Leica M3 experiences

[Rich Silfver]

Never having been a Leica-nut at all I yesterday got an offer to buy a very nice looking Single Stroke Leica M3 (990,000+ serial number). Body only though.

I played around with it and it really looked as new and felt - I hate to admit - extremely solid and just...hmm...'good' in my hands.

Also - since I don't really shoot wider than 50 (I'd get a 90) the viewfinder on the M3 would be a good 'fit' from that perspective.

Does anyone here have any experience USING this camera?
(I would use it and not have it on a shelf).
The film loading looked like a pain and is honestly part of why I am being hesitant.

Well I have until next weekend to make up my mind.

It had just been CLA'd and with a warranty out to 2005 sometime.
Price is 600 dollars.

[back alley]

no first hand experience with the m3, though i did have an m4p for a couple of years.
some consider the m3 the 'best' leica ever.
leicas are nice, no doubt, but i too disliked the film loading - never seemed to have enough hands at the ready.
but that is a very good price for a recently cla'd camera that feels like new.
you could always sell it for a profit if you find it not to your taste.

there is something about owning a 'thing' that you know has history and has the potential to continue it's history long after we are gone, that i find appealing.

joe

[SolaresLarrave]

If the camera was recently CLA'ed, $600 is a very fair price.

Sure, the film loading is a bit of a pain, but then, think of the rewards you get from using a solid piece of craftsmanship like this camera.

I see it's a single-stroke. Does it have its corresponding film spool? Did they check the shutterspeeds? How about the RF mirror? Those would be my only concerns.

Now, check your PMs in this forum.

[Doug]

Agree with Joe... I've had an M2 for 35 years. Film loading takes some experience to come up with the method that works best for you. I read a thread recently where this came up, and the respondent said, in effect, "no sweat, you just slide the leader into the slot on the takeup spool and shove it all into the bottom of the camera, take up the tension and you're done!"

That's not the way I do it, but then very early on I added the "quick load" kit to my M2 which I guess makes it more like an M4. And it is pretty quick and easy. :-)

By the way, that sounds like an outstanding deal for you on that M3! And if you should develop an interest in a 35mm lens, there are plenty of the version with "goggles" made for the M3.

[Rich Silfver]

Does all the M3, M2 and M4's require you to load film the same way? What model did that change on - and did it change to a way that is significantly better?

Then again, I don't really blow a lot of film - I can have the same roll in the camera for a month before it's used up...so maybe it's less of an issues. Oh gosh...I dunno...

The film-rewind seemed a little cumbersome as well. BUT I must say that every little gear and mechanism just oozed with quality and silky smooth movements. Wow, that's some craftmanship that went into those cameras. And the thing is SNUG - no jiggling around of anything there. Impressive piece of metal.

Hm..

[SolaresLarrave]

Film loading changed just a little tiny bit with the advent of the M4, when they also tilted and reshaped the rewind knob and turned it into a small crank.

The invaluability of the M3 is its solid built. That camera's survival has been guaranteed for some twenty years with the recent CLA it got.

I wish I were in your shoes. One of my Leica bodies is hurting... and hurting me in the process...

[strangedoctor]

I bought a very overpriced, VERY cosmetically damaged M3 in 1996 for $450. Yours sounds like a good deal. It's a great piece of machinery. At first I though I wouldn't use wider than 50mm, but later I did so I bought a separate finder.
Loading film is a bit of a pain, but it's only irksome if you need to change very quickly (more than in a minute.) and have only one free hand. I think you can get a rewind "crank" that attaches to the rewind knob to speed that up.

[Rich Silfver]

Doc, I don't really go through a lot of film. I stopped that when I moved away from my auto-everything SLR a few years ago (good riddens!).

What is attracting me to the Leica is honestly the look and feel. It's not going to make me a better photographer (no I don't buy the overhyper Leica Legend stuff) but it's undoubtedly a wonderful camera that would be fun to own. (When I want ultimate tonal range and details any MF camera for 200 bucks is still going to run circles around any Leica 35mm negative but there are times when that is simply not practical to use - so I'm aware of the limitations but also the opportunities).

Got another 4-5 days to decide.

[Doug]

When you get "the best", at least then there can be no excuses about the equipment! In other words, your results are not limited by the quality of the gear, but rather by your own ability. So, while buying better gear doesn't automatically make one a better photographer, it does remove gear-quality-related limitations.

And I think the knowledge of using "the best" gives the user something to live up to, adding one more incentive to improve. I cannot say that this has been a factor for me with my M2, since I believe the quality of my other gear is also well above my ability! :-) But I certainly have experienced that sense of "living up to" my BMW, striving to acquit myself appropriately on the road!

[jmsfoto]

The M3 was my 2nd Leica body, I picked up a beater and had Sherry Krauter CLA it , added cameraleather.com cover to replace the almost non existant vulcanite and it's awesome now...film loading? i honestly have never had a problem with it, just takes a minute longer than say M6 after a little practice. Camera feels solid and comfortable. I have often thought of selling it 5 Leicas is too many I fear, But I can't bring myself to part with it.

[Brian Sweeney]

Get it.
I "rotate" through the Leica M3, Nikon S3, Canon 7, and Retina IIIS on a regular basis. The M3 has the best-defined VF/RF and is the easiest to focus of all of them. You can use screw-mount lenses with the LTM 39mm-> Leica M adapters; $30~$50 each. I use a 9cm F4 Uncoated Elmar on mine for great results.
At $600 with CLA and warranty, you cannot go wrong.

FILM LOADING: I bought a second take up spool and "pre-load" it, and keep the pair in the case. Open up, drop out the old, put in the new, off you go. And the bottom fits easily in a shirt pocket while you juggle.

[strangedoctor]

I think what I always loved about my M3 was that it felt like a gun or a brick in my hand. And when I was traveling it was like a protective weapon. How many cameras can smash someone's head in?

[back alley]

ouch!

[dll927]

My Leica, an M4-2, is a little newer than the M-3, but it's a fine machine.

To paraphrase what Steve Gandy says on his website, it was the screw-mount Leicas that were really a "bitch" to load. But basically, the most recent ones around still follow the old 'take off the bottom' method of loading. The M series does have the advantage of the 'back door', however.

It seems to me that Leica prices on e-bay go all over the map, even for the same model, and it's true for both screw-mounts and Ms. You have to follow them a while to see what amounts to a "good" price.

[ZeissFan]

"How many cameras can smash someone's head in?"

Hmm, the Voigtlander Prominent, possibly. And definitely the Contaflex TLR and the Contarex. You probably could use either camera to stop a bullet if necessary.

I have a prewar 85mm Sonnar that is unbelievably heavy.

[SolaresLarrave]

And at the end, Richard... did you buy it? Inquiring minds... :p

[Rich Silfver]

I didn't.... Money is having to go to our wonderful friends at the IRS this year....

[rover]

You have to start thinking deductions Richard!!!

[jdos2]

I just got one. It's got to go to she shop for a CLA. 1/1000 severely shades.

Nice rangefinder, though.

[SolaresLarrave]

Sorry to hear that, Richard... It was a dream of a kit. Maybe next time! Keep your eyes peeled for real eBay bargains towards the end of the year too! ;)

[taffer]

And also it seems the Canon 7 is not going to visit Spain after all... :( once you add UPS shipping charges and possible custom taxes, the whole thing goes for too much... Also, the credit card verification takes a lot of trouble for overseas, and fees for a money order of that amount are also pretty high...

Hey, I never had such difficulties with *bay :P

But hey, nothing is lost. After all these frustrated attempts to spend "big" bucks, I'm starting to appreciate a lot more my bottom-feeding collection :)

If some of you are interested, the KEH Exc Canon 7 with non-working meter will be available again on their website for $265...

Meanwhile, I'll continue using my ruskies and my fixed lens RFs... this week is turn (again) for the SPn, which provided me with things like this one (yes, it's possibly the MOST strange bait I've ever seen...)

Oscar

[SolaresLarrave]

Visually stunning, Oscar! Neat job and nice way to do the trick of making a person taller than a building. I've tried this before and never managed to get it. With your permission, I'll try to "quote" you sometime. :)

[taffer]

Please Francisco, feel free to use and enjoy my ideas whenever you want :)

As for the picture... well, I spent a couple of minutes looking for an interesting composition, and found the whole thing simply too empty. But with the help of my always patient friend, and finally by lying in the ground (literally) I ended with this pic :D

No, I don't use to wear suits, but I guess I'd finish laying in the ground if necessary anyway ;)

[Rich Silfver]

Jo, after this thread it just so happened that I got the M3 and you got the Canon 7.

Guess all is well that ends well :)

(Neeeed to send my M3 off to her first CLA ever soon. She's 40 years old this year and the old girl deserves a cleaning) ;)

[Brian Sweeney]

My M3 took 2 weeks, including Priority Mail up and UPS back, to have the finder repaired, dragging shutter done, and general CLA.

The "NEW" M2 will be going up soon; the geared rewind shaft does slip. On the bright side, it is a strong "9" and from the first regular production batch. Apparently, Leica made 200 cameras in 1957 and an order for 2,000 in '58. It could be an "Irish Twin" of my '57 M3-DS. The finder is perfect, vulcanite is perfect, and the top never saw a meter.

Francisco, does this mean I have to take the "EYES" off of the Summaron? It looks so "distinct" with them. Maybe I could find a 135 with eyes for the M2.

[taffer]

Originally posted by Rich Silfver
Jo, after this thread it just so happened that I got the M3 and you got the Canon 7.

Guess all is well that ends well :)

(Neeeed to send my M3 off to her first CLA ever soon. She's 40 years old this year and the old girl deserves a cleaning) ;)

True Richard ! And seems we're both really happy with our respective choices :) However, my 7 took near 6 weeks to arrive as it was returned and had to be sent again. But... all is well if ends well :D

Problems? A capping 1/1000 shutter speed and a RIP Selenium meter which I don't mind, some brightmarks from the strap O-rings, a dent near the PC synch, apart from that, no difference with the 600 EUR one from my local store, works and looks really well.

Let us know how things end with your new M2 Brian, looked like a very nice one !

@Brian: Do you mean the Summaron 35 with googles ? I think I read somewhere that it won't focus properly without the googles... or is it goggles ?

[Brian Sweeney]

The "goggles" or "Eyes" change the field of view of the finder and RF so that the 50mm frame lines will cover the FOV of the 35mm. As the M2 already has the 35mm frame lines, it should not matter. The distance to the film plane does not change. It may not key the 35mm framelines on the M2, I would have to check. In any event, I am not going to do it. "Professor M3" would be most upset. And it is mint.

[SolaresLarrave]

Brian, I'd say you can remove them, but since the Summaron was made for the M3 (at least on principle), I don't know if it would bring out the 35mm framelines. It should, though... although I've seen goggled Leicas and they kinda have an intellectual look about them. :p

[Doug]

Brian, I believe you're correct that the Summaron with eyes will bring up the 50mm framelines, then magnify them to look just like 35mm framelines. :-) So indeed the lens works as well on the M2 as on the M3. In theory, as I have a button-rewind M2 as well but have never tried that lens on it.

But from what I've read, the optical trickery of the "eyes" is matched by a different cut on the lens's RF cam. So taking the eyes/goggles off results in only half the trick remaining, and inaccurate focus.

[jdos2]

Erwin also remarks that the eyes did HORRIBLE things to distortion in the VF.

Oscar: Googles works for me, though I'm smiling as I type this...