View Full Version : Advice with R2400
I'm pretty close to buying an Epson 2400 ... I've spent hours reading reviews ... chasing decent prices etc and I'm ready to go. I don't want a wet darkroom at the moment for a few reasons but I do want to be able to produce high quality black and white prints sourced from film and scanning ... and maybe the odd colour print from my M8.
What media is going to look best for what I have in mind ... I will probably be using Ilford papers and there seems to be a few options ... I don't like gloss so count that out! Epson offer an optional matte black cartridge to replace the photo black depending on the choice of media you're using. What will be the ideal combination (cartridge and paper) for an exhibit quality black and white print? :)
whitecat
11-07-2007, 05:09
Try QuadTone RIP and Hahnemuhle Photo Rag and the matt cartridge will give you what you want. I had a darkroom for 20 yrs. I have never used the glossy ink in my 2400.
Keith DO NOT buy this printer, go directly to Epson 3800, if you count carefully the difference in inks you will get, it should cost about the same, but you will get a :
- better printer (it has updated nozzles and mechanics)
- possibility to print up to A2
- ink cartridges 4 times bigger with ENORMOUS savings on ink
- if I recall correctly, you don't have to toggle the matte and glossy carts when switching inks anymore.
I second the advice to try Hahnemuehle Photo Rag 308, BUT do try also the new Ilford Gallerie Gold Fiber Silk or the Harman Baryta- this is a baryta based fiber paper, VERY darn close to a darkroom print - even smells of fixer... AND costs exactly 1/2 as much as Photo Rag !!!
Take a look at this article:
http://www.outbackprint.com/papers/papers_004/essay.html
And,
look up this site,
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
before you commit to buying the QTR, I use the R2400 in ABW mode, and the results are great.
Whilke we're at it, what about the R1800? I'm dumb when it comes to printers, I don't even understand all the terms. I've purchased the R1800 blindly but don't really know what to expect...
Keith DO NOT buy this printer, go directly to Epson 3800, if you count carefully the difference in inks you will get, it should cost about the same,...
I agree. I started with an Epson 2100, then I had an R2400, and now I use a 3800. I wore the 2100 out. The R2400 was a mistake.
The 3800 is much the better printer and very much easier to use. You'll get bored swapping cartridges on the R2400 believe me. And if you don't print much, then you'll get bored throwing cartridges away which have only been used for cleaning cycles.
Which ever printer you go for, Quad Tone Rip is a safe bet. Imageprint is better but way more expensive.
Hahnemuhle PhotoRag or Natural Art are about as good as matte papers get, although the matte Crane and Moab papers are good if you find them easier to source. The Harman matte papers are good too, but they are very different.
Keith DO NOT buy this printer, go directly to Epson 3800, if you count carefully the difference in inks you will get, it should cost about the same, but you will get a :
- better printer (it has updated nozzles and mechanics)
- possibility to print up to A2
- ink cartridges 4 times bigger with ENORMOUS savings on ink
- if I recall correctly, you don't have to toggle the matte and glossy carts when switching inks anymore.
I second the advice to try Hahnemuehle Photo Rag 308, BUT do try also the new Ilford Gallerie Gold Fiber Silk or the Harman Baryta- this is a baryta based fiber paper, VERY darn close to a darkroom print - even smells of fixer... AND costs exactly 1/2 as much as Photo Rag !!!
Take a look at this article:
http://www.outbackprint.com/papers/papers_004/essay.html
And,
look up this site,
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
before you commit to buying the QTR, I use the R2400 in ABW mode, and the results are great.
I appreciate what you're saying about the 3800 but from where I see it it's main advantage is the ink capacity and A2 printing. It's $2000.00 here and a set of cartridges is $700.00 :eek: From the review I read it still does an ink dump when switching from photo to matte black and the reviewer thought the quality was similar or marginally better than the excellent 2400 which is under $1200.00 I'm not sure that I would need to print A2 and I can get a CIS remote feed kit for the 2400 with the same chromatic inks in 100ml tanks for around $600.00 which apparently cuts printing costs by 80% !
NB23 ... I have read that the R1800 actually does a better job of colour than the 2400 but not as good with black and white as it creates it's greys with colour mixing and does tend to give black and white prints a slight colour cast. :)
Check this review ... http://www.photo-i.co.uk/Reviews/interactive/Epson%20R1800/page_1.htm
Hmmm, Keith, all that CIS business is risky, as first of all you invalidate your warranty, second, you don't have any guarantee on longevity and finally, you have to buy a spectrophotometer to do your own paper profiling... ( a bout 2000USD, I think). As to the real ink cost, EACH time a SINGLE R2400 cartridge goes dry ( and this happens pretty often because the usage is different among the colours, so there's one going dry constantly), and you replace it, the printer makes a flush which pumps out about 5-7% of your total ink in EACH of the 8 cartridges, so on average, out of the 13ml R2400 cartridge, about 35-40% goes down the drain, and this, if you keep the printer turned on always ( like I do), because if you want to turn it off and on every time you print, you don't even get to 50% usage... A single cartridge costs more than 20 USD here, so you have about 3USD/ml effective cost. I believe I spend about 250-400 USD a month in inks - do your own math... My photo salesman told me he only knows of one liquid which costs more than the R2400 inks - the tears ! He was actually referring to the artificial tears necessary for contact lens users, haha...
Have you read this?
http://www.photo-i.co.uk/Reviews/printers/Epson%20Pro3800/page-10.html
There was a test posted on the Outback Photo site with analysis of the 2400's ink costs when you change a cartridge. I may be mis-remembering, but I think the total cost came to around US$5.
While we're posting reviews from the site mentioned above (there were links to the R1800 and R3800 reviews), check this link www.photo-i.co.uk/Reviews/interactive/Epson%20R2400/page-13.htm (http://www.photo-i.co.uk/Reviews/interactive/Epson%20R2400/page-13.htm) to a review on the same website. It's extrememly positive on the R2400.
I appreciate what you're saying about the 3800 but from where I see it it's main advantage is the ink capacity and A2 printing. It's $2000.00 here and a set of cartridges is $700.00 :eek: From the review I read it still does an ink dump when switching from photo to matte black and the reviewer thought the quality was similar or marginally better than the excellent 2400 which is under $1200.00 I'm not sure that I would need to print A2 and I can get a CIS remote feed kit for the 2400 with the same chromatic inks in 100ml tanks for around $600.00 which apparently cuts printing costs by 80% !
My experience of a CIS:
- it's a pain to set up
- the heads clog all the time
- you have to do your own profiles (or pay to have them done)
- it's a pain to maintain
The carts you get with the R2400 will be half used before you make your first print.
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