View Full Version : Does it happen to you that your most popular pics are NOT those you like most ?
Does it happen to you that your most popular pics are NOT those you like most ?
It happens to me since I started to photograph. Why is that ?
Cheers,
Ruben
Jamie123
11-12-2007, 01:03
When I look at the popularity ranking on my flickr page the one with the most favourites is definitely one of my personal favourites, too. However, quite a lot of my more popular pics are rather boring in my own opinion and I know that they only rank high due to cheap tricks like pretty colors and/or shallow DoF. :)
Bobfrance
11-12-2007, 01:16
If you're talking about the RFF gallery. I believe an image with strong contrast/clolours and simple forms gets more views. These elements help people discern the image when displayed in its small thumbnail view and will make them more likely to click on it to view it larger. Of course such elements may not ultimately always make for the best image.
Then again pictures with women in them always get loads of views. I have no idea why that coud be. ;)
To counter balance your opinions about the public, let me recall the great David Vestal, who stated we the photographers are very bad editors of our images. Why?
Cheers,
Ruben
It is often difficult to be objective about one's own work. Then again, who are the viewers? On RFF, for example, pictures are seen by other photographers. This is not true of the worlds we live in. Evaluation is based on widely different criteria.
petronius
11-12-2007, 02:30
When looking at our photographs, we can recall the whole process of taking and making the final result. Other onlookers only see the result and not the way to it.
To counter balance your opinions about the public, let me recall the great David Vestal, who stated we the photographers are very bad editors of our images. Why?
Cheers,
Ruben
Could it be that as the maker you’re better informed about how and why you made the image? To the uninformed viewer it is simply a picture, to the photographer there’s a story attached to it; maybe?
Do you still feel the same with your older work? With 20 year old contact sheets I find I have a completely different opinion as to which are worth printing today
Bobfrance
11-12-2007, 03:24
I read that Gary Winogrand held back on developing his film for years for that very reason.
Me, I just can't wait to see what the images come out like.
wyk_penguin
11-12-2007, 03:55
Pretty much what everyone else said. When I look at a foggy picture of a hilltop, I remember the 12 h hike; other people see a ruined sunrise pic.
If you're talking about the RFF gallery. I believe an image with strong contrast/clolours and simple forms gets more views. These elements help people discern the image when displayed in its small thumbnail view and will make them more likely to click on it to view it larger. Of course such elements may not ultimately always make for the best image.
I have to agree with that. And would add that even a 700 pixel wide jpeg doesn't do justice to most pictures.
[QUOTE]To counter balance your opinions about the public, let me recall the great David Vestal, who stated we the photographers are very bad editors of our images. Why?
Have to ask David Vestal.
When I look at a foggy picture of a hilltop, I remember the 12 h hike; other people see a ruined sunrise pic.
True, but if it is just what you remember about taking the picture that makes it a good picture, it isn't a good picture.
To the original question: Good and popular do not always go hand in hand. Could they even be mutually exclusive?
Cheers,
Gary
As Gary said, popularity and quality are not the same thing.
I think what has been discussed is the emotional attachment we have to the image because as the photographer we remember the why/what/when/how etc surrounding it. If we could capture some of that in the actual shot (to tell the story) then I think we'd have a truly great image.
To counter balance your opinions about the public, let me recall the great David Vestal, who stated we the photographers are very bad editors of our images. Why?
Cheers,
Ruben
Sometimes it is in the situation that we become emotionally attached to specific images. Winogrand's answer to overcoming this was to set aside undeveloped rolls of film for months at a time, or longer, forgetting what was there. This way, he "divorced" himself from emotional attachment to specific images. His editing then became more intellectual rather than emotional.
SolaresLarrave
11-12-2007, 10:11
I have shown my wife prints I don't like, and she finds some kind of redeeming grace in them. By the same token, I've shown her the ones I like and they leave her cold. It's basically a matter of first impression. For the photographer, the image has a story and that gives it a different meaning. For a viewer, the image alone has to make its case.
I actually like when that happens. It helps me learn what others see in my shots and everybody else's.
First, it seems to me according to the answers that most if not all here agree about the phenomena.
As for the known assertion that images are like wine, sometimes yes, sometimes not. Don't you have had a great image that you recognized it as such immediately, and continue to have the same opinion one or two decades later ?
But as far as me personally I strongly disagree with all the references to the circumstances when making the pictures influencing me. When I get the results I make my selection based on what I see as the end result. At this point I clearly differentiate between what I intended and what I have gotten, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad. Here you should take into account that mostly I use to photograph people on the move.
Well, perhaps it is just that each of us has her/his own taste, and when it comes to one's work our taste may become specially sensible rather than when we have to "judge" others work.
Or it may be too, that by the very nature of our craft we are controversial characters.
For me, the former question is still open.
Cheers,
Ruben
nikon_sam
11-12-2007, 10:45
Good question Ruben and a very timely one too...at least for me...
I just got back 41 rolls of 36 ex. film (Dev. to CD) that now needs to be edited down for others to use (High School Yearbook)
I have to look at them equally and select the ones that everyone may like (Not just the shots that stroke my ego)
It's hard not to just show your very best but to think of others and show what would appear to you to be boring shots...
To most of the kids as long as they are in the shot it's their favorite...
The more technically correct with perfect placement, balance and front page color might get left behind...go figure...
Now, leaving "My Ego" behind I must edit these pictures...
ruben, it was nice humour :) as you said, some people fail to understand most your personal works due no relations to your memory of the past.
For centuries artists and physiologists have worked to explain people’s pictorial preferences, and called their observations “composition”
Do you believe there is such a thing Ruben?
Sorry Stewart, but the significance of your last post is unclear to me.
Nevertheless, I have to retreat from my assertion that the circumstances are not a factor in my preferences about my images. It happens that when an image is easy-for-me to obtain, I tend to disdain it somewhat. In my case it doesn't happen both directions, but in the mentioned one.
Yet this easy-for-me, or for you, encompasses a mixture of talent, experience and luck.
Hmmm, the mistery is starting to unveil...
Cheers,
Ruben
Joe Brugger
11-12-2007, 14:14
I have to retreat from my assertion that the circumstances are not a factor in my preferences about my images. It happens that when an image is easy-for-me to obtain, I tend to disdain it somewhat. Ruben
It's hard to separate ourselves from the difficulty of making a photograph, but the general public will respond to content before effort. Where photographers here might understand the complexity or the technical wonder of a particular shot, the g.p. is simply going to respond to the finished print.
Some photographers are wonderful editors; some are not. I don't think you can make a blanket statement there.
It's always surprising what people respond to -- there's certainly a lot more interest in other people, or pets, or kids than there is in the interminable tree/rock/fern B&W masterworks.
Maybe the question is: Who are you shooting for?
Sorry Stewart, but the significance of your last post is unclear to me.
Nevertheless, I have to retreat from my assertion that the circumstances are not a factor in my preferences about my images. It happens that when an image is easy-for-me to obtain, I tend to disdain it somewhat. In my case it doesn't happen both directions, but in the mentioned one.
Yet this easy-for-me, or for you, encompasses a mixture of talent, experience and luck.
Hmmm, the mistery is starting to unveil...
Cheers,
Ruben
I think my contention is that a well composed photo will be liked by the majority of people they will all tend to like it, anyone with an emotional attachment will view it differently, and you clearly are emotionally attached to your photography.
Consider a photo of one of your children; would I see it as you do? Your knowledge of how and where it was made must alter your appreciation of it
regards
Dektol Dan
11-12-2007, 15:25
I've always strived for a certain look in my photos, which is a rather limited compositional set of themes. I am competing with my self to match the moment to those themes and if those who look at my work don't make the effort to play my game they can go hang.
The answer is simple, we all like different things, thankfully :)
It happens, Ruben.
The more interesting question is why it's frustrating (to me at least).
Roland.
maybe it's frustrating because we always want our choices validated, and not contradicted, but to me that just makes it all the more interesting.
oftheherd
11-12-2007, 16:28
Probably a little of everything that has been said above. But of interest to me is that I once put together a small "portfolio" and took pleasure in showing it around. There were two photos of closeups of bees and dandelions. Everyone always commented on those photos and mentioned how they liked them. They were slightly fuzzy from focus or camera movement, but everybody liked them. Another was of a sunrise that really only had color, not much comosition. There were two contest winners there that nobody took any real notice of.
That was probably the most pleasure I got out of showing it, to see if anyone would show any interest in the contest winners. Never happened. Go figure. I never could.
Bobfrance
11-13-2007, 01:48
Interesting observation oftheherd.
Without wishing to sound sound snobbish, I personally think the amount you have educated your palette affects your taste.
As an example take pop music and jazz, both are valid forms of music. However, pop is instantly accessible (and liked more by the young I'd say). Where as Jazz requires some knowledge of the music to appreciate it. You could say it's the same with wine.
We look at photographs regularly and repond to subleties within the image both technical and compositional. People who aren't into photography look for bright colours and accepted themes of beauty.
I'm not really into wine or Jazz BTW so I may be talking rubbish. ;)
The answer is simple, we all like different things, thankfully :)
All the theories I’ve ever read conclude the opposite to that, people actually like the same things
How many people (adults that is) don’t like patterns?
http://bp3.blogger.com/_U-t2tGr6I1A/RwkOmQKn1QI/AAAAAAAAAOk/dhfaSP2AHHY/s400/Image005-800.jpg
Or things in groups?
http://bp3.blogger.com/_U-t2tGr6I1A/Rsbj3hzpByI/AAAAAAAAAME/p9csBxXOICU/s400/test009.jpg
It happens, Ruben.
The more interesting question is why it's frustrating (to me at least).
Roland.
That would be god’s way of saying “do better next time” I suspect it’s an evolutionary thing
:angel: :D :angel:
regards
Interesting observation oftheherd.
Without wishing to sound sound snobbish, I personally think the amount you have educated your palette affects your taste.
As an example take pop music and jazz, both are valid forms of music. However, pop is instantly accessible (and liked more by the young I'd say). Where as Jazz requires some knowledge of the music to appreciate it. You could say it's the same with wine.
We look at photographs regularly and repond to subleties within the image both technical and compositional. People who aren't into photography look for bright colours and accepted themes of beauty.
I'm not really into wine or Jazz BTW so I may be talking rubbish. ;)
That what I was failing to get across to Ruben earlier, that knowledge must change opinion.
Remember that HBC photo put up for criticism anonymously; would they have said what they did had they known the truth, and more important still which opinion was closest to the truth?
I can contribute with two other inter-related aspects.
Images, our images, are our own creations. Can we be objective towards our own creations? Can we be objective towards our own children, towards our own behaviour ?
Now, most of us, although needing the support of others, create for ourselves.
Therefore we do not develope a sense of popularity, or what the public likes or dislikes.
Be it stated that by my opinion, "the public" sometimes has good taste, sometimes not. Popularity is a statistic fact. Good taste - a highly subjective issue.
Popularity is popularity, good taste is good taste. Sometimes the go along each other, sometimes against. My mistake is in taking for granted they are the same.
Cheers,
Ruben
Hi Ruben, if you work in a creative occupation, then it is crucial to develop “a sense of popularity, or what the public likes or dislikes.” How else do you work out what to make? And if it will sell?
Good taste may be subjective, would you also say visual perception was, I don’t think so, yellow and blue remain complimentary colours whoever is looking at them.
regards
Hi Stewart,
Kindly take note of your word "perception". Perception is to my opinion highly personal. But it can find popularity and become a success.
Now all these leads to the next conflict: How to obtain a measure of support we all need (popularity), without relinquishing our own taste.
But it seems to me I will take a rest and leave it for another thread. Meanwhile some shooting.
Cheers,
Ruben
alternatve
11-13-2007, 03:44
I guess the viewer has a individual opinion about a picture of yours, and it might not correndspond to what you feel. The viewer also might not be able to put himself in your shoes to see the image from your standpoint.
Samuel
Hi Stewart,
Kindly take note of your word "perception". Perception is to my opinion highly personal. But it can find popularity and become a success.
Now all these leads to the next conflict: How to obtain a measure of support we all need (popularity), without relinquishing our own taste.
But it seems to me I will take a rest and leave it for another thread. Meanwhile some shooting.
Cheers,
Ruben
Then, sadly, our opinions differ, I believe the vast majority see hear and touch the world around them in the same way and therefore appreciate it in generally similar ways
Do you get good light in the winter over there?
I guess the viewer has a individual opinion about a picture of yours, and it might not correndspond to what you feel. The viewer also might not be able to put himself in your shoes to see the image from your standpoint.
Samuel
I agree completely it’s impossible for me to separate my ego from my opinion.
However I can attempt predict what you will like, and I’m predicting you will like the two shots I posted above
regards
PS feel free to comment on the photos I don’t get offended
I think the answer also lies in what type of pictures you primarily take, and of course the type of people you show your photographs to. But more importantly perhaps, does it matter ? Ruben, how does it make you feel when people respond better to the pictures you don't like the most. Does it make you feel good that you have taken a picture that someone responds positively to, or does it make you question your personal choices?
To quote Jeff Koons the conceptual artist. "The art is in the viewer"
Ruben, I've noticed this on my flickr gallery. I agree that I am maybe a bad editor of my own work, and that the feelings encountered while making the photo influence my own preferences. But here are some samples from my last four flickr uploads. They're all made with an SLR, so pardon that, but my favourite is NOT the one that has gotten the most comments. I'd appreciate any thoughts others might have about which they like better. I won't tell which is my favourite yet. :D
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97373293@N00/2026370207/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97373293@N00/2026368911/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97373293@N00/2026367729/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97373293@N00/2027169072/in/photostream/
And yes, I have one or two images (not those posted here!) that, from the very capture to the final print, I knew were great to me ... and continue to be so 30+ years later.
Earl
Joe Brugger
11-15-2007, 16:20
My money is on the dulcimer shot. Have you considered a more speed-enhancing developer, like Diafine? It looks like you're shooting in no light at all and an extra stop would be a big help.
Thanks... BTW, I don't want to hijack this thread, Ruben!
Diafine: Sorry, I'm not fond of it. Yes, I'm shooting in virtually no light. My effort is all merciful's fault!
Ruben, I've noticed this on my flickr gallery. I agree that I am maybe a bad editor of my own work, and that the feelings encountered while making the photo influence my own preferences. But here are some samples from my last four flickr uploads. They're all made with an SLR, so pardon that, but my favourite is NOT the one that has gotten the most comments. I'd appreciate any thoughts others might have about which they like better. I won't tell which is my favourite yet. :D
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97373293@N00/2026370207/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97373293@N00/2026368911/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97373293@N00/2026367729/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97373293@N00/2027169072/in/photostream/
And yes, I have one or two images (not those posted here!) that, from the very capture to the final print, I knew were great to me ... and continue to be so 30+ years later.
Earl
Earl
I wound imagine when you look at them you “hear” the echoes of the music, I don’t, so I have a different experience, you are drawing on your knowledge to form a cognitive reality that is different, better informed than mine.
Try watching TV with the sound off it changes the pictures completely far more than you would expect far more than just a lack of sound; I like the composition of the one with the soft focus fiddle player central in the frame.
regards
Thanks to all for your comments. The one below is my favourite. Until a few hours ago, no one had commented on it. Honus (Robert) did leave a comment, which pleases me. I appreciate all comments, of course.
Why do I like this particular shot? Well, I think first of all the atmosphere is evocative, plus the interaction between our little prodigy and the whistle player is very sweet. But having seen the fiddle prodigy in action, observing her over several sessions, I admit to having a deeper appreciation of her nature, her soul. So this slice, this capture, is more meaningful to me, apparently, than is the photo to others. For those who haven't followed the "Johnny's" photos, the little girl is an absolute sensational prodigy. She can play with the nearly anyone, and is a sweet child to boot.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2416/2026368911_76c9f73834_o.jpg
Does it happen to you that your most popular pics are NOT those you like most ?
It happens to me since I started to photograph. Why is that ?
Cheers,
RubenAn interesting observation Ruben and I like the discussion in the thread. :) As someone points out above, we are all different and I do think that's a large piece of it. I looked in my (small) gallery here and my own favorite is the only one in there with no comments! I don't mind that at all and I really don't feel that I should try to make more images like those that are favorably commented on, here or elsewhere. To be honest, I'm really not that interested in whether people like my pictures or not, but I am sometimes surprised if people like something I don't or vice versa. Individual differences...
Trius: nice shot & story!
Hi Trius,
Formerly I just "glanced" around the Flickr pics you indicated. What a difference size can make even within a computer screen ! ! !
I happened not to "see" your pics at Flick original size !
Cheers,
Ruben
Hmmm... a good argument against the random gallery :D
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