm). I think if I had an M-mount or LTM Zeiss Sonnar, it'd be at least right above the Summarit. I like my C-mount 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar a lot; the mount is an inconvenience (even with the adapter).
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