Smallest 6x6 Folder [Archive] - Rangefinderforum.com

kuzano

11-11-2007, 21:09

Voigtlander Perkeo ... best configuration if you can find it... Perkeo I with a Color Scopar and Synchro Compur shutter. (that was a "not often found" upgrade lens for the 1 model. Perkeo II normally had the Color Skopar/Synchro Compur to 1/500th. Camera closed 5" x 3.25" x 1.75". Very solid with rigid front standards, durable bellows, front cell focusing. (not rangefinder)
Balda Baldix with uncoupled rangefinder 6X6 with Enna Werk Munchen Ennagon, sharp and contrasty, front standard like a rock. Prontor SVS shutter to 1/300th. V X M synch, Film stop and double prevention. Very nice (surprising) results. 5.2" x 3.75" x 1.75"

The Perkeo I is ruby window all the way. The Perkeo II is ruby window to frame 1 and auto film count rest of the way (when it's working-very undependable mechanism). The Balda Baldix (and a Hapo Balda-Identical camera made for Hapo department stores in Europe) is ruby window to frame 1 and auto stop rest of the roll. The Balda mechanism is much more durable than the Perkeo II's and the Mamiya Automats I have owned.

My choices first would be the Perkeo 1/Color Skopar (not the Vaskar lens), and either of the Balda (Baldix or Hapo) variants the the ennagon lens.

jan normandale

11-11-2007, 21:24

The Perkeo is a small package I'll often toss one into a bag or jacket "just in case" I haven't had any issues with the film advance yet ... now I'm nervous !

David Goldfarb

11-12-2007, 09:33

Also a fan of the Perkeo II/Color-Skopar as a go-everywhere camera. I usually keep mine in my briefcase with a few spare rolls of Tri-X and use it with a shoe-mount rangefinder.

kuzano

11-12-2007, 10:46

Pardon me for that comment on the Perkeo II.... Not wanting to make anyone nervous. The mechanism in the Perkeo II is reliable if used properly. Meaning you know the sequence of steps for that little lever on the back and the proper routine for startup and advance.
2) that you treat the camera with care, and that it never ever takes a hit on the wind-on knob
3) that if you get stuck, that you are willing to sacrifice a roll of film in the camera rather than forcing the advance.
4) That you get a camera that has a fully functional, working film advance mechanism and proper instructions on the procedure for using it.

I presume those who own and make comments on Perkeo II's, by this time, know how to use the advance mechanism. The reason for never dropping them on the wind-on is that there are some reasonably complex timing mechanisms attached to the wind-on shaft just below the cover.

Good to go.

David Goldfarb

11-12-2007, 11:40

Another feature of the Perkeo II is that it can reliably get 13 frames per roll, which is handy if you shoot slide film. For neg film it means having to print an extra contact sheet, so I don't do it with neg films. Here are a couple of sample shots--

http://www.echonyc.com/~goldfarb/temp/N,NewJacket,CP,Feb2004.jpg

http://www.echonyc.com/~goldfarb/who/21a.jpg

And I've posted one in color here--

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=51181&d=1193614634

jan normandale

11-12-2007, 14:21

David , I'm wondering, is that interior shot taken with Provia?

Solinar

11-12-2007, 16:11

I kind of like David's first image. Check out the out of focus areas in the background. Notice how the benches and pathway arch towards the center. An excellent composition, if I may say so.

BTW, the smallest 6x6 that I've used is the Perkeo II.

David Goldfarb

11-12-2007, 19:19

Thanks, Andrew.

Jan, the shot of Union Station in Washington, D.C. was taken, I'm fairly sure, with Fuji RMS, probably at EI 100 or 200. RMS was designed for pushing up to EI 1000, but the base speed was 100. The color started to get a little odd around 800, so I never pushed it past 400. It was discontinued when Provia 400F was introduced. The exposure must have been fairly slow, and I don't recall having a tripod (I think I was in town for a professional conference), so I probably braced the camera against a pillar or a wastebasket or something. This is a nice feature of the 6x6 format--being able to brace the camera against a vertical or horizontal surface.

bensyverson

11-13-2007, 15:53

I'm liking the Perkeo I. I have the Vaskar lens, which is supposed to be so terrible, but I'm finding it quite good. Maybe the anti-Vaskar gossip is internet legend?

I mean, it's obviously not a Mamiya 6... but then again, it's way smaller than the Mamiya. I have another folder which is slimmer than the Perkeo, but it's other dimensions are larger. I find myself using the Olympus XA less and less, as the Bessa is not much bigger...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2321/1698593062_a5a90e527a.jpg
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/bensyverson/1698593062/)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2415/1698547026_eeee63f804.jpg
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/bensyverson/1698547026/)

The rest of my Perkeo shots are here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bensyverson/tags/perkeo)... I'll have more up later this week...

kuzano

11-13-2007, 17:40

Those are nice shots. I have a slightly less found Perkeo I with the Color Skopar, but I have to say that the Vaskar has always been very acceptable, just as your finding. In my experience, lenses like the Vaskars on the Voigtlanders, and Novars on some of the Zeiss cameras have been very good in rendering sharp images. It's probably safe to assume the names like Voigtlander and Zeiss never used bad lenses. I've shot 105mm Vaskars on the Bessa I, The helomar on the Bessa RF 6X9, and the 75mm Vaskar on the Perkeo. The Bessa I and the Bessa RF both came with masks to shoot both 6X9 and 6X4.5. I was fortunate enough to find both of those camera's complete with the internal mask. So, between a Perkeo, and either a Bessa I or RF, most of the 6CM formats are covered. It's interesting that the Bessa II never had the intermediate mask.

Anyway, I like your pics and they're great examples of the capability of the less expensive lens. I never had a gripe on the lenses, but I disliked the temperament of the Prontor shutters and the slower speeds.

bensyverson

11-14-2007, 09:56

Thanks Kuzano!

The slower speeds are a bummer -- it would be nice to have a faster option than 1/200... but it hasn't been an issue yet. My biggest gripe is that the slowest speed is 1/25 -- I would love to have 1/15 and 1/8 on there...

chippy

01-31-2008, 20:14

Kuzano..its my understanding that they did make a Bessa II with duel format and mask (not that i have seen one!). the Bessa II model 1 is without assesory shoe, model 2 has the shoe and model 3 has the mask.

one of these days i will get around to looking for myself at any performance differance in some of the lenes, it will be interesting i think. meaning to test them against each other with the same film, aperatures, conditions ect, I have a Bessa 1 with vaskar, Bessa II w/scopar and Bessa II w/helliar for instance and a heap of other cameras ..hehe just not enough film lol...and time!

i have used a perkeo II (c/scopar 1-500) for yonks, smallest 6x6 i know and is just so easy to keep tucked away somewhere although the pekeo IIIe is only a fraction taller and has the rangefinder i still havnt gotten around to using it..its still in my workbench awaiting a CLA. its a little difficult to get enthusiastic to use it when the lens/shutter spec is less than the P II ;its in near mint otherwise, which is another reason i use my perkeo II; dont have to worry about a scratch, not that i would treat the little pigmy bad!

DaCh

02-01-2008, 13:49

Balda Baldix is the smallest I have and it is a rather nice camera to use.
A tiny put it in your pocket camera is the Selfix 16-20
OK it's 6x4.5 and there is no range finder but it is a great little camera.
For some strange reason they made it for left handed use, why did they feel the need?

DaCh

02-01-2008, 13:55

Balda Baldix is the smallest I have, and it is a rather nice camera to use.
A realy small, keep it in your pocket camera is the Selfix 16-20
OK so it is 6x4.5 and there is no rangefinder but it is a great little camera.
For some reason they made it for left handed use, why did they feel the need?

VictorM.

02-01-2008, 14:22

Balda Baldix. About the size of a Retina IIc. Three element coated 75mm f/2.9 Baltar. Pretty sharp properly set-up and stopped down a bit.

dazedgonebye

02-01-2008, 14:35

I also have the Baldix...same as your Hapo I think.

Small and light, but I wish I had the Baldax version, with coupled rangefinder and a 4 element lens.

kuzano

02-01-2008, 20:39

I also have the Baldix...same as your Hapo I think.

Small and light, but I wish I had the Baldax version, with coupled rangefinder and a 4 element lens.

and build by Balda For Hapo department stores in Europe. Have had both... 2 baldix and 1 hapo. All had Enna Werke lens w/2.8 and front cell focus, and rangefinder plus film count and stop. I took some of the sharpest 6X6 B/W images I have ever seen, with the Hapo. The Baldix and Hapo had about the same length dimension as a Perkeo, but about a half inch taller and a half inch thicker.

whitecat

02-01-2008, 22:14

I agree. I have them both and it's a real decision when I go to shoot on which to take. I have a Perkeo IIIE with builtin rangefinder and am told by others it is a rare camera.

GeneW

02-02-2008, 05:38

How do these folders you mention compare in size to an Ikonta? I have a non-RF Ikonta that seems fairly compact, but have no basis of comparison.

Gene

VictorM.

02-02-2008, 07:22

Width: 5 1/16" 129mm

Height: 3 9/16" 90mm

Thickness: 1 3/4" 44mm

Very light camera for it's size. It feels slightly lighter than a Retina IIc. A bonus with the f/2.9 Baltar on mine is that it takes 40.5mm screw-in filters and hoods. Also, a softie screws into the shutter release, making release smoother.

dazedgonebye

02-09-2008, 18:09

I also have the Baldix...same as your Hapo I think.

Small and light, but I wish I had the Baldax version, with coupled rangefinder and a 4 element lens.

Well, well. Looks like wishes do come true!
I now have a Super Baldax with Ennit f2.8 on the way.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300197712990&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=020

jan normandale

02-09-2008, 18:19

I agree. I have them both and it's a real decision when I go to shoot on which to take. I have a Perkeo IIIE with builtin rangefinder and am told by others it is a rare camera.

I've only seen a photo of the Perkeo III, and I've also heard it's a hard one to come by. I'd be interested to see some shots with it and also a couple of the Perkeo III

Abbazz

02-10-2008, 00:50

Well, well. Looks like wishes do come true!
I now have a Super Baldax with Ennit f2.8 on the way.

Wow! Nice catch, Steve. Don't forget to post some samples.

Cheers!

Abbazz

D.O'K.

02-10-2008, 03:14

My ICA Icarette (c.1924) is the smallest I have seen at about 14.5cm long, 8cm high and 3.5cm deep. It has a Tessar f4.5 75mm lens and very elegant engineering. Although a 620, it will take 120 film if you cut off the edges of the spool flanges. An interesting quirk is that the centre of the back can be removed to enable single shot 6 x 7 cm film holders to be fitted.

I believe that when ICA became part of Zeiss Ikon (c.1925?) they continued to make the camera but under a different name--

Regards,
D.O'K.

68degrees

05-09-2013, 18:52

I'm liking the Perkeo.... I find myself using the Olympus XA less and less, as the Bessa is not much bigger...

what Bessa is not much bigger than the olympus XA?

GaryLH

05-09-2013, 19:01

There is a Bessa 6x6. But this is bigger than the Perkeo. Off the top the name escapes me and I cannot remember how much bigger.

Gary

kuzano

05-09-2013, 19:08

I've only seen a photo of the Perkeo III, and I've also heard it's a hard one to come by. I'd be interested to see some shots with it and also a couple of the Perkeo III

I've always been a bit confused by the naming convention on the Perkeo III or the Perkeo E....

I've seen pictures of both, but never at the same time alongside each other. I'm inclined by what I've seen to think that they are the same camera....

Either way, I've seen them incredibly high priced. Additionally I've been confused by whether there was a prototype Perkeo Rangefinder that was made before the Perkeo II, and if that's the case that may explain two variants of the rangefinder model. And if I recall correctly they were both coupled rangefinders. There are a few rangefinders that had a rangefinder for distance, but you transferred the distance to "front cell focus manually".

One example of that would be the balda Baldax which has an UNcoupled rangefinder and then the Super Baldax which uses a coupled rangefinder. I have owned two of the Baldax and one Super Baldax... Excellent camera's with great lenses for black/white shooting.

The interesting thing about these camera's is that regardless of year mfr, I have had two Perkeo I's that had the bright front standards and the Color Skopar 80 mm that came on the Perkeo II. In fact, I am mailing one out tomorrow that I sold on eBay...Perkeo I, bright front standard, Color Skopar in Synchro Compur 1/500th shutter.

Would like to find the rangefinder Perkeo, whether it's an E or a III. Look like the same camera to me.

Tell me otherwise if you know.

GaryLH

05-09-2013, 19:20

They are uncoupled. I have one.

Gary

GaryLH

05-09-2013, 19:24

The Bessa in question was bessa66. Looks like foruner to the perkeo according to this blog.

http://www.cosmonet.org/camera/perkeo_e.html

Gary

bensyverson

05-09-2013, 19:33

what Bessa is not much bigger than the olympus XA?
Wow, old thread! :) The Perkeo I that I have is not much bigger than an XA. In the strictest sense, it's larger, but it's one of the smallest (if not the smallest) 6x6 folders, and I don't notice any difference once it's in my bag or coat pocket. It's far smaller than an Iskra, though the Iskra has a fantastic lens and coupled RF...

http://bensyverson.com/images/2013/5/xa-perkeo.jpg

68degrees

05-09-2013, 19:39

Nice move Ben! Thanks.

Wow, old thread! :) The Perkeo I that I have is not much bigger than an XA. In the strictest sense, it's larger, but it's one of the smallest (if not the smallest) 6x6 folders, and I don't notice any difference once it's in my bag or coat pocket. It's far smaller than an Iskra, though the Iskra has a fantastic lens and coupled RF...

http://bensyverson.com/images/2013/5/xa-perkeo.jpg

68degrees

05-09-2013, 19:40

I wish there was a place to put a strap besides the case with the rotted leather strap mounts

68degrees

05-09-2013, 19:47

Heres is the XA next to the Isolette II

GaryLH

05-09-2013, 19:50

Try the back jean pocket test on the Agfa. Will it fit or is it a tight fight?

Gary

Ps. U can fit a wrist strap around where the leather side strap s located in most of these folders that have that setup, if can do that then something longer can be done a well. Normally I don't use a case or a strap.. Between shots just put it in my back pocket.

68degrees

05-09-2013, 20:00

bensyverson

05-09-2013, 20:02

Its tight but it fits. Does the Perkeo fit loose?
The Perkeo fits, even with slim fit jeans... Pretty easy to take in and out too. But personally I don't carry cameras back there, partially because of pickpockets but mostly because I know I'd sit on a camera at some point. :)

GaryLH

05-09-2013, 20:19

Its tight but it fits. Does the Perkeo fit loose?

So it is about the same size as my special then. The perkeo is slightly smaller. All four of these will fit in my back jean pocket.
- Voitlander perkeo
- Ansco/Agfa special
- Franka Solida II
- Zeiss super ikonta iv (IIi as well, don't have it handy)

Plus even the Bessa II, I can put in my back pocket. The new 6x7 Bessa iii / Consiba gf670, NO way it will fit normal jean back pockets. Really shows how well engineered these old folders are.

Gary

GaryLH

05-09-2013, 20:22

Here is shot of the four 6x6 folders I mentioned. Agfa top left, zeiss top right, perkeo bottom left and Solida bottom right.

Gary

GaryLH

05-09-2013, 20:36

If u want something closer to Olympus xa size.. U will need to look into 6x4.5 folders like the Zeiss super ikonta A.

Gary

oftheherd

05-15-2013, 04:18

Wow, old thread! :) The Perkeo I that I have is not much bigger than an XA. In the strictest sense, it's larger, but it's one of the smallest (if not the smallest) 6x6 folders, and I don't notice any difference once it's in my bag or coat pocket. It's far smaller than an Iskra, though the Iskra has a fantastic lens and coupled RF...

http://bensyverson.com/images/2013/5/xa-perkeo.jpg

That's a bit of a surprise. Thanks for showing that.

Most of my 6x6 folders are a little larger I think. If I remember tonight, I will try a comparison with some I have.

Kenj8246

05-15-2013, 08:33

Agfa Isolette III I received yesterday is pretty small, fitting nicely in a back jeans pocket. This one was refurbed by certo6 and is done in a very nice green. Takes nice pics, too.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7282/8739336587_bb97accc40_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bykenny/8739336587/)
Veryl Goodnight sculpture, Agfa Isolette III, Acros 100 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bykenny/8739336587/) by kenj8246 (http://www.flickr.com/people/bykenny/), on Flickr
Kenny