View Full Version : oh my god!
emraphoto
11-06-2007, 19:23
well here's the latest in my lost files saga. i also purchased a kaser 250gb hardrive (external) and pulled all the files off an older model imac. about 4-5 years woth of photo's. i transferred the entire hard drive to the external drive. sent the older imac home with the folks and plugged the kaser 250gb harddrive into our new 24" imac. checked it all out and everything was fine (i actually made sure the files were there the day i did it). fast forward 5 days and now for some reason my new kaser 250gb hard drive is empty except for a short cut to the new imac's hard drive and a random photo file containing new files (recent photo's):bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: !
i am obviously very, very concerned. i ran media recovery, software recover etc and both are showing an empty drive! i highlight the drive and scroll down to "get info" and it shows nothing on the drive!! full capacity basically (it HAD 40 gigs of photo's).
apparently during the day my wife was getting "you unplugged the device incorrectly" messages although she didn't do anything?!?!?!?
4 years of photo's !?!?!?!?!?:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
if any of you kind souls have any advice PLEASE let me know!!!
if it turns out i have lost everything i'd say digital has become a very questionable medium in my opinion
emraphoto
11-06-2007, 19:35
when i try and run mediarecovery the drive dissapears from the desktop and says "you didn't unplug the device properly blah blah blah" and "some files might be lost and/or corrupted".
when i quit mediarecovery it reappears?!?!?
wtf?
Very sorry to hear that John!
This is in reference to another recent thread: This kind of thing does not happen to film negs - they don't just disappear!
Perhaps a utility like Undelete would help?
http://www.undelete.com/undelete/home/undelete.asp?RId=1&SId=2&CId=1&Aeid=0&Apid=0
Wow, you are having some terrible luck this week! I really feel for you. In your position, I would be taking the hard drive in to a professional tech at this point. Good luck. I really hope that you are able to recover the files.
antiquark
11-06-2007, 19:50
Strange, a few days ago one of my coworkers was telling me about a virtually identical problem he was having. Some possibilities:
- Try powering off and on the computer with the harddrive connected. Ie, first plug in the harddrive, then power up the computer.
- Take the harddrive to another computer, like a PC or Linux box, and see if the contents are visible.
- If you're eager for some technical trickery, you can remove the HD from its case and mount it internally in your computer. (as far as I know.)
It seems to be a common problem with USB drives. Usually it's a problem with the USB interface, not the data integrity on the harddrive itself.
Hope that helps.
emraphoto
11-06-2007, 19:54
i think the usb drive is the issue as it seems to be causing all kinds of trouble... i will most certainly take it to a recovery place but what REALLY concerns me is when i single click on the external drive and scroll to "get info" it shows only 1 gig of info used on the drivewhich is the size of the random folder that just appeared on the drive?
i am deeply concerned that there is no info to recover!
emraphoto
11-06-2007, 20:04
you're right frank, and i swear if i can't recover these files a/ someone is gonna get sued and b/ i will never shoot digital again!
foto_fool
11-06-2007, 20:28
Unless the drive has been overwritten the data are still there. I'm not so mac-savvy these days, but check to see if you are running the same version of the OS on the new machine that you were on the old. If the versions are different there could be USB driver issues.
If the folks are nearby you might try to plug the box into the old machine. If the files are still not visible, send the box in to a drive recovery service - spendy but worth it for 4 years of photos.
BTW - if you put 40 GB of files on the drive you might have confused the drive and the mac - the format limit is 32 GB per partition. I'm not sure how this would manifest.
Buy a DVD burner and put your photos on something more reliable.
- John
emraphoto
11-06-2007, 20:54
i thought the whole point of a 250gig hard drive was A/ it could hold 250 gigs of info and B/ they were reliable?!?!?
the reply i got from the tech support for the drive was nothing short of shameful!
they said basically that i "only created a short cut" and " i bet the transfer was fast". that's it?!?!?
whereas i CLEARLY stated in the original email that it took over an hour and that i had actually checked on the new computer that everything was running fine and the files were there!
i really am concerned as when i retrieve info re: the external drive in question it says there's no info stored on the drive?! it also "created" a short cut to my new imacs hard drive seemingly on it's own!?!?! i do have a dvd burner and i was just in the process of organizing everything and burning etc.
as well i have had loads of strange goings on over the last 2 days as a result of my new "usb hub"...
i never buy gear from the big box stores but this time i did... they assured me there was no problem with the hub and it would function with osx no problem. it's been NOTHING BUT A PROBLEM!!! and it serves me right for trusting the opinion of an underpaid, clueless teenager.
the old machine is on the otherside of the continent and i am in the process of trying to get ahold of the new owners to have them search the machine and see if the files remain. as well i'll try and have them take it into a data recovery place out there!
man, neg's and slides are looking real interesting again!
I have a document I have written on the viability of digital where changes in technology affect image quality. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that these storage problems will have a serious impact on original image storage where transition to newer (and rapidly changing) technologies are concerned. I actually believe that if you acquire the images digitally, for archival purposes, you need to output them to film and use safe and unchangine archival methods. We may find in ten years that we can't find the equipment to open files from this time. The drives won't exist. File formats will have changed. If you understand what I am saying here, you may well ask..."Then why don't I shoot them on film in the first place, and then scan them for the digital marketplace?".... And I am telling you that may be a very reasonable question. Digital storage won't stay static, and there is an inherent signal to noise proble with digital electronics as these files are saved in these evolving formats.
Anyone who wants a copy of the document I have written will receive it if they email me at larsco2002@yahoo.com
I'd be interested in feedback and or refute on my thoughts before continuing on with the disbursal of it.
By the way, the purpose I have written this all up is exactly the reasons that everybody on this post and your last post. I believe the computer industry has WAY oversold the viability of USB for storage. I have seen destroyed hard drives, flash and thumb drives and memory cards for cameras. The two common sources of difficulty come down to powered hubs and not disengaging USB storage devices using the tray item in the system tray to shut off power to the external device.
I have a question. It is implied that the message your wife is getting about not disengaging the drive properly that the USB is not functioning properly in the machine. Are you still using that powered hub... I think you said you got one. Get rid of it. I also agree with the person who said to pull the drive from the case and install it in the computer on a more conventional interface. But then, the question comes up whether the new drive is SATA vs. IDE, and whether your computer has SATA or will need a SATA expansion card.
It's possible the internal interface will show up your images, if they got on the drive in the first place. USB seems to be causing a lot of problems so far as data transfer is concerned on really fast drives. For instance, if the new drive is a 7200 RPM spindle speed, it simply may not work with the achingly slow USB 2.0 interface.
Good luck, and if you want to email me, the email addy above is working.
the reply i got from the tech support for the drive was nothing short of shameful!
they said basically that i "only created a short cut" and " i bet the transfer was fast". that's it?!?!?
whereas i CLEARLY stated in the original email that it took over an hour and that i had actually checked on the new computer that everything was running fine and the files were there!
it also "created" a short cut to my new imacs hard drive seemingly on it's own!?!?!
That last line pretty well says it all. I hate to say it, but I agree with tech support.
emraphoto
11-07-2007, 05:13
i will certainly email you my friend. this has been a very painful week for me and yesterdays events cannot occur again. now i need to decide if i can ever trust the digital medium again!
i am going to take the drive to a media recovery specialist (my best friends wife times scripts for the movies so they have a very good contact). i'm also trying to have the old machine taken to someone as well... BUT the question remians for me. do i, can i EVER trust the digital process again. i am seriously considerning a return to film for the very reasons you have outlined.
Try Alsoft Diskwarrior. I''ve used it for years, it's been used by Apple technicians too.
It's the only that can save your butt. If not, files are lost...
(I know that it's too late but, for the future: 2 copies of everything...)
fdigital
11-07-2007, 05:36
This is the reason why I still shoot film for all my personal stuff. I know that in 20 years time I'll still have the real, material negatives in my hand. A digital file is not a physical thing you can hold or keep safe.
I'm sorry for your file loss
This is why if your pics are digital, they should be saved on several types of different media - on your computer, dvd, cd & / or external hard drive. You never know which one is going to fail.
I had all my old digital files go poof when I had them stored on an external firewire drive after I got a new iMac. Then I was using the external drive between an OS9 machine and my new OSX iMac, and had disconnected it without ejecting it off the desktop first, then got an irrecoverable error and had to re-format the drive. I had given my old iMac to my Dad and all my old files were still on it, so I recovered them.
Hey,
Very sorry to hear about your problems.
I Actually use two firewire drives and back up on a weekly basis. I use an application called SuperDuper, it makes a carbon copy of my internal hard drive on a delta basis (it takes about 6 mins to run). I have to admit I'd also set up a process to back up within Aperture to a DVD and then never ran it .. maybe its time to put it in place as well. I know I'm paranoid, but unfortunatelly accidents do happen, regardless of the media, and I try to keep one step ahead.
I once dropped my iBook and killed it, I was able to make a complete restore - magic.
I hope you are able to recover the data, and please set up a parallel back-up.
There is a convenience with digital which allows me to experiement more freely than using film and I don't want to give it up.
Good luck,
Phil.
Do not play with it. Bring it to a professional for recovery.
Sounds like most data are still there and recoverable.
Roland.
Yeah, I learned the hard way that "backup" means having more than one copy of your files. If I was a digital camera person I'd use a RAID drive, or maybe put all my files on at least two drives, then back them up somehow too.
Have you thought about using a raid array?
This lets you use several combined hard drives as if it was a single one, but in case a hard drive fails, the data is still on the redundant drives.
For instance you could combine 5 (or less, or more) hdd of 500GB each, which would look like you only have 1 500GB hdd. Though all your hard drives will be synchronized together and have the same data on. In case of a failure, your data will still be there, as long as 1 of the drives is running of course.
Jarle Aasland
11-07-2007, 06:51
Sorry to hear about your problems. Hope you can recover your lost files.
That being said, I really can't understand why people don't back up their important files. Four years of work, and no backup? That's really asking for trouble.
In addition to external hard drives (Western Digital being my favourite brand), I burn my photos to DVD's *and* store them online (using one of the many web based services that offer offsite backup). Even if my house burns down, I'll have my photos safely stored elsewhere. Can't say the same about my slides and negatives. Something to think about..
Here's an article from NYT which you may find useful:
Fewer Excuses For Not Doing A PC Backup (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE1D71730F937A35752C0A9619C8B 63&sec=&spon=&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink)
Jarle
emraphoto
11-07-2007, 07:01
i was IN THE PROCESS of moving and backing up the files... i certainly am all about embracing new technology but this is a lesson i cannot ignore. there is NO HARD COPY of the files. that is not an acceptable situation to me. one week ago i was willing to embrace migrating files and keeping things up to date. i would have been willing to own and maintain multiple drives... not now. period. i will certainly scan slides and negs and continue to work with cs etc but it will be a frosty day in... well you know where, before i trust digital storage again. losing all my files from 4-5 years of shooting doesn't qualify as "hysteria" for me. losing sleep over it "possibly" happening, perhaps... having it actually happen? that's a very concrete and very serious problem. to have such little trust in the process that i have to run MULTIPLE storage options is not something i am willing to do. so far the tech folks i have spoken with are pointing the finger at the ac powered usb hub... since i have removed it from the fray everything once again seems stable. however in the process it managed to destroy an sd card, a full weekend worth of shooting AND quite possibly 4-5 years worth of work.
sure mistakes were made on my end by not having MULTIPLE back-ups but no matter what is said about the viability of digital capture and storage IT IS NOT viable for long term storage in my CURRENT opinion!
This is why if your pics are digital, they should be saved on several types of different media - on your computer, dvd, cd & / or external hard drive. You never know which one is going to fail.
Furthermore, in ten years time, you are not going to know which creation device still exists for you to read the ten year old media. With the exception of hard drives, other media has all changed so rapidly that it's becoming difficult to find a drive to read the media created just ten years ago. This will happen also with hard drive technology, I am sure. But, I am rapidly becoming convinced that the USB interface is already weakening in viability for storage purposes.
Jarle Aasland
11-07-2007, 07:23
perhaps you have some useable information or hints for recovery as per the original post rather than underlining what i have already been so painfully made aware...
It's not clear to me what you've tried so far, but a Google search for "mac file recovery" (and similar terms) will list several different recovery tools and services. Any serious Apple dealer should also be able to help.
Good luck.
Jarle
emraphoto
11-07-2007, 07:35
thanx jarle... as mentioned i have tried numerous recovery programs but it's out the door to the shop right now.
kuzano-you are talking some serious logic and i for one am not sure i want to spend all that time migrating files from media to media. i most certainly do NOT trust the usb interface at this point.
Can you tell the type of filesystem your computer is using? Or at least that particular drive?
Tuolumne
11-07-2007, 08:28
Isn't it amazing how all threds end up in the same place? I think it's a sign to take more pictures, do more work, read and post less... :eek:
/T
shadowfox
11-07-2007, 08:59
John, a decent filesystem doesn't just wipe out the whole HD with zeroes (which will take a while) unless told to do so, explicitly. So most likely the data is still in there. Hopefully you can find someone well versed in data recovery. I've seen data recovered from smashed HD plates. Don't lose hope yet.
I remember seeing some survey which indicated only a very small number of people do back-up on a regular basis - like les than 2% (I wish I could remember the link). Lets all learn from this .. Unfortunately tomorrow is too late .. back up today.
For you film folks .. then I guess scanning is a back-up .. but nothing is safe. Over all my house moves over the years at one stage I lost all my negs, I have a box of slides maybe 10% and a few positives. Think about your own situation and don’t be too prudent .. if there is the smallest chance it will happen .. then it is more likely it will happen .. that’s what I find.
Tuolumne
11-07-2007, 11:09
HP just announced a $750 home media server that comes with a RAID array. This would be a good opportunity to buy one for those of you really concerned with a minimal risk digital archival solution.
http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/447351-0-0-225-121.html
/T
HP just announced a $750 home media server that comes with a RAID array. This would be a good opportunity to buy one for those of you really concerned with a minimal risk digital archival solution.
http://h71036.www7.hp.com/hho/cache/447351-0-0-225-121.html
/T
Guys this is overkill. Most companies these days have some old servers that they can't even give away because no one wants them. A company gave me a compaq proliant a while ago, the thing had a RAID controller w/ array, tape drive, scsi etc...
If you like to spend so much money on hardware that will eventually cost peanuts go for it. The other way around is to use a basic PC, a pentium 2 or 3, buy a low cost scsi controller for it ($20 on ebay), and some large scsi hdd, no need for a RAID controller. Then you install a GNU/Linux distribution of your choice on this and setup a software RAID within the kernel and there you've got your automatic backup for less than $100. Software RAID is even more flexible than hardware RAID since you can mix different types of hard drives and use different levels of RAID without the need for a controller.
Look there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID
kuzano: "the loss of image quality it is going to take to stay up with archiving work" means what, exactly? Are you claiming that the digital image files will suffer from some form of bit rot? Also, show us some image formats from ten years ago that can't be read today. With the millions (billions?) of GIFs and JPEGs around today I doubt that format will vanish overnight. The usual example is Apple's .PICT format, which people bandy around as a lost one, though my copy of Photoshop CS2 appears to open those files just fine.
As for RAID, do keep in mind that it's intended to protect against hardware failures. You do something (or your computer does something) to wipe out your files, your RAID array will faithfully ensure that the wiping out is painstakingly replicated across your 'redundant' array.
I just use a couple of inexpensive USB drives (I think I paid $60 for a 300 gig external USB drive last) that I back up to once a week. Chances of both my PC _and_ the two external drives failing are pretty slim.
Tuolumne
11-07-2007, 12:40
Guys this is overkill. Most companies these days have some old servers that they can't even give away because no one wants them. A company gave me a compaq proliant a while ago, the thing had a RAID controller w/ array, tape drive, scsi etc...
If you like to spend so much money on hardware that will eventually cost peanuts go for it. The other way around is to use a basic PC, a pentium 2 or 3, buy a low cost scsi controller for it ($20 on ebay), and some large scsi hdd, no need for a RAID controller. Then you install a GNU/Linux distribution of your choice on this and setup a software RAID within the kernel and there you've got your automatic backup for less than $100. Software RAID is even more flexible than hardware RAID since you can mix different types of hard drives and use different levels of RAID without the need for a controller.
Look there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID
We're talking about people who don't even back-up their precious photos and you want them to go out and assemble a server from parts? Not very likely. If $750 is too much for you to protect a life time of digital photos, you deserve to loose them. Or stick to a shoe box of negatives in the basement. That will work until the next flood anyway.
/T
We're talking about people who don't even back-up their precious photos and you want them to go out and assemble a server from parts? Not very likely. If $750 is too much for you to protect a life time of digital photos, you deserve to loose them. Or stick to a shoe box of negatives in the basement. That will work until the next flood anyway.
/T
Yeah and we're also talking about people who call themselves photographers because they use film and develop themselves, those guys in turn like look down and give pet names to people who like to shoot digital, The former one also compare this whole thing to someone who likes to buy coffee grains and grind the coffee themselves against another one who likes instant coffee.
Basically this is a useful and easy way of saving money and to understand how certain things work so we can get the most out of them, but most importantly to make sure that we don't loose 10 years of digital photography.
I commiserate with your experience. Please let us know what happened in the end? Did you recover any of your photos?
I want to tell you and the rest of the readers about a relatively cheap and easy backup solution, the Drobo. The Drobo allows you to insert up to 4 hard drives (any size) and mirrors the content across the drives. Basically a single drive can fail and the Drobo will automatically re-mirror the content across the remaining drives (telling you if there is not enough space or drives to do so). At any point in time you will have two copies of your data on two separate drives and the total storage space available to you for your files is approx. 60% of total hard drive space.
http://www.drobo.com/products_reviews.aspx
I don't sell these units or own shares in the company :) I just think it is a very easy to use system and, unlike RAID, does not required you to purchase identical drives (this can be a pain especially when drives obsolete/unavailable).
John,
I have a 1 Tb external hard drive that I connect to my mac. My Aperture and iPhoto libraries are on that drive. I also have other folders of photos on that drive as well.
There was a day or two last month when I thought I had lost everything. Like you, I only saw only an image of the drive on the desktop and it appeared empty. Naturally, I was very depressed. Then a couple of days later, it booted fine and everything was there.
I never figured out exactly what the problem was but my experience suggests that your drive might be just fine.
Reboot your computer and then plug the drive in again. If that doesn't work, try another mac.
I am willing to bet that all is well.
Keep the faith and don't give up.
Eric
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