View Full Version : Do we want Random Gallery Picks back?
There's been a lot of discussion about bringing back Random Gallery Picks, so I thought it might be a nice idea to see how many of us are actually interested in the feature.
If I understand the problem with Random Gallery Picks was that loading thumbnails incurs load on the server upon every front page view, much like the present loading of thumbnails for classifieds items. Maybe one could find some technical solution to lessen server load (such as only displaying them for logged-in users), but in all probability (without knowing the details) bringing back Random Gallery Picks would mean incurring some kind of compromise, which is why I've listed some suggestions here. (Because some of the suggestions are non-exclusive, one can vote on more than one, even though for some of the options it doesn't make sense.) This is a bit hypothetical, but I think a general sort of image nevertheless could emerge.
Philipp
dave lackey
11-08-2007, 03:26
I thought something was missing!
The random photos allow me to enjoy other work and style because I will not normally spend any time whatsoever looking at individual member's collections. Just too much trouble and I may miss out on different shooting styles.
The random images mean a lot during my work day when I have little time to surf the site.
There is a whole thread with more than 1200 views about this issue and the surrounding ones.
It is the "kettle" thread:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49431
Since we are talking about internal affairs of RFF, making a public poll doesn't sound to me appropriate.
Let's us all return to outsopoken friendship and influence by argumentation, rather than by public demos.
At the "kettle" thread I made my opinion more than crystal clear, several times, but if you force me to public confrontations, I will have to keep quiet and stop any further intervention. I prefer a less perfect RFF rather than one where hands are twisted by force.
Philipp, my good friend, I beg you to close this thread and pour your arguments to the place Stephen asked us our opinions.
Cheers,
Ruben
Al Patterson
11-08-2007, 04:48
I voted no, as while I did enjoy them when they were displayed I don't think that major software changes that would enable their return are in the cards.
If the random gallery makes this website stop working proper then why keep bringing it up? I know where the gallery page is and I go there when I want to look. Personally I much prefer the classifieds because they are time sensitive and a unique and enjoyable aspect of this website. Things are just fine here. Our galleries are not as community oriented as flickr, that's not a bad thing...there are many great discussions here that never happen on flickr. Use sites for their strengths rather than trying to make a one size fit all. Sheesh, I'm opinionated in the morning...
pesphoto
11-08-2007, 05:39
im cool with the way things are now. I know where to find pics on this site when i want a fix.
Ruben,
For once I don't understand you point. Ther's nothing wrong to discuss this issue here. The "kettle" is about a lot of issues ...besides I don't like boiling discussion ... no just kidding.
Now, we have pros and cons arguments, it seems to me quite appropriate that we vote. We can discuss this matter on and on, at the end we have to know who support the random gallery and who does not. If I read you correctly, you support this idea. One more vote for the random gallery then.
Philipp, you took a good initiative with this poll.
Best,
Marc
I don't understand the point of voting if the random gallery BREAKS the site? I remember when they tried to bring it back because everyone was asking...the site went down and was intollerably slower to load.
One thing about this place has changed. There are a lot more people coming to the homepage than there used to be. I just think that people come here to talk. The gallery is a nice feature, but it's the discussions that are our raison d'etre.
What's the point of asking people to vote if the voters are not properly informed of the consequences of having that random gallery? Sorry, I don't mean to flame about this issue. I remember when the gallery was brought back by popular outcry only to ruin the site for a number of days---now that bothered me. I've said my point.
The problem is that it generates a random gallery for every single visit to the home page. This can easily be cured by having the software generate 1 gallery per 24 hours (or whatever interval).
The problem is that it generates a random gallery for every single visit to the home page. This can easily be cured by having the software generate 1 gallery per 24 hours (or whatever interval).
This would work fine for me, too.
/Jobo
I don't understand the point of voting if the random gallery BREAKS the site? What's the point of asking people to vote if the voters are not properly informed of the consequences of having that random gallery?
I hear you Sirius, and you opinion is sound. What do you think of Remi's interesting suggestion about the technical difficulty.
The problem is that it generates a random gallery for every
single visit to the home page. This can easily be cured by having the software generate 1 gallery per 24 hours (or whatever interval).
The question would be then: if it was possible to get the random gallery back, would you like to get it back?
Now if you want to vote for/against another suggestion, please have a look here: What about displaying the picture of the winner on the front page? (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=672907#post672907)[/B]
Best,
Marc
Ruben,
For once I don't understand you point. Ther's nothing wrong to discuss this issue here. The "kettle" is about a lot of issues ...besides I don't like boiling discussion ... no just kidding.
............Best,
Marc
Then I will explain myself better.
a) Stephen takes the healthy initiative to open a discussion about improving the imagery side of RFF. In his opening words at the front page he makes clear the decision will be taken by him and a very small group formed by the moderators and Memphis. Hereby Stephen words:
We are looking at ways to give more image emphasis at RFF. Ideas are up are for discussion. Nothing is set in stone. The final decisions on what changes implement will be made by myself, the moderators, and Memphis (leader of the imagery promo team). Changes have to be doable within our software. So don't expect a new site. We are looking to improve this site, not invent the wheel again. Once we try something new, if it does not work, we will try something else. In the end though, RFF will become a more image focused forum. Click the heading link above to join the discussion.
Stephen
b) a great discussion opens, with more than 1200 views, in which the issue of the Random Gallery comes forwards, perhaps as the main axis there.
c) then my friend Philipp unilateraly decides not only to open A PARALEL THREAD BUT to make a public POLL about the Random Gallery.
At this point we should better analyze the character of this poll. There are polls and polls. Some polls deal with who smokes and what is the color of your underpaints. Fine.
But when you take the initiative to make A POLL CONCERNING INTERNAL ISSUES OF RFF you are going to split the neighbourhood between a majority and a minority. YOU ARE TELLING THE MINORITY: YOU ARE A MINORITY. And by this way you are disrupting any possibility of consensus or compromise.
In our present case it is even worst, since you are narrowing the field of manoeuvre of Stephen, the owner of the site. Instead of appealing to his reasoning you are FORCING HIM TO IMPOSE, a very unpleasant situation. You are forcing him to impose since you are creating an obstacle, a wall, he will either have to demolish or demolish.
d) Therefore I call all RFF to boycott this poll, and continue the discussion at its original thread:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49431
Cheers,
Ruben
mike goldberg
11-08-2007, 07:18
Here's my 2 cents worth:
I miss the two Random Gallery Picks photos.
I am NOT clear as to whether Stephen and the Mods WANT more sponsoring members [with or without 3 stars]...
And, if members are sponsoring at, let's say $25- per year...
- What do the members gain?
- How is that income good for the site?
A clear example of something that has worked well, is the $2- Classified Ads fee, administered by Jorge.
Finally, I sense that some "feathers have been ruffled," above. There is no reason to get embroiled in conflict, over Random Gallery Picks, or not.
Cheers, Mike ;-)
photogdave
11-08-2007, 07:27
I brought this up a few months back and many people agreed with me that the Random Gallery should come back. So it did come back briefly but everyone thought it bogged down the site too much and it was removed again. End of. I did appreciate that they gave it a go!
OurManInTangier
11-08-2007, 08:15
I haven't voted simply because my view isn't really expressed with the options.
I very much enjoyed the Random Images simply because they were random and would often allow me to view images that have been in the gallery for a long time that I would never have seen otherwise.
If this function causes the site to bog down or crash then logic decrees that we lose that function from the site. Its a shame but a simple fact. However, I would very very much like to see this site or sections thereof become more image orientated. We all enjoy discussing photography, be it the gear, the techniques or even the experiences but the end result is surely the images. I'm not suggesting this site becomes wholly image orientated but simply to expand this area more.
One of the things I like most about RFF's Image Gallery over Flickr ( for example ) is that it is a slightly smaller community with a central gallery in which to post. We're not splintered all over the site with different groups and we therefore get to view a huge range of differing forms of photography in the one place.
As such I thank Stephen, the moderaters and Memphis for trying to improve the site in this regard. I look forward to seeing what they come up with and hope it will work and prove popular, if not then they/we go back to the drawing board and try something else. If Random Gallery Images were able to work in some way I'd be very happy but I'm also interested and intrigued by any alternative and new developments they may come up with.
For me, simply knowing that RFF is trying to accomodate the needs and desires or all its users rather than simply one section is enough to make me happy.
Live long and prosper brothers etc etc etc
keithwms
11-08-2007, 08:15
Bring back the random gallery.
As I mentioned elsewhere, this isn't an issue of gear or images or even commenting per se, it is an issue of visual freshness. The current fornt page is the antithesis of fresh. It is completely static from a visual standpoint, and mostly static from the standpoint of text.
The random gallery would at least freshen up the visuals.
mike goldberg
11-08-2007, 08:26
A good way to begin the "new" focus on more images in RFF, is to resurrect the Random Picks. C'est tout?
Gabriel M.A.
11-08-2007, 08:55
It's deja vu all over again...again
I actually suggest a "Click here to see Random Picks from the Users Gallery". That way, if you want to see it, you have to click it. If you don't, you don't. That way the "server load" issue won't be an "issue". Unless they keep on having a cowboy approach to site maintenance, of course...
It's deja vu all over again...again
I actually suggest a "Click here to see Random Picks from the Users Gallery". That way, if you want to see it, you have to click it. If you don't, you don't. That way the "server load" issue won't be an "issue". Unless they keep on having a cowboy approach to site maintenance, of course...
I second that suggestion! Thanks Gabriel.
What do you think about it, guys? That could be a solution.
I didn't vote in the poll and haven't read this entire thread carefully, but I think Gabriel's suggestion sounds like a very reasonable compromise. I also miss the Random Gallery Picks, but I also understand the issues w/ the server.
back alley
11-08-2007, 10:08
is there not a certain arrogance in bringing up this subject time & again when the owner of the site has stated in the clearest of terms that it will not happen?
joe
Joe -- I was unaware that he'd said that. I don't think anyone is being arrogant. A stimulating discussion has been generated on whether and how to enhance the visual aspects of RFF, and a return of Random Gallery Picks -- in some fashion (not necessarily as they were originally displayed) -- has become one part of that discussion. Perhaps it would be helpful to get a signal from Stephen about what can, and cannot, be done; if he's already send such a signal, I for one did not see it.
Steve
is there not a certain arrogance in bringing up this subject time & again when the owner of the site has stated in the clearest of terms that it will not happen?
joe
Not trying to be a smart ass,
I never knew he said that.
Could I ask why?
Arrogance? That's a bit too much, Joe.
Kim Coxon
11-08-2007, 11:03
Hi Steve,
Stephen has " given the signal" as you put it in at least 3 threads on the subject including the one where he put forward the whole idea of of how he wanted to generate more interest in pictures rather than gear. A quote from that giving his policy was quoted in big yellow letters in Ruben's post not 3 hours and 10 posts before yours. Since he first gave that signal and created a forum to discuss the whole issue, there have been several threads started outside of that discussion about the same thing with the same arguments and the same answers.
The bottom line is that the site owner is very keen to promote the art rather than the gear. However, he has stated on several ocassions that he is not prepared for a major change to the software with the trouble and expense that that would cause. The random gallery picks cause a major slow down of the site which most find unacceptable. There is a working group discussing the matter in open forum here http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=134 If people want to ignore that and all the discussion that has gone before, that's fine by me but I agree with Joe, I do think it is a little arrogant.
Regards
Kim
Joe -- I was unaware that he'd said that. I don't think anyone is being arrogant. A stimulating discussion has been generated on whether and how to enhance the visual aspects of RFF, and a return of Random Gallery Picks -- in some fashion (not necessarily as they were originally displayed) -- has become one part of that discussion. Perhaps it would be helpful to get a signal from Stephen about what can, and cannot, be done; if he's already send such a signal, I for one did not see it.
Steve
back alley
11-08-2007, 11:09
Arrogance? That's a bit too much, Joe.
marc, then give me another word for it.
and i'm not trying to be a smartass either.
this has come up many times, stephen has addressed it and many members have stated they would prefer a quicker site than one that has a random gallery on the front page. the software does not allow for the gallery and the qick while the classifieds seem to not slow down the site. i'm not a software geek and don't understand why it all works the way it does.
arrogance seems to be the word to me but maybe i should have said uninformed?
joe
OK, I stand corrected. I should have read the posts and threads more carefully. As I previously said, I understand the problems w/ the server and software, and just thought that Gabriel's idea might be worth considering... But! if it would still cause server or software problems, then I w/draw my previous comment.
jan normandale
11-08-2007, 11:48
I remember when RFF would be offline for hours and even a day on one occasion. This hasn’t happened in a long time. I think the loss of access to the site caused enough consternation. If the site can’t handle the load of a random image, I vote “site first, then random image”
Since no upgrades are forthcoming due to financial constraints I’m happy with the RFF as it is currently. I recall the random images and they were an interesting thing to see, however like Sitemistic has noted just go to the membership list and select someone to check out. That’s what I did during the first year I was here. It’s worth it.
Joe, don’t forget you “live here” so you see the flow of discussion daily. Some members don’t immerse themselves in RFF to the extent that they know all the discussions on this topic. Perhaps pointing to the appropriate threads at the outset might save a lot of time all around.
keithwms
11-08-2007, 11:54
If random gallery per se isn't workable due to tech issues, then simply have a few people step up to identify "images of the week." That would be another low-tech way to populate a quasi-random gallery. Then there is zero tax on the server but the visual mission is served.
I'm pretty sure this has been suggested in a few places and it seems a good compromise, if there are people willing to nominate photos. Some nice folks already take the time to list the standout photos of the week; why not put their work to good use.
Or... picture-of-the-week nominations could be done numerically, by votes on posted images. Dry but efficient.
Just brainstorming.... and I'm sure everything I'm suggesting has been suggested before...
Do keep brainstorming and join the discussion in the Imagery Promo Forum...
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=134
photogdave
11-08-2007, 12:40
Joe, don’t forget you “live here” so you see the flow of discussion daily. Some members don’t immerse themselves in RFF to the extent that they know all the discussions on this topic. Perhaps pointing to the appropriate threads at the outset might save a lot of time all around.
This is a good point. "Arrogance" has a negative connotation and I don't think anyone participating in this thread was acting with arrogance, Just unawareness. :)
back alley
11-08-2007, 13:02
we already have a pic of the week thread that claremontphoto does.
yes jan, you are correct. i spend way too much time here and usually have a fair idea of what's happening.
sorry dave, i am short tempered these days, being compared to a nazi and told what a poor moderator i am has that affect.
i need a long nap and some quiet time.
joe
philhirn
11-08-2007, 13:04
just make it a habit to click once per visit on the "gallery" button, whats the big deal? this is not photo.net ... -_- on the other hand it wouldnt hurt to make the gallery page a bit more inviting and more easily browsable (first having to select a timespan before being able to browse the pictures? no thanks)
ClaremontPhoto
11-08-2007, 13:56
we already have a pic of the week thread that claremontphoto does.
Thank you back alley.
We get very little participation in Gallery Picks, and I was just about to give it up.
I've tried posting my own choices one at a time to bump the thread.
I'm also starting to add comments to stimulate talk about photos.
Any other suggestions to myself and the Gallery Picks regulars will be very welcome. And it would be great to see new regulars in there.
Dear Ruben,
Then I will explain myself better.
I guess I should do the same. I hope that you don't mind if I rearrange the order of your text a little bit to make for a coherent response.
[...]The final decisions on what changes implement will be made by myself, the moderators, and Memphis (leader of the imagery promo team). Changes have to be doable within our software. So don't expect a new site. We are looking to improve this site, not invent the wheel again.[...]
I have actually read that, contrary to how it seems to appear.
Maybe it is just me being dense, but I don't read that as "Random Gallery Picks will never be back". I read that as "We will only do what our software will allow us to do". I don't think I have suggested anything different. I am not a vBulletin expert, but vBulletin is a rather flexible system with an extensive support community; I think it would be worth looking for a way to make Random Gallery Picks work with the existing software, and I would have liked the poll to be interpreted in this way, as giving suggestions what one could try. Maybe the old version of vBulletin just had a bug here. We shouldn't rule out Random Gallery Picks completely just because there were problems with the particular configuration and version RFF was running back then.
c) then my friend Philipp unilateraly decides not only to open A PARALEL THREAD BUT to make a public POLL about the Random Gallery.
At this point we should better analyze the character of this poll. There are polls and polls. Some polls deal with who smokes and what is the color of your underpaints. Fine.
But when you take the initiative to make A POLL CONCERNING INTERNAL ISSUES OF RFF you are going to split the neighbourhood between a majority and a minority. YOU ARE TELLING THE MINORITY: YOU ARE A MINORITY. And by this way you are disrupting any possibility of consensus or compromise.
This is certainly not the character I had in mind. Following your tradition of yellow text, all I wanted to achieve here was to collect some ideas how it would be possible to get back one highly desirable feature while keeping server load manageable and while maintaining as much as possible of the site as it is. I am not trying to split anyone, or to disrupt consensus, or to bring up talk about minorities and majorities, or to force anyone to impose anything on anyone. If this is how I came across, then this has been a colossal misunderstanding. I am actually trying to be constructive, but I'm apparently coming across differently, which is a pity; making myself understood in this way is apparently something I am not very good at.
I opened a separate thread about this because I thought that the "open kettle" thread was for discussing the question of imagery on RFF on a broad scale, while this would be a collection of ideas and comments on a detail. The reason why I posted this in RFF Polls, as opposed to the Imagery Promo forum, is actually very simple; I thought this subforum was where I thought polls were supposed to go in general, and in fact I wasn't aware that it was possible to post a poll anywhere else. As evident from Marc-A's newer poll in the Imagery Promo forum, it's possible to have a poll there, so I guess I should just have tried, and I guess now some moderator reading it might just have moved it to where it was appropriate (instead of leaving it as it stands and telling me how arrogant I was about it). After your initial comment I would have suggested moving it myself, but I only have the opportunity and time to read RFF at irregular intervals here and came too late.
A concluding side note to Joe (and to some extent to Kim; I'm mainly quoting Joe here, because he is the one who brought it up and because most of the answer to Kim's elaboration is already contained above in this post here and I don't want to repeat myself too much):
is there not a certain arrogance in bringing up this subject time & again when the owner of the site has stated in the clearest of terms that it will not happen?)
But that's not what he said!! He said he won't change the forum software just to bring up one specific feature. That's perfectly understandable. I don't remember ever reading that Random Gallery Picks were out of the question in principle, just that there were technical problems with them as they were with the existing configuration of the forum software. On the contrary, if Stephen indeed was against Random Gallery Picks categorically, I think he would have said so somewhere, instead of just pointing out that there are limits to the changes possible in the existing forum. If there was an earlier categorical statement somewhere, I may well have missed it, as my overview of what goes on at RFF is certainly less complete than yours.
On a personal level, as you will have realized by now, I did not appreciate your rhetorical question implying in public that you considered this an act of arrogance. In fact, putting it bluntly, I got quite angry. Since we're talking in public now anyway, I don't think I'm contradicting myself when I suggest that I would have preferred you to send me a PM about it instead, so that I can tell you what this is all about and/or suggest a course of action what to do with my post (editing for the sake of clarity, removing, moving, whatever). Regarding your other post, I don't think I've called you a Nazi, either, so please don't vent your anger in the direction of user A when you are actually angry at user B. But since apparently I am more difficult to understand than I thought I was, and since you state that you are short tempered these days, which happens to the best of us, I guess we all should now just drop the whole matter of who called whom arrogant, a Nazi, or a bad moderator. For my part I consider this closed for good and done over with and I certainly won't pursue it any further than this. If anything, please let's continue this in private.
Regarding what to do with this thread here, as I don't think I can do either of the two, I suggest that one of the moderators reading close this poll here and/or move it to the appropriate subforum.
Philipp
greyhoundman
11-09-2007, 04:39
Previous attempt at returning front page random gallery.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42247
back alley
11-09-2007, 04:41
philipp, my apologies as well. i did not mean to say that it was you calling me names or questioning my competence.
as jan pointed out earlier, i probably have a more 'global' view of rff than most as i try to read as much of it as i can. stephen has said elsewhere that the random gallery will not be back because the site turns to molasses when it's in operation.
in the future, if i have a concern that involves you i will first make contact in private. i too need to be more aware of my words, arrogance is not all that strong of a word to me, especially when compared to how i was feeling, so i am a bit surprised at the reaction to it's use.
honest dialog is best and i appreciate your direct candor.
joe
I understand your feeling, Philipp. And as I said, I don't understand attacks against this thread ... especially the boycott thing ... I boycott evil regimes, not Philipp's thread, who is among others a gentleman and a man of knowledge. If one is not interested in the discussion, it's fine of course, but call for boycott is far to much IMO.
And to make it clear: I don't care there's an official "kettle". As long as we are civil, polite, constructive, we can talk freely ... Philipp's initiative seemed useful to me and to others; we were wrong about the possibility to bring the random gallery back - Errare humanum est - fine, a short note about that would have been more than enough.
Sorry, I had to say. Now, AFAIC, let's forget the whole thing and move on ...
My 2 cents,
Marc
It seems to me that a true wish for a bigger photo focus isn't quite there. IMO a certain kind of random photo gallery on the front page would be the most visible way to show such a photo orientation. But the suggestion alone gets torpedoed before it has a chance. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Sure, I can understand the load a true random gallery brings. Nobody is suggesting it should be the exact same (site crunching!) feature. The pick of the week by Jon Claremont is "random" enough for me and would make a nice feature on the site's front page instead of being a thread buried somewhere in the forums.
A link like Gabriel suggests could do too but it's not nearly as visible as having actual photos on the front page.
Gabriel M.A.
11-09-2007, 05:28
is there not a certain arrogance in bringing up this subject time & again when the owner of the site has stated in the clearest of terms that it will not happen?
This kind of attitude makes many people just take it like it is and not say anything.
I don't know how "arrogance" could be interchanged with "ignorance".
I am very arrogant about brain surgery. And how the Random Gallery is maintained. Very arrogant. I mean, ignorant.
Gabriel M.A.
11-09-2007, 05:30
Also, should we start thinking about those that create threads that bring up questions that have been brought up already, many times before, as arrogant? Wouldn't that just be plain...well...?
back alley
11-09-2007, 06:42
ok, so i apologize and then get dumped on.
shall i lie down so you can start kicking?
did you read my post gabriel?
joe
ClaremontPhoto
11-09-2007, 08:26
Also, how about a small prize - you know, maybe just a roll of film.
Nice idea but there's no winner in Gallery Picks.
Tuolumne
11-09-2007, 09:42
Nice idea but there's no winner in Gallery Picks.
Perhaps we could have readers vote on the one they like best and have that one be the "first among equals" to get the prize.
/T
Gabriel M.A.
11-09-2007, 09:46
ok, so i apologize and then get dumped on.
shall i lie down so you can start kicking?
did you read my post gabriel?
Sorry :bang:
I too can admit when I'm wrong. Alright.
Is "Kumbaya" getting old now? :o
back alley
11-09-2007, 10:31
Sorry :bang:
I too can admit when I'm wrong. Alright.
Is "Kumbaya" getting old now? :o
no worries.
joe
ClaremontPhoto
11-09-2007, 11:38
Yes, everybody is a winner.
keithwms
11-09-2007, 11:51
I like this idea. Instead of displaying the photo itself have a link to it from the part of the forum where we have special announcements, like the one that now says we are thinking about having more of a photographic focus. :)
Don't get me wrong... I really like the intent expressed here, but frankly I don't think making the pic(s) of the week a mere sticky will do anything to freshen the look of the front page, which is currently very texty, and again (sorry to keep repeating myself) the only visual content is in the form of ads and classifieds.
I propose making two pics of the week replace the two news items at the top. That can be the "prize." And the news items are basically static- I don't remember the last time they changed. Okay okay, compromise... at least one of the news item boxes could be an actual member image... please!
Hi Joe,
philipp, my apologies as well. [...]
Thanks. Fine with me. :)
Could you do this thread a favour and move it to the Imagery Promo forum?
I like Keith's idea of having two Pics of the Week instead of where the news items on the front page are now. News items sometimes don't change for weeks, so the value of having them there is limited anyway, and it would be a very prominent location.
Philipp
I love Gallery Picks. Always check it out on Mondays. Please don't stop, Jon. It's a nice distillation of a week's activity for those of us who may not check the Gallery every day. I also really like being reminded of good photos on this site.
Could you do this thread a favour and move it to the Imagery Promo forum?
Done as requested
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